Is GT6 too easy?
- Thread starter Alain Prost Fan
- 424 comments
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- 134
You could accomplish much the same thing just by making the gaps between Bronze and Gold much bigger. Those "great" drivers that must gold everything would have to work very hard to gold the event but the more casual player could still advance by getting bronze.
@OP I have run a base PP car in most of the license races and have found it to be challenging to get gold in some of them. If you run a max PP car in them then of course they are way too easy. PD has put in a makeshift difficulty slider by allowing you to take cars that are significantly more powerful than your competition which in effect becomes an "easy" setting. Like others have said, if you want a challenge then run harder tires or a lower PP. Challenge yourself.
- 1,722
- Sydney
- snakebacon97
Y'know, second is a pretty nice gear for Tsukuba, I'm not very surprised.
The latest seasonals are pretty easy Mr Scirocco, but keep in mind they are holiday seasonals that were put in place to give everyone a chance to win 12 million Credits to buy whatever they like.
- 125
- Bath
- Richiehill1988
Competing against other people isn't "the game" it's other peoples ability to manipulate the games physics.
- 1,722
- Sydney
- snakebacon97
Now that's an unusual way to look at things. I understand, you want the AI to pose a human-like challenge with human-like intelligence (but not too human-like because then it would be a human, and you don't seem to like those) and have you racing on the edge of your seat all the time.
But the truth is, your opponent is an algorithm, programmed by 2 people to manipulate the games physics without falling off the track and catering to the needs of the millions of people who will play the game.
- 134
- NIBZY
Maybe some of you are just hardcore highly skilled racers? Besides Novice and National B, I haven't found the game too easy. But I'm not as well versed in many of these tracks as many on here, and do play with all HUD options, Driving Line, Assists etc off, and honestly it's been quite challenging. Even National A, the Karting and X2014 Junior challenges, Mario Andretti Seasonal etc. Had some tough races and challenges.
But I have made it a habit not to use cars that push the boundaries of PP. For example, if it's 550PP allowance, sometimes I'll stick with 500 or 450+ etc. It's at the point where the AI cars are faster than me in a straight line, and I have to make up time in corners.
I think GT is one of those games where the level of challenge is largely dictated by the player himself. You can make it easy, but equally you can also make it pretty challenging.
But I have made it a habit not to use cars that push the boundaries of PP. For example, if it's 550PP allowance, sometimes I'll stick with 500 or 450+ etc. It's at the point where the AI cars are faster than me in a straight line, and I have to make up time in corners.
I think GT is one of those games where the level of challenge is largely dictated by the player himself. You can make it easy, but equally you can also make it pretty challenging.
- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
As opposed to the game's ability to manipulate it's own physics?
- 125
- Bath
- Richiehill1988
I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is that the game itself shouldn't have to rely on it's multiplayer to offer a challenge.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
But the races for the most part are only two to four laps long.
I should probly clarify my position a bit, because in board debates it becomes a bit too black n white oftentimes. I do agree that the bot skills are too broad, from brain dead trailers to rabbits. And that the rabbits run out of steam too much in the last lap or so. The cars do have to spread out over the field though, or all you end up with is a frustrating traffic jam where you only advance two or three places, if that, or bash your way through the field, and that's just going to anger everyone. Let me add to this that I quit qualifying in GT3 because pole position makes the race truly boring. Nothing more than a time trial with cars somewhere behind me. I really like the fight of making my way through a field of cars. But the fields in GT6 do spread out way too much, especially when the difference between first and last can be more than a minute and a half.
Since SONY gave PD a system with online capability, they have been able to adjust Gran Turismo for us. Testing a game with a handful of fairly skilled players isn't going to give you the same input when the whole gaming community gets its hands on it. PD is watching boards like ours for feedback, and probably collecting game data on how many events are beaten, how easily, restarted, or outright quit unfinished.
This game is going to be tweaked too. Hopefully the bots will be tightened up a bit. Cars more appropriate to some races replacing oddball misfits. GT5 had bot behavior tweaked also, some forget or hadn't experienced. We're going to get some user creation tools, and an Event Maker is likely, because there is no other way for users to make their own online championships and leagues without one. Maybe we'll get that Hardcore Mode they brought up.
GT6 is a platform made for expansion, and they do listen to us, so keep demanding things. We get some of them.
- 125
- Bath
- Richiehill1988
Yeah in game they are, what races have you ever seen or been a part of that are only two to four laps long in real life? Out of those that you have seen how many of them have you seen one car (first position) start at the back of the grid then end up over 10 seconds ahead by lap 4? I'd wager none. Because it's just not realistic.
Completely agree with everything you've just said. However in the qualifying, if the AI was harder and faster, you probably wouldn't pole every time, you could start 3rd or 4th, but then still have the realism of having to do proper overtaking or on longer races, look after your tyres and fuel better etc.
The game is by no means rubbish. I absolutely love it. I just wish that the AI was not so easy and linear and some of the trophies harder to earn - especially in the late game.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
This is true. I would enjoy that, without having to fuss with making a guess as to which car will give me the most challenge, but a reasonable chance of a first place finish. And everyone is asking for something like this as an option. Maybe Hardcore Mode will be its own entire section, not a level of difficulty. I'd love to see that. This could happen. It would fit within Kaz's vision of putting us in a virtual race or series, and a taste of that adrenaline rush he feels, without excluding anyone.
There's another thing I meant to bring up, something I thought about last night but forgot. Perception is just too subjective. It has been mentioned a number of times in this thread, but it clearly needs to be repeated. One man's hard is another man's easy. There is no objective measure of this whatsoever. Just take the few times someone mentioned that granny could gold these License Tests. Not any granny I've ever met.
And yes, the remarks are meant to be a bit sarcastic, but the way they were couched is frankly absurd. The ONLY way these License Tests can be judged to be easy is to insist that the majority of gamers can accomplish them within a few tries or first time, and I don't believe that at all. I'm sure eventual stat releases will bear that out.You guys have to remember that most of you are, to one degree or another, masters of this craft of virtual racing. In the GT Academy trials, I was within the top 10% of those trying, and about a million people around the globe gave it a shot. I might have been six or eight percent, but let's just leave it there. That means I was better than roughly 900,000 other gamers. And this is roughly 10 or 15% of the GT fanbase at the time. I can't recall any times, but the margin to my recollection from top to bottom was around thirty seconds. Let's say the fastest lap was 1:30, worst was 2:00. Considering that not every GT gamer tried it, where would you draw the Easy line? 1:45?
If you think so, keep this in mind. You may have just failed 95% of all those who bought the game. Would that be a fair License Test?
This is what Polyphony has to deal with in designing a game. And this is probably why game companies aren't hunting you guys down for advice.
To me, Gran Turismo is kind of like winning the lottery, especially GT6. It isn't overly dry and clinical, and cars don't seem like loaners to me as they are in PC sims. The bots may be aggravating, but they don't try to kill me like they sometimes do in Forza. Thanks to the Login Bonus and new Seasonals, I generally have lots of money. I can conceivably own, virtually, every car in the game and feel like it's mine. And even though it can be easy, it can also be as hard as I want to make it, thanks to the insanely diverse car list and nice mod options. I can and have lost races, and enjoyed it! And this is just the core game. Added goodies are coming.
Things will change. This will likely be Gran Turismo's finest, most fun year ever.
- 63
- Leigh, Lancs
- LFCNik
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the difficulty level is purely up to the driver and which car he/she chooses.
For example, I have been struggling with the first S class race at Willow Springs, tried a variety of different cars but nothing out of the reach of the opposition and I just could not win, best I got was 4th.
Then I thought I'd give the Rocket car a try and I won by well over a lap and it was one of the easiest races I'd had.
It's all in the car you choose, if the game is too easy try a different car until you get the right challenge.
For example, I have been struggling with the first S class race at Willow Springs, tried a variety of different cars but nothing out of the reach of the opposition and I just could not win, best I got was 4th.
Then I thought I'd give the Rocket car a try and I won by well over a lap and it was one of the easiest races I'd had.
It's all in the car you choose, if the game is too easy try a different car until you get the right challenge.
- 125
- Bath
- Richiehill1988
You're right it is but, and I've said this before and I'll say it again, if you're in an Evo X against other Evo X's you shouldn't be able to finish over 10 seconds ahead in a 4 lap race. That should never happen. The difference in drivers should be hundredths of a second per lap. Not seconds per lap.
Right now I'm competing in the GT National Championship series. The cars I'm against are Jag S-Type R, TommyKaira ZZ-S, RUF 3400S, Various Skylines and M3's. I'm destroying them all completely with a slightly tuned Clio RS. That shouldn't happen. I perhaps should be able to get into the mix, but the end result should be gaps of perhaps a second at most. Not 10 seconds like it's happening at the moment.
- 125
- Bath
- Richiehill1988
This is true. I would enjoy that, without having to fuss with making a guess as to which car will give me the most challenge, but a reasonable chance of a first place finish. And everyone is asking for something like this as an option. Maybe Hardcore Mode will be its own entire section, not a level of difficulty. I'd love to see that. This could happen. It would fit within Kaz's vision of putting us in a virtual race or series, and a taste of that adrenaline rush he feels, without excluding anyone.
There's another thing I meant to bring up, something I thought about last night but forgot. Perception is just too subjective. It has been mentioned a number of times in this thread, but it clearly needs to be repeated. One man's hard is another man's easy. There is no objective measure of this whatsoever. Just take the few times someone mentioned that granny could gold these License Tests. Not any granny I've ever met.
You guys have to remember that most of you are, to one degree or another, masters of this craft of virtual racing. In the GT Academy trials, I was within the top 10% of those trying, and about a million people around the globe gave it a shot. I might have been six or eight percent, but let's just leave it there. That means I was better than roughly 900,000 other gamers. And this is roughly 10 or 15% of the GT fanbase at the time. I can't recall any times, but the margin to my recollection from top to bottom was around thirty seconds. Let's say the fastest lap was 1:30, worst was 2:00. Considering that not every GT gamer tried it, where would you draw the Easy line? 1:45?
If you think so, keep this in mind. You may have just failed 95% of all those who bought the game. Would that be a fair License Test?
This is what Polyphony has to deal with in designing a game. And this is probably why game companies aren't hunting you guys down for advice.
To me, Gran Turismo is kind of like winning the lottery, especially GT6. It isn't overly dry and clinical, and cars don't seem like loaners to me as they are in PC sims. The bots may be aggravating, but they don't try to kill me like they sometimes do in Forza. Thanks to the Login Bonus and new Seasonals, I generally have lots of money. I can conceivably own, virtually, every car in the game and feel like it's mine. And even though it can be easy, it can also be as hard as I want to make it, thanks to the insanely diverse car list and nice mod options. I can and have lost races, and enjoyed it! And this is just the core game. Added goodies are coming.
Things will change. This will likely be Gran Turismo's finest, most fun year ever.
I have absolutely no doubt that your analysis is correct. However, I'm not trying to draw "the easy line" that's done with a bronze level trophy, which in fairness should stay as they are. I agree with them. But Golds are too easy. I'm getting golds constantly - I'm rubbish. I should never be able to achieve gold. Silver at most!
My major gripe isn't with trophies, Licenses or Seasonal events. It's simply down to the AI not being good enough - especially in the late game.
Yeah, again this is kind of true but also false.
And you must have got shipped a different game than me.
Please read,really funny:
I just did the race (first "S" Willow. 8laps) again because i could not remember what tires i used jesterday.
100% stock MP4-12C on SH, was in lead by mid 7th lap when those fools of (fast) AI decided to do a 2nd pit stop at the end of 7th lap.
The two Veyrons in the race did a fastest lap 0,8 (on SS) faster than mine so would have been impossible to catch them (started 1st and 2nd, 15sec. Ahead of me), but those fools went in the pit for fuel at the end of 3rd lap with just over 1/4 left in the tank, so they could have made it with one stop after 4th. instead they had to pit again in 6th.
The AI MP4-12C had a fastest of 3sec. slower than mine (on SH) so he would have been a real challenge.
Unfortunately he went in the pits for fuel at the end of 5th and LEFT ONLY REFULED TO 50% , so as you may have guessed he had to top up again at the end of 7th.
How can you have a serious race with such idiots ?
In the end a Murcielago that started 5th and only did one stop finished 2nd 10sec. Behind me.
Kind of close but a awful race.
So what i am supposed to do now ? Look for a car that is 10sec./8 per lap slower and try the race again with the hope that the opponents are 100% the same and they use 100% the same stupid strategy so that i can have a close race with the Murcie at the end ?
Don't think that will work ..
Edit: S... Made a mistake, of corse i was on SPORT hard not race.
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Watch the videos of a man called "touristenfahrer" on YT.SciroccoRich
You will see that the driver has way more influence on the time than the car.
(Also very nice videos as reference for tire squeal and car sound)
You could argue that the huge differences between AI simulate different skill levels of drivers.
But this should really stop in IA and S races, it is just silly that in the GT3 champ. always the same drivers finish up front and other always fall behind 30sec. in 5 laps.
And this is also gets amplified by the stupid opponent car selection a lot.
FXX up front F40 at the back, 2003 LMP 1 up front 90's GT1 car and a 60's LM GT race car at the back.
(Not made up, actual examples of stupid GT grids)
I don't know where this comes from, do they only go by LP ?
But a 600 LP tuned street car is not the same as a 600LP GT3 race car.
They should really start to put cars in categories and let us race against fewer (if there are not enough cars from the same clas) and closer matched opponents.
as Tenacious D said ther propably must be a bit of spread between them to prevent clusters building but at the moment it is ridiculous.
- 125
- Bath
- Richiehill1988
Yeah I completely agree with you! A driver has far more influence on the time than the car generally speaking. But when you're at a level competing against each other, generally speaking the car has a much higher influence than say if I was just to go on an open day. When at certain levels of competition, the drivers, realistically, should be fairly matched.
- 13,913
- Adelaide
- Neomone
GT5 had bot behaviour tweaked, yes. But it didn't exactly change a lot. Some of the behaviours on track changed and that was nice, but the AI were still and are still to this day horrendously uncompetitive in GT5.
What do you really expect them to change with GT6 AI? They've done this by design, I hardly think they're going to change their mind now after having three years to think and test and play with it.
- 320
- East Coast
- Connissuer
I see all the different viewpoints of everyones posts but perhaps you should have made a poll as well?
They really could have done a little bit fine tuning, those thing with the AI ruining a otherwise promising race by just incredible stupid pit strategy happened a few times to me now.
There are only two sets of opponents for each race, first time you enter you get the one with "a strong nemesis at front" if you withdraw and try again (sometimes 2-3 times) you usually get somewhat closer matched opponents.
At least this is my impression.
How hard can it be to test each of this races and have a look at what strategy the AI does ?
If the do something real stupid just change the race (1-lap more or less) or the opponents (car, tires) a bit to prevent it from happening.
Or is this the same as with the slowdown AI ?
They let the AI do things a real racer would never do to let the player win and think he is a superior driver and race engineer ?
Seems to work for some if you read the thread i posted before about the "awesome 24min. Races"
There are only two sets of opponents for each race, first time you enter you get the one with "a strong nemesis at front" if you withdraw and try again (sometimes 2-3 times) you usually get somewhat closer matched opponents.
At least this is my impression.
How hard can it be to test each of this races and have a look at what strategy the AI does ?
If the do something real stupid just change the race (1-lap more or less) or the opponents (car, tires) a bit to prevent it from happening.
Or is this the same as with the slowdown AI ?
They let the AI do things a real racer would never do to let the player win and think he is a superior driver and race engineer ?
Seems to work for some if you read the thread i posted before about the "awesome 24min. Races"
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I'll try not to sound like I'm picking on you. But honestly, what racer has "good" bots? Someone was very proud of Race 07's bots, but I just didn't get what he was so thrilled about.
Gran Turismo's bots are strange guys to be sure, but the only alternative I've found have been:
- Forza, Grid, NFS and the like. Aggressive bashers.
- PC sims. Boring polite cruise missiles with little personality. They go fast, they go slower, they go like they're on rails.
Honestly, other than the timid way they take turns and brake check you, and give up when you get a one second lead or at the end of the race in GT6, they give me a good race. Those things are problems to be sure, and I want them fixed too. But if we got the bots from Toca or GTR, people would be grouching about them being those same old road rockets from GT1 - 4.
- 89
I choose a car with 50 to 80 percent less PP then the max PP for the race. I also will use lesser tires. That makes the racing a little more challenging. Otherwise it's way to easy for us people who have been playing GT for a long time.
But teaching them basic math could not be that hard or ?
If i have 1/4th of the distance to go to reach 1/2 race distance and i have more then 1/4th fuel left, do i stop in 3rd lap to do an extra stop in 6th or 4th lap to finish with one stop ?
I had to stop for fuel after 5 of 8 laps, how much i need for the remaining 3 laps, 50% ?
Doh! not enough lets top up in 7th again.
1st case is a 100% no brainers, everyone would take the risk even if there is a chance to ran out of fuel short before the pit/finish (you see that all the time in reality).
2nd case could be one of those where someone got it a bit wrong by a few litres.
(But i am not convinced PD tried to simulate that, the AI is just stupid)
And the thing with the rain tires is the same.
Sounds like programmer X got the task to do tire strategy for AI:
0-20% rain= stay on slick
20-50% rain= pit for inter
50-100% rain= pit for heavy wet
Finished
Then came game designer Y and said:
Oh my god, driving in rain with slicks is way to difficult we have to make that easier for casual player.
And gave programmer Z the order to increase wet grip in career so that most people can fell good because they can tame a race car in the rain on hard slicks.
Problem is they forgot to tell programmer X to change his his lines in something like:
Don't change tires if player does not change his.
Or Don't change tires if TC and ASK have not to be active over 30% of the last lap to keep you on track.
Doh! You end up with AI doing 4stops in mixed conditions while i can cruise to victory with one fuel stop on race hards.
This is not hardware related or because it is impossible to program human like AI, this just looks like bad teamwork or game design an sloppy testing.
Edit: Or intention !
Xiamoto
Premium
- 673
- United States
Didn't you mean to say that there isn't one DEFAULT event in GT6 which you found personally difficult?
I am happy to give you parameters for setting up an offline race that will only be possible for the top .01% of GT6 Gamers to achieve a win. If that is still too easy for you, I can give you parameters that will make it impossible to achieve a win.
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
- 13,913
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Game Stock Car 13. I still think GT Legends has excellent AI, quick and cleaner than most humans, but they have some problem spots on some tracks so they're not universally great. The pCARS prototype bots have been through moments where they were nearly human if you took the time to fiddle with the tons of variables on them, but at the moment they're pretty much broken.
Nonetheless, while there's no games that I would consider to have wholly satisfactory bots, I struggle to think of one that's worse than GT. NFS: Shift probably comes close simply because they were so aggressive it was unfun, but at least they were quick. I'm aware that you think that speed is less important than manners, but my experience with racing humans is that they're generally pretty aggressive too.
The point is not that good AI isn't hard. It is hard. But GT AI is bottom of the barrel by pretty much any standard you care to name. Making exceptional AI is a herculean task that I don't think anyone has achieved, but making AI that is better than GTs current fare is something that pretty much every other game has managed.
You should probably note that grouping all PC sims together is a bit unfair, just as grouping all non-GT console games together is a bit unfair. There's a lot of PC sims based on gmotor/ISI stuff, and the behaviours of the AI are largely similar but not entirely the same.
Frankly, I judge AI against a rookie race in iRacing. Rookie races are notoriously dangerous, but the people there have made a non-trivial investment and are likely at least racing aficionados. Some are quick, most are slightly mental, a lot don't have perfect car control, and I think that's a good description of an average online race. If AI can replicate the sort of experience I get in those races (or better), then I think that's pretty good.
Bonus points awarded if I spend a lap or more within about 0.2 of one of the AI, or we go two or three wide through multiple corners without incident, because most humans can't manage that.
I don't expect the same level of racing that I'd get in a league race where everyone has practised the car and track for a week beforehand. It's hard enough to get that with real players.
An important point for me is being in equal machinery as well. If the AI can't keep up with the player without an advantage in machinery, it's not good enough. If the player is required to start crippling themselves then any AI becomes acceptable, simply by crippling the player more.
So, given that all games have imperfect AI, I largely take notice of how frequently I encounter races that meet my conditions above for being similar to an iRacing rookie race. I haven't taken notes of all my races ever, but for each game I've usually taken notice of at least a streak of 20-30 games to get an idea of the relative quality, because I have an interest in this stuff.
All of these with difficulty settings on max (whatever the equivalent for that is for each game):
GT5(career) = basically never, the rolling start thing makes it impossible.
GT5(arcade) = ~1 in 8
GT Legends = ~3 in 4
Game Stock Car = ~3 in 4
pCARS(when the AI worked) = ~1 in 2
pCARS(now) = hardly ever
FM4 = ~1 in 3
Horizon = basically never
Ferrari Challenge = ~1 in 5
Codies F1 games = ~1 in 4
Shift/Shift2 = ~1 in 6 (and at least another 1 in 6 of wall punching frustration at the aggression)
GTR2 = ~1 in 6? There's too many tracks where they get monstered because they can't take a chicane at speed.
Note that I expect a bit of aggression and mistakes from the AI, so I use racecraft to keep myself safe as I would with an unpredictable human driver. Some people find that unacceptable in AI, and expect them to respect the player's space at all times.
- 5,814
- Hillsboro Oregon
- XDesperado67
- XDesperado67
If GT had an AI at least comparable to the original GRID one I'd be thrilled. Yes you could get some bumping and grinding in the pack, but to be honest a lot of that was caused by the players own aggressiveness and not the AI. At least with GRID and to a lesser extent Shift 2 you felt like you were actually engaging in a race and not just negotiating moving road blocks.
Love GT6 and the physics, hate the AI or at least in my opinion lack of AI.
That said I still don't think the game is to easy and find plenty of challenge in it.
Love GT6 and the physics, hate the AI or at least in my opinion lack of AI.
That said I still don't think the game is to easy and find plenty of challenge in it.
- 10
- Netherlands
I found the seasonal with the BMW M4 quite perfect difficulty t.b.h.
I have run 30 laps on it and didnt get gold yet. Yet at the same time I can easily see there is 1 sec to spare somewhere and I redlapped it at -0.25 at some point.
If I focus and race reasonable I will get it. Too bad this is an untuned event. Hope to see a tunable one that offers equal difficulty soon.
That you need to think well about where to put PP and tune things to have a shot at gold time. As it was in the later GT5 seasonals.
I have run 30 laps on it and didnt get gold yet. Yet at the same time I can easily see there is 1 sec to spare somewhere and I redlapped it at -0.25 at some point.
If I focus and race reasonable I will get it. Too bad this is an untuned event. Hope to see a tunable one that offers equal difficulty soon.
That you need to think well about where to put PP and tune things to have a shot at gold time. As it was in the later GT5 seasonals.
The one with the MiTo is "tuning allowed"
Race suspension (springs/dampers a bit stiffer, rear max toe out and big camber, front stock), mid range turbo and reduce to allowed pp, and upgrade clutch for faster shifting, think i used a LSD too for good measure (5/60/5)
And you will get the one with the M4 gold, should be a thread around here somewhere with a few tips.
Think about it that way as it will force you to get the most out of the material you got.
For me it is one of the most fun parts in GT, to "explore" the cars and find out how to drive them efficient/fast.
GT6 became really good in making the cars feel more different and requiring a bit of adapting your driving style for each one of them
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- 92
- Australia
- Adam-aw11
The driving physics are realistically hard with a normal controller.
The licence tests are really easy - so what? its not a big part of the game for me at all.
The computer opponents seem to drive fairly slowly, especially if you enter the fastest car you can and max out the allowed pp every time.
When you overtake the leader, they seem to speed up, and try to overtake back, put pressure on, and knock you off the track. They seem to try to stay in your slipstream when behind you, even if you veer around a bit.
They seem to try to block you out a bit and make it difficult to overtake.
I'm loving the driving physics though, mid-engined cars are a great challenge, you just have to be very smooth on the steering and the throttle like you would in real life. You couldn't get away with digital on-off buttons now, it forces you to be smooth or loose it.
Imagine trying to hit full steering lock on and off, and full throttle on and off, mid corner in a 900hp MR 1000kg car? you could get away with it in the older games though.
I could see people simply not bothering to update the game, and continue complaining even if the problems are fixed in an update. As soon as you take it out of the case there is a 1.2GB download to update, but you could still just play the game anyway.
The licence tests are really easy - so what? its not a big part of the game for me at all.
The computer opponents seem to drive fairly slowly, especially if you enter the fastest car you can and max out the allowed pp every time.
When you overtake the leader, they seem to speed up, and try to overtake back, put pressure on, and knock you off the track. They seem to try to stay in your slipstream when behind you, even if you veer around a bit.
They seem to try to block you out a bit and make it difficult to overtake.
I'm loving the driving physics though, mid-engined cars are a great challenge, you just have to be very smooth on the steering and the throttle like you would in real life. You couldn't get away with digital on-off buttons now, it forces you to be smooth or loose it.
Imagine trying to hit full steering lock on and off, and full throttle on and off, mid corner in a 900hp MR 1000kg car? you could get away with it in the older games though.
I could see people simply not bothering to update the game, and continue complaining even if the problems are fixed in an update. As soon as you take it out of the case there is a 1.2GB download to update, but you could still just play the game anyway.
