Is tyre degradation so high in GT5 thats its unrealistic? PD read!

[Jav]

What lap times? you did not read my last links right? were all about handling.. the close lap times are a consequence of that.




I posted this in the other thread, I guess you did not read:

"Remember the tyres used in the Coulthard Seasonal Event(comfort softs). The recomended tyres by Polyphony to match the real life performance in the R8 comparison at Laguna Seca(comfort medium). The low grip tyres used for the GT Academy competitions(comfort and low sports tyres for race cars). Etc.."

And now compare those official tyres designated by the game creators for realism with the default tyres of any of those cars in the game. Also compare that selection with the professional driver opinion posted above.

One thing is the default car configuration(mostly towards to the casual player with toned down realism, more grip and all aids on) and another a realistic configuration to match the real car behaviour and performance in its stock pure form(realistic grip tyres and no aids). GT games always have come like that since GT1. Do you remember the special control tyres(sim) in older GTs?

Again with the lap times? Does the fact that they need to de-tune their car to match that lap time tell you how broken their physics engine and tire model is?
I guess you missed this part, I got no problem with the comfort or sport range of tires, they are great for street cars but for anything upwards of DTM you need the race tire range"...
GT5 is a GAME and is great as such, but it is far from being a simulator.

 

[CSLACR]

Ok so if comfort soft is a Merc SLS, and comfort medium is an Audi R8, then what the hell does a regular family sedan need? It's certainly not in the game is it?

How about the lap record at Laguna the ACR held? What tires does that need? How many different cars need weird tire combination to actually run realistic lap times?

I know the Subaru Impreza needs sports hards to run 7:55 at the Nurburgring, are you seriously saying STI's come with two compounds worth better tires then Audi R8's?

GT5 is fun when it works, but it's far from accurate.

 

[JDMKING13]

Are you guys using ABS on these racing machines?

 

[Mac K]

Ok so if comfort soft is a Merc SLS, and comfort medium is an Audi R8, then what the hell does a regular family sedan need? It's certainly not in the game is it?

How about the lap record at Laguna the ACR held? What tires does that need? How many different cars need weird tire combination to actually run realistic lap times?

I know the Subaru Impreza needs sports hards to run 7:55 at the Nurburgring, are you seriously saying STI's come with two compounds worth better tires then Audi R8's?

GT5 is fun when it works, but it's far from accurate.

PD apprentely said that the R8 should run Comfort Mediums to be equivalent to the real car, personally I've never found this believeable at all, and you're last few sentences proves why.

 

[Jav]

Yeah, GT1/GT2/GT3 was the best we had on their era. GT4 was good, GT5 is a great game but has a long ways to go before it earns to be called a simulator.

 

[chuyler1]

For those that think they wouldn't wear down their street tires after racing hard on them, take a look at the stats for Top Gear's "Star in a Reasonably Priced Car".

In its service, the Liana covered 1,600 laps of the circuit; its tyres and brakes were changed 100 times; and, it required six new clutches, two new hubs, driveshafts, wishbones, struts and gear linkages and a replacement wing mirror.

That is roughly 16 laps per set of tires. I doubt they ran them until they were bald, but they obviously would run them until they were no longer competitive.

In short, your daily driving has absolutely no basis for comparison for how tires wear on the race track. A set of tires that might last you 30,000 miles on the road will only last about 50-100 miles on the track.

 

[Jav]

For those that think they wouldn't wear down their street tires after racing hard on them, take a look at the stats for Top Gear's "Star in a Reasonably Priced Car".



That is roughly 16 laps per set of tires. I doubt they ran them until they were bald, but they obviously would run them until they were no longer competitive.

In short, your daily driving has absolutely no basis for comparison for how tires wear on the race track. A set of tires that might last you 30,000 miles on the road will only last about 50-100 miles on the track.

Tires with high thread wear can't really manage the heat produced by hot lapping. I knew a guy who used to buy 80,000 miles warranty tires from Pep Boys and would take them to track days, at the end of the day after about 5 heats of total abuse the tires would end up missing huge chunks of rubber! he would then go that night and get new replacement tires for the next day! Yes he was slow as hell(actually faster on a 92 Nissan Sentra than a few guys on their shinny new M3 on Hoosiers), but he was having a blast!

 

[JDMKING13]

PD apprentely said that the R8 should run Comfort Mediums to be equivalent to the real car, personally I've never found this believeable at all, and you're last few sentences proves why.

I would love to see where PD said this, anyway I use CS for the R8 it comes stock with Pirelli PZero. As someone said early in this thread I'm just happy we have the many tire choices available. I'm sure PD will get do something about this. Are you guys using ABS for these high powered machines?

 

[ralph89]

Ahh GTplanet, the place to argue..

Anyway I rarely use the R tires. I mostly use the sports (Race cars) and comfort tires (Street cars), and I get pretty good laps around the ring. Also, I think the suspension setting and driving technique affects the tire wear. I guess you just need to have a better settingw and not drive it like you stole it, and you'll be fine. Sim or not, IMO GT5 still is the best in it's class for virtual driving.

 

[Disavowed]

Ahh GTplanet, the place to argue..

Anyway I rarely use the R tires. I mostly use the sports (Race cars) and comfort tires (Street cars), and I get pretty good laps around the ring. Also, I think the suspension setting and driving technique affects the tire wear. I guess you just need to have a better settingw and not drive it like you stole it, and you'll be fine. Sim or not, IMO GT5 still is the best in it's class for virtual driving.

Yes, what you say is true about driving technique but unfortunately, on cars that are DTM level and above, the tires are just wearing out too fast. On those cars, it doesn't matter much whether you drive like a grandma or a maniac. Yes, it's a great virtual driving experience but as a simulation, this patch just booted it out of contention.

Oh and as for driving like you stole it... when less than one second separates the first and tenth place car....

 

[TCSdisable]

For me... My driving style could produce same wear lose with different compound.



Racing Hard or Racing Soft are not matter the working time extend or not (but lap time are real extend with Hard...)

 

[Rawi]

I still don't see why u guys are still driving ur selfs mad comparing gt5 with real life cars and situations ..u are missing the point this is a game it would never even come close to the real thing . For me personally the game exp has been murdered yes it's true if u manage ur tires they might last I just did a 9 lap race in laguna seca did not pit and ended with about 35 percent of my racing soft tires but then again what is racing if u can put the pedal to the metal the whole thing felt ukward like I was out for a sunday drive with my kids in the car . I feel that pd should put more enfasis in fixing the servers so maybe more people can do champ. And leagues without dropping out do to connection and lag

 

[DJones]

I still don't see why u guys are still driving ur selfs mad comparing gt5 with real life cars and situations ..u are missing the point this is a game it would never even come close to the real thing . For me personally the game exp has been murdered yes it's true if u manage ur tires they might last I just did a 9 lap race in laguna seca did not pit and ended with about 35 percent of my racing soft tires but then again what is racing if u can put the pedal to the metal the whole thing felt ukward like I was out for a sunday drive with my kids in the car . I feel that pd should put more enfasis in fixing the servers so maybe more people can do champ. And leagues without dropping out do to connection and lag

Hey man, you need to read the aup.

 

[TCSdisable]

I still don't see why u guys are still driving ur selfs mad comparing gt5 with real life cars and situations ..u are missing the point this is a game it would never even come close to the real thing .

Well... I sure there have some people have budget to own a Real Racing Team~

But what's your point we couldn't hope a game make more perfect?
(Better Sim? PC have a lot)

 

[Greycap]

I'd say that now PD finally got the Racing Softs right, they have the grip of qualifying tyres so the tyre life should be extremely short too. But it has to be said that mediums and hards wear out too quickly, hards should be good for 150-200 km or so and mediums for 100-150 km.

One thing I noticed with the new wear rate is that the grip stays quite stable until the last 25% while before it was going steadily downhill over the entire tyre life. That's certainly an improvement as a slick tyre with 90% "tread" doesn't differ from one with 30% in any other way than having a slighly different radius as long as temperatures and graining remain the same.

 

[chuyler1]

One thing I noticed with the new wear rate is that the grip stays quite stable until the last 25% while before it was going steadily downhill over the entire tyre life. That's certainly an improvement as a slick tyre with 90% "tread" doesn't differ from one with 30% in any other way than having a slighly different radius as long as temperatures and graining remain the same.

I beg to differ. Please see my 2.02 analysis thread. For road racing, all 3 tires degrade over time producing slightly slower times each lap around the track. I experienced a 2 second difference in lap times between lap 3 (90% tread remaining) on a set of RH tires and lap 9 (30% tread remaining) on a set of RH tires. That is a significant loss of grip. By the time you get to lap 12 (10% tread remaining) there is a 6 second difference.

 

[Mac K]

I would love to see where PD said this, anyway I use CS for the R8 it comes stock with Pirelli PZero. As someone said early in this thread I'm just happy we have the many tire choices available. I'm sure PD will get do something about this. Are you guys using ABS for these high powered machines?

I read it in a few posts on here, it could be just a rumor for all I know..Why CS though?

 

[Morgoth_666]

Seems like a lot of the complaints center around "the game is ruined now because I can't use impossibly grippy RS tires for an hour straight with tire wear on."

It is clearly way over accelerated now but those ultra grippy RS tires shouldn't last very long anyway - they should call them SuperSofts and add another harder compound or two, that might help.

I'd like at least the option for a slower wear rate, but the tires aren't really copying any particular real-life tire - they're just PD-world's version of racing tires. The most important thing is that they balance right so a slower more durable compound can compete with a faster tire that has to stop and overtake people more. It seems on that front they're close but maybe not quite there. Having an option for faster fuel depletion would probably help that a bit, as would more cars on track but that can't happen.

I'd say it's a good first step that could probably use a tweak. PD is clearly biasing it towards the short races more common online.

 

[GT6mebe]

Ok so if comfort soft is a Merc SLS, and comfort medium is an Audi R8, then what the hell does a regular family sedan need? It's certainly not in the game is it?

How about the lap record at Laguna the ACR held? What tires does that need? How many different cars need weird tire combination to actually run realistic lap times?

I know the Subaru Impreza needs sports hards to run 7:55 at the Nurburgring, are you seriously saying STI's come with two compounds worth better tires then Audi R8's?

GT5 is fun when it works, but it's far from accurate.

Correct me If I am wrong but with all due respect you probably do not have the skills to run a subaru wrx sti around the Nurburgring in real life at 7.55.

Therefore it is unrealistic for you to say that too run such a time the subaru would need sport hards.

I would say realistically you could get within 30-20 secs (7:20-25) of that time in real life and so the appropriate tire compound should be comfort hards.

You have to remember that these times set at the Nurburgring are from the very best drivers in real life. Therefore you should not be aiming for those times but for times that seem realistic to your standards.

Ill do a test today and tell you the results for the viper acr

 

[novcze]

Seems like a lot of the complaints center around "the game is ruined now because I can't use impossibly grippy RS tires for an hour straight with tire wear on."

It is clearly way over accelerated now but those ultra grippy RS tires shouldn't last very long anyway - they should call them SuperSofts and add another harder compound or two, that might help.

You shouldn't include first sentence, main complaints are not about that, otherwise I agree.

 

[Jav]

Correct me If I am wrong but with all due respect you probably do not have the skills to run a subaru wrx sti around the Nurburgring in real life at 7.55.

Therefore it is unrealistic for you to say that too run such a time the subaru would need sport hards.

I would say realistically you could get within 30-20 secs (7:20-25) of that time in real life and so the appropriate tire compound should be comfort hards.

You have to remember that these times set at the Nurburgring are from the very best drivers in real life. Therefore you should not be aiming for those times but for times that seem realistic to your standards.

Ill do a test today and tell you the results for the viper acr

Lol!! And there's where you'll be wrong, very wrong!
Funny how you never know who you might be talking to in this forums...

 

[Morgoth_666]

You shouldn't include first sentence, main complaints are not about that, otherwise I agree.

Not saying it's everyone's complaint but I seem to have read a paraphrase of that bit at least two or three dozen times by now, that's why I said it. Maybe it's just two people making the same complaint over and over in every thread. I fully expect some not to like the change, but then I didn't like the dynamic of 98% of non-drift rooms being RS only.

 

[chuyler1]

Actually, if we had a perfect match in the game to a real car (including hp, tq, and skidpad grip), an expert driver at both the game and real life racing would be able to put down faster laps in the game. This is a proven fact that has been discussed at numerous outlets besides GTPlanet. So if you consider yourself a 'typical' driver (not one of the GT Academy finalists), then matching the time is probably an accurate method. If you think your lap is flawless, then it should be quicker than the real life time. Afterall, the game portrays perfect conditions (track temp, consistency, debris, tire predictability, and of course a much smoother surface).

 

[chuyler1]

I fully expect some not to like the change, but then I didn't like the dynamic of 98% of non-drift rooms being RS only.

👍 Same here. I usually have to host a room if I want to run sports tires. I refuse to enter a room without a tire restriction unless it is limited to a specific class like GT500. But now without a restriction drivers will have to pay attention to the length of the race before they commit to using a RS tire. They might make it to the end of a 5 lap sprint but if it goes to 8 laps they will have to run RM and adjust their tune accordingly.

 

[kalakanto]

This is what we get when enough moaning of racing softs to be too grippy on every site and request's. Now we got good tyrewear which can be handled by skilled drivers but those who drive on walls and agressivly are now pissed off. I'm one of those losers but still driving and enjoying of GT5, very slippery simulator.

 

[xxDingerxx]

Well I have done a spot of amateur racing in my time but honestly, I really wouldn't be able to give an answer that would satisfy myself, let alone you guys

There are just to many factors that have a huge impact on tire wear. Style of driving, car setup (or car itself), track layout, weather conditions, mainly temperature which effects track temperature (one of the major factors), type of tarmac as light and dark tarmacs heat up and displaces heat at different rates

Really, I wouldn't be able to come close to get my head around each and every factor as there are just to many variables. I guess thats why professional teams hire experts to study all of the factors as well as experts from tire manufacturer's as well. Even then, they get it wrong

If I were to hazard a guess though, I would say GT5 interpretation is toward the softer compounds, with soft being super softs IRL, with hard compounds more like the medium compounds IRL. It would make sense as the majority of races are actually just quick sprints

 

[CSLACR]

Correct me If I am wrong but with all due respect you probably do not have the skills to run a subaru wrx sti around the Nurburgring in real life at 7.55.

Therefore it is unrealistic for you to say that too run such a time the subaru would need sport hards.

I would say realistically you could get within 30-20 secs (7:20-25) of that time in real life and so the appropriate tire compound should be comfort hards.

You have to remember that these times set at the Nurburgring are from the very best drivers in real life. Therefore you should not be aiming for those times but for times that seem realistic to your standards.

Ill do a test today and tell you the results for the viper acr

Just FYI, you won't find anyone on the planet that can beat me by 10 seconds in a stock Subaru in 1 lap on the Nurburgring in GT5, not even close.

I'll take the compliment though if you're saying GT5 skills directly relate to real world motoring skills, thank you.

 

[Mr.Slow]

I have done a fair share of track days IRL and I don't think that either the tyre wear or fuel consumption in GT5 are exaggerated. Or at least not just to "provide entertainment"

Yes the devil is in the details like contact patch, car weight,power , speed and driving style. Specially driving style and power.

The heavier the car and the more powerful the engine the less the tyres will last.

 

[machwebb]

What's even worse is that it's been proven that Racing Soft tyres will actually wear slower than Racing Hard or Medium, while being faster. Something to do with the amount of slip each tyre experiences, and because Softs are the most grippy and therefore have less slip they get the best tyre wear.

The problem with this theory is that on the whole people don't drive to the limits of tyres, they drive over them. The hard tyres wore out quicker because people charge about on them like they're on softs.

The recent tyre wear update in 2.02 has upset me. The wear is way too fast..although now the harder tyres last longer than softer ones. I like doing 30-40 lap races online and could a few weeks ago with tyres lasting 12-18 laps depending on car track. but now I'm only getting 3 laps out of the softs. It would be great to have control over tyre wear.

Liking most of the other updates tho.

 

[CSLACR]

I have done a fair share of track days IRL and I don't think that either the tyre wear or fuel consumption in GT5 are exaggerated. Or at least not just to "provide entertainment"

Yes the devil is in the details like contact patch, car weight,power , speed and driving style. Specially driving style and power.

The heavier the car and the more powerful the engine the less the tyres will last.

I guess your track days showed you wrong.

Until an LMP can run 36 laps at Le Sarthe on one set of tires in GT5 you'll continue to be very, very, clearly wrong on that.