Is PCARS as Good as GT6?

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Yeah I was doing two lap races in solo mode at Lemans in the G40. 56 cars and me starting at the back with a rolling start. Those 2 chicanes before the start line are quite an adventure to survive if you stay on track. Once you get into the race a little then things calm down some but still tricky when there is a chicane or tight corner with several cars in the area.
 
I don't know about completely bug free but it stands to reason that the PC version which has been tested by hundreds of WMD members will launch with far less issues than the console versions which have only been available to a few internal testers prior to release.

The term "internal testers" must a very loose term for a couple of guys that sat around, drank beer, ate Doritos and smoked weed for a couple hours. I see no evidence that they actually did any testing on the PS4 game :-( This many bugs certainly can't have been missed by any competent tester.
 
Yeah I was doing two lap races in solo mode at Lemans in the G40. 56 cars and me starting at the back with a rolling start. Those 2 chicanes before the start line are quite an adventure to survive if you stay on track. Once you get into the race a little then things calm down some but still tricky when there is a chicane or tight corner with several cars in the area.

Wait to see the AI try the chicane onto the main straight at Monza short course. It is a bottleneck! Three quarters of the field jam themselves in there and don't even finish the race
 
Wait to see the AI try the chicane onto the main straight at Monza short course. It is a bottleneck! Three quarters of the field jam themselves in there and don't even finish the race
That's a *real* bug, not only the AI global behavior. That for sure will be fixed quickly.


I laughed hard when I saw the car pack, I wasn't expecting that much :lol:
Who races on Monza short layout anyway ? :D
 
How do you know, you didn't attempt long races yet ? :P
I did several, from 2h up to 7h+ (had to retire :grumpy:). By "game failure" I don't mean game freeze or so only ! There are plenty of minor bugs to chose from and if you still manage to carry on with these, the suicidal AI will probably ruin it at some point, obviously the longer the race, the higher the risk. To the point that I currently stopped my career mode in endurance waiting for a patch now.
I'm a bit exaggerating though, it's very random, it was just a banter basically. :D

Is the PC version really bug-free ? I hardly believe it.

No way, I have the PC version. I haven't really bothered with career mode yet. I have simply driven in free practice mode, a couple of thousand miles I'm surprised to admit.

I have attempted a few quick races though and encountered the following issues...

  • Any tyre wear acceleration really screws up the AI as well as your own experience of tyre heat.
  • Qualifying times are almost incidental since there appears to be a 50% chance I will be placed at the back regardless of the results of 30 minutes qualifying.
  • The AI seem utterly incapable of driving certain circuits, Azure in particular.
I have experienced many other bugs.

Do I wish it was better (less buggy): Yes. There is a lot to fix

Do I regret buying the game? No, the driving (physics & FFB) and the weather are fabulous

Is it better than GT6: On the points I care about, it would be hard to be worse. Bugs and all it is in a different league from GT5 (I didn't buy GT6 so maybe it was such a huge departure from GT5 that my opinion doesn't count? You decide)
 
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The term "internal testers" must a very loose term for a couple of guys that sat around, drank beer, ate Doritos and smoked weed for a couple hours. I see no evidence that they actually did any testing on the PS4 game :-( This many bugs certainly can't have been missed by any competent tester.
Testers can only report bugs, they aren't responsible for or qualified to fix them.

Slightly Mad Studios ran out of time to fix and implement everything they wanted to fix or implement, and as I understand it, they had no funding to delay the game again. They very much found themselves between a rock and a hard place. If there's any fault in this, it's SMS's ambition or lack of time management skills; take your pick.
 
The term "internal testers" must a very loose term for a couple of guys that sat around, drank beer, ate Doritos and smoked weed for a couple hours. I see no evidence that they actually did any testing on the PS4 game :-( This many bugs certainly can't have been missed by any competent tester
:lol::lol::lol:
 
The term "internal testers" must a very loose term for a couple of guys that sat around, drank beer, ate Doritos and smoked weed for a couple hours. I see no evidence that they actually did any testing on the PS4 game :-( This many bugs certainly can't have been missed by any competent tester.
I'm playing the Xbox version so compared to our problems I'm afraid your complaints about PS4 seem like a distant whine in comparison. I'd be a lot more bothered about the launch problems if the developers had taken a "tough break, we already have your money" attitude like (say) Criterion did when Burnout Paradise was released and hardly anybody had broadband connections in order to take advantage of the game. They haven't and I'm confident that they're doing everything possible to rectify the situation so far short of putting a gun to MS's head and saying "release the damn patch already".

TL;DR version: Lack of AI tuning is not a bug or at least not the kind that can be fixed without mass testing. Failure to utilise 100% of stick movement on joypad is.
 
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I can firmly say that after playing PCARS, my anticipation for the next GT/Forza Motorsports entries has dropped severely. Even if both show significant improvement in the physics department, the lack of any real "racing" makes it less impactful.

I guess PCARS is the console game I've been waiting for.
 
I can firmly say that after playing PCARS, my anticipation for the next GT/Forza Motorsports entries has dropped severely. Even if both show significant improvement in the physics department, the lack of any real "racing" makes it less impactful.

I guess PCARS is the console game I've been waiting for.
the lack of any real "racing" makes it less impactful.
real "racing"



NO WAIT ! Don't throw rocks at me, don't take it too seriously I'm just kidding :D
 
I am still really excited for Forza 6 and GT7 because they will fill a different type of gap! I love having a huge amount of cars from automotive history to thrash around. 👍
I can firmly say that after playing PCARS, my anticipation for the next GT/Forza Motorsports entries has dropped severely. Even if both show significant improvement in the physics department, the lack of any real "racing" makes it less impactful.

I guess PCARS is the console game I've been waiting for.
 
I thought it was fair as I have seen much harsh reviews.

It's not about whether he was harsh or not. There are many things in pCARS that are worth criticising. He did a reasonable job of a review in his "good" and "bad" sections. He rightly notes the bugs and the confusing menus as points against the game.

But then his "ugly" section pretty much consists of "this game isn't like GT/Forza, and so that's bad". Which is bollocks.

For example, the car list. Sure the game would be better with more cars. I don't see how this is a point either way, the game is how it is because that's what they could afford to make. Same as GT1, and GT3, and FM5. Everyone wants more, but the real question that usually goes unanswered is "is it enough content that the player doesn't run out of things to do?" People are going to have different responses to that.

When someone's criticism of the car list is "a car game has to have Ferrari", I'm not going to take them seriously. There are so many great car games without Ferrari that the statement is laughable. Among them, early Gran Turismos.

He says there's no progression system. He's flat out wrong. You get to start wherever you want, and progress from there. You choose whether you want to play zero-to-hero (ie. full progression mode) or whether you want to start higher up. He even says the option to start anywhere you like is great, but he would rather have everyone locked into the style of play that he likes the most. Ooookay.

He complains that seasons are long and there's no way to jump between them. We have adjustable race length and difficulty, and the ability to skip or simulate races. If you want to smash a season out fast, you totally can. If you just want to drive something else, you can start a new career and jump straight to it. If you want to have everything on the one save, you're going to have to earn your way there. Which sounds suspiciously like the progression that he was complaining that was lacking before.

He complains that there's no upgrading. That's intentional. The racing is designed to be in equal machinery. This is not GT/FM where you take a car, tune it until it's overpowered and then smash the competition.

He mentions that the tuning system is very weak. He's flat out wrong. It's the most powerful tuning system on any console sim.

He then compares it to games like GT/FM and says it's going to get old fast because all there is to do is win races. Hence why I say he's missed the point.

This is not GT. It is not FM. He wants a game with lots of stuff to collect and unlock. That is what feels like progression to him, and that's not what pCARS provides. pCARS gives you all the tools you need to have endless amounts of fun pretending you're a real racing driver, having real races against competitive opponents, working your way up the motorsports ladder if that's your thing.

It's like me saying GTA V is a bad game because the racing is awful. It's true, but it would be to totally miss the point of what GTA V is trying to do. It's not supposed to be a good racing game, it aims to provide a different experience entirely.

Same with pCARS. There are things that can be compared between it and GT/FM, but it is not a car collecting game. It is not Pimp My Ride: Console Edition. It is pure racing, and it's better compared to things like F1 2014 and F1:CE, or games like GT Legends or GTR2 on PC.

I'm sticking with my assessment that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's misjudged the game by attempting to compare it to two other games in ways in which they are incomparable.
 
It's not necessarily lacking but I wouldn't be against a Ferrari in the GT3/GTE class though. And the Corvette. :D

Oh, I'd love them too. For a motorsport game Ferrari and Porsche would be super awesome. But if you're doing an honest review, then that's really all you can say.

If he wanted to give his viewers some background info then he could go into the reasons why the Porsche and Ferrari licenses are so laden with baggage, and are so tough to get. But no, Ferrari are necessary in a car game. :rolleyes:

I suspect that if there's another pCARS game, then they'll work on getting complete fields for all types of motorsport that they feature. Or as complete as they can, Porsche is probably never going to be an option, but at least they can dupe with RUF-a-likes.
 
Oh, I'd love them too. For a motorsport game Ferrari and Porsche would be super awesome. But if you're doing an honest review, then that's really all you can say.

If he wanted to give his viewers some background info then he could go into the reasons why the Porsche and Ferrari licenses are so laden with baggage, and are so tough to get. But no, Ferrari are necessary in a car game. :rolleyes:

I suspect that if there's another pCARS game, then they'll work on getting complete fields for all types of motorsport that they feature. Or as complete as they can, Porsche is probably never going to be an option, but at least they can dupe with RUF-a-likes.
Of course I agree 100% with your previous message. Is it possible Porsche will finally find a way to break their exclusivity with EA, because I don't know how much they gain through that contract but as time passes they miss a lot of opportunities: Gran Turismo, Forza, iRacing, pCARS,etc... That's a rather large audience ($$$).
Mr. Ruf must be pleased.

Not to mention I highly doubt we'll have the 919 Hybrid featured in a EA game and therefore in any game. And that's a shame.
 
But then his "ugly" section pretty much consists of "this game isn't like GT/Forza, and so that's bad". Which is bollocks.

When someone's criticism of the car list is "a car game has to have Ferrari", I'm not going to take them seriously.
He says there's no progression system. He's flat out wrong.
He complains that seasons are long and there's no way to jump between them. We have adjustable race length and difficulty, and the ability to skip or simulate races.
He complains that there's no upgrading. That's intentional.
He mentions that the tuning system is very weak. He's flat out wrong. It's the most powerful tuning system on any console sim....etc...
When I hear things like that in a review of any game I simply dismiss that person as in over their head in reviewing the particular genre of gaming, and as someone who clearly hasn't done their research into what a game's scope and vision is. The fact that they also get some things seems more by accident than anything else, not through objective criticism. Everyone can appear professional on the internet with a decent command of the english language and a fancy looking website. Few of them actually are.
 
Is it possible Porsche will finally find a way to break their exclusivity with EA, because I don't know how much they gain through that contract but as time passes they miss a lot of opportunities: Gran Turismo, Forza, iRacing, pCARS,etc... That's a rather large audience ($$$).

The Porsche thing has always been weird. I've only ever heard two reasonably plausible explanations.

One, EA pays them so much money that it's in their interest to maintain the contract. It could be true, but it would seem foolish from EA's perspective. Having Porsche doesn't move NFS games in the same way that it would sims, so the value to them would seem to be limited.

Two, Porsche simply doesn't want to have to deal with gaming, and so takes the money and lets EA do their thing. Which seems the most likely to me, Porsche doesn't need to build brand image. If you're interested in sports cars, you know about Porsche. If you're seriously looking at dropping $100k on a sports car, you consider a Porsche. They could quite plausibly reason that they don't need the coverage the games give them, and it could only damage the brand if the cars aren't simulated right.

I dunno, I can imagine the sort of risk averse thinking that leads to that reasoning, and they're kind of right. They don't need gamers, they need motorsport teams and rich guys willing to drop $100k on a car. Zeitgeist doesn't really help them move units, not in the same way that having a halo car does for someone like Nissan or Mazda.

Sad to say, but the gaming world has very little to offer that Porsche would actually want. Same with Ferrari actually, although I suspect Ferrari sees opportunities in their global overpriced merchandise empire. ;)
 
There are things that can be compared between [PCARS] and GT/FM, but it is not a car collecting game. It is not Pimp My Ride: Console Edition.
I think we can contrast PCARS against GT/FM and other games without belittling their gameplay concepts with descriptions like this. As they are now, the GT/FM games do leave room for improvement in terms of the depth of racing action, and it's true that they lack features that would allow for more compelling (motorsports-style) gameplay. These are valid criticisms, but they're still racing games.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it a bit self-defeating to support a fledgling title like PCARS while dumping on any comparisons to its most successful forebears. Yeah, it's a different sort of game, but there are other ways to clarify that.
 
I think we can contrast PCARS against GT/FM and other games without belittling their gameplay concepts with descriptions like this. As they are now, the GT/FM games do leave room for improvement in terms of the depth of racing action, and it's true that they lack features that would allow for more compelling (motorsports-style) gameplay. These are valid criticisms, but they're still racing games.

Meh.

Your complaint is that I didn't use glowing terms to describe the things that GT/FM are good at? I'm responding to a review of pCARS that totally missed the point of the game.

If I'm reviewing GT/FM, then yes I point out that the huge depth of cars is one of the strongest points of the games. That the ability to play the upgrade game and build the car of your dreams is great, especially considering that's how many car enthusiasts are forced to work in real life. They don't have the money or the inclination to simply buy new cars all the time, they get one and upgrade it.

These are great things about those games. They're central to how they play, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying that. Just as there's nothing wrong with enjoying NFS, or Wipeout.

But if someone complains that a game isn't Jay Leno's Car Collecting Simulator 2015 when the game wasn't even trying to do that, yeah I'm gonna use derogatory language to make my point. I'm not putting GT and FM down for being what they are, I'm pointing out the ridiculousness of complaining that a pure motorsport game isn't the same as GT/FM.

You can take what I said however you like, but I like Forza. I like the general idea of GT as well, I just happen to think that the last couple of iterations have been particularly poorly designed attempts to make that idea fun.

Like I've said several times in this thread now, there are things that can and cannot be compared between pCARS and GT/FM. It's foolish to compare the car owning and career progression mechanics in any but the broadest of terms, because the design goals of both games are so far apart. They're not the same because they're not even trying to do the same things, pCARS attempts to give the player a somewhat realistic taste of what it's like to be a racing driver, in a gamey sort of way. GT/FM try to simulate owning a car and modifying it to your taste, and provide some events in which players can use those cars and "work" towards improving them.

pCARS is all about racing. GT/FM are all about cars. They're not the same at all.

On the other hand, things like physics are totally comparable. All three games purport to be trying to be as realistic as possible, and so comparing the different approaches to the same goal is relevant. Basic stuff like sounds, graphical fidelity, AI, track accuracy, these can all be compared reasonably because all the games are striving for the same accuracy to reality in a similar style of game. There's probably more, but you get the idea.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it a bit self-defeating to support a fledgling title like PCARS while dumping on any comparisons to its most successful forebears. Yeah, it's a different sort of game, but there are other ways to clarify that.

...

You're aware that the forebears of pCARS are on PC? It is not a descendant of the GT/FM lineage. It's GTR3 or GTL2, depending on how you want to look at it. If you want to compare it to it's most successful forebears, then bring up GTL, GTR2, GPL, and Game Stock Car. Maybe AC. Probably more that I've forgotten too, but I'm trying to limit it to games that have sort of a single player mode, so not iRacing and rFactor.

The only things that could be considered the forebears of this type of game on console are things like the F1 games and NASCAR: The Game. Most of which are physics-wise pretty awful, but the focus is on racing instead of car ownership. That's pCARS, it just has more racing series than most. It's F1 2015 with a huge amount of extra content.

It's in the same discussion as GT/FM because it's a realistic simulator, and because it's the only such game on PS4 at the moment.
 
Testers can only report bugs, they aren't responsible for or qualified to fix them.

Slightly Mad Studios ran out of time to fix and implement everything they wanted to fix or implement, and as I understand it, they had no funding to delay the game again. They very much found themselves between a rock and a hard place. If there's any fault in this, it's SMS's ambition or lack of time management skills; take your pick.

But it was SMS that said the game was 99.9% finished before the last delay. This release is definitely not 99.9% :-(
 
It's not about whether he was harsh or not. There are many things in pCARS that are worth criticising. He did a reasonable job of a review in his "good" and "bad" sections. He rightly notes the bugs and the confusing menus as points against the game.

But then his "ugly" section pretty much consists of "this game isn't like GT/Forza, and so that's bad". Which is bollocks.

For example, the car list. Sure the game would be better with more cars. I don't see how this is a point either way, the game is how it is because that's what they could afford to make. Same as GT1, and GT3, and FM5. Everyone wants more, but the real question that usually goes unanswered is "is it enough content that the player doesn't run out of things to do?" People are going to have different responses to that.

When someone's criticism of the car list is "a car game has to have Ferrari", I'm not going to take them seriously. There are so many great car games without Ferrari that the statement is laughable. Among them, early Gran Turismos.

He says there's no progression system. He's flat out wrong. You get to start wherever you want, and progress from there. You choose whether you want to play zero-to-hero (ie. full progression mode) or whether you want to start higher up. He even says the option to start anywhere you like is great, but he would rather have everyone locked into the style of play that he likes the most. Ooookay.

He complains that seasons are long and there's no way to jump between them. We have adjustable race length and difficulty, and the ability to skip or simulate races. If you want to smash a season out fast, you totally can. If you just want to drive something else, you can start a new career and jump straight to it. If you want to have everything on the one save, you're going to have to earn your way there. Which sounds suspiciously like the progression that he was complaining that was lacking before.

He complains that there's no upgrading. That's intentional. The racing is designed to be in equal machinery. This is not GT/FM where you take a car, tune it until it's overpowered and then smash the competition.

He mentions that the tuning system is very weak. He's flat out wrong. It's the most powerful tuning system on any console sim.

He then compares it to games like GT/FM and says it's going to get old fast because all there is to do is win races. Hence why I say he's missed the point.

This is not GT. It is not FM. He wants a game with lots of stuff to collect and unlock. That is what feels like progression to him, and that's not what pCARS provides. pCARS gives you all the tools you need to have endless amounts of fun pretending you're a real racing driver, having real races against competitive opponents, working your way up the motorsports ladder if that's your thing.

It's like me saying GTA V is a bad game because the racing is awful. It's true, but it would be to totally miss the point of what GTA V is trying to do. It's not supposed to be a good racing game, it aims to provide a different experience entirely.

Same with pCARS. There are things that can be compared between it and GT/FM, but it is not a car collecting game. It is not Pimp My Ride: Console Edition. It is pure racing, and it's better compared to things like F1 2014 and F1:CE, or games like GT Legends or GTR2 on PC.

I'm sticking with my assessment that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, and he's misjudged the game by attempting to compare it to two other games in ways in which they are incomparable.

The lacks of cars, brands is very valid reason. The progression system depends on the player. I also think they got the name wrong for this game.
 
Pre-GRID TOCA games?

Good point. Probably stuff like Le Mans 24 Hrs too, I guess.

In structure it's not too dissimilar from rally games either, so one could well consider it an extension of that sort of motorsport game, which would then include RBR, some of the WRC games and others of that sort.

Now that you mention it, there's lots of motorsport/driver focussed games on console. It's just in the last few years that they've dropped off.

Interesting.

The lacks of cars, brands is very valid reason. The progression system depends on the player.

You also missed the point.

Lacking cars is a valid complaint, if you can demonstrate that the game suffers for it.

It's basically the inverse of the 1000 cars argument for GT5 and 6. It's all well and good for a game to have a 1000 cars, but there's not really much evidence that the game is the better for it. We had good GT games with relatively tiny yet well selected car lists, and the argument can be made that the rest of the game suffers for the inclusion of standard assets.

Like I said, we'd all like more cars. But because of the type of game pCARS is, it's not as reliant on a massive car list as something like GT or FM. By design, you only have a few choices of car for each motorsport series. It's a shame that the game didn't manage to license all the cars for the series that they chose to include, but there are reasons why the game doesn't have Ferrari and Porsche.

Having a small number of well modelled and physically accurate cars is not a downside, any more than having an enormous number of shabbily modelled and physically inaccurate cars is. It's a design choice, and then the impact on the game can be measured from there. Simply throwing numbers around is willy waving, and means nothing. A proper reviewer can take that and explain why it makes a game better, or worse.

Your man only gets as far as "small car list = bad", which is bollocks. If you'd like to explain why a small car list makes a bad car game, then be my guest. Be sure to reference F1 games, and pretty much every other racing game except GT 2/4/5/6 and FM 3/4.

I think people get so wrapped up in their one little racing game that they forget that there are others out there, and that there's more than one way to make a fun racing game.

I also think they got the name wrong for this game.

What, the name that is an acronym (or a backronym, if we're being honest)? One that accurately describes how the game was funded and made?

I don't suppose you know, but the pCARS name was originally a placeholder, but it was decided to keep the name for the final product because after a couple of years of the alpha there was so much media and discussion around the name it would have been silly to throw that away.

The name wasn't chosen in the usual sense, it was a cutesy throwaway name that just happened to end up sticking for reasons almost entirely unrelated to how good a descriptor of the gameplay it was.
 
The name wasn't chosen in the usual sense, it was a cutesy throwaway name that just happened to end up sticking for reasons almost entirely unrelated to how good a descriptor of the gameplay it was.
That sounds similar to Project Gotham. If I'm not mistaken that was also supposed to be a placeholder name.
 
Having spent over 100 hours now this game has some great features but is severely let down by the amount of bugs (PS4) in career mode to the point it's unplayable.

No FBB after using sleep mode
AI speed not affected by weather conditions at all.
Driving into pits for tyre change and car doesn't stop ( only on certain circuits) so your wanting to switch from soft the wets and cannot do this.
Total loss of sound at race start, this happen apr 40% time on any circuit
AI ramming into you and then I get DQ

At release GT5/6 IMO had many bugs also at release, but where in a better state than Pcars.

Was this game overhyped ..... Hell yes and I wont fall for this again, any future games I buy will be well after launch if indeed I buy any more for the PS4
 
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