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- Moglet
is GT6's photo mode better than Forza 5?
- Thread starter bashfulboson
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Aussie_HSV
(Banned)
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I'm not fussed regarding who thinks which photomode is better of the two.
But to suggest neither of them are 'even remotely' life-like is a ridiculous statement.
- 4,771
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- GO6DoRiFUt0
- gtun3d
Here's the thing.
IMO, Forza 5 can look better generally despite having a more "basic" photomode, but GT6 has provided a realistic DSLR feel, but very lack luster straight from console pictures majority of the time. But this thread is supposed to be Photomode vs Photomode. Even though even I've brought up the Lighting too, it's not really about that, that's more of a graphical debate. GT6 does have it's moments, but that's it. It's Moments. But with this thread being brought up, it made me realize something.
I'm obviously a huge Driveclub supporter, fanboy, whatever. But Driveclub managed to merge both Forza 5's simplicity with GT6's DSLR settings.
As much as I still love GT5/6's Photomode controls that were near perfection (for me, that's the best thing PD has ever done) I still really like DC's. The focusing can be tough sometimes, but still provides a hell of a lot of control like GT6, but Forza's simplicity of sliders, and can create some absolutely stunningly realistic shots straight from game. The little touches like realistic lens flares from the sun (the sun is actually a circle too!) and lens dust is great, even though annoying at times.
While DC hasn't made a huge leap in terms of a killer photomode feature it's self, it adds a lot of cool features like the filters with varying intensity, bokeh shapes, and frames like a Letterbox and Vignette, and the 1/30th shutter speed we all prayed for in GT6. (GT7 needs to have below 1/30 imo. I remember those FT-1 Shots you teased us with Kaz you 🤬 )
IMO, Forza 5 can look better generally despite having a more "basic" photomode, but GT6 has provided a realistic DSLR feel, but very lack luster straight from console pictures majority of the time. But this thread is supposed to be Photomode vs Photomode. Even though even I've brought up the Lighting too, it's not really about that, that's more of a graphical debate. GT6 does have it's moments, but that's it. It's Moments. But with this thread being brought up, it made me realize something.
I'm obviously a huge Driveclub supporter, fanboy, whatever. But Driveclub managed to merge both Forza 5's simplicity with GT6's DSLR settings.
As much as I still love GT5/6's Photomode controls that were near perfection (for me, that's the best thing PD has ever done) I still really like DC's. The focusing can be tough sometimes, but still provides a hell of a lot of control like GT6, but Forza's simplicity of sliders, and can create some absolutely stunningly realistic shots straight from game. The little touches like realistic lens flares from the sun (the sun is actually a circle too!) and lens dust is great, even though annoying at times.
While DC hasn't made a huge leap in terms of a killer photomode feature it's self, it adds a lot of cool features like the filters with varying intensity, bokeh shapes, and frames like a Letterbox and Vignette, and the 1/30th shutter speed we all prayed for in GT6. (GT7 needs to have below 1/30 imo. I remember those FT-1 Shots you teased us with Kaz you 🤬 )
- 8,719
The 1/60 limit is because the game runs at 1/60 second intervals... Just like DC's is 1/30 because it's 30 Hz. There must be a reason neither game can break that limit on-track. Of course, GT has offered longer shutter times since GT4, but only in photo travel areas (scripted animations only), so it's obviously something subtle.
GT4 used to have a separate vignetting control, I wonder what happened to that. There is no difference between having sliders and "real" numbers; some of the sliders are visible (zoom), but most simply aren't. The controls are the same: navigate to the item and adjust with the d-pad / stick until it looks how you want it to. I notice that DC only has three sliders anyway...
It would be nice to get more hardware options, like digital, film type etc. as "filters" (much as the "miniature" filter is implemented). I don't much care for all that dirty instagram stuff, though, but I understand that it's very fashionable right now.
I primarily want ultra-wide-angle lenses "fixing"; however, there is an issue with the way basic rasterisers work (namely the so-called near clipping plane; see here). You simply can't get close enough without the geometry of interest being clipped out, which is how the interior "glitch" shots work. Wide angle shots don't work unless you're really close
I think the shutter speed and aperture size ought to actually mean something for image brightness, too, if indeed we are actually specificying them and they are not being secretly adjusted to meet the "exposure level" required. If they are locked, it seems like the "ISO setting" (/ "film speed", in respect of the "filters" above) is automatically adjusted to give the same "exposed" result, but with a perfectly smooth gradient and no degradation at either extreme.
In the game, locking the "automatic exposure" (actually the HDR calculations) helps, but there's no way to directly adjust it without finding a part of the scene that gives you the exposure level you want and locking it there, via trial and error. The manual adjustment of the "exposure compensation" setting obviously doesn't do what I want it to do much of the time for me to need to use those "tricks".
I'd also like to see a "human eye" mode, to complement the "hardware filters", especially for glare effects, HDR, focal length etc. (think Morpheus...)
So far it seems that other developers are simply playing copycat; nothing really technically innovative, just picking the low-hanging fruit to flesh out the framework already set before them. Whilst the usability and feature expansion is nice to have, do the difficult stuff as well!
GT4 used to have a separate vignetting control, I wonder what happened to that. There is no difference between having sliders and "real" numbers; some of the sliders are visible (zoom), but most simply aren't. The controls are the same: navigate to the item and adjust with the d-pad / stick until it looks how you want it to. I notice that DC only has three sliders anyway...
It would be nice to get more hardware options, like digital, film type etc. as "filters" (much as the "miniature" filter is implemented). I don't much care for all that dirty instagram stuff, though, but I understand that it's very fashionable right now.
I primarily want ultra-wide-angle lenses "fixing"; however, there is an issue with the way basic rasterisers work (namely the so-called near clipping plane; see here). You simply can't get close enough without the geometry of interest being clipped out, which is how the interior "glitch" shots work. Wide angle shots don't work unless you're really close
I think the shutter speed and aperture size ought to actually mean something for image brightness, too, if indeed we are actually specificying them and they are not being secretly adjusted to meet the "exposure level" required. If they are locked, it seems like the "ISO setting" (/ "film speed", in respect of the "filters" above) is automatically adjusted to give the same "exposed" result, but with a perfectly smooth gradient and no degradation at either extreme.
In the game, locking the "automatic exposure" (actually the HDR calculations) helps, but there's no way to directly adjust it without finding a part of the scene that gives you the exposure level you want and locking it there, via trial and error. The manual adjustment of the "exposure compensation" setting obviously doesn't do what I want it to do much of the time for me to need to use those "tricks".
I'd also like to see a "human eye" mode, to complement the "hardware filters", especially for glare effects, HDR, focal length etc. (think Morpheus...)
So far it seems that other developers are simply playing copycat; nothing really technically innovative, just picking the low-hanging fruit to flesh out the framework already set before them. Whilst the usability and feature expansion is nice to have, do the difficult stuff as well!
- 10,956
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nvm
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- 14,435
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Which still has to do with what I had posted, really.
Not really much difference really, although FM5's allows for more flexibility.
I'm not exactly sure how to respond to this. how is it trying to look cool? Neither is tricking my eyes, I'm going in full well knowing that its a video game. Them being video games is what makes them look like video games.
- 3,709
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- Philip-Giger
- 3,709
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- Philip-Giger
- 14,435
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- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
The only thing "real life" about these pics, is that the track is actually real. Everything from area's being sharp instead of rounded, flat trees, to the way the markings on the ground look like someone went over the picture with paint and scribbled. When you know what to look for, its easily distinguishable, and its actually the little things that throw it off. I agree though, if you're walking by and you're not really paying attention to it, but see it through your peripherals, it would be pretty convincing.
- 28,317
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
- 243
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- amazeCRAZE
GT6's photomode eclipses Forza.
Forza's Autovista is definitely striking, but my problem is that they put little effort into smaller details. For example, on some of these photos, the headlights, even when off, just look like stickers. Most notably on the track renderings. However, Forza has an awful lighting system in comparison to GT6, and while Forza has generally better quality in the body of the cars themselves, the lighting is just so bad in comparison it barely evens out. For an example of what I mean about the lighting, just look at the RX-7 and BRZ photos on the first few pages. The BRZ's DRLs in Forza look like a fuzzy Photoshop texture, and the RX-7s just look downright fake.
That said, I'd rank the photo modes as such:
Forza Autovista > GT6 > Forza anywhere else.
I still think Driveclub has the best photo mode of any racing game, period.
Forza's Autovista is definitely striking, but my problem is that they put little effort into smaller details. For example, on some of these photos, the headlights, even when off, just look like stickers. Most notably on the track renderings. However, Forza has an awful lighting system in comparison to GT6, and while Forza has generally better quality in the body of the cars themselves, the lighting is just so bad in comparison it barely evens out. For an example of what I mean about the lighting, just look at the RX-7 and BRZ photos on the first few pages. The BRZ's DRLs in Forza look like a fuzzy Photoshop texture, and the RX-7s just look downright fake.
That said, I'd rank the photo modes as such:
Forza Autovista > GT6 > Forza anywhere else.
I still think Driveclub has the best photo mode of any racing game, period.
- 14,435
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- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
What you're rating is not the photomode at all.
I do agree that GT's brake/tail lights are great, though. Still I get that the lighting is not dynamic, but it is in no way horrible.
The BRZ is like that because it is taking in a tunnel, and someone bumped the exposure over the top.
- 2,810
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- stigsdaddy
Nail on the head
- 3,709
- São Paulo
- Philip-Giger
I agree with all the 'theory'... but we are comparing the real life 'through' the TV... so, in one look-in this picture-the real life is not 'too good'...
- 4,771
- New York
- GO6DoRiFUt0
- gtun3d
Either way, 1/30th is still closer to what we want in lower shutter speeds. The game still runs smoothly and looks fantastic.
I never said there was a difference between sliders and "real numbers" They both still do the job, just the sliders are more player friendly while GT's was more realistic based. The real thing I don't understand is "DC only has 3 sliders" What does that mean exactly?
Everything but the Monochromes and maybe Cool/Warm in GT5 and 6 were absolute trash imo. Especially their fake and horribly toned "cross processing". DC has a few unique filters and are actually more geared towards how some of edit our shots with slight shadow and highlight tones. Not to mention the intensity variation can really help, and actually be used to correct a slightly off white balance with the warm/cool options, where in GT5 and 6 (perhaps console limitations, i'll give PD that) you were stuck with whatever you were given, which were often a massive pain to correct. Especially the night tracks.
The realism of that may sound pretty cool of aperture and shutter speed being realistic and affecting the exposure, but it'd just be a headache and take away the fun of a photomode.
Where's the fun of taking a f/1.2 shot of a car in on a sunny day (cause PD don't seem to believe in clouds and soft lighting that much...) only to realize that even at 1/8000th it'll still be blown out and nearly impossible? The last thing I'd want to do is have a game replicate something that irritates the living hell out of me, just digitally.
This line was the kicker for me. Too bad T10 and Evolution Studios didn't add such revolutionary things that PD did with GT6.
Oh wait. They added 2 new equally horrible filters and the ability to shoot another car in photo travel which brings the framerate to PS2 level just about. Good idea, horrible execution.
There's not much to "technically innovate" when it comes to a photomode on a console game. Assetto Corsa and PCars' Photomode on PC is something of magic really. Changeable lighting, HDR triggerable, studio locations with positionable lighting, and a massive range, even better than GT5/6's of zoom and wide angle, and free roam positioning.
That's amazing really. Driveclub IMO has some of the best Bokeh rendering I've seen in a game, even PCMASTERRACE owners have been impressed, but that may be more of a rendering/graphical debate, not photomode.
PD may of pioneered it with GT4, but as with a lot else they've done, they're being beat by others at their own game.
- 8,719
Yes, longer shutter times are desirable. I don't think the framerate should suffer for it, though. I'm saying there must be a technical reason neither game goes longer than a game tick for in-race photos.
We agree that there's no difference. I was just confused that DC was offered as an example of sliders, when most of the important settings are discrete switches with no visual feedback of extents. Perhaps I misunderstood.
Better filters would be nice, as I said.
Not if the auto mode remains! 💡
Far less irritating if you're not actually wasting film... Could be a nice learning tool.
OK. I was talking about GT4 onwards, not the latest differences. Clearly it hasn't changed much from GT5 to GT6. But it's quite likely those other games wouldn't have dedicated photo modes of any note if it weren't for GT4. Also, settle down, do.
Yes, I've played with PCars'. The extra features would be nice on consoles, too.
Yes, it's just a filter. You can do some expensive convolution (effectively replacing each pixel with a particular boke alias) if you've not got a time target (1/30 s) to worry about. I'd like to see something more like the human eye does (as an option), as I mentioned.
In some respects, sure; but it's easier to follow than to be the first.
I do hope that, collectively, the idea can continue to be improved over time. That's more interesting to me.
- 16,176
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- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Having a simple interface doesn't necessarily mean that the photomode is better.
- 63
- sydney
Well, this thread has a giant elephant sitting in the room sipping tea and reading the paper: Comparing PS3 to xbox 1. Not only is PS3 more realistic and crisp in the lighting but detail is much higher (yes yes premiums/standards etc who cares) I played forza and it is fun, I just feel as if T10 is building a game and PD is building art. the professionalism really shows here, lets face it gt6's shortcummings are due to this strive for perfection, aiming high, its the biggest strength and biggest weakness. When PD gets it right they really blow everything else out of the water (my opinion). Evidence is clear as day..
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- Johnnypenso
...or the opposite...
- 28,317
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
So, we went from comparing photo modes (which very few are actually doing) to comparing.... software engines? A sentiment, as you've worded it, that is unequivocally wrong?
Considering they're both building games, you've taken an opinion, which you're rightfully entitled to, and are almost presenting it as fact.
Wait, what?
Seriously, what?
FastFurious77
Premium
- 1,823
- England
Listen carefully guys gt6 photo mode better than forza 5? this question can not be answered purely because of other factors going on in both games physics and lighting engines which hinders both games in their own way. This is how. Read on.
I'm trying to point out facts here which make each game better than the other in certain aspects and not in others. Also I'm a trying to point out that the real time things going on with lighting and modelling is the reason for Photo mode looking better in some aspects. Because the photo mode captures everything happening in real time.
1. GT6 and Forza 5 both have different grades of quality in car modelling department. It's hard to say. Some cars headlights on Forza 5 might look like stickers but so does GT6 with its poorest models look the same. You will find that actually the headlights are very detailed and are 3d looking on most of Forza 5's cars with shape and form to them. This is not to say the best GT6 models also have very high detail 3d looking model headlights too. This affects how photo mode looks.
Don't forget that the Forza 5's off track Forza vista models are much higher resolution that Forza 5 in game on track models. So taking photos in Forza Vista mode is a no brainer vs GT6's photo travel or off track photos just simply do not capture the modeling of the car aswell off track as Forza 5 does. The difference might not seem big but it is which is down to next gen obviously.
2. GT6 has a better working lighting model as part of the real time in game lighting engine. Everything going on in real time affects the photo mode massively because the photo mode captures all the real time lighting. Forza 5 doesn't have a proper working lighting model that works in real time in game like GT6. Hence why of course GT6 is going to appear to look better in this area. This too affects the look of photo mode.
Another part of it is how GT6 makes the lighting look more natural, again its part of the whole physics engine and lighting model which works to better effect than Forza 5. Forza 5 doesn't tend to look natural and can be over saturated with more colour and more contrast in game on the track. The reason for this is unknown but Forza 4 was also well over contrast and over saturated with colour over natural. Maybe its to compensate for the lack of a proper lighting model that does not work in real time. All of this affects how photo mode will look.
Review on what has been said here.
Both of these factors are BIG in comparing GT6 to Forza 5 in photo mode. You could quite easily take any model in GT6 and show off the graphical details to worse effect than Forza 5 does on track. Alternatively you can take any car in GT6 and show off the lighting engine to much better effect than Forza 5 does because it doesn't have a proper good working lighting engine.
What makes photo mode more impressive for each game is how the whole virtual world is modeled around the cars aswell. I think Forza is better with some tracks not with others when compared to GT6 when it comes to detail of roads, but then trees and spectators and other visual details make GT6 less realistic than Forza. Forza should be hands down better when it comes to track modelling and graphics over GT6.
You have to bare in mind Forza 5 was a rushed game and a first gen game is always worse looking. The difference in Forza 3-4 was massive leap. I'm sure as Forza 6 and 7 with working lighting models and even higher resolution on track cars we will see a massive difference. The same is true of Gt7 over last gen games like GT6. But of course this is obvious, and GT6 really does an amazing job for an old aging console.
I'm trying to point out facts here which make each game better than the other in certain aspects and not in others. Also I'm a trying to point out that the real time things going on with lighting and modelling is the reason for Photo mode looking better in some aspects. Because the photo mode captures everything happening in real time.
1. GT6 and Forza 5 both have different grades of quality in car modelling department. It's hard to say. Some cars headlights on Forza 5 might look like stickers but so does GT6 with its poorest models look the same. You will find that actually the headlights are very detailed and are 3d looking on most of Forza 5's cars with shape and form to them. This is not to say the best GT6 models also have very high detail 3d looking model headlights too. This affects how photo mode looks.
Don't forget that the Forza 5's off track Forza vista models are much higher resolution that Forza 5 in game on track models. So taking photos in Forza Vista mode is a no brainer vs GT6's photo travel or off track photos just simply do not capture the modeling of the car aswell off track as Forza 5 does. The difference might not seem big but it is which is down to next gen obviously.
2. GT6 has a better working lighting model as part of the real time in game lighting engine. Everything going on in real time affects the photo mode massively because the photo mode captures all the real time lighting. Forza 5 doesn't have a proper working lighting model that works in real time in game like GT6. Hence why of course GT6 is going to appear to look better in this area. This too affects the look of photo mode.
Another part of it is how GT6 makes the lighting look more natural, again its part of the whole physics engine and lighting model which works to better effect than Forza 5. Forza 5 doesn't tend to look natural and can be over saturated with more colour and more contrast in game on the track. The reason for this is unknown but Forza 4 was also well over contrast and over saturated with colour over natural. Maybe its to compensate for the lack of a proper lighting model that does not work in real time. All of this affects how photo mode will look.
Review on what has been said here.
Both of these factors are BIG in comparing GT6 to Forza 5 in photo mode. You could quite easily take any model in GT6 and show off the graphical details to worse effect than Forza 5 does on track. Alternatively you can take any car in GT6 and show off the lighting engine to much better effect than Forza 5 does because it doesn't have a proper good working lighting engine.
What makes photo mode more impressive for each game is how the whole virtual world is modeled around the cars aswell. I think Forza is better with some tracks not with others when compared to GT6 when it comes to detail of roads, but then trees and spectators and other visual details make GT6 less realistic than Forza. Forza should be hands down better when it comes to track modelling and graphics over GT6.
You have to bare in mind Forza 5 was a rushed game and a first gen game is always worse looking. The difference in Forza 3-4 was massive leap. I'm sure as Forza 6 and 7 with working lighting models and even higher resolution on track cars we will see a massive difference. The same is true of Gt7 over last gen games like GT6. But of course this is obvious, and GT6 really does an amazing job for an old aging console.
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- 10,956
- Canada
I like how the GT fans are quick to always go off topic and into this whole "Oh look at these graphix, see GT6 is better and realistic" when that is not what the subject is about. The subject (the main point of this entire thread) is finding out which photomode in both games is better, and IMO I'm going with Forza's, only because it's simple to use and not as complicated as GT's options in its photomode. And NO, I am not "fanboying" about Forza either like many like to assume, because there are some things I like about GT's photomode, but due to it being sometimes too complicated for me, that's why my vote goes to Forza, especially for the fact that it's user-friendly as well.
This is coming from a person who's actually played both games and is very honest in what he's saying. I hope others respect that and NOT just attack me like always every time I show up on here. It shouldn't matter if a game is "realistic looking" or not, as long as its photomode is "easy to use" than that's all that matters for me and others.
This is coming from a person who's actually played both games and is very honest in what he's saying. I hope others respect that and NOT just attack me like always every time I show up on here. It shouldn't matter if a game is "realistic looking" or not, as long as its photomode is "easy to use" than that's all that matters for me and others.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
Sorry but that's the subject of this topic:
"even though Forza 5 is next gen, GT6 still looks more realistic in terms of lighting"
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Stylel_Code
(Banned)
- 344
- France
- stylel-soheib
I don't understand why you treat the ones discussing about GT6's photomode as "fanboys" (GT fans highly suggests you're using that word). In no way are they "fanboys", they are simply discussing and why not, bring a picture from the game itself (since the subject is about photomode) to support what they're claiming. I think you're trying not to look like the one you're claiming not to be, but you look like it as you treat those who talk about GT6's photomode as the "fanboys"
I am sure you're happy with the forza's photomode because it's "easy" (Imo i don't understand how it can be easier than GT6's one without removing other options since I don't have Forza) but the thing is, we are comparing both photomode, and I don't think which one is more "user-friendly" is very relevant since it is only a personnal judgement.
Right now the comparison is going good about the features and all. I don't have Forza 5 but if I had it I would bring some comparison shots.
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