Islam - What's your view on it?

  • Thread starter SalmanBH
  • 6,000 comments
  • 269,679 views
Johnnypenso
Not all bombings are created equal apparently. The broader truth - 1 bombing, 22 deaths, 52 bombings 1 death. Looks like one is out to kill lots of people and the other is not, not quite apples and apples. Of course I have to add the caveat that I don't condone bombing or killing people or terrorism even though some will ignore it.
Click to expand...
I didn't say they were, but then again I don't recall such a distinction being a part of the original question.
 
Scaff
I didn't say they were, but then again I don't recall such a distinction being a part of the original question.
Click to expand...
Just pointing out the broader truth in case someone gets the idea that the acts of terrorism are equivalent in scope and damage.
 
Johnnypenso
Just pointing out the broader truth in case someone gets the idea that the acts of terrorism are equivalent in scope and damage.
Click to expand...
You seem to have a thing for broader, more general truth today.

Now aside from coming across as the strap line for a conspiracy theory, it also comes across to me as an attempt to paint one form of terrorism as more acceptable than another form.

How about we add in the total impact of Irish sectarian violence in the UK and Eire and compare it to the impact of Islamist violence over the same period and seem which one is worse overall?

The last time I checked we never had Muslims using light 50s on patrolling soldiers in the UK?

Or pulling members of the security service from cars in broad daylight, stripping them and beating them to death?

Or carrying our regular mortor attacks on police stations, or bombing the entire government in a hotel?
 
Last edited:
Scaff
You seem to have a thing for broader, more general truth today.

Now aside from coming across as the strap line for a conspiracy theory, it also comes across to me as an attempt to paint one form of terrorism as more acceptable than another form.

How about we add in the total impact of Irish sectarian violence in the UK and Eire and compare it to the impact of Islamist violence over the same period and seem which one is worse overall?

The last time I checked we never had Muslims using light 50s in patrolling soldiers in the UK?
Click to expand...
And you seem to have some disdain for the broader truth. Nowhere did I say or even hint that one form of terrorism is more acceptable and I'd thank you not to assign your own biases to my posts. Ryzno asked about the last year and you said you had a long list of Christians blowing people up. 1 dead, while tragic and unacceptable, is not a "long list", nor does it compare to the dozens or hundreds killed in Islamic terrorism in that same time period.
 
Johnnypenso
And you seem to have some disdain for the broader truth. Nowhere did I say or even hint that one form of terrorism is more acceptable and I'd thank you not to assign your own biases to my posts. Ryzno asked about the last year and you said you had a long list of Christians blowing people up. 1 dead, while tragic and unacceptable, is not a "long list", nor does it compare to the dozens or hundreds killed in Islamic terrorism in that same time period.
Click to expand...
I simply don't agree that you get to set the broader truth.

You would also do well to go back and reread the chain of posts, as you are mixing the post order up.

The request for an example in the last year was made after I said a very, very long list could be provided.

Nor does it explain why an arbitrary time period should be set? Well I can think of one, but if that was the case it would display a rather massive bias.
 
Scaff
I simply don't agree that you get to set the broader truth.

You would also do well to go back and reread the chain of posts, as you are mixing the post order up.

The request for an example in the last year was made after I said a very, very long list could be provided.

Nor does it explain why an arbitrary time period should be set? Well I can think of one, but if that was the case it would display a rather massive bias.
Click to expand...
I'm not setting the broader truth, I'm using quotes from your own sources to do so. I read the chain of posts. Ryz asked about the last year and you quoted it in your response, no mix up at all, sorry. Can't speak for Ryz but I'd guess he introduced the time period to make it relevant to what is happening today and not decades ago. I live today, I don't live in the 70's. I don't worry about FLQ terrorists when I go to Quebec or Palestinian hijackers when I board an airplane these days. While these things are historically relevant, they aren't much of a cause for concern in 2017.
 
Johnnypenso
I'm not setting the broader truth, I'm using quotes from your own sources to do so. I read the chain of posts. Ryz asked about the last year and you quoted it in your response, no mix up at all, sorry. Can't speak for Ryz but I'd guess he introduced the time period to make it relevant to what is happening today and not decades ago. I live today, I don't live in the 70's. I don't worry about FLQ terrorists when I go to Quebec or Palestinian hijackers when I board an airplane these days. While these things are historically relevant, they aren't much of a cause for concern in 2017.
Click to expand...
Quote me saying very, very long list in reply to him after the year time limit was requested. I expect to see it.

He stated Christians don't blow themselvesup in bomb attacks, I agreed but asked why that distinction was needed in a bomb attack. No time period, simply a discussion about the actions of two groups.

After that the how about in the last year question was raised, to which I cited the 52 (which is an increase in the previous year, given that the New IRA has got it's hands on a quarter tonne of Semtex).

That is and was the total conversation, well until you started on the broader truth route and started accusing me of making posting in an order I clearly didn't.
 
Scaff
Quote me saying very, very long list in reply to him after the year time limit was requested. I expect to see it.
Click to expand...
upload_2017-5-30_9-20-32.png
My mistake in thinking that the list of 52 was the long list you were referring to. I guess it's different in the U.K. and 52 isn't a long list. You got me. You win again.
 
Last edited:
Scaff
I don't believe you will find they are the first to condemn violence of this form.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/muslim-condemn-violence-list_uk_582d9dede4b09025ba31677a

muslimscondemn.com


Interesting how you still manage to turn it into a dig however.
Click to expand...
Lucky for me I wasn't commenting on all of Islam and only on the story you linked. They've been dying by the tens of thousands in Pakistan for decades. Interesting how you move the goalposts from the story I was commenting on (the link to which is included in the quote) to all of Islam.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Johnnypenso
Lucky for me I wasn't commenting on all of Islam and only on the story you linked. They've been dying by the tens of thousands in Pakistan for decades. Interesting how you move the goalposts from the story I was commenting on (the link to which is included in the quote) to all of Islam.
Click to expand...
You might want to look at that site and list a little more closely if you think this is the first time anyone in Pakistan has done it either.

Now if you want to be utterly focused on one group (as in the group in the article I linked to) you would be wrong again.

"renouncing any oppression, aggressive violence and terrorism, especially that committed in the name of religion"
Source: http://www.acommonword.com/downloads/CW-Booklet-Final-v6_8-1-09.pdf
(Its on the list I provided and took me all of 5 minutes to check and confirm).


Dated 2009, but I'm quite sure that will not be good enough either!
 
Last edited:
ryzno
Something on this page is crashing my phone. Takes forever to load.
Click to expand...
The site software automatically embedded a large spreadsheet, which I suspect was the issue. I've removed it and will replace it with a link. Fingers crossed that will fix the problem.

Seem's Muslims have condemn violence so much it crashes you phone!
 
Scaff
The site software automatically embedded a large spreadsheet, which I suspect was the issue. I've removed it and will replace it with a link. Fingers crossed that will fix the problem.

Seem's Muslims have condemn violence so much it crashes you phone!
Click to expand...
Lol! That fixed it. :cheers:
 
Scaff
You might want to look at that site and list a little more closely if you think this is the first time anyone in Pakistan has done it either.

Now if you want to be utterly focused on one group (as in the group in the article I linked to) you would be wrong again.

"renouncing any oppression, aggressive violence and terrorism, especially that committed in the name of religion"
Source: http://www.acommonword.com/downloads/CW-Booklet-Final-v6_8-1-09.pdf
(Its on the list I provided and took me all of 5 minutes to check and confirm).


Dated 2009, but I'm quite sure that will not be good enough either!
Click to expand...
I'm utterly focused on the original link you provided. I made no mention of whether other Muslims condemed violence, it's utterly irrelevant to my point. A fatwa is a pretty big deal I take it. I would assume that if they issued the fatwa in Pakistan it could be the first of it's kind from this particular group on this subject otherwise why issue a fatwa, why not just reiterate that old one? The only other fatwas I recall off the top of my head are Jerry Falwell, Geert Wilders and, the most famous one I know of, Salman Rushdie so I assume they'll be chopped up or blown to bits if caught by the wrong people. At least 3 dozen people directly or indirectly linked to Rushdie, have died or been severely injured as a result of his fatwa.
 
Johnnypenso
I'm utterly focused on the original link you provided. I made no mention of whether other Muslims condemed violence, it's utterly irrelevant to my point. A fatwa is a pretty big deal I take it. I would assume that if they issued the fatwa in Pakistan it could be the first of it's kind from this particular group on this subject otherwise why issue a fatwa, why not just reiterate that old one? The only other fatwas I recall off the top of my head are Jerry Falwell, Geert Wilders and, the most famous one I know of, Salman Rushdie so I assume they'll be chopped up or blown to bits if caught by the wrong people. At least 3 dozen people directly or indirectly linked to Rushdie, have died or been severely injured as a result of his fatwa.
Click to expand...
Now who is moving goalposts. This is not other Muslim's, this is exactly the same group.

Do you know what a fatwa is? A rhetorical question, as you clearly don't.

It's a religious interpretation or clarification of the text, one in this case around terrorism being Haram (forbidden in Islam).

They have been issued to say that Coke is Halal (as it was a point of discussion as it can contain traces of alcohol) or that smoking is bad for you!

You however are suggesting that all Fatwa result in a death penalty, which is akin to saying the only sentence in common law is the death penalty.

You seem to be getting your idea of what they are from the same kind of sources that attempt to put a singular meaning on Jihad (which means struggle and can be used in a very wide range of contexts).

However feel free to be absurdly pedantic as to try and make that different to an early statement that terrorism is un Islamic. All it does from my view is strengthened the appearance of bias coming from your posts.
 
Last edited:
Scaff
You however are suggesting that all Fatwa result in a death penalty, which is akin to saying the only sentence in common law is the death penalty.
Click to expand...

How on Earth did you reach a conclusion like that? He said no such thing. He merely cited three memorable examples. Things that carry a death penalty tend to be somewhat more memorable than those which don't, don't you think?
 
BobK
How on Earth did you reach a conclusion like that? He said no such thing. He merely cited three memorable examples. Things that carry a death penalty tend to be somewhat more memorable than those which don't, don't you think?
Click to expand...
I might of agreed with you had he not added in "so I assume they'll be chopped up or blown to bits if caught by the wrong people"

Which rather strongly infers that the penalty for not following a fatwa would be death.

Not that it changes the rather huge distraction from the core point, this specific group have condemned terrorism and violence in the name of Islam in the past.
 
Last edited:
Scaff
I might of agreed with you had he not added in "so I assume they'll be chopped up or blown to bits if caught by the wrong people"

Which rather strongly infers that the penalty for not following a fatwa would be death.
Click to expand...

It comes down to interpretation, I guess. I thought the "they" referred to Falwell, Wilders and Rushdie especially considering this part:
Johnnypenso
At least 3 dozen people directly or indirectly linked to Rushdie, have died or been severely injured as a result of his fatwa.
Click to expand...
 
BobK
How on Earth did you reach a conclusion like that? He said no such thing. He merely cited three memorable examples. Things that carry a death penalty tend to be somewhat more memorable than those which don't, don't you think?
Click to expand...

BobK
It comes down to interpretation, I guess. I thought the "they" referred to Falwell, Wilders and Rushdie especially considering this part:
Click to expand...
Exactly right Bob:tup:👍. Pretty self explanatory as usual.
 

Similar threads

Chrisssss
What's your go-to car?
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
Force-Feedback
Force-Feedback
CTznOfTime
  • Poll
Your Racing Cam/View with PSVR2
Replies
20
Views
4K
todally_lit
todally_lit
I
Project cars three stuck in rear view
Replies
3
Views
1K
IfAndOr
IfAndOr
Nakean
gt7 VR2 time split view
Replies
11
Views
6K
sonnyboychris
sonnyboychris
ploopsy
Centered cockpit view idea
Replies
10
Views
3K
stonelejo
S

Latest Posts

Back