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Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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Nowhere near as creepy as "I asked for a peppermint, I asked for her to get one" though.You mean this?
Keef
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Posting in this thread because apparently the Eurozone is about money. I'm only interested in Europe's view on the Muslim situation, really.
Seems that German group is a mixture of many viewpoints, anything from reasonably concerned citizens to fascist sympathizers.
Also, I have a stereotype that French people are super racist against Middle Eastern folk. Is that true? Yeah, I realize everybody supports the artists and whatnot but that's convenient given the circumstances. Overall, it seems to me that Europe and especially France are quite anti-Muslim.
Seems that German group is a mixture of many viewpoints, anything from reasonably concerned citizens to fascist sympathizers.
Also, I have a stereotype that French people are super racist against Middle Eastern folk. Is that true? Yeah, I realize everybody supports the artists and whatnot but that's convenient given the circumstances. Overall, it seems to me that Europe and especially France are quite anti-Muslim.
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I post this as a Canadian eating a roasted pork belly to say that surveys indicate that Europe is particularly anti-Muslim...if you can believe surveys that is:
74% of French people surveyed think Islam is incompatible with French Society
Source for above ^^
Scaff
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I think all religion is incompatible with society in general, that doesn't make me anti-religion.
The vast majority of people surveyed also think that rough 2 to 3 times more immigrants exist in countries than they actually do, as such survey results should always be treated with a degree of caution as how the question is asked can have a huge effect on the answers you get.
I do however note that you don't bother to quote the very last line of the article you used as a source.....
" The overall national average of anti-Muslim sentiment was 27%."
.....so around 70% of those surveyed don't have an anti-Muslim sentiment, showing that Europe is not particularity anti-Muslim. That would seem to rather back up what I was saying based on my experience of being European, working in Europe and the Middle East and the attitudes I find from the very wide range of people I come across.
Scaff
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I still believe it depends to a degree on the person.
On Monday (in Dubai) I was introduced to a gent who stated (as a joke I have to be clear) "I'm an Arab so I will be your terrorist for the day", to which I replied "You can't be, I've got a bigger and better beard than you, so it's got to be me".
A joke on both parties side and a new friend who is quite clearly able to put the situation and potential attitudes of others into context.
On the other hand in Europe tension are a little higher than normal, but given the Paris attacks that is no surprise, the same thing happened to anyone with an Irish accent after an attack during the troubles. Doesn't make it the norm.
Dotini
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No worries. When the youth unemployment rate exceeds 50%, it'll be time for the elites to give away free pornographic cable TV, booze, drugs, psychedelics, Viagra and anti-depressants to head off social unrest. A trifling price to pay to maintain order. Eventually these soporific measures could be curtailed, as social order will be maintained by invincible AI robots. Even the police and army can be laid off to enjoy more leisure time and creative pursuits!
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- 28,470
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If you generalize that 27% anti-Muslim sentiment to Europe that's only 200,000,000 so I guess that's not widespread. I mean what's 200,000,000 people? Drop in the bucket right?
Just curious, what would the number have to be to be particularly widespread? 300,000,000? 400,000,000? Everyone?
Joel
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What I've noticed being here is that most people who say something negative about a religious group say it about Muslims, but I haven't heard very many people saying things about any religious group. I will say that I've heard people in Europe (and seen it on these forums) say things about Muslims that I couldn't imagine hearing someone in Canada say publicly about any group (except for Aboriginals), but overall I don't think there's a huge anti-Muslim sentiment here. France was historically Christian (mostly Catholic) and even though the religion itself isn't a big part of French society anymore, France is still culturally Western/Catholic. They observe Christian holidays, school breaks for Christmas, etc, and even though people might no believe in it or go to church, the majority is still culturally Catholic. So as in any society, the dominant culture is the baseline normal that other cultures are perceived against.
My thoughts are that it's because French society and people are very big on "Laïcité", which translates to a combination of secularism and separation of Church and State as a concept, and it's something that goes beyond laws and permeates through the society (far more than it does in the US or Canada). About 40% of people don't believe there's a God or any spiritual force, around 30% are spiritual, and another 30% believe in God, and there's a sense that religion is something that should remain personal and private. It's not illegal to talk about it in public, but people just don't because it's seen as an inappropriate way to pry into someone's private life.
A Jew, Catholic, and Protestant walk into a French bakery. They all buy their baguettes, and none of the three know anything or had any thought of the other people's religion. A Muslim of Algerian descent, born in Paris walks into the same bakery. Now suddenly despite him being dressed the same way, speaking the same language, and being born in the same place as the other 3, there's something different here that means where religion otherwise wouldn't have been something that crossed your mind, now it's something that you might think about. Then there's just that in my experience Muslims in France do seem to display religious symbols more often than Judeo-Christians, which really shouldn't be shocking when they make up such a small percentage of the population.
To me that's where it comes from. Religion just isn't something that comes up in French society for the most part, but because there's really no way for a Muslim who's ethnically from somewhere outside of France to completely blend in and keep his religion and ethnicity from being noticed. I'm an atheist libertarian from another continent who isn't fluent in French and nobody gives me any trouble or scrutiny because I'm white and ethnically French. I don't think it's that French people are intolerant of Islam itself, but they're intolerant of public religious displays, and it's basically impossible for a Muslim in a predominantly white/Catholic country to keep himself from implicitly showing he's of a different faith.
It actually reminds me a little bit of the gay marriage stuff where straight dudes get upset because gay people are "shoving it down our throats" (giggity) when really they're just doing the same stuff that straight couples do all the time in public or on TV. same thing here where people get angry that Muslims make a big deal out of their religion when really they're just doing more or less the same stuff as any Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish Frenchman would, but instead of it being a Judeo-Christian ambiguity, they're clearly Muslims and even if they dress and speak the same way, there's an ethnicity element to Islam that means it's hard to avoid subconsciously seeing them as "the other" or thinking about their religion.
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Not sure what's more bizarre, declaring a fatwa on selfies because the women who take them are "shameless and unpure", or a Sharia loving, Muslim cleric with more than 1 million twitter followers.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...against-female-selfies-twitter-users-defiant/
Miss Indonesia
remains defiant:
With any luck she'll get to keep that pretty head of hers.
I wonder how many people will "unfriend" the cleric in protest
http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...against-female-selfies-twitter-users-defiant/
Miss Indonesia
remains defiant:
With any luck she'll get to keep that pretty head of hers.
I wonder how many people will "unfriend" the cleric in protest
Scaff
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Quite a nice article (in the form of a Q&A) that explains the rise of Saudi, how it 'gave birth' to fundamental Islam and the internal and external conflict that has resulted from it.
http://www.vox.com/2015/1/26/7877619/saudi-arabia-questions
http://www.vox.com/2015/1/26/7877619/saudi-arabia-questions
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Dotini
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A fascinating article on the practice of Djinn worship by Indian Muslims at the Kotla ruins.
http://abhisheksaha.com/2015/01/28/...-14th-century-delhi-fort-djinns-grant-wishes/
http://abhisheksaha.com/2015/01/28/...-14th-century-delhi-fort-djinns-grant-wishes/
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It's not just extremists. I think that there are certain cultural differences that many Australians find incompatible.
The Cronulla riots are a good example. From what I understand the genesis was men of Middle Eastern descent abusing women in a sexual manner. Aussies can be an oxymoronic bunch - much like a bogan with a smart phone, we sometimes pair the neanderthal with the progressive, in regards to thought processes. I think that the fact that fair and equal treatment of women in Australia is a non-negotiable was completely lost amid the ill-conceived but initially well-intentioned response in Cronulla is a shame.
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And they tend to be very serious about it. I mean, I knew a Muslim chick that was extremely chill about anything else related to her religion (...especially any tenent about alcoholic beverages and chastity
) but praying facing towards Makkah and fasting during the Ramadan were two things she absolutely respected with the utmost devotion. She even carried a compass around, FFS. As I understand it has to do with the dynamics of sin in Islamic theology and culture - Islam is not dissimilar from Protestantism in that it believes in justification by faith alone. And praying while bowing towards Makkah is a sign of faith.
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I guess Allah turns a blind eye to all the sex and booze, but damn you to hell if you face the wrong way while prayingAnd they tend to be very serious about it. I mean, I knew a Muslim chick that was extremely chill about anything else related to her religion (...especially any tenent about alcoholic beverages and chastity
As I understand it has to do with the dynamics of sin in Islamic theology and culture - Islam is not dissimilar from Protestantism in that it believes in justification by faith alone. And praying while bowing towards Makkah is a sign of faith.
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http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/africa/tunisia-parliament-evacuated/index.html
Early, but Tunisian officials are reporting 8 dead at the Bardo Museum at the hands of "Islamists". Hostages were taken, now released, two attackers dead, 3 on the loose.
Early, but Tunisian officials are reporting 8 dead at the Bardo Museum at the hands of "Islamists". Hostages were taken, now released, two attackers dead, 3 on the loose.
