Is tyre degradation so high in GT5 thats its unrealistic? PD read!

[ErikAndre71]

I guess your track days showed you wrong.

Until an LMP can run 36 laps at Le Sarthe on one set of tires in GT5 you'll continue to be very, very, clearly wrong on that.

There are three racing compounds in GT5, you really think 3 compound is the only racing tyres in the world? LMP at endurance races uses Endurance tyres, so comparing racing hard from GT5 against it would just be.. well not so smart.

 

[CSLACR]

There are three racing compounds in GT5, you really think 3 compound is the only racing tyres in the world? LMP at endurance races uses Endurance tyres, so comparing racing hard from GT5 against it would just be.. well not so smart.

They're the hardest, longest lasting slicks you can buy in the "world" of GT5.

There are many excuses when it comes to where GT falls short, I just don't make nor mind any of them. If there are tires that can last longer then the ones in GT5, why are they not in GT5?

In GT4 we had 5 sets of slicks, yet still even "super hard" didn't last any longer then our current hard racing tires.
What's more endurance like then a quote "super hard racing tire"?

 

[machwebb]

The problem with this theory is that on the whole people don't drive to the limits of tyres, they drive over them. The hard tyres wore out quicker because people charge about on them like they're on softs.

The recent tyre wear update in 2.02 has upset me. The wear is way too fast..although now the harder tyres last longer than softer ones. I like doing 30-40 lap races online and could a few weeks ago with tyres lasting 12-18 laps depending on car track. but now I'm only getting 3 laps out of the softs. It would be great to have control over tyre wear.

Liking most of the other updates tho.

What I mean by control is that if people want shorter races with enough tyre wear to have an affect on the race have a parameter for it in the event settings.

 

[Christhedude]

I can assure you that the new tyre physics are now closer to real life, its just a question from what tyre manufacturer PD has taken the tyre information from, and therefore calculated the physics.

RS are now Qualifying tyres, RM & RH are now proper racing tyres.

Chris

 

[SagarisGTB]

\I'll take the compliment though if you're saying GT5 skills directly relate to real world motoring skills, thank you.

They definitely do to some degree. It's no coincidence that the guys who do karting are usually pretty quick in GT5. There is overlap.

But, from experience, there isn't much crossover in skills from GT4 to GT5.

 

[machwebb]

I can assure you that the new tyre physics are now closer to real life, its just a question from what tyre manufacturer PD has taken the tyre information from, and therefore calculated the physics.

RS are now Qualifying tyres, RM & RH are now proper racing tyres.

Chris

This is a fair point and probably the way to deal with it. What is good now is that the racing tyres do wear properly in relationship to each other. But I maintain that the wear rate is too fast. I race on hard tyres because it was too easy on the soft tyres, but if I wanted to do a short stint on softs I would. But now I can't. We just gotta roll with the changes.

 

[ErikAndre71]

They're the hardest, longest lasting slicks you can buy in the "world" of GT5.

I guess the 'world' of GT5 isn't perfect.

There are many excuses when it comes to where GT falls short, I just don't make nor mind any of them. If there are tires that can last longer then the ones in GT5, why are they not in GT5?

First of all I didn't mean to give any excuse to anything, but I guess PD had to limit the amount of tyres in this game. Maybe to save room for what's more important. I have no idea why it's like it is, but after playing the rest of the game it seems to be very happy about NASCAR, maybe the tyres are from that as well.

In GT4 we had 5 sets of slicks, yet still even "super hard" didn't last any longer then our current hard racing tires.
What's more endurance like then a quote "super hard racing tire"?

I didn't play GT4, I had a break from it after GT1 and then my life allowed room for playing games when GT5 was released. I jumped right back
But seeing people online raced championship races with what I would like to call qualify laps and got away with it with the old tyre wear made me happy with the new tyre wear. One step closer to the real deal. And NO I don't say it's perfect, but it's in my opinion way better than it used to be

 

[another_jakhole]

GT4 and GT5 isn't MW1 and MW2. Meaning, PD did start from scatch with the heart of what makes GT5 run as a driving sim. It's a game still so not everything will be a direct reflection of reality. Cars aren't meant to roll over in GT5 and it's obviously limited that way. PD/Kaz is the one with 10-19 years of experience because he started in '92, but with "primitive" technology and not as knowledgeable as he is now. I just don't believe that Kaz, a professional racer, who knows that other serious racers use GT5 as a tool, will ignorantly/unknowingly let the "Tire wear improvement" be in this update if the tires are as wrong as SOME of you people expect because you don't like it this way.

Unless the SOME of you are engineers, professional racers, and programmers all combined, I believe PD, the force of highly experienced work nuts, did what they've been accomplishing since the release of GT5. It's improvement, not perfection, by the way.

 

[Disavowed]

I can assure you that the new tyre physics are now closer to real life, its just a question from what tyre manufacturer PD has taken the tyre information from, and therefore calculated the physics.

RS are now Qualifying tyres, RM & RH are now proper racing tyres.

Chris

And I can assure you that you are very, very wrong. I've run on qualifying tires in a race prepped Camaro at Nurburgring and can tell you that those tires lasted a full 3 laps of full on, no holds barred runs. Granted that the last lap had a high pucker factor but definitely not like in GT5 where if feels like you're driving on ice. The "medium" slicks that we used for the race itself lasted between 6 to 8 laps depending on traffic and how hard we pushed the car. Now get into any race car (DTM and above) and using RS tires, try to do one lap of the ring in a decent time without being on your rims the last couple of sectors.

Don't get me wrong. I like the differences between the RS, RM, and RH tires now but they're just not realistic and for endurance racing, they're simply not viable.

 

[DaxCobra]

I don't know if this has been stated already because I haven't read the whole thread, but surely the Tyre Wear cannot be unrealistic, as it can be explained by saying that the compounds are very soft. For example, the new F1 Pirelli tyres last about 10 laps before 'hitting the cliff' (losing all grip) because they are a softer compound. This is also backed up by the fact Racing Softs in GT5 seem to be extremely grippy.

I like to think of it as Racing Hards are really more like mediums, Mediums are Softs and Softs are Super Softs. GT5 needs a harder compound in it's line up.

By the way, this is just my observations, I do not claim to be an expert and I am probably wrong

I hope you all understand what I said, because I am very tired.

Edit: Basically what I am trying to say is you cannot compare certain GT5 tyres to Real Life ones as (I personally believe) the actual compounds are different.

 

[Disavowed]

I don't know if this has been stated already because I haven't read the whole thread, but surely the Tyre Wear cannot be unrealistic, as it can be explained by saying that the compounds are very soft. For example, the new F1 Pirelli tyres last about 10 laps before 'hitting the cliff' (losing all grip) because they are a softer compound. This is also backed up by the fact Racing Softs in GT5 seem to be extremely grippy.

I like to think of it as Racing Hards are really more like mediums, Mediums are Softs and Softs are Super Softs. GT5 needs a harder compound in it's line up.

By the way, this is just my observations, I do not claim to be an expert and I am probably wrong

I hope you all understand what I said, because I am very tired.

You're basically right in that GT5 needs a harder slick compound (or two). Either that or made the RS last 50% longer along with the same adjustments to the RM and RH. The difference in grip is marginally ok but it's the harsh wear characteristics that's killing them. Also, it would be nice if PD could adjust the grip/wear ratio so that it isn't too linear. (This was mentioned earlier by someone else in this thread)

 

[eran0004]

It seems like all categories of tyres could use a "super hard" version, for instance it seems like most sports cars has the real life equivalent of comfort soft, although in game they have sports hard. So a sports super hard would probably be a good idea, so the sports cars can get sports tyres that are more accurate to the ones they have in real life. And super hard racing slicks as well, especially for endurance races. (Didn't the Shulze motorsport GT-R come with sports tyres, for instance? Shouldn't those be racing super hard or something instead?)

But actually, I raced the Nürburgring 4h endurance yesterday and my RM tyres lasted 45 minutes (5 laps), which doesn't seem too unrealistic, given that they are rather soft compunds. But to be honest I drove the Giulia TZ2 which is lightweight and low powered and I suppose that helps when it comes to keeping the tyres fresh. But when it comes to tyre wear I can only compare those times (45 minutes) to the real life racing series I know best, which is the Scandinavian Touring Car Championship, and those races lasts for about 20 minutes and I know that drivers that really push it through the race can end up with quite bad tyres in the end. On the other hand I heard that LMP cars in Le Mans can drive for hours on the same set of tyres so it seems like there's a great diversity in real life tyre wear and in GT5 we only have one type of racing tyres, so it's hard to make that one type accurately represent all kinds of real life racing tyres.

 

[machwebb]

And I can assure you that you are very, very wrong. I've run on qualifying tires in a race prepped Camaro at Nurburgring and can tell you that those tires lasted a full 3 laps of full on, no holds barred runs. Granted that the last lap had a high pucker factor but definitely not like in GT5 where if feels like you're driving on ice. The "medium" slicks that we used for the race itself lasted between 6 to 8 laps depending on traffic and how hard we pushed the car. Now get into any race car (DTM and above) and using RS tires, try to do one lap of the ring in a decent time without being on your rims the last couple of sectors.

Don't get me wrong. I like the differences between the RS, RM, and RH tires now but they're just not realistic and for endurance racing, they're simply not viable.

Glad that someone with actual experience can add to this thread. I agree!

Also we can't compare gt5 compounds with real life, there are too many formula of racing to compare it to.

Idea: If pd could add a 'cliff' at say 30% wear and double the durability overall. I think we would be getting close to compounds that would be suitable for most classes in the game. I speak only for race formulas.

 

[VolkswagenX]

I love this update! It might not be realistic but I had some fune gt500 races on space last night first race was 5 laps and at the 5th lap people were sliding all over the place. After the race people started complaining lol. I asked the host to make it 10 laps. To my surprise the host agreed with me and made it 10 laps. With the info I had I decide to start on RM tires and use RS tires for the last 3 laps.

I expected everyone to use RS tires two times so that I would have an advantage at the end of the race. Started at 14th place, work my way up to 6 and then to 2nd cause most were struggling to keep it on the track. First comes in the pit and I take it. I pit on the 7th lap but hit x to fast and am stuk with RM tires lol. I exit the pit and am in second place. Third place overtakes me before the last chicane on the last lap but I'm still happy with 3rd place if I didn't mess up my pit stop I would have been 2nd lol

 

[CSLACR]

I guess the 'world' of GT5 isn't perfect.



First of all I didn't mean to give any excuse to anything, but I guess PD had to limit the amount of tyres in this game. Maybe to save room for what's more important. I have no idea why it's like it is, but after playing the rest of the game it seems to be very happy about NASCAR, maybe the tyres are from that as well.



I didn't play GT4, I had a break from it after GT1 and then my life allowed room for playing games when GT5 was released. I jumped right back
But seeing people online raced championship races with what I would like to call qualify laps and got away with it with the old tyre wear made me happy with the new tyre wear. One step closer to the real deal. And NO I don't say it's perfect, but it's in my opinion way better than it used to be

My issue is actually that none of the racing tires last properly.
Soft is soft, and they wear out faster then any tire I know of in real life, as has been up multiple times now in this thread.
With the huge differences in grip, I find it hard to believe that the hard tires aren't supposed to be really hard racing tires.

It's classic GT, where it's faster to slap racing softs on and pit every 1-5 laps then it is to run hard tires for 15 laps.
I can enjoy playing GT most of the time, as you know I do it a lot, but the tire wear and tire model in general in this game is downright awful. Hasn't been changed in at least a decade.

 

[SagarisGTB]

It's classic GT, where it's faster to slap racing softs on and pit every 1-5 laps then it is to run hard tires for 15 laps.
I can enjoy playing GT most of the time, as you know I do it a lot, but the tire wear and tire model in general in this game is downright awful. Hasn't been changed in at least a decade.

What are you talking about? The Racing Hards, or Super Hards in particular, were the fastest tires in GT3 and GT4 over a race distance. The softer compounds weren't fast enough to compensate for the extra pitstops. In fact, the Super Hards were sometimes banned in ORS because they were the obvious choice for a long race.

I was surprised how this was flipped in GT5.

 

[kilttraeger]

And I can assure you that you are very, very wrong.

Yeah... each to his own; but I'd advise you to have a look at what Chris does for a living before you completely refute his opinion.

On the topic at hand, I like the high wear rate of RS tyres; I just wished the hard and medium compounds would have slightly more mileage in them to make them completely competitive.

 

[CSLACR]

What are you talking about? The Racing Hards, or Super Hards in particular, were the fastest tires in GT3 and GT4 over a race distance. The softer compounds weren't fast enough to compensate for the extra pitstops. In fact, the Super Hards were sometimes banned in ORS because they were the obvious choice for a long race.

I was surprised how this was flipped in GT5.

I found the opposite, big time, but it depended on the track too. When you have to wait for fuel, it was always quicker to make extra stops.
On twisty tracks where fuel wasn't an issue before the tires wore out, then hards may have been the way to go.

 

[Disavowed]

Yeah... each to his own; but I'd advise you to have a look at what Chris does for a living before you completely refute his opinion.

On the topic at hand, I like the high wear rate of RS tyres; I just wished the hard and medium compounds would have slightly more mileage in them to make them completely competitive.

Correct you are. Hadn't noticed that. Perhaps I misinterpreted his comment? I still stand by my opinion regarding the racing tires in GT5.

On topic, yes, more mileage would be great including the RS.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I found the opposite, big time, but it depended on the track too. When you have to wait for fuel, it was always quicker to make extra stops.
On twisty tracks where fuel wasn't an issue before the tires wore out, then hards may have been the way to go.

I'm skeptical of your claim.

For GT3, it's simply not the case. 1, there's no fuel in GT3. 2, the Super Softs last barely 2 laps with high powered race cars. It's not a usable tire for races and sometimes not even usable for quali laps. The Softs and Mediums are sometimes better choices for a quali because they last through an entire hot lap. The Super Slicks (Super Hards) were by far the best tires for GT3 races. They last by far the longest and were not that much slower than the softer compounds.

For GT4, the wear rate was homogenized. The hards still lasted longest and softs the shortest, but the difference in wear wasn't as dramatic as in GT3. Fuel also added another variable. But the general consensus was that the hards and super hards were still the best tires.

 

[CSLACR]

I'm skeptical of your claim.

For GT3, it's simply not the case. 1, there's no fuel in GT3. 2, the Super Softs last barely 2 laps with high powered race cars. It's not a usable tire for races and sometimes not even usable for quali laps. The Softs and Mediums are sometimes better choices for a quali because they last through an entire hot lap. The Super Slicks (Super Hards) were by far the best tires for GT3 races. They last by far the longest and were not that much slower than the softer compounds.

For GT4, the wear rate was homogenized. The hards still lasted longest and softs the shortest, but the difference in wear wasn't as dramatic as in GT3. Fuel also added another variable. But the general consensus was that the hards and super hards were still the best tires.

I may have been speaking purely of GT4 then, to be honest I don't remember GT3 all that well. I remember GT1 better then 2 or 3 actually.

But in GT4 it was certainly faster in most scenarios to run the stickier tires, while they were close, between the extra ease of passing, not having to wait for fuel in the pits (or at least not nearly as long), less mistakes due to extra grip, and the lap time difference, it was still faster to run sticky tires.
Not necessarily the stickiest tires, depending on amount of laps, etc, sometimes mediums could be faster, etc.

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

And I can assure you that you are very, very wrong...

And I can assure you if anyone knows race tires in this room, it's Chris. He only holds a FIA grade A international competition license and competed in the Nürburgring endurance for the past 2 years...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pWoya30AQtc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

And I can assure you if anyone knows race tires in this room, it's Chris. He only holds a FIA grade A international competition license and competed in the Nürburgring endurance for the past 2 years...

 

[Disavowed]

And I can assure you if anyone knows race tires in this room, it's Chris. He only holds a FIA grade A international competition license and competed in the Nürburgring endurance for the past 2 years...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/pWoya30AQtc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ok, since you brought that up. I have raced for 17 years and unless tires have changed drastically in the past 6 years that I haven't raced... so correct me if I'm wrong. I still stand by my opinion that when RS tires can't even do one hot "blow them all away" lap of the ring (they're supposedly super soft qualifying tires now right?) then something isn't right.

I like the how the grip differences between the RS, RM, and RH are more apparent but the tire wear....

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm skeptical of your claim.

For GT3, it's simply not the case. 1, there's no fuel in GT3. 2, the Super Softs last barely 2 laps with high powered race cars. It's not a usable tire for races and sometimes not even usable for quali laps. The Softs and Mediums are sometimes better choices for a quali because they last through an entire hot lap. The Super Slicks (Super Hards) were by far the best tires for GT3 races. They last by far the longest and were not that much slower than the softer compounds.

For GT4, the wear rate was homogenized. The hards still lasted longest and softs the shortest, but the difference in wear wasn't as dramatic as in GT3. Fuel also added another variable. But the general consensus was that the hards and super hards were still the best tires.

You're right and you make a good point. They were the best in long runs, as in real life you'll notice that harder compound tires wear slower and thus at a the start point aren't as gripped at the softs off the bat, GT4 did a better job of this than GT5. However, the game developers still exaggerated the tire model and this game is just a joke with it and we'd be better off on thin bicycle tires then what we're given. PD needs to get a hold of some tire data sheets and use that as a marking point, Super softs should last about 7-10 laps if driven on correctly, but since we're not all f1 superstars more like 5-7 laps while the soft's should get a couple more. Since we only have softs we don't see what real life says we should get out of them. Seeing as f1 cars are probably the most brutal on tires around a track it's sad to see how unrealistic it is for a person to run the F10 around Monza and not be similar to what real life predicts.

And I can assure you if anyone knows race tires in this room, it's Chris. He only holds a FIA grade A international competition license and competed in the Nürburgring endurance for the past 2 years...

there ya go

 

[SuperSic]

Race soft tyres are also not realistic grip wise. I don't know why most people keep expecting realistic wear on them.

A simple test comparing a real lap will tell you how far are from a real slick tyre.

For a more realistic wear first you will need to find the closest tyre regarding realistic grip.

People need to understand that tyre selection in GT5 do not represent the same real world tyre compounds or properties. All tyre grades are upscaled in grip and wear, being the R compounds in GT5 non existant in the real world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eSHCZEF5V0

Explain to me please what is the GT5 equivalent tire for me to replicate this lap.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Explain to me please what is the GT5 equivalent tire for me to replicate this lap.

There fixed yours as well.

 

[CSLACR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eSHCZEF5V0

Explain to me please what is the GT5 equivalent tire for me to replicate this lap.

Can you even run a 1:49.xxx at Suzuka in a stock Arta NSX in GT5 on racing softs? (Or any stock GT500 car really)
I've been meaning to try it, I guess offline would be fastest, but even if I can't doesn't mean you can't, so...
Would love to hear what you can get.

Also does anyone know what lap times the SuperGT's run in the races at Suzuka in real life?

 

[Dr. P]

I have to ask, how many of YOU drive tires screaming on the corner?
I have noticed that on Online races many people go for the "time trial" lap times and the tires last for couple of laps. (all though most of the races are very short. *sigh*)

And if you check i.e. on youtube for GT races, those tires don't scream and if they do, you can clearly hear it.

 

[SuperSic]

Can you even run a 1:49.xxx at Suzuka in a stock Arta NSX in GT5 on racing softs? (Or any stock GT500 car really)
I've been meaning to try it, I guess offline would be fastest, but even if I can't doesn't mean you can't, so...
Would love to hear what you can get.

Also does anyone know what lap times the SuperGT's run in the races at Suzuka in real life?

Last season they were running 59's to 2'01s from the start until the end of their stints. All the cars used 2 or 3 sets of tires through 86 laps.

The pace is indicating their race tires are close to Racing Hards on GT, with a little less pace (even though they probably have to lap GT300's on the majority of their laps so their pace is a bit compromised) and around 350% more durability. On top of that, towards the end of their stints they will lap only 1.5 - 2.0 secs slower than with fresh tires on a clean lap.

Offline mode/ Racing soft tires/ 532 bhp/1100kg Lexus SC430/