Islam - What's your view on it?

[Dotini]

Nobody needs extremists in powerful positions. Left, center, right, religious and secular. They're all nuts.

In the US, the situation is so polarized into neocon and neoliberal that they're ALL crazy. I fixed your quote a bit. Making insane policy assumptions like Manifest Destiny, Exceptionalism, nuclear first strike and preemptive war is written in stone here. One of my favorite Euro-loonies is the well-bred, well-educated, well-spoken Tony Blair. He needs to step into well-deserved obscurity.

 

[justin credible]

I doubt they'd outnumber anyone but small sects with those numbers.

But personally, I'm bothered by the thought that some Western countries might have an Islamic majority at this rate before the turn of the century. I like to call it the "demographic disaster" because the former population and culture are effectively getting replaced with something that doesn't properly fit in Western societies. If it did, Islam wouldn't show up in negative light in European news all the time.

The statistical fact seems to be that about half the Moroccans in Netherlands have got in trouble with the law:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2624/moroccan-crime-netherlands

And the scary part is that the growing number of these people could mean that power eventually goes to nutjobs that make Golden Dawn look like moderates.

I agree with your concern that cultures are being replaced with cultures that are not wanted by the original nationality of a said country. Any one moving to a country should accept there rules and cultures and if they don't like it then don't move there, on the other hand I believe if someone moved to the UK and was of a different culture I would respect there culture as long as they don't expect me to convert to there culture just because I respect there ways.

Maybe the reason people in the uk get in trouble with the law is because they are cheating thieving lying criminals and it is becoming the norm in a lot of cities and towns here to have what we call the chav culture who are responsible for a huge amount of crimes and it's getting worse. I know it is a social not race problem but how to stop it is a difficult one to address, Better Education, Better Parenting is things which spring to my mind, Saying a lot of foreignors have got in to trouble with the law is easy but I would suggest if Netherlands is like the UK more of the home grown folk have got in to trouble with the law it's just if your a criminal you will one day run into the police.
In the UK we have already had our nutjobs in charge Thatcher Blair to name two, I think Blair should be in court on war crimes along with Bush but that's another discussion.

 

[Carlos]

I doubt they'd outnumber anyone but small sects with those numbers.

But personally, I'm bothered by the thought that some Western countries might have an Islamic majority at this rate before the turn of the century. I like to call it the "demographic disaster" because the former population and culture are effectively getting replaced with something that doesn't properly fit in Western societies. If it did, Islam wouldn't show up in negative light in European news all the time.

The statistical fact seems to be that about half the young (<- edited for truth) Moroccans in Netherlands have got in trouble with the law:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2624/moroccan-crime-netherlands

And the scary part is that the growing number of these people could mean that power eventually goes to nutjobs that make Golden Dawn look like moderates.

I don't blame the Moroccans for being here, but they really need to stop behaving like nutjobs. Most of them are very aggressive, loud, my way or the highway mentality and I'm pretty convinced they just don't care what we think of them. And it's not a far from my bed show, my best friend his sister dates an Moroccan guy. Last time I came over to let his sister cut my hear and when I put my shoes in the closet I saw a bullet free vest.... And I know he has drug dealing history, his father has been killed in a shooting and his best friend who looks like Wolverine is only just a year out of jail because he has been sentenced for almost 2 years for attempted murder.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with their religion though..

 

[Denur]

@Scaff

I have no idea where the 73% comes from, ....

This is the source. It was reported by a Dutch public broadcasting company (the NCRV) on May 28th 2013. Usually their research is (or appears to be ) thorough and it was repeated by respectable (i.e. no titties on page 3) Dutch newspapers, like the Volkskrant.

The show states that 73% of Dutch Muslims support those going to fight against Assad, while only 8% of non-Muslims do the same.

Or in Dutch:

Het onderzoek laat een groot verschil zien tussen de opvattingen van Nederlandse moslims en autochtonen ten aanzien van Syrië-gangers. Bijna driekwart van de moslims keurt het vertrek naar Syrië om daar mee te vechten tegen het regime van president Assad goed, tegenover slechts acht procent van de autochtonen.

 

[doblocruiser]

I lived in The Hague for 6 years (mid 90ties). It's a village with quite a few cultures. The only issues I encountered were with the Muslim population. Aggressive, inpolite, take every reason to bring violence and terror when they group together. Then I lived another 5 years in the east of the Netherlands. Here there is much less mixture of cultures but the group that caused the problems in this region as well were the Muslim population. Let me say Muslim men.

Meet one on the street, you can have a talk without problem and you think, that was actually a very nice man. See him a few days later with another group of Muslim men and they behave like an aggressive herd who think they have every right to make clear to you that you disgust them, that you don't belong in their world.

There was quite a lot of effort made within Dutch culture to make them feel welcome and respected but it seems that it only worked in one direction. Yes the Dutch respect our beliefs, religion and culture but we don't respect theirs!

Now I won't say that they are facts, they are experiences I have made and this combined with population presented in crimerates and the news comming out almost every day on Islam just confirms the experiences I had. So my opinion will be much more based on a negative view for this religion and the people who practice it.

From my country: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dg...ulation-is-the-most-dangerous-city-in-europe/

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...ning-it-into-the-most-violent-city-in-europe/

http://www.france24.com/en/20130627-debate-Marseille-gangs-out-of-control-part1/

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...-there-still-much-discontent-especially-among

Toulouse is becomming a problem as well, which once again confirms my thoughts!

So then it is up to me not to generalize for the whole Muslim population, but that is not always easy when almost everytime my negative view on Islam or the Muslim population gets confirmed.

I can read in hundred books that Islam is violence and I can read in hundred books that Islam is peace. I can bring in 10 points why Islam is violent, another person will come in here and give another 10 points that show complete the opposite.

For me, the negative view on this religion gets confirmed everytime and the actions of IS and the situation in the south of my country don't really help.

@Denur Thanks for that link.

 

[Scaff]

What's my view on Islam. My view is it is the same as every other religon used by most of it's believers as a way of life respectful and peaceful but ruined by extremists who use it as an excuse to go crazy.
I think Islam gets a bad press does anyone else?
And something to think about to people who have some kind of dislike of muslims. Each year in most countries of the world more babies are born to muslim than any other religon which according to maths means in about 30 years muslims will out number every other religous group by about 10000 to 1. Does this bother me? No not a jot as when I meet people in my walk of life I never even consider there religon. Anyone bothered by this fact or are you all like me and don't give a hoot what religon or even if there religous a person is?

Every single one of those 'studies' that show we are all going to be swamped by Muslims by year 'X' that I have seen to date contains a range of statistical errors and/or outright falsehoods.

Populations in developing countries are increasing at a higher rate that i n developed countries (regardless of religion), populations of first generation immigrants in developed countries are higher than the rest of the population, however once you get to the second generation they fall to a level just above the rest of the population.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-will-britain-have-a-muslim-majority-by-2050/13690

I doubt they'd outnumber anyone but small sects with those numbers.

But personally, I'm bothered by the thought that some Western countries might have an Islamic majority at this rate before the turn of the century. I like to call it the "demographic disaster" because the former population and culture are effectively getting replaced with something that doesn't properly fit in Western societies. If it did, Islam wouldn't show up in negative light in European news all the time.

See above.

The statistical fact seems to be that about half the young (<- edited for truth) Moroccans in Netherlands have got in trouble with the law:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2624/moroccan-crime-netherlands

And the scary part is that the growing number of these people could mean that power eventually goes to nutjobs that make Golden Dawn look like moderates.

Far more likely to be a social issue than a religious one.

I agree with your concern that cultures are being replaced with cultures that are not wanted by the original nationality of a said country. Any one moving to a country should accept there rules and cultures and if they don't like it then don't move there, on the other hand I believe if someone moved to the UK and was of a different culture I would respect there culture as long as they don't expect me to convert to there culture just because I respect there ways.

Quite agree, anyone who says that multi-culturalism is damaging to the UK either doesn't understaind what multiculturalism is or British history.

Maybe the reason people in the uk get in trouble with the law is because they are cheating thieving lying criminals and it is becoming the norm in a lot of cities and towns here to have what we call the chav culture who are responsible for a huge amount of crimes and it's getting worse. I know it is a social not race problem but how to stop it is a difficult one to address, Better Education, Better Parenting is things which spring to my mind, Saying a lot of foreignors have got in to trouble with the law is easy but I would suggest if Netherlands is like the UK more of the home grown folk have got in to trouble with the law it's just if your a criminal you will one day run into the police.

Simply put, No.

Crime rate's across the Western world have been dropping for decades and continue to do so, a fact that has been showing in just about every analysis of the data.

What has changed is we now have competing 24hr news shows that have to fill that space and as the old adage goes, good news doesn't sell.

@Scaff

This is the source. It was reported by a Dutch public broadcasting company (the NCRV) on May 28th 2013. Usually their research is (or appears to be ) thorough and it was repeated by respectable (i.e. no titties on page 3) Dutch newspapers, like the Volkskrant.

The show states that 73% of Dutch Muslims support those going to fight against Assad, while only 8% of non-Muslims do the same.

Or in Dutch:

So as I suspected once you look at the actual survey its a quite different question that was asked.

The question ask was 'do you support people travelling to fight against Assad', which is totally and utterly different from 'do you support people joining IS', given that it was also asked well over a year ago at which point ISIF (as it was then) had only just started to re-emerge.

As such its valid data presented in an utterly misleading and dishonest manner.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Maybe the reason people in the uk get in trouble with the law is because they are cheating thieving lying criminals and it is becoming the norm in a lot of cities and towns here to have what we call the chav culture who are responsible for a huge amount of crimes and it's getting worse. I know it is a social not race problem but how to stop it is a difficult one to address, Better Education, Better Parenting is things which spring to my mind, Saying a lot of foreignors have got in to trouble with the law is easy but I would suggest if Netherlands is like the UK more of the home grown folk have got in to trouble with the law it's just if your a criminal you will one day run into the police.
In the UK we have already had our nutjobs in charge Thatcher Blair to name two, I think Blair should be in court on war crimes along with Bush but that's another discussion.

Actually, if you go by the prison statistics, the foreign prison population is equal to the foreign total population by percent, so saying more of the home grown folk have got into trouble isn't true (assuming you meant by percent, as if you were just going by numbers, well then it's pretty obvious that the largest group should commit the most crimes). And here's some extra information if you're interested on race and religion, between total population and prison population you get;

Race;
White: 88.3%/73.8%
Mixed: 1%/3.9%
Asian: 5.8%/7.9%
Black: 2.8%/13.2%
Chinese(I thought they were Asian but apparently not ) or other: 2.2%/1.2%

Religion;
Christian: 61.3%/50.3%
Muslim: 4%/13.1%
Hindu: 1.5%/0.5%
Sikh: 0.7%/0.9%
Buddhist: 0.5%/2.0%
Jewish: 0.5%/0.3%
Other: 0.5%/1.3%
No religion: 24.1%/29.4%

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN04334.pdfs

I'm trying to find demographics on crimes too, but its proving difficult.

 

[Denur]

I lived in The Hague for 6 years (mid 90ties). It's a village with quite a few cultures. The only issues I encountered were with the Muslim population. Aggressive, inpolite, take every reason to bring violence and terror when they group together. Then I lived another 5 years in the east of the Netherlands. Here there is much less mixture of cultures but the group that caused the problems in this region as well were the Muslim population. Let me say Muslim men.

Are you sure it was the Muslim population in general? My guess is that most were merely of Riffian (Northern part of Morocco) descent and that them being Muslim has nothing to do with their attitude. See here on page 53 section 2 for the first generation distribution. And here that in fact the numbers are improving (shows number of apprehended suspect per 10,000 inhabitants: blue is total, red is native, green is non-western non-native, pink is Moroccan).

 

[doblocruiser]

They are part of the Muslim population in that region, which is mainly Moroc. So yes "Muslim population" in that specific region which were causing the issues! Not talking about the ones that make an effort in Dutch society.

 

[Scaff]

They are part of the Muslim population in that region, which is mainly Moroc. So yes "Muslim population" in that specific region which were causing the issues! Not talking about the ones that make an effort in Dutch society.

I have to be honest that's not even remotely how your posts come across.

Rather they come across as you targeting the majority for the actions of a minority. In which case you must be really angry at everyone!

 

[doblocruiser]

@Scaff I wrote in a previous post that it is up to me not to generalize. Which is not always easy. I used to be very open and tolerant but my view has changed. In way I find that sad and in another way it has put me with 2 feet back on the ground. Tolerant and naïve go easily hand in hand and I learned that the hard way. I sometimes wonder if maybe I got narrow minded or more narrow minded but it's not true. I have zero issues with other cultures/religions I have experienced and I have several different cultures within my family. It's just with Islam that I get a very negative taste in my mouth. And this negative taste gets confirmed time after time.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff I wrote in a previous post that it is up to me not to generalize. Which is not always easy. I used to be very open and tolerant but my view has changed. In way I find that sad and in another way it has put me with 2 feet back on the ground.

I suggest you start trying a bit more to stop generalizing, as its not helping how you come across here at all.

Tolerant and naïve go easily hand in hand and I learned that the hard way.

They don't have to at all, in fact I would argue the exact opposite, intolerance goes far more hand in had with naivety and ignorance.

I'm very, very tolerant of anyone, as long as the beliefs they hold do not impose on the rights of others. Should they I will then be critical, but at the right level, as first and foremost we are responsible for our own actions.

I sometimes wonder if maybe I got narrow minded or more narrow minded but it's not true. I have zero issues with other cultures/religions I have experienced and I have several different cultures within my family.

Which would be great if you don't then go on to contradict yourself in the very next sentence.

It's just with Islam that I get a very negative taste in my mouth. And this negative taste gets confirmed time after time.

So you have met members of every sect within Islam and all the people from a range of backgrounds and countries?

It strikes me as if you are now looking for an impression to be fore-filled.

I've lived and worked with Muslims from most of North Africa and the Middle East (include in that Tunisia, Eygpt, Jordan, Saudi, Kuwait, Oman, Quatar, Barhain and the UAE as a staring point) and I help run a division of the company I work for based in the Middle East and my father worked in the Gulf states for over a decade.

The vast majority of muslims I came across in the years from 1991 to today are no different that any other group of people I come across, some are great, some are idiots, some are offensive, most are simply normal (and most are moderate and many relatively 'casual' in terms of observance).

Issues with some muslim populations in the west has more to do with social stigma and poverty than it does with religion, as such it may be more accurate to say that you are uncomfortable around those from a demographic that is socially isolated and poor. Now fixing that kind of thing is both expensive and difficult for politicians to do, and it rarely wins votes, however appeal to the politics of fear and away you go.

 

[Carbonox]

Simply put, No.

Crime rate's across the Western world have been dropping for decades and continue to do so, a fact that has been showing in just about every analysis of the data.

What has changed is we now have competing 24hr news shows that have to fill that space and as the old adage goes, good news doesn't sell.

'Ey, I didn't say the part you quoted here.

Also, I'm afraid that while poverty often plays a part in immigrant youth crime rates, there's another problem that I consider even worse, namely certain people's attitudes. This is from the link I posted last night:

"So who is to blame for the failure of Moroccans to integrate into Dutch society and the attendant epidemic of Moroccan youth criminality?

According to Dutch journalist Fleur Jurgens in her book, "The Moroccan Drama" (Het Marokkanendrama), the blame lies with two groups: the Moroccans, who say the Dutch are responsible for their circumstances, and leftwing multiculturalists, who have portrayed Moroccans as the defenseless victims of an unfair society."

I can't understand what the leftists' motives are, whitewashing basically anything except white ethnic Europeans, but in fairness, it doesn't seem nice. People blame Wilders and friends for extremism, but isn't a destruction of society by bringing in criminals and terrorists, and allowing them to do whatever they want due to being "defenseless victims" far worse?

 

[Scaff]

'Ey, I didn't say the part you quoted here.

Also, I'm afraid that while poverty often plays a part in immigrant youth crime rates, there's another problem that I consider even worse, namely certain people's attitudes. This is from the link I posted last night:

"So who is to blame for the failure of Moroccans to integrate into Dutch society and the attendant epidemic of Moroccan youth criminality?

According to Dutch journalist Fleur Jurgens in her book, "The Moroccan Drama" (Het Marokkanendrama), the blame lies with two groups: the Moroccans, who say the Dutch are responsible for their circumstances, and leftwing multiculturalists, who have portrayed Moroccans as the defenseless victims of an unfair society."

I can't understand what the leftists' motives are, whitewashing basically anything except white ethnic Europeans, but in fairness, it doesn't seem nice. People blame Wilders and friends for extremism, but isn't a destruction of society by bringing in criminals and terrorists, and allowing them to do whatever they want due to being "defenseless victims" far worse?

Sorry, multi quote gone mad. However in reply to your post, neither angle it's acceptable, those who scape goat and those who excuse without reason are both a part of the problem.

 

[Scaff]

Anti IS viral campaign......

http://mic.com/articles/98090/musli...g-on-isis-with-their-own-ice-bucket-challenge

.....seems (despite the many claims by some in this thread) that support fro IS is not a 'given' among muslims, nor are the just siting by and not speaking out. I do wonder how many main-stream media outlets will pick up in this?

 

[zzz_pt]

 

[Dennisch]

Ah Hans Teeuwen. That's one of the funniest guys you'll ever come across.

 

[Denur]

Ah yes, Hans Teeuwen. Love the guy.
Google "Hans Teeuwen Live in London, Little God". Not linking it because of language, but good for a laugh.

 

[zzz_pt]

WARNING: LANGUAGE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0sRmpvdIIk

Muslims go crazy during anti-islamic movie sweden

 

[Joel]

I don't know what's worse, the rise of Muslim extremism, or the ammunition it's giving to rile up xenophobia. Here's a fun thought exercise, let's take a look at some of these quotes and pretend it's this guy saying it:

Somehow I don't think people would be as easily swayed by his arguments.

But personally, I'm bothered by the thought that some Western countries might have an Islamic majority at this rate before the turn of the century. I like to call it the "demographic disaster" because the former population and culture are effectively getting replaced with something that doesn't properly fit in Western societies. If it did, Islam wouldn't show up in negative light in European news all the time.

"Personally, I'm worried that America might have a black majority at this rate by the turn of the century. It'll be a disaster, American culture will be replaced with something that doesn't properly fit in in American society. If their culture fit in, you wouldn't see them making trouble on the news all the time."

The statistical fact seems to be that about half the young (<- edited for truth) Moroccans in Netherlands have got in trouble with the law:

"Statistical fact is that 59% of people in US prisons for drug crimes are black. Don't know what it is but they just can't keep out of trouble like we can."

Meet one on the street, you can have a talk without problem and you think, that was actually a very nice man. See him a few days later with another group of Muslim men and they behave like an aggressive herd who think they have every right to make clear to you that you disgust them, that you don't belong in their world.

Meet a black guy on the street and he actually talks like a normal person. See him in a group with other black guys later and they act like a bunch of gangsters who own the place.

For me, the negative view on this religion gets confirmed everytime and the actions of IS and the situation in the south of my country don't really help.

So that leaves it up to whites not to generalize about blacks. Not easy when every time I see them in the news it's for something negative. I've read stuff about them being criminals and seen stats, and someone else shows the opposite. It's just that every time I see them they're always causing trouble.

All I can say is that for me the negative views on blacks are confirmed every time, the actions of the Black Panthers and the situation in Detroit don't really help either.

 

[zzz_pt]

I wouldn't mind if my country was governed by black people.

In the other hand,

In a country ruled by muslims, I would be killed (like in Saudi Arabia, where atheists are killed because it's illegal according to sharia law).

Just to say that I find the comparison pointless.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I don't know what's worse, the rise of Muslim extremism, or the ammunition it's giving to rile up xenophobia. Here's a fun thought exercise, let's take a look at some of these quotes and pretend it's this guy saying it:

Somehow I don't think people would be as easily swayed by his arguments.



"Personally, I'm worried that America might have a black majority at this rate by the turn of the century. It'll be a disaster, American culture will be replaced with something that doesn't properly fit in in American society. If their culture fit in, you wouldn't see them making trouble on the news all the time."



"Statistical fact is that 59% of people in US prisons for drug crimes are black. Don't know what it is but they just can't keep out of trouble like we can."



Meet a black guy on the street and he actually talks like a normal person. See him in a group with other black guys later and they act like a bunch of gangsters who own the place.



So that leaves it up to whites not to generalize about blacks. Not easy when every time I see them in the news it's for something negative. I've read stuff about them being criminals and seen stats, and someone else shows the opposite. It's just that every time I see them they're always causing trouble.

All I can say is that for me the negative views on blacks are confirmed every time, the actions of the Black Panthers and the situation in Detroit don't really help either.

You seriously cannot compare skin colours with a religion.

 

[Joel]

I wouldn't mind if my country was governed by black people.

In the other hand,

In a country ruled by muslims, I would be killed (like in Saudi Arabia, where atheists are killed because it's illegal according to sharia law).

Just to say that I find the comparison pointless.

Missing the point entirely, and conveniently omitting Turkey from your rebuttal.

It's not about comparing Saudi Arabia to Rwanda or Pakistan or Ethiopia or anywhere. It's about comparing the way Europeans are talking about Muslims with the way racist Americans spoke about black people. You wouldn't accept the arguments if Jimbo said them about black people, but making statistically misleading arguments about muslims is apparently OK because Saudi Arabia.

You seriously cannot compare skin colours with a religion.

Why not?

 

[Spurgy 777]

Why not?

Well my guess would be that skin colour doesn't have a direct influence on your beliefs and world view, whereas religion does. And people generally act based upon their world view, therefore religion has a direct influence on your actions.

 

[zzz_pt]

Missing the point entirely, and conveniently omitting Turkey from your rebuttal.

It's not about comparing Saudi Arabia to Rwanda or Pakistan or Ethiopia or anywhere. It's about comparing the way Europeans are talking about Muslims with the way racist Americans spoke about black people. You wouldn't accept the arguments if Jimbo said them about black people, but making statistically misleading arguments about muslims is apparently OK because Saudi Arabia.


Why not?

Turkey isn't based on sharia law, the law of islam. So it's not a muslim ruled government. But it's not a paradise either.

And no. You're comparing skin color to religion. Skin color doesn't give you a view of the world with strict morals and laws allegedly given by a god.

Black people don't demand the killing of cartoonists...

I accept facts. And it's a fact that islam is a threat in Europe. Northen europe is struggling with this right now. Just look at sweden, netherlands, denmark, norway. This people have a huge problem in hands.
Black people aren't a threat to anyone's freedom at least I'm not aware of that.

 

[Scaff]

I wouldn't mind if my country was governed by black people.

In the other hand,

In a country ruled by muslims, I would be killed (like in Saudi Arabia, where atheists are killed because it's illegal according to sharia law).

Just to say that I find the comparison pointless.

The problem you have is not with Muslim governments, but with religious governments/governing bodies.

I can think of quite a few non-muslim countries that would persecute you for being an Atheist to one degree or another. At the lower end of the scale you can't hold office as an Atheist is a number of US states.

A secular government/governing body will better protect your rights, regardless of the dominant religion of the country in question.

 

[zzz_pt]

The problem you have is not with Muslim governments, but with religious governments/governing bodies.

I can think of quite a few non-muslim countries that would persecute you for being an Atheist to one degree or another. At the lower end of the scale you can't hold office as an Atheist is a number of US states.

A secular government/governing body will better protect your rights, regardless of the dominant religion of the country in question.

I know that In North Korea for example or Uganda.

But this was brought up in a comparison between an ethnic group and a religion.

BTW, it's a shame that in the US, the first secular country in the world, an atheist isn't even allowed to run for office in several states.

 

[Scaff]

I know that In North Korea for example or Uganda.

I think dictatorships are another topic again.

But this was brought up in a comparison between an ethnic group and a religion.

A comparison that still has a degree of accuracy to it.

A person can follow religion X and still be tolerant, just as country X can have Y as a dominant religion and be tolerant. As such to aim the accusation at a person or group for the religion they follow is arguable a degree of intolerance, just as it would be (but to a differing degree one could argue) if you did it based on race.

BTW, it's a shame that in the US, the first secular country in the world, an atheist isn't even allowed to run for office in several states.

I quite agree. Its also worth noting that some of the largest Muslim countries have a better track record of female leaders voted into office than the US does.

 

[Rage Racer]

In a country ruled by muslims, I would be killed (like in Saudi Arabia, where atheists are killed because it's illegal according to sharia law).

No, you wouldn't in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkey or any other secular state with Muslim majotity.
In a country ruled by Islamists, however, you probably would.

 

[Scaff]

No, you wouldn't in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Turkey or any other secular state with Muslim majotity.
In a country ruled by Islamists, however, you probably would.

Again not quite true, it would have to be a Muslim country that used Sharia for its legal system, which again is not all of them.

I've also travelled and worked in Saudi, so death is not immediate and they fortunately haven't developed the Atheist sniffer dog yet.