Islam - What's your view on it?

[kennylmao]

WARNING: LANGUAGE

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0sRmpvdIIk

Muslims go crazy during anti-islamic movie sweden

Lmao, primitive minds; driven by emotion rather than logic. It's 2014 and it's sad that people like these exist.

I love the word "Allahu Akbar". It's such a surreal feeling shouting "God is great". When your friend gets shot, God is great. When someone blows up, God is great. When a movie turns bad and you get mad, God, is, great.

 

[BobK]

At the lower end of the scale you can't hold office as an Atheist is a number of US states.

Would you care to expound on that a bit and tell us which states these are? I know there used to be such but I'd be shocked to discover that's still the case.

 

[zzz_pt]

Would you care to expound on that a bit and tell us which states these are? I know there used to be such but I'd be shocked to discover that's still the case.

http://mic.com/articles/93215/if-you-re-atheist-don-t-plan-on-running-for-office-in-these-8-states

 

[Carbonox]

Based on those percentages, I'd have thought atheists have, at some point of history, made a terrorist attack against the White House.

 

[GBO Possum]

Bill Maher on the differences between Islam and other religions. 4 minutes

 

[BobK]

http://mic.com/articles/93215/if-you-re-atheist-don-t-plan-on-running-for-office-in-these-8-states

Thanks for that information.

On reading the article, though, it seems that the only reason the laws are still on the books is because they haven't been enforced. If an attempt were actually made to ban an atheist from office, the courts would overturn the law. They can't preemptively overturn the law, though; someone has to be formally accused of violating it first.

 

[zzz_pt]

Thanks for that information.

On reading the article, though, it seems that the only reason the laws are still on the books is because they haven't been enforced. If an attempt were actually made to ban an atheist from office, the courts would overturn the law. They can't preemptively overturn the law, though; someone has to be formally accused of violating it first.

Probably yes

But from what I see and hear, even in the other states where it's legal, if the person running for office says openly he's/she's an atheist, he won't be elected. I wish I was wrong though.

 

[eran0004]

I lived in The Hague for 6 years (mid 90ties). It's a village with quite a few cultures. The only issues I encountered were with the Muslim population. Aggressive, inpolite, take every reason to bring violence and terror when they group together. Then I lived another 5 years in the east of the Netherlands. Here there is much less mixture of cultures but the group that caused the problems in this region as well were the Muslim population. Let me say Muslim men.

Meet one on the street, you can have a talk without problem and you think, that was actually a very nice man. See him a few days later with another group of Muslim men and they behave like an aggressive herd who think they have every right to make clear to you that you disgust them, that you don't belong in their world.

There was quite a lot of effort made within Dutch culture to make them feel welcome and respected but it seems that it only worked in one direction. Yes the Dutch respect our beliefs, religion and culture but we don't respect theirs!

Now I won't say that they are facts, they are experiences I have made and this combined with population presented in crimerates and the news comming out almost every day on Islam just confirms the experiences I had. So my opinion will be much more based on a negative view for this religion and the people who practice it.

From my country: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dg...ulation-is-the-most-dangerous-city-in-europe/

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com...ning-it-into-the-most-violent-city-in-europe/

http://www.france24.com/en/20130627-debate-Marseille-gangs-out-of-control-part1/

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...-there-still-much-discontent-especially-among

Toulouse is becomming a problem as well, which once again confirms my thoughts!

So then it is up to me not to generalize for the whole Muslim population, but that is not always easy when almost everytime my negative view on Islam or the Muslim population gets confirmed.

I can read in hundred books that Islam is violence and I can read in hundred books that Islam is peace. I can bring in 10 points why Islam is violent, another person will come in here and give another 10 points that show complete the opposite.

For me, the negative view on this religion gets confirmed everytime and the actions of IS and the situation in the south of my country don't really help.

I'd say it's a young men thing, not a muslim thing. I grew up in a 90% atheist 10% christian environment and had the exact same problems. The difference is that they had the same ethnicity and religious background as myself so I didn't connect their stupid behaviour with skin colour or religious beliefs, I just connected it to them being idiots. You should do the same, because it has absolutely nothing to do with them being muslims other than perhaps being a reason for them to stick together.

When I got older and got my first apartment I lived next door to a muslim woman and her son for 3-4 years and they were the nicest neighbours I've ever had.

This summer I did a community project in an area with a lot of immigrants and most of the participants were muslim children. No problems at all. These 8-year-olds have gone through much harder struggles than I have at 28, just the fact that you're living in a country where you're not welcome - can you even begin to imagine what that must be like?

The actions of IS is about as representative for islam as the actions of Ku Klux Klan is for christianity.

Websites like frontpagemag.com and themuslimissue.wordpress.com are just ******** from beginning to end. Propaganda developed with the single purpose of causing polarization and conflict.

And when it all comes down to it, how on Earth can I judge other people when the people of my background, ethnicity and culture are so stupid that they vote a racist party founded by an SS-veteran to be the third biggest in our parliament?

People are the same all over the world. Don't let the different cultures and ethnicities fool you. Idiots are everywhere. They don't represent their ethnicity or religion or culture anymore than your idiots represent you.

If you don't have any muslim friends I'd advice you to get some.

 

[Carbonox]

And when it all comes down to it, how on Earth can I judge other people when the people of my background, ethnicity and culture are so stupid that they vote a racist party founded by an SS-veteran to be the third biggest in our parliament?

You're Swedish, right? I feel ashamed to think that a country that once used to be great has become a ridiculous pseudo-democracy where one party is bullied and pissed on by everyone else merely for thinking Sweden should stop taking in the overwhelming number of refugees from unstable countries and cultures.

I for one am glad the Sweden Democrats keep on growing despite the major opposition, which has included death threats and even open violence from leftists. I haven't seen a Sweden Democrat member or supporter drop a freaking bomb into anyone's apartment.

 

[eran0004]

You're Swedish, right? I feel ashamed to think that a country that once used to be great has become a ridiculous pseudo-democracy where one party is bullied and pissed on by everyone else merely for thinking Sweden should stop taking in the overwhelming number of refugees from unstable countries and cultures.

I for one am glad the Sweden Democrats keep on growing despite the major opposition, which has included death threats and even open violence from leftists. I haven't seen a Sweden Democrat member or supporter drop a freaking bomb into anyone's apartment.

I used to be.

In what way are the SD bullied? That's just ********.

 

[Spurgy 777]

If you don't have any muslim friends I'd advice you to get some.

Why? From the rest of what you said, surely there's no need to look for specific people to be friends with?

 

[Carbonox]

I used to be.

In what way are the SD bullied? That's just ********.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats#Controversies

The Sweden Democrats have complained about difficulties buying advertising space due to the media banning the party from advertisement,[97] which has been criticised by free speech organisations.[98] On June 16, 2006, however Dagens Nyheter and Svenska Dagbladet decided to stop their boycott. Expressen though still retains the ban on Sweden Democrat advertising.[99]

http://web.archive.org/web/20070927...rt.asp?ChapterID=239&CountryID=51&ReportID=83

Only one of the many examples. Then there's the violence, one of the targets of which was the party's former youth leader, and his girlfriend who I guess was just unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, right?

http://books.google.fi/books?id=Kwb...#v=onepage&q=martin kinnunen attacked&f=false

And that wasn't even the only violent incident, as you can see by reading forward.

I'd also like to present you a question about why the party's leader, Jimmie Åkesson, requires such police protection while holding speeches, especially in immigrant-dominated areas. Certainly political violence shouldn't exist in such a civilized state as Sweden? I'd have left that sick hellhole behind long ago if I was unlucky to be born within its borders.

 

[eran0004]

Why? From the rest of what you said, surely there's no need to look for specific people to be friends with?

There is all the reason if you have prejudices against a certain group of people.

 

[Furinkazen]

There is all the reason if you have prejudices against a certain group of people.

Where has @Spurgy 777 mentioned having a prejudice?

 

[eran0004]

Where has @Spurgy 777 mentioned having a prejudice?

Here, for instance:

So then it is up to me not to generalize for the whole Muslim population, but that is not always easy when almost everytime my negative view on Islam or the Muslim population gets confirmed.

 

[Carbonox]

Here, for instance:

@Spurgy 777 totally said that.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Here, for instance:

I haven't said that, you must be quoting the wrong person

 

[eran0004]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats#Controversies

The Sweden Democrats have complained about difficulties buying advertising space due to the media banning the party from advertisement,[97] which has been criticised by free speech organisations.[98] On June 16, 2006, however Dagens Nyheter and Svenska Dagbladet decided to stop their boycott. Expressen though still retains the ban on Sweden Democrat advertising.[99]

http://web.archive.org/web/20070927...rt.asp?ChapterID=239&CountryID=51&ReportID=83

Only one of the many examples. Then there's the violence, one of the targets of which was the party's former youth leader, and his girlfriend who I guess was just unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, right?

http://books.google.fi/books?id=KwbZUEI3yjMC&pg=PT251&lpg=PT251&dq=martin kinnunen attacked&source=bl&ots=nDUBwHPL5U&sig=KUUrEO99hGBRvexi1qZK4RCwOlM&hl=fi&sa=X&ei=wSkWVKCrC8XOygPtq4L4Cw&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=martin kinnunen attacked&f=false

And that wasn't even the only violent incident, as you can see by reading forward.

I'd also like to present you a question about why the party's leader, Jimmie Åkesson, requires such police protection while holding speeches, especially in immigrant-dominated areas. Certainly political violence shouldn't exist in such a civilized state as Sweden? I'd have left that sick hellhole behind long ago if I was unlucky to be born within its borders.

The Sweden Democrats comes straight from the white-supremacy movement. Their founding fathers (in 1988) and their first leaders used to be active in neo-nazi groups. Up until 2006 they used neo-nazi symbolism but then they started a rebranding that also included kicking out all neo-nazi members. Today their politics is based on xenophobia and populism. For such a party to be banned by media back in 2006 is not surprising.

As for the other points your raising, that's not bullying. Those are attacks by radical left-wing groups and that is also the reason for the police protection. Ordinary people just turn their backs at him or booh him out when he speaks (as is our right). The threat is not greater in immigrant-dominated areas than in any other place. The fact that there is a threat (although it's very minor, AFA is mostly busy fighting the SvP) does not in any way justify their politics.

If you want to discuss sick hellholes you might want to start with the one you're standing in.

@Spurgy 777 totally said that.

No, I didn't check the username. I just took for granted that because the post was relating to doblocruiser, it was him he was asking about.

 

[GBO Possum]

There is all the reason if you have prejudices against a certain group of people.

Here is an example of a failed opportunity to befriend a Muslim couple.

My wife meets this apparently nice guy at work and they work together for some time, no issues. He's from Pakistan. Somewhat chauvinistic, but my wife can put chauvinism back in its place! She (my wife) suggests that next time he's traveling in our home area, he bring his wife along and we can have a meal or two together. The four of us. In our home. This guy travels a lot, his wife is feeling isolated and lonely, so some company seems like a good thing. We'd like to open our home to this couple.

It all fell apart when he said that his wife could eat at our home, but she'd have to eat in another room since she has to keep her face hidden at all times from men.

Personally, I think one of the most natural ways of getting to connect with people is over a nice meal. And, in the interests of more effective communication, being able to see one another's facial expressions is an important part of that communication.

He said he'd be happy to have his wife show her face if I left the room, or left the house.

I feel like the husband doesn't trust me, that I'd be inflamed with passion if I saw his wife's face and I wouldn't be able to control myself.

You can put this down to "cultural" differences, or whatever, however - they are living in America, taking a job (she's not allowed to work of course). We humans have evolved with finely tuned methods of communication, which include facial expressions. A curl of the lip, a half smile, a full smile, a tightening of the cheeks, movement of the eyebrows and so on all add nuances to the spoken word. Let's face it, the spoken word needs help. It is full of ambiguity, and we all know how much less effective a phone call is than face to face. It's why we like FaceTime, Skype or other equivalents.

So that ended that attempt at reaching out beyond the divide.

Maybe I shouldn't feel rejected, but I do. My wife and I chose not to take this relationship any further. The guy's wife apparently got lonelier and lonelier.

 

[eran0004]

Here is an example of a failed opportunity to befriend a Muslim couple.

My wife meets this apparently nice guy at work and they work together for some time, no issues. He's from Pakistan. Somewhat chauvinistic, but my wife can put chauvinism back in its place! She (my wife) suggests that next time he's traveling in our home area, he bring his wife along and we can have a meal or two together. The four of us. In our home. This guy travels a lot, his wife is feeling isolated and lonely, so some company seems like a good thing. We'd like to open our home to this couple.

It all fell apart when he said that his wife could eat at our home, but she'd have to eat in another room since she has to keep her face hidden at all times from men.

Personally, I think one of the most natural ways of getting to connect with people is over a nice meal. And, in the interests of more effective communication, being able to see one another's facial expressions is an important part of that communication.

He said he'd be happy to have his wife show her face if I left the room, or left the house.

I feel like the husband doesn't trust me, that I'd be inflamed with passion if I saw his wife's face and I wouldn't be able to control myself.

You can put this down to "cultural" differences, or whatever, however - they are living in America, taking a job (she's not allowed to work of course). We humans have evolved with finely tuned methods of communication, which include facial expressions. A curl of the lip, a half smile, a full smile, a tightening of the cheeks, movement of the eyebrows and so on all add nuances to the spoken word. Let's face it, the spoken word needs help. It is full of ambiguity, and we all know how much less effective a phone call is than face to face. It's why we like FaceTime, Skype or other equivalents.

So that ended that attempt at reaching out beyond the divide.

Maybe I shouldn't feel rejected, but I do. My wife and I chose not to take this relationship any further. The guy's wife apparently got lonelier and lonelier.

You should talk to them and explain how it made you feel (if you haven't done that already). See if you can work something out. If not, well then at least you tried.

I don't personally know any muslim women that cover their face, I guess those that I know are more liberal, most of them don't even cover their hair most of the time. So there are no problems with the communication there.

 

[Scaff]

You should talk to them and explain how it made you feel (if you haven't done that already). See if you can work something out. If not, well then at least you tried.

I don't personally know any muslim women that cover their face, I guess those that I know are more liberal, most of them don't even cover their hair most of the time. So there are no problems with the communication there.

The vast, vast majority don't.

Its a bit like claiming that the majority of christian women dress like Quakers.

 

[doblocruiser]

A nice article

Sorry Google translate

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/het-gaat-niet-om-de-vrijheid-een-hoofddoek-te-dragen-maar-om-de-vrijheid-van-anderen/article-opinion-327097.html&edit-text=&act=url

another interesting one:

Muslims are the main perpetrators of anti-Semitic attacks on Jews, according to the Jewish watchdog BNVCA, or the National Bureau of Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism

http://forward.com/articles/205670/why-are-so-many-french-jews-voting-for-front-natio/?

 

[eran0004]

A nice article

Sorry Google translate

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/het-gaat-niet-om-de-vrijheid-een-hoofddoek-te-dragen-maar-om-de-vrijheid-van-anderen/article-opinion-327097.html&edit-text=&act=url

So he's also against the kippah, I presume? Since religious symbols should not be visible in the public space according to him (if I read the crappy translation right). What about wedding rings? What about a tattoo with christian symbolics? What about women having long hair - is that a christian symbol? It says in the bible that women have been given long hair as a veil, to cover herself.

Is he in fact arguing for covering symbols?

So then, muslim women should take off their veils, while christian women should put on a veil. Only, when they do, their veil will show that they are christian, and thus it must be removed. Only, then they would show their hair, thus it must be put on again. Etc. etc.

What about buddhist monks with their shaved heads? Is that a religious symbol?

 

[Scaff]

A nice article

Sorry Google translate

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/het-gaat-niet-om-de-vrijheid-een-hoofddoek-te-dragen-maar-om-de-vrijheid-van-anderen/article-opinion-327097.html&edit-text=&act=url

An opinion piece on why Muslims shouldn't be able to have the choice to wear religious garb or the trappings of religion, what's not clear (as he is basing it on the rights of others to not be offended - which in itself is nonsense, you would have to ban everything) is if it should be extended to all religions.

another interesting one:
http://forward.com/articles/205670/why-are-so-many-french-jews-voting-for-front-natio/?

And?

What a huge surprise. Here's another one for you, all attacks on the British during the Irish troubles were carried out by Catholic Christians.

Attempting to link the actions of the few to the whole group is populist noise and nonsense. The vast majority of Muslims have no problem with Jews (here's a question for you - how many Jews live in Iran), just as the vast majority of Christians have no issue with the British.

 

[Carbonox]

What about buddhist monks with their shaved heads? Is that a religious symbol?

A shaved head doesn't at least conceal your identity.

The Sweden Democrats comes straight from the white-supremacy movement. Their founding fathers (in 1988) and their first leaders used to be active in neo-nazi groups. Up until 2006 they used neo-nazi symbolism but then they started a rebranding that also included kicking out all neo-nazi members. Today their politics is based on xenophobia and populism. For such a party to be banned by media back in 2006 is not surprising.

Not surprising? I've heard of Front National and plenty other parties also being blamed for xenophobia, but the media in their countries doesn't go as far as completely sidelining them to ensure they would gain no votes.

Based on your post, you're just another one of those who thinks cencorship is justified because you - and leftist parties in general - don't like the party's views.

As for the other points your raising, that's not bullying. Those are attacks by radical left-wing groups and that is also the reason for the police protection. Ordinary people just turn their backs at him or booh him out when he speaks (as is our right). The threat is not greater in immigrant-dominated areas than in any other place. The fact that there is a threat (although it's very minor, AFA is mostly busy fighting the SvP) does not in any way justify their politics.

You didn't answer why political violence is allowed to exist in Sweden. If it wasn't, groups like AFA who have no purpose other than threaten and attack people branded as "extreme right wingers" wouldn't exist.

If you want to discuss sick hellholes you might want to start with the one you're standing in.

At least my country doesn't have burning suburbs where public workers like mailmen don't go to because their lives could be on the line, or discrimination against parties in the form of "accidentally" disappearing votes.

Oh, and my country isn't the rape capital of Europe.

 

[GBO Possum]

You should talk to them and explain how it made you feel (if you haven't done that already). See if you can work something out. If not, well then at least you tried.

I don't personally know any muslim women that cover their face, I guess those that I know are more liberal, most of them don't even cover their hair most of the time. So there are no problems with the communication there.

My wife tried that, and to no avail. The rule was the rule, and that's that.

And we chose not to take it any further, since with such a massive distance between our norms of behavior in this case, we anticipated that there would be others as well. He seemed like a nice enough person, but with no characteristics which provided reasons to pursue a relationship other than our natural compassion for people who feel isolated and might like some human interaction.

Edit:

A shaved head doesn't at least conceal your identity.

<snip>

Oh, and my country isn't the rape capital of Europe.

In my opinion, there is a difference between a kippah and a totally concealed body. The latter I find just creepy and slightly scary. It reminds me of a Halloween costume I once wore which scared the carp out of the neighborhood kids.

That said, when I see anyone wearing any advertisement for their religion, I feel a sense of sorrow.

Moving on to your link to the article on the "rape capital", it goes on to point out that police statistics vary from place to place, and that the numbers out of Sweden probably don't reflect reality.

 

[Blitz24]

To be technical, aren't all Muslim anti-Semitic attacks essentially attacking themselves because they are Semitic as well? (Except for Africa).

 

[Scaff]

To be technical, aren't all Muslim anti-Semitic attacks essentially attacking themselves because they are Semitic as well? (Except for Africa).

From a religious trail point of view it is a bit like beating up your grandfather (with Christianity being your dad), so yes its odd.

However a lot about every religion is odd.

 

[VolkswagenX]

A nice article

Sorry Google translate

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/het-gaat-niet-om-de-vrijheid-een-hoofddoek-te-dragen-maar-om-de-vrijheid-van-anderen/article-opinion-327097.html&edit-text=&act=url

another interesting one:

Muslims are the main perpetrators of anti-Semitic attacks on Jews, according to the Jewish watchdog BNVCA, or the National Bureau of Vigilance Against Anti-Semitism


http://forward.com/articles/205670/why-are-so-many-french-jews-voting-for-front-natio/?

Lol

 

[Carbonox]

Lol

Thank you for this informative contribution to the discussion 👍