Is GT6 too easy?

[Ryan81]

I found it pretty easy so far but then I'm only on National B. I'm the kind of guy who doesn't rush games.

 

[GregOr1971]

Everyone having different expectations for a game is so obvious it's barely worth stating in the first place. I didn't quote it because I didn't think it needed spelling out, again. I considered it implicit in the quote I did make; if PD can't please everyone then obviously everyone has different expectations.

So your point is that if everyone has different expectations, it's OK for PD to design a game that only meets the lowest common denominator? How is that, exactly?

I made reference to the original license tests, where gold was generally a bit of an achievement. I don't see any reason why GT6 needed to lower the bar for gold licenses. The system worked fine in GT1-4. It worked fine in GT5 too, except that it wasn't gating any content outside of more licenses, so it was basically a bunch of driving missions.

Tell me why the licenses needed to be made easier, when previously any schmo could get bronze and have access to all content. Why essentially remove content that would give gameplay to the more skilled player, and give less skilled players a target to strive for?

To answer why bars were lowered.While racing aficionados play game for joy of racing and being challenged , you can see by many posts on forum that many casual racers or gamers are already challenged with events (that many of us would pass in a breeze) and they are only looking to finish (platinum) game and move on . Why so ? I don't know , I never bought game just to finish it for sake of trophies and then throw it somewhere.

Thing is , when gaming industry become a mainstream a decade ago ,you can saw a shift from mentality that "gamer need to master game" into a "game will adopt to a gamer" , so here we are with fact that casual racers and gamers are the majority of customers and to cater them ,bars were lowered ,so everyone can finish game and consequentialy feel good about it and get platinum trophy. Watching that bronze medal isn't same as watching gold - when this happens and people get challenged and fail ,they are not happy , they're frustrated and then you see posts like > this is frustrating , it is impossible , game is grind,I'm not happy i can't finish game with gold , Ill never buy that game again... Sign o the times

 

[stb155]

Apparently what is too difficult for some is figuring out to choose a less powerful car!

And for others it's to difficult to understand how the new AI works and that using a slower car only makes them drive alower.

It has nothing to do with entitlement, from what i can tell GT6 aims to teach you to drive, not challenge your driving abilities. Making gold as challenging as GT5 defeats that purpose.

No it does not because gold times (up to IA) are so easy that you can make them without knowing how to drive.
There is no need to drive a good line, have car control or concentrate on "slow in/fast out"
You just drive trough the test and can miss every apex by 2m but if you don't make a big mistake you still get gold.

In GT5 some where really hard (i don't think i ever did all gold) but the good thing was that you really had to learn how to drive fast, how to use every centimeter of the track and how to use the advantages of the car you got.

I have no problem that they made it easier for casuals and make them feel like good driver because they can do all tests gold after 5h driving and make the AI let them win every race. I hate the tutorial and the Fit, but i can live with it.

But they really should have made those things optional for grown ups that don't want to be treated like kids.

Make the SRF optional for the tests/missions, make the rubber-banding optional, make damage optional, make slipstream optional and let me decide if i want short or realistic race distance.
Or at least give me a "custom race" option where i can make that

 

[Tsukasa_Bullet]

Regarding the licence tests, up to I-A I've manage to gold every test quite easy, It felt a bit too easy... In GT5 I don't think I golded even half of the tests. And the Goodwood races I also found fairly easy to get all-gold. It really boosted my confidence. But when trying the S-license I all of a sudden found myself struggling for bronze as if DP raised the difficulty exponentially there. Guess they want me to know I'm still a rookie who needs to learn how to drive, hehe.

 

[Dusty1990]

No, GT isn't too easy

 

[stb155]

GT6 career mode and tropies are easy and thats good when were talking about GT basic level. from there you can allways use a slower car on career or go to seazonal world time challenges. i think GT is better allowing all its players the good feeling of victory. GT is richer as a simgame for slow, for fast, for children, for adult.

How can it be good for adults and fast people if it treats you like a child and is so easy arcade?
You are the next one who did not got how the new AI works, taking a slower car does not add difficulty !
The seasonal online events are also very easy !
(The one with the M4 has gold 2:18 i think, after 10min i was at 2:14 and i know i could do 1 sec. faster on a good lap, and this is still not really fast, i am only rank 30000 or something)
Seasonals are a nice way to get some $$$ and a diversity to career but sure no challenge so far.

 

[Alain Prost Fan]

Imari's posts are 100% spot on.

Getting gold is no longer an achievement. Any little kid and their grandma can get gold. The current gold target times should be silver. Gold needs to be something that only the more skilled drivers can achieve. It'll be an incentive to improve yourself.

Getting bronze would be enough give the casuals access to the next set of events etc. Achieving gold should be more rewarding. To hand golds out on a platter to everyone to make them feel better is ludicrous.

Let's take the Goodwood X2010 event for example. It's possible to get under the gold time by 6/7+ seconds even with a DS3. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you have to gold all A and B Spec events to get the trophy? That was another reason why having A and B Spec separate in GT5 was a mistake.

Just one of them has to be all gold, also the licence tests and Special Events.

If there is no way you can lose in GT6, you are too awesome for this universe.

I know this aggravates some of you, but I have had fun with cars running less than 20% of the PP limit. I use the limit tire type because I must admit I love as much grip as possible. Yes, often the bots will let me win, but not always, and it's satisfying to sometimes see the second place car pull into the lead and stay there. Once in a while, finish fourth. I've run sports cars in race car series just to see where I might end up, with is about halfway back of the leader or worse, naturally. After I've aced the series of course.

I've already been through this scenario, having improved my skill in GT2 to the point that I could sometimes beat the field with a car up to 60% below regulation limits. It didn't make GT2 a bad game. For me, it made GT2 a better game. And it's the same way with GT6. Yes, the game could be harder, but does it have to be?

If some of you guys can't have fun with the game, that's one thing, but I wouldn't get too carried away with assuming that most gamers feel the same way you do. GT5 sold a million copies between November 2012 and last August, and that was in a market likely swamped with used games. And GT5 is supposedly the worst game in the series. Predict at your peril.

I did some events in IA yesterday and the bots as you say can fight for lead once second player attacks for first. It is I guess due to rubber banding AI but sure is challenging especially on tracks that is mainly straights like Circuit de la Sarthe. The XJR-9 was right on my tail for most of the race and I think it was a championship event so had to hold my nerve to make sure I won all the events in championship with my tuned up Nissan Skyline R34 V-Spec. However on tracks that there is a lot of corners like Nurburgring 24hr track, they finished way behind. Anyway I find more fun in the driving of the game though so it is not all that bad.

I just hope for PS4 they have different kind of AI than most of previous GT games, ones that you race really close to all other cars and have series where all cars are very similar in spec. If not then GT4 style of game would be awesome still. I remember when I got GT4, Bronze felt like an achievement to me, I think they should try and make that more the case in future GT games than devaluing Gold.

 

[Ginoong Multo]

the difficulty of GT6, and the franchise as a whole, is pretty much subjective to the infinitely various preferences of the players of this car game...period.

Those who play GT will naturally tell it's easy, its difficult, or very much in the borderline, deal with it and just enjoy this videogame that has been existing for more than 15 years already

 

[stb155]

I did some events in IA yesterday and the bots as you say can fight for lead once second player attacks for first. It is I guess due to rubber banding AI but sure is challenging especially on tracks that is mainly straights like Circuit de la Sarthe. The XJR-9 was right on my tail for most of the race and I think it was a championship event so had to hold my nerve to make sure I won all the events in championship with my tuned up Nissan Skyline R34 V-Spec. However on tracks that there is a lot of corners like Nurburgring 24hr track, they finished way behind. Anyway I find more fun in the driving of the game though so it is not all that bad.

This is because the AI mainly slow down in the corners for you, on the straights they usually drive fast.
But try to always stay in 2nd place behind the leader an you will notice that he even starts to slow down on the straights in the last laps. I had that in one of the 15min. Races. Stayed 2nd and in the first 1-2 laps behind the leader he was always pulling away on the straights (he had more powerful car) in the 3rd lap behind him i could stay behind him and in the 4th lap i had to reduce throttle to 70% on the straight to not drive by him.

I would say this is the definition of a easy game for kids.

...like Circuit de la Sarthe. The XJR-9 was right on my tail for most of the race... ...with my tuned up Nissan Skyline R34 V-Spec. ...

Again, shows perfect how stupid easy the game is when you can win a race with such a awful car choice !

 

[tankuroded]

Imari's posts are 100% spot on.

Getting gold is no longer an achievement. Any little kid and their grandma can get gold. The current gold target times should be silver. Gold needs to be something that only the more skilled drivers can achieve. It'll be an incentive to improve yourself.

Getting bronze would be enough give the casuals access to the next set of events etc. Achieving gold should be more rewarding. To hand golds out on a platter to everyone to make them feel better is ludicrous.

Let's take the Goodwood X2010 event for example. It's possible to get under the gold time by 6/7+ seconds even with a DS3. It's absolutely ridiculous.

By the logic you described in the second paragraph, that means the current silver times must be bronze, right?

 

[SillyBillyP]

And for others it's to difficult to understand how the new AI works and that using a slower car only makes them drive alower.

I understand how the new ai works. And indeed the ai drives slower, but only to a certain point.

Have you tried using a car with around 100 / 150 pp and one or two tyre grades lower than the opposition?

 

[Imari]

By the logic you described in the second paragraph, that means the current silver times must be bronze, right?

Not really. Current bronze times should probably still be bronze. 100% of people should be able to achieve bronze. If there's anyone who can't get bronze in say, twenty minutes, your bronze time is too hard.

Silver times should be a moderate challenge for an intermediate player. Either people have those skills already, or learning them is not a huge hardship (thus promoting the kind of learning that a few people have referred to already).

Gold times should require near inch perfect driving.

If trophies are the problem, don't tie the platinum to gold licenses. Trophies shouldn't define what the gameplay can be.

Just one of them has to be all gold, also the licence tests and Special Events.

Cool. I learned something today.

 

[stb155]

Have you tried using a car with around 100 / 150 pp and one or two tyre grades lower than the opposition?

Yes, and i got the david vs goliath trophy a few times.

It is still no fun and no challenge, i can see at the split times in the race that i first have no chance and then suddenly they gift me 30sec and more in 2 laps. I can see them creeping around corners like grandma on sunday and braking on the straights. And if i go by them and they start going fast again i have no chance to beat them fair.
So i have to time it right to overtake them in the last corner before they can react or block them.

Stupid, fake and childish. NOT what i seek in a "real driving simulator"

Edit:
Before i do that (150pp and 2 tire steps down) i take a equal car and see the race as hotlapping with obstacles and just enjoy driving without caring what AI does and how far back they finish.
But its very sad to have to do that in a racing game.

 

[GTLeigh]

Yesterday I did the S Licence and this was not easy at all, especially the Willow Springs and the Veyron one.

In the Willow Springs one I just could not see the track properly, I had felt that I'd learned it enough in other races but the thing is I still need to see where I'm going. Got Bronze and was happy it was over.

The Veyron one gave me the most problems, nearly gave up as I was due at a New Years party, had one last go and got bronze, just. Did I feel like that was an achievement, yes. Will I go back to try to gold it, probably not.

The point is that those who are saying that the S Licences can be gold in one or two tries are either Ayrton Senna or just making it up, the fact that you may have got gold does not mean it was easy.

Also, all this rubbish about the AI stopping to let you past, tell you what get a 1949 Beatle, do nothing to it, not even an oil change then enter an IA race and see where you get.

What people need to remember is that this is a game to be enjoyed, its about driving the cars you wouldn't be able to in real life. Do you really think a PS3 console has the power to run a proper simulator of anything? If you do then your going to be disappointed with almost everything.

Its a game, enjoy it as the game it's supposed to be.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Some of the events are not too easy if you dont take the right car toward the end. I think the single player is just right as imo its only a precusor to playing online. The faster I can get there the better.

 

[fortbo]

I don't think it is too easy. It all depends on the car you choose to use for that event. If you use a car that is a lot faster than the other cars then it will seem too easy. What I do is use a car that is at least 80 pp lower than the limit for the event. It will be more of a challenge then. I also never use any driving aids and that includes abs.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not really. Current bronze times should probably still be bronze. 100% of people should be able to achieve bronze. If there's anyone who can't get bronze in say, twenty minutes, your bronze time is too hard.

Silver times should be a moderate challenge for an intermediate player. Either people have those skills already, or learning them is not a huge hardship (thus promoting the kind of learning that a few people have referred to already).

Gold times should require near inch perfect driving.

If trophies are the problem, don't tie the platinum to gold licenses. Trophies shouldn't define what the gameplay can be.

Cool. I learned something today.

In a world where nearly everyone who does something good and decent is hailed as a "hero" on national tv, and every kid who enters a sporting event gets a trophy, the bar for "greatness" is definitely much lower these days. Gone are the days where not everyone has to "win" or "get gold" to consider something fun and rewarding. The "challenge" of something used to be most of the reward and "gold" meant you were in an elite category. We've raised a whole generation of kids that believe that "getting gold" is all that matters, even if "getting gold" is as easy as getting bronze was 10 years ago.

 

[stb155]

Have you tried using a car with around 100 / 150 pp and one or two tyre grades lower than the opposition?

Edit: s... Wrong quote, meant to quote that one:

What I do is use a car that is at least 80 pp lower than the limit for the event. It will be more of a challenge then. I also never use any driving aids and that includes abs.

I wish i had started with ABS0 at the beginning, this really makes the races a lot more fun and challenging as it is not so easy to outbreak 3 AI's in one corner without ABS but a lot easier to miss a corner and go straight in the gravel trap.

The Veyron one gave me the most problems, nearly gave up as I was due at a New Years party, had one last go and got bronze, just. Did I feel like that was an achievement, yes. Will I go back to try to gold it, probably not.

This one is similar to the one with the X2010 in Goodwood, once you found out how to treat the car it is really not that hard.
I also was 7sec. of gold on the first attempt and thought this would be a hard one to get.
Did a few more runs and tested how to get the car around corners, on the next serious attempt i had a 2:11,8 only aid ABS ,and forced SRF of corse what makes i a lot easier. (gold=2:14).
Key is to use the whole track (=cut corners) , don't brake late or go in corners to fast (once this fat car is in understeer u use massive time), use the weightshift under braking to get it a bit sideways in corners.
You can add me if you want to watch the line.


It will be interesting how the easy gameplay will effect long time motivation...
In GT4/5 there was always a license test or special event you still had to get gold or a race you could do with a different car.
In GT6 it is pretty easy to do all gold early on for many players and it makes not much difference which car u use in a race.
For a decent GT Veteran it should not take more than 2 weeks to get all races and tests/missions gold and have 99% completed, and then ?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

This is because the AI mainly slow down in the corners for you, on the straights they usually drive fast.
But try to always stay in 2nd place behind the leader an you will notice that he even starts to slow down on the straights in the last laps. I had that in one of the 15min. Races. Stayed 2nd and in the first 1-2 laps behind the leader he was always pulling away on the straights (he had more powerful car) in the 3rd lap behind him i could stay behind him and in the 4th lap i had to reduce throttle to 70% on the straight to not drive by him.

I would say this is the definition of a easy game for kids.


Again, shows perfect how stupid easy the game is when you can win a race with such a awful car choice !

I don't know if AI becomes tougher in later parts of the game but I don't think slowing down would have helped me in that race. I did at some other race to get one of the trophies and they did slow down but the event I was doing, he was pulling away from me in the straights so I had to drive right on the limit to overtake and stay ahead. It is also a champhionship event so was not going to take any chances on that front.

The car is awesome, I think it was the dream car championship, well car is a dream car for me.

Yesterday I did the S Licence and this was not easy at all, especially the Willow Springs and the Veyron one.

In the Willow Springs one I just could not see the track properly, I had felt that I'd learned it enough in other races but the thing is I still need to see where I'm going. Got Bronze and was happy it was over.

The Veyron one gave me the most problems, nearly gave up as I was due at a New Years party, had one last go and got bronze, just. Did I feel like that was an achievement, yes. Will I go back to try to gold it, probably not.

The point is that those who are saying that the S Licences can be gold in one or two tries are either Ayrton Senna or just making it up, the fact that you may have got gold does not mean it was easy.

Also, all this rubbish about the AI stopping to let you past, tell you what get a 1949 Beatle, do nothing to it, not even an oil change then enter an IA race and see where you get.

What people need to remember is that this is a game to be enjoyed, its about driving the cars you wouldn't be able to in real life. Do you really think a PS3 console has the power to run a proper simulator of anything? If you do then your going to be disappointed with almost everything.

Its a game, enjoy it as the game it's supposed to be.

Don't think you have to be that fast to get Gold, I haven't done the S Licence ones but I imagine I will Gold them by a few seconds on my first complete attempt. I started playing GT2 a few months back, the early licence tests I am on, and it feels like I have to dig deep to get Gold driving close to the absolute limit.

 

[daus26]

What I don't understand from the more casual players is the fact that from past GTs the bar has always been higher for golds in license tests so I don't understand the frustrations of having to achieve gold as a must. When I played GT1 - GT3, I didn't mind getting bronze or silver first time running the game. It didn't affect my game completion at all. If anything the higher standard made me go back and try to improve and gold them all. If it were as easy as GT6, I probably wouldn't become the player I am now. Inching for perfection is also one of the few reasons why I am able to master some new tracks and certain cars themselves, or rather the physics in relation to each series. Now it has become very casual to the point that they're no longer a teaching tool personally on how far I can really push the new physics engine on the new tracks, or simply a measurement of my personal achievement.

At this rate the bronze times may become the gold standard in GT9 or something. As Imari pointed out, it might as well be a pass/fail affair at that point. It's not this bad in GT6 but it eventually will if the series try to go in the direction so that every casuals can get gold. I think it's fine they do this for seasonals but I never figured they would do so for the license tests in career mode.

As for races, I don't really care. It feels as easy/hard as previous GTs although I still have some gripes about being able to win after 2-3 spin outs in some races which I didn't find possible from past GTs.

 

[stb155]

What I don't understand from the more casual players is the fact that from past GTs the bar has always been higher for golds in license tests so I don't understand the frustrations of having to achieve gold as a must. When I played GT1 - GT3, I didn't mind getting bronze or silver first time running the game. It didn't affect my game completion at all. If anything the higher standard made me go back and try to improve and gold them all. If it were as easy as GT6, I probably wouldn't become the player I am now. Inching for perfection is also one of the few reasons why I am able to master some new tracks and certain cars themselves, or rather the physics in relation to each series. Now it has become very casual to the point that they're no longer a teaching tool personally on how far I can really push the new physics engine on the new tracks, or simply a measurement of my personal achievement.

At this rate the bronze times may become the gold standard in GT9 or something. As Imari pointed out, it might as well be a pass/fail affair at that point. It's not this bad in GT6 but it eventually will if the series try to go in the direction so that every casuals can get gold. I think it's fine they do this for seasonals but I never figured they would do so for the license tests in career mode.

As for races, I don't really care. It feels as easy/hard as previous GTs although I still have some gripes about being able to win after 2-3 spin outs in some races which I didn't find possible from past GTs.

Yeah, as said it will probably effect long time motivation a lot because there is nothing left to achieve later on if it is so easy to get all gold in 2 weeks.

And it will prevent a lot of players to become anything better than "casual level" drivers because there is no need for advanced driving to get gold any longer.

I can really understand that they wanted to open the game for new players and want to get them hooked up by making them believe they are good drivers.
But i think the bar is just to low now and could become a boomerang as people will get bored fast when they are led to believe they "mastered" the game in 2 weeks.
(But maybe this is the new business model and they keep em entertained with monthly DLC's and a new game every year, just look at NFS series. Seems GT goes the same way now.)

And they pissed of a lot of old fans of the series with it and robbed themselves from what could have been a good tool to split up players in skill levels for online matching or AI skill level adjustment in the background (they obviously won't give us a "AI slider" in career for some reason, so there should at least be some adjusting in the background instead of this awful "slowdown and wait for the player to overtake")

 

[elston87]

The only difficult thing for me in GT6 was the shifter kart championship, especially at GT Arena. If your control with the throttle isn't 100% strict and precise, you'll probably end up spinning out time after time again. Other than that, the game feels very easy to me; the license tests, except for S, feel significantly easier. It took me oodles of retries to nab a gold time for some tests in GT5. They required so much more practice to get a gold time, and when you finally get all of them for a license class, it felt so good.

GT6 definitely seems more appealing to the casuals in my eyes. I've pretty much driven casually throughout every event within the career mode besides the shifter kart championship and NASCAR; the edgy AI just loves to nudge your tail just enough for you to wipe out. I wished for more options within single player career, as I'm not one who enjoys online GT. If only the Open Lobby was filled with more interesting rooms...

 

[lusitanuno]

How can it be good for adults and fast people if it treats you like a child and is so easy arcade?
You are the next one who did not got how the new AI works, taking a slower car does not add difficulty !
The seasonal online events are also very easy !
(The one with the M4 has gold 2:18 i think, after 10min i was at 2:14 and i know i could do 1 sec. faster on a good lap, and this is still not really fast, i am only rank 30000 or something)
Seasonals are a nice way to get some $$$ and a diversity to career but sure no challenge so far.

- i meant that my problem is not what GT is or has today but what it is not. i do think that GT misses more challenging races. i created the thread "poll:race creator for career mode", exacly because of that. with time, we'd learn how to build competitive races.
- seazonal time challenges do exacly what i belive by "allowing gold trophies to everybody" but the top challenge in them can be won only by one racer, the one with the fastest time in the world. not so easy at all.it's the hardest possible.
- the ideal, for me, would be a game with diferent dificulty levels and diferenciated trophies awarded acordingly to the dificulty used. everybody wins and skill is rewarded (all trophies would be on the status page and online)

 

[digitalwolf]

Why does having gold licenses be hard make it harder to learn to drive? The learning aspect is still there if you're getting bronze and silver, that hasn't changed.

If anything, having golds near the limit of what is possible is better for learning, because it provides a marker for the player to know that they're really getting something right. Having golds several seconds from the limit is just an arbitrary marker, it provides no real information.

It's nothing to do with my skill level, which I haven't even referred to at all and I'm guessing you have no idea whether I'm an alien or struggling to get bronzes. It's about undercutting a system that worked perfectly fine at providing content for a range of players, for no apparently good reason.

It's about good game design, which contrary to popular belief is not simply a bunch of Skinner boxes that give you a medal and make you feel good when you push a button.

It not that it makes it harder to learn to drive, it just doesn't teach you anything. The licence tests in GT5 required some retarded ways of getting gold, even risky ways. Not the kind of driving you'd see a real life driver use, but a man with nothing to lose. It felt wrong to have to drive like that, a licence test is not a place to push limits, that just doesn't seem like the point. Especially for a game that asks you to use manners when racing online.

There's more to game design than to "only" challenge you.

No it does not because gold times (up to IA) are so easy that you can make them without knowing how to drive.
There is no need to drive a good line, have car control or concentrate on "slow in/fast out"
You just drive trough the test and can miss every apex by 2m but if you don't make a big mistake you still get gold.

In GT5 some where really hard (i don't think i ever did all gold) but the good thing was that you really had to learn how to drive fast, how to use every centimeter of the track and how to use the advantages of the car you got.

Learning to drive fast should come with experience and confidence, not a 10 second section of turns. If i wasn't so already experienced with a wheel i would not have been able to handle the licences as well as i did (gold on first try with most with maybe 3 i had to redo a few times).

In GT5 some of the events WERE IMPOSSIBLE with a controler for most people, and even with a wheel you had to do some ridiculous stuff for gold.

 

[Imari]

It not that it makes it harder to learn to drive, it just doesn't teach you anything. The licence tests in GT5 required some retarded ways of getting gold, even risky ways. Not the kind of driving you'd see a real life driver use, but a man with nothing to lose. It felt wrong to have to drive like that, a licence test is not a place to push limits, that just doesn't seem like the point. Especially for a game that asks you to use manners when racing online.

There's more to game design than to "only" challenge you.

Certainly, but that's just bad test design. Making them easier doesn't fix that in any way, it just hides the problem.

If the tests are to be a learning tool, they need to be designed so that the correct technique is also the fastest technique. That's just a given.

 

[XDesperado67]

Certainly, but that's just bad test design. Making them easier doesn't fix that in any way, it just hides the problem.

If the tests are to be a learning tool, they need to be designed so that the correct technique is also the fastest technique. That's just a given.

Did you ever consider that maybe for GT6 they set the gold standard at just the point where getting the technique right would meet it?
There is a diference between knowing how to do something, just barely doing it right and doing it flawlessly.
Also even in GT6 its possible on some of the tests to get the best times by running lines that you couldn't on a full lap.

I'm guessing in GT5 you easily finished seasonal TTs in the top 10000. Guess what that makes you better than 80% of the people playing. PD Has to make a game that appeals to that other 80%. They can't stay in business just catering to the top 20%, or 1% or whatever.
Your local game stores have shelves littered with used games that were critically acclaimed by "experts" who raved about how tough and challenging they were. Odds are many of the companies who made those games are now defunct or have made newer games that were more accesable because there wasn't a big enough market for their "hardcore" game.

 

[machschnel]

To answer why bars were lowered.While racing aficionados play game for joy of racing and being challenged , you can see by many posts on forum that many casual racers or gamers are already challenged with events (that many of us would pass in a breeze) and they are only looking to finish (platinum) game and move on . Why so ? I don't know , I never bought game just to finish it for sake of trophies and then throw it somewhere.

Thing is , when gaming industry become a mainstream a decade ago ,you can saw a shift from mentality that "gamer need to master game" into a "game will adopt to a gamer" , so here we are with fact that casual racers and gamers are the majority of customers and to cater them ,bars were lowered ,so everyone can finish game and consequentialy feel good about it and get platinum trophy. Watching that bronze medal isn't same as watching gold - when this happens and people get challenged and fail ,they are not happy , they're frustrated and then you see posts like > this is frustrating , it is impossible , game is grind,I'm not happy i can't finish game with gold , Ill never buy that game again... Sign o the times

Did you ever consider that maybe for GT6 they set the gold standard at just the point where getting the technique right would meet it?
There is a diference between knowing how to do something, just barely doing it right and doing it flawlessly.
Also even in GT6 its possible on some of the tests to get the best times by running lines that you couldn't on a full lap.

I'm guessing in GT5 you easily finished seasonal TTs in the top 10000. Guess what that makes you better than 80% of the people playing. PD Has to make a game that appeals to that other 80%. They can't stay in business just catering to the top 20%, or 1% or whatever.
Your local game stores have shelves littered with used games that were critically acclaimed by "experts" who raved about how tough and challenging they were. Odds are many of the companies who made those games are now defunct or have made newer games that were more accesable because there wasn't a big enough market for their "hardcore" game.

Do you see the irony in trying to appeal to everyone by making things easier, but in doing so alienating a percentage of players (albeit smaller) anyway? This kind of "democratic" approach to game design will never please everyone, which is exactly why more options/sliders/race creators are needed. I remember playing GTR as a young kid and being able to basically make the game playable/enjoyable by simply adjusting some settings and yet as I grew older and got more competent, those same settings were changed to make the game harder. Truly a game for everyone.

 

[stb155]

Learning to drive fast should come with experience and confidence, not a 10 second section of turns. If i wasn't so already experienced with a wheel i would not have been able to handle the licences as well as i did (gold on first try with most with maybe 3 i had to redo a few times).

In GT5 some of the events WERE IMPOSSIBLE with a controler for most people, and even with a wheel you had to do some ridiculous stuff for gold.

Yes, a few test in GT5 seemed also impossible for me and i never did all gold.
But i know i am not the fastest man out there so i can live with that.

Still i learned a lot and become a better driver, not only from the test itself but because they pushed me to improve and look at videos or ask in forums how i can be faster.

I also agree that the tests are not perfect to teach you fast driving but they have tradition in GT and i also cant remember a other game that made it better.

Learning to drive fast should come with experience and confidence,

This is not enough, you need to be pushed to your limits and GT6 is certainly not doing that.
You don't really improve when you get pampered all the time.
(AI gifting you impossible wins and gold medals for average driving in test/missions)
First time you come across the right opponent online you know anyway how slow you still are.

The licence tests in GT5 required some retarded ways of getting gold, even risky ways. Not the kind of driving you'd see a real life driver use, but a man with nothing to lose. It felt wrong to have to drive like that, a licence test is not a place to push limits, that just doesn't seem like the point. Especially for a game that asks you to use manners when racing online.

True, but this is true for the whole career mode of GT5/6 if not before.
All races are extreme unrealistic because you always start last and have to overtake 14 cars in 3 laps, no damage or penalty for unfair driving whatsoever.

GT is the worst school for gentleman driving ever, you don't get rewarded for clean/fair driving and often have to be unfair to win in PD's perverse idea of a race/mission.

First thing they should do is a 50% raise in prize money if you finish a race without touching a opponent.
(Really no touch, not like in the missions where you can still ram them sideways and block them).
And also 20% extra for never leaving the track with all 4 wheels.

THAT would teach people how to drive nice and clean.

But instead they not even allow you to switch on the very basic damage model you have online in career.

 

[stb155]

Did you ever consider that maybe for GT6 they set the gold standard at just the point where getting the technique right would meet it?

If that was the intention they missed it and gone to low.
You don't need much technique to do gold up to "S" in GT6.
For most tests it is enough to make no mistake, you follow the displayed racing line, brake where it tells you, use the gear it tells you and push the accelerator where it tells you, ding - another gold.
(Not how i do it but i guess this is how it works for most newish players)

And we had this before, why gold for "not bad but 3 sec off what most would call fast" ?
This is what silver is for, while bronze should be easy for anyone using all aids.

Or if it really has to be GOLD to please the ego of the casuals at least have the decency to make SRF optional and add a "platinum" time that only shows up if you disable all aids.