- 4,122
- United States
Because it kind-of does.
is GT6's photo mode better than Forza 5?
- Thread starter bashfulboson
- 727 comments
- 73,890 views
Because it kind-of does.
- 606
- Poland
- Emet_PL
It has the best shadows quality (resolution, precision, number of car elements casting shadows) - GT5P >>>>>>>>>>>>>> GT5 >>>> GT6
- 423
- Detroit
- Razgriz2118
Just took a stroll through this thread from beginning to this point and I have come to the conclusion that 85% of the things people are saying aren't even related to the discussion even part of my post.
I saw a few of gtuned posts and he's mainly right. GT6 does have basically a better image processor (if that's what you want to call it) allowing for minute adjustments. In GT6 you actually take the photo and worry about the F-stop, shutter speed, exposure comp, focal length and so on. In FM5 if you don't increase the shutter speed while a car is in motion the photo will not have a sense of motion, it'll just seem like a still. When you increase the shutter speed the car will seem like it's moving. All FM5 does is blur the background if the main subject is moving when you have the shutter speed increased.
We all should know that if you're going to take a photo of a car moving in real life you'd have to have a slower shutter speed and you'd have to do tracking of the subject to achieve the feeling of motion. In GT6 you have to set the settings properly to get proper results. Anyone can go into FM5 and take a photo, and in GT6 you have to know what aperture, shutter speed, and focal length are in order to get anywhere; this is the main reason why you see mainly nice shots coming from GT6 because the majority of GT photographers have dealt with photography.
Even when you upload the photos of GT6 to Flickr they show the Exif data.
GT6 has a better photo mode in general. It doesn't use sliders instead it uses actual information you would need to know as if you were using a actual camera of real life. Does GT6 have better car models? Who cares? Does Forza have cartoonish lighting? Who cares? If you look at the title of this thread it is asking if the photo mode in GT6 is better than FM5, but as expected this just turned into a fight of who has tessellation and who has the best lighting. Not even the OP knows what they're mainly talking about. FM5 and GT6 have different ways they process lighting in photo mode, if you go to both and go in-game you'll find that some things in game don't reflect what is in photo mode, that can go for certain reflections and lighting.
I don't know if I'm completely right but I always found that GT5/6 images have more information for you to work with which is why images from the two games are edited so well. I feel like FM5 is limited, if you adjust the exposure, contrast, and other things in FM5 you're basically editing the photo. I haven't played much of GT6 but in GT5 they separated the actual photo filters from the photography.
Basically:
GT6 - You are taking a raw photo that has much more information.
FM5 - You are taking a photo, but it doesn't have the tools that can help replicate what taking a real photo is like.
Yes. I think this is one of the most relevant posts in this thread. Using GT5's camera actually taught me about those things (shutter speed, f-stop, etc.) and felt like a real camera, while Forza's always felt lacking since I'm just using sliders. Out of curiosity, if one posts a Forza image to a site like Flickr, is there any Exif info?
- 4,992
- Nowhere special
- SweetLilPoppet
- SweetLilPoppet
Okay, it might not have been the best word to use, but I wouldn't just disregard some very good points just because it's there.
When I say "cartoonish", I mean it seems deliberately fake. And at times Forza does strike as deliberately fake. So in this sense forza can be "cartoonish" (that is NOT a bad thing for me, I love forza
)
- 238
- Leicester,England
GT always seems to have captured that realism, the lighting engine on GT6 is very realistic especially when you get the car colour cascading into the backround, reflecting off it, which is what happens in the real world in bright sunlight, so in terms of the photo mode GT has a huge advantage over Forza, that lighting engine combined with the realistic camera functions is a clear winner.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
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- 1,427
- Italy
Honored? YOUR COMPARISON?!? you have stolen my work from a my old post
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...andard-cars-in-gt7.305998/page-4#post-9503584
shame of you!
- 858
- United Kingdom
- 216
It is easy to trick most people with these days with the photo mode pics as real pics.
This is old video of GT5P I have shown this to many and back then during that time they have mistaken it as real lol
Wow I'm flabbergusted!!! If someone had told me that it's GT7 leak I would have believed.. I have assetto Corsa and Pcars and none look ao good..
I also tried to replicated this in GT6 and the shadows were so blocky it was ugly to say the least..
- 16
- United Kingdom
Please tell me you are joking? Both reflections (inside and outside of the car) and shadows (incl. environmental self shadowing) are real-time and "dynamic" in FM5.
Meanwhile in GT6 reflections are "baked in" to the lighting engine.
Look at the reflection on the gear stick, generic baked reflection
Same with the steering wheel:
*I think these photos are great BTW, just wanted to point out that GT6 does not feature full dynamic reflections, unlike Forza.
I still go back and play Forza on Xbox and while it's a fun game, it clearly feels nothing like FM4, in fact each iteration feels completely different to the other.
- 1,427
- Italy
Please tell me you are joking? Both reflections (inside and outside of the car) and shadows (incl. environmental self shadowing) are real-time and "dynamic" in FM5.
Meanwhile in GT6 reflections are "baked in" to the lighting engine.
Look at the reflection on the gear stick, generic baked reflection
Same with the steering wheel:
*I think these photos are great BTW, just wanted to point out that GT6 does not feature full dynamic reflections, unlike Forza.
I still go back and play Forza on Xbox and while it's a fun game, it clearly feels nothing like FM4, in fact each iteration feels completely different to the other.
All reflection are in real-time and dynamic on GT6, what are you talking about?
Are you the same "cloudskipa" hater sony that spends all the day to throw poop on all GT6 videos and insult all the GT fans on youtube? https://plus.google.com/104140475620296841684/posts
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- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
Forza's reflections are faked and not real-time or dynamic. The reflections actually use the image frame of what's on your screen (and not the actual environment surrounding in the game) from a millisecond before what's currently actually happening, and then use that as a reflection on the cars. This is why you get opponent HUD's and driving line showing up on the hood of the car. It's much less resource taxing on the hardware. The only real-time shadowing is the car self shadows, which is the only shadow that moves across the environment. All other shadows are pre-baked, as is the lighting for the environments.
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- 28,317
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
I'm just going to point out: no, it does not.
EDIT: Well I'll be damned, it still mirrors the player tags. I never even noticed that until now.
EDIT: Well I'll be damned, it still mirrors the player tags. I never even noticed that until now.
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- 1,206
- South Africa
. . . . .your post is wrong in so many different ways. It astounds me.Please tell me you are joking? Both reflections (inside and outside of the car) and shadows (incl. environmental self shadowing) are real-time and "dynamic" in FM5.
Meanwhile in GT6 reflections are "baked in" to the lighting engine.
Look at the reflection on the gear stick, generic baked reflection
Same with the steering wheel:
*I think these photos are great BTW, just wanted to point out that GT6 does not feature full dynamic reflections, unlike Forza.
I still go back and play Forza on Xbox and while it's a fun game, it clearly feels nothing like FM4, in fact each iteration feels completely different to the other.
Im glad others have pointed it out to you.
- 4,998
- Val d'Orcia,Tuscany
- hardvibes
- ACR HardVibes
Please tell me you're jokingPlease tell me you are joking? Both reflections (inside and outside of the car) and shadows (incl. environmental self shadowing) are real-time and "dynamic" in FM5.
Meanwhile in GT6 reflections are "baked in" to the lighting engine.
Look at the reflection on the gear stick, generic baked reflection
Same with the steering wheel:
*I think these photos are great BTW, just wanted to point out that GT6 does not feature full dynamic reflections, unlike Forza.
I still go back and play Forza on Xbox and while it's a fun game, it clearly feels nothing like FM4, in fact each iteration feels completely different to the other.
busted!! He'll go directly into my ignore list
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- 14
- United Kingdom
Assuming this is the same guy. He's had a bad reputation as an xbox/forza fanboy on Eurogamer for years. A lot of his posts are hidden due to such low scores.
- 1,206
- South Africa
Im not going to judge. . . but, if thats him, what a sad way to spend ones time..
- 4,998
- Val d'Orcia,Tuscany
- hardvibes
- ACR HardVibes
Of course it's him... how many users called cloudskipa could bash playstation/gran turismo AND praise xbox/forza at the same time?
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- 238
- Leicester,England
It also has a point to the thread @ImaRobot, unlike childish comparisons and wanting interior shots just to be pedantic. The thread is about GT6's photomode looking better than Forza 5. GT6 as a whole, regardless of photomode looks better than Forza 5 because of it's lighting. My latest points, as well as ones earlier on in the thread are all relevant to the thread. Mocking or not.
@TokoTurismo, Nicely backed out of that one, but I seen your first comment before you removed it so I'm answering it nonetheless.
If you turn down the brightness on Forza you won't see your game at all.
Once they sort out the 'LOOK IT IT!!!" lighting they always do in their games, the game as a whole will look more realistic to me and thus equalizing the gap between the two. For me personally.
Agreed, the lighting engine is the winning factor, very realistic, even down to the colour reflecting off the car onto the backround, quite spectacular seeing as its on PS3, amazing really.
- 4,122
- United States
Undercover work? Animals covering their eyes, ears, and mouths? Sounds like a GT vs FM thread.
- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
The baked reflections in PS3 GTs are not a secret, drive any car with a chromed wheel rim and it'll will reflect everything but not the immediate objects such as the driver himself, the seats or the window edges. In fact, when it does try to reflect what's going on in the world in real time such as the dynamic weather you only see a pixelated mess. Drive the SLS AMG on the hood view for example.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
You are talking about ray-tracing, no game does that in real time, not even the top PC graphic cards have the power to render graphics like that.
In fact Forza 5 is the game with more baked effects and graphical shortcuts with difference. Almost nothing is real time calculated in that game.
Note the static reflections in all car components in cockpit view compared with the real-time environment dependent reflections in GT6. FM5 uses the same cheaper render solution as the old Forzas, a simple 2D generic reflection map.
The shadows are also not 3D projected but 2D pre-rendered.
Compare with GT6 how even the player car does not cast any shadow over other cars.
Anyone that knowns a little about graphics will tell that FM5 use a very basic engine, specially for a game that runs in a much more powerful hardware than PS3.
- 16
- United Kingdom
- 16
- United Kingdom
Forza's reflections are faked and not real-time or dynamic. The reflections actually use the image frame of what's on your screen (and not the actual environment surrounding in the game) from a millisecond before what's currently actually happening, and then use that as a reflection on the cars. This is why you get opponent HUD's and driving line showing up on the hood of the car. It's much less resource taxing on the hardware. The only real-time shadowing is the car self shadows, which is the only shadow that moves across the environment. All other shadows are pre-baked, as is the lighting for the environments.
Yes from bonnet view it works like that but not from third person external car view which dynamically reflects the entire environment via Image Based Lighting (at lower fps when engine is under stress). It features dynamic windshield reflections of dash objects, driver and wheel too. Also the environment features dynamic self shadowing with cones, signs and any other moveable object including those huge inflatables and removable car parts strewn on track. Will be interesting to see how Horizon 2 incorporates this tech given how good the original Horizon was in terms of dynamic lighting, reflections and shadowing.
FM5 is not using a "basic engine" when everything as a whole is taken into account, including the damage, AI, track detail, livery editor, frame rate, image consistency (eg. screen tear, shadow flicker) and sound. GT6 has many, many compromises by comparison.
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- 1,130
- Mexico City
- ppmike921
- MikeB0ssMan
@Zer0 Is that a bad thing though? I don't know much about graphics but are we saying that all developers need to waste resources on complex engines just to get our approval? The game looks good everywhere and everytime. GT5/6 looks good at times but other it looks worse than the first Forzas despite PD having almost 10 years of experience with the PS3.
If a basic engine allows Forza to have better AI, physics, sounds, damage, environments and locked 60 fps then I don't see the problem unless this is just a useless pissing contest.
If a basic engine allows Forza to have better AI, physics, sounds, damage, environments and locked 60 fps then I don't see the problem unless this is just a useless pissing contest.
- 6,917
- United Kingdom
It will be interesting to see how much more they can improve for Forza 6 given they already using 100% off the console performance with a lot of compromises needed to hit 1080p and sort of 60FPS framerate. Will they able to push some of the graphical effects GT6 pushes and have as advanced photo mode feature to catch up in this department?
Another thing GT6 has huge advantage of is ability to save as many replays as you want while Forza 5, I think I was up to 6 replays or something like that and then was not allowed to save without overwriting which I found very restricting after being used to recent GT games and rFactor where I've yet to hit any limit to that, only storage capacity I've seen that could limit it so far.
Another thing GT6 has huge advantage of is ability to save as many replays as you want while Forza 5, I think I was up to 6 replays or something like that and then was not allowed to save without overwriting which I found very restricting after being used to recent GT games and rFactor where I've yet to hit any limit to that, only storage capacity I've seen that could limit it so far.
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Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
The topic is about photomode/graphics. And yes, all the cuts and graphical patches are a very bad thing if you expect a jump in the next Forza to have real-time day-night environment changes, night racing with real-time headlights and shadows, and real-time weather with realistic effects. All that, at the same 1080/60 of FM5 and without any real-time unavoidable glitches, as seen in GT5, GT6 or pc sims.
If the next Forza keeps going in the same baked path and none real-time features are added then is not a bad thing if you don't care about realistic graphics or the above gameplay features, except of being ashamed to not being able to match what other developer had achieved in a more limited hardware almost seven years back. They even needed to downgrade the FM5 graphics from the first E3 gameplay demos.
There are some minimal graphical features expected in a new generation game, specially if is a flagship game sold by its super-realistic graphics and used as an example of the power of the console.Even the uber-realistic Pc sims are trying to push graphics this time, it's a natural evolution. Forza does need to update a lot of things if they want to compete and get some relevance in the future, as simple as that.
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
The fake reflections work like that from all views, and it also seems you don't know what image based lighting is. It has nothing to do with giving real-time or dynamic reflections, if that was even the case then you wouldn't see opponent car tags on your reflections. IBL also applies to the whole game, not just in 3rd person cam. And what you're saying doesn't even make any sense (that "Image Based Lighting comes into play at lower fps when engine is under stress"), considering Forza 5 is 60fps in both hood cam and chase cam.
IBL is just a way for the devs to use high dynamic range images to closer match the car lighting with the environment, and T10 does this by lighting the cars with IBL based on the pre-baked environment surroundings. It's a cheat to imitate global illumination, while not providing the advantages real-time global illumination offers (such as dynamic lighting). This really isn't all that new and games have been doing it for years even before Forza 4's release. Forza's lighting and shadows are still pre-baked, IBL just allows for the car lighting to match up more closely with the environment lighting.
If you still really think Forza has dynamic environmental shadows, then why doesn't Forza offer time change? Minor objects that move that have their own shadow, like the car, doesn't mean the environment shadows are dynamic. All of the trees shadows, building shadows, etc. are all baked. Even in Forza 4 where T10 created different time of day for tracks, all of the shadow placement were in the exact same spot, regardless if it was morning or dusk. The environment shadows aren't real, they're a baked texture that doesn't move, which is why Forza 5 doesn't allow this:
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- Ohio
- jimmyfoxhound
Don't mean to be nitpicky but the one thing that just bugs the heck out of me is how the interior reflections reflect the road even though it's inside the car (look at the outer ring of the speedometer/tach dials, you can see the red/white rumble strips reflecting in them) I wish PD could sort that out!
I've never played Forza so I guess I shouldn't say which is better but the photo mode in GT is one thing it really gets right except in a few areas. I heard Forza lets you control the replay (rewind a bit to get another shot?) If that is true that is a BIG advantage over GT photo mode. That's the one thing that just drives me a bit crazy, if you want to 'rewind' to get another picture you have to restart the whole replay! I think PD should figure out a way to have a rewind option for photo mode to make it a bit easier to get the pics you want.
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