Islam - What's your view on it?

  • Thread starter SalmanBH
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FrzGT
On the other news, critisize Saudi Government there and face in jail.

Thats not in Islam, isnt it? Their politics has nothing to do with Islam.
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In more other news, criticise the Chinese or North Korean governments there and face jail for it.

Pretty sure that's not in Islam.
 
prisonermonkeys
In more other news, criticise the Chinese or North Korean governments there and face jail for it.

Pretty sure that's not in Islam.
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And I dont care what goes on in muslim countries, most western folks dont care.....but dont bring it to my country! Anyways, just like I wouldnt go to Iran or Saudi Arabia and complain about laws then get arrested, I sure as heck if I were Muslim in a muslim place come to another country and complain cough cough.

In other news, in Germany some arabic speaking teenagers tried to stone some trans gendered people to death citing their peaceful religion as a standard, arrested though before finishing the deed. They seemed confused as to why they were arrested, strange laws in this new land!!
 
From my experience it's the culture not the religion that is the issue, if you go to any of these ''Muslim'' countries it feels like your going back in time, and the age old saying you are who you associate with very much applies, but when they come to a Western Country you would be amazed at how much different the 2nd generation will end up, I have grown up around plenty of 2nd generations in this scenario and they pretty much all adapt to who they associate to who are very much different to what they would if in the old country.

It's the same thing with other regions who are not Muslim or from a ''Muslim'' country.

That is culture.
 
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novcze
but let's not forget that religion is part of the culture ... especially when we talk about "hardcore" islamic countries.
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Religion is part of many cultures it basically comes down to how the higher powers shove it down the people's throats and or how they portray said religion in a way they feel best.
 
novcze
but let's not forget that religion is part of the culture ... especially when we talk about "hardcore" islamic countries.
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Although, as @mustafur says, it's not the be-all-and-end-all of the legal system. Look at the differences between the many moderate Muslim countries and their extreme counterparts. You could rightly say that Islam is part of their culture but you'd find a gulf between what is considered acceptable both in law in in day-to-day society.
 
Johnnypenso
"Everyone who has a different opinion than my correct opinion I'm going to label a bigot", amiright?

The mantra of a leftist.
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Tell me, does it make you feel clever when you try to throw somebody's words back in their face instead of contributing something meaningful to a discussion? I'm sure that warm, fuzzy feeling of self-satisfaction that you're feeling right now has left you blind to the irony of the way you just demonstrated how narrow-minded the political right can be. It's disappointing, because you're usually smarter than this. Of all the right-wing forum members, you're one of the few that was actually able to articulate your arguments without frothing at the mouth, but I guess my opinion of you just changed. Not that you would care, because hey, I'm from the political left.
 
prisonermonkeys
Tell me, does it make you feel clever when you try to throw somebody's words back in their face instead of contributing something meaningful to a discussion? I'm sure that warm, fuzzy feeling of self-satisfaction that you're feeling right now has left you blind to the irony of the way you just demonstrated how narrow-minded the political right can be. It's disappointing, because you're usually smarter than this. Of all the right-wing forum members, you're one of the few that was actually able to articulate your arguments without frothing at the mouth, but I guess my opinion of you just changed. Not that you would care, because hey, I'm from the political left.
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Because this was the sole definition of that?
prisonermonkeys
"If you don't love it, leave it", am I right?

The mantra of the bigot.
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To make this comment & then throw out a fake post acting high & mighty, condemning someone because they mocked your worthwhile contribution.

Keeping with the thread, the topic of prayer in the workplace may arise again.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hundred...d-after-dispute-over-prayers/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17

FORT MORGAN, Colo. --Nearly 200 Muslim workers have been fired from a Cargill meatpacking plant in Colorado, for walking out after a dispute over prayer breaks.

Praying five times a day is a must for many Muslims.

But Tony Aden says missing even one of those prayers over a break time dispute caused him and many others to walk away from their jobs.

"It don't matter if I don't have a job, my religion is more important," Aden told CBS News.

Cargill spokesperson Michael Martin says prayer is allowed. But he says a misunderstanding of company policy came on December 18th, when 11 workers asked for a break to pray at the same time.

"Coming from that specific work area would have disrupted the workflow so the supervisor told the employees that they could go pray, but they would have to go in smaller numbers than 11," Martin told CBS News. "It would have to be three at a time."

The following Monday, nearly 200 employees from the Muslim community didn't show up to work for three consecutive days. The company fired them all.

"There are times when accommodation is not possible," Martin said. "But in an overwhelming majority of instances, we do everything we can to ensure sure that we do accommodate employees."

Jaylani Hussein represents 150 workers who are now without a job.

"Now we are getting supervisors who are telling our clients to go home if they wanted to pray," Hussein said. "If they are denied their basic rights to practice their faith reasonably at their employment, they seem to be losing one of the basic fundamental rights."

Cargill is now hiring to fill the shoes of those who walked out.

Areas have been set up at Cargill since 2009 to accommodate anyone who requested time to pray.

The Council on American Islamic Relations is currently working reach an agreement with Cargill so that those fired workers can return.
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They weren't denied their basic rights. They just can't all go at once. That's a common place among any workplace. It disrupts productivity.

They weren't fired for their prayers. They were fired because they didn't show up for 3 days. That's pretty standard for any work place in the US.
 
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McLaren
To make this comment & then throw out a fake post acting high & mighty, condemning someone because they mocked your worthwhile contribution.
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Looks like I am going to have to explain the obvious again:

"If you don't love it, leave it" implies that a migrant has a choice when in reality they don't. It's a demand for them to immediately, absolutely and unquestionably accept the country as being perfect without any opportunity for actually considering it or affecting any kind of change if they accept it. It's essentially forced assimilation under the pretence of offering a choice.

Down here, the slogan was most recently associated with a photo of a man barbecuing a pig at a "halal-free barbecue" intended intended to celebrate the ten-year anniversary of the Cronulla race riots (where two groups of thugs decided to beat each other up for being different). He has also been photographed at the Bendigo mosque protests, a right-wing movement opposed to the establishment of a mosque in Bendigo. So what's to "love" about this? Apparently, he is free to take a dump on another culture for the sake of pissing them off and call it freedom of expression and himself a hero for defending national values, but as soon as another culture attempts to establish itself alongside the existing one, it gets shot down. And apparently migrants are supposed to "love" this - if they complain, they're accused of being subversive and regarded with suspicion. It's a double standard.
 
prisonermonkeys
Tell me, does it make you feel clever when you try to throw somebody's words back in their face instead of contributing something meaningful to a discussion? I'm sure that warm, fuzzy feeling of self-satisfaction that you're feeling right now has left you blind to the irony of the way you just demonstrated how narrow-minded the political right can be. It's disappointing, because you're usually smarter than this. Of all the right-wing forum members, you're one of the few that was actually able to articulate your arguments without frothing at the mouth, but I guess my opinion of you just changed. Not that you would care, because hey, I'm from the political left.
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It makes me feel as clever as it makes you feel to throw your slandering and disparaging labels on people who don't agree with you. Inferring that somehow my comments, which are entirely my own, somehow disparages the "narrow minded" political right, kind of makes my point for me. If making a few facetious or obviously satirical posts ruins my reputation, I'll just have to live with that.
 
Johnnypenso
If making a few facetious or obviously satirical posts ruins my reputation, I'll just have to live with it.
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It's easy to call your posts facetious or satirical after the fact. The problem is that in order to be successful in satire, you need to understand your audience just as much as your subject. And to complicate matters, you're in a format where you don't have the full range of devices to communicate the intention of your words.
 
prisonermonkeys
It's easy to call your posts facetious or satirical after the fact. The problem is that in order to be successful in satire, you need to understand your audience just as much as your subject. And to complicate matters, you're in a format where you don't have the full range of devices to communicate the intention of your words.
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My post is a near exact parody of yours, I even used quotation marks and italics....:odd::odd:
 
prisonermonkeys
It's easy to call your posts facetious or satirical after the fact. The problem is that in order to be successful in satire, you need to understand your audience just as much as your subject. And to complicate matters, you're in a format where you don't have the full range of devices to communicate the intention of your words.
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prisonermonkeys
You think that counts as the full range of techniques needed to execute parody?
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You need to take a good hard look at yourself. Posts like this are what make you such an unlikeable person in these parts of the forum. Is it chilly up there in your tower?

Grow up and climb down from your tower, or just go away.
 
I'm sorry, but when someone claims to have been acting facetiously or to have been satirical in their posts based on a handful of emoticons and the occasional bit of markup, do you know what it looks like? That person trying to explain away an unpopular position. Watch any of the great satirists out there; there is so much more to their craft than their word choice. There is nuance, subtelty and control over language because satire is overt comedy. The audience is aware of the purpose of the presentation, even if the subject is not. And that's before you even take into consideration the fact that it is dealing with a topical and sensitive issue. That's why its success hinges on the knowledge of subhect and the auidence, none of which is present in any of @Johnnypenso's posts. He is not Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert. So at best, he's a poor comedian; at worst, he's trying to get out from under a position that has not been received well.

My position and my opinions might not be popular in this subforum, but I don't expect them to be. After all, as several forum members have pointed out, these threads have brought out the worst in some posters, given their apparent willingness to quash the identity and the rights of millions of people for the sake of their own "safety". They seem intent on proving that the faith of millions of people is the source of all evil in the world; me, I am just trying to demonstrate that a handful of people are reacting to their own prejudices.

So, how's my tower? It's actually pretty comfortable up here with all the decent people in the world.
 
prisonermonkeys
I'm sorry, but when someone claims to have been acting facetiously or to have been satirical in their posts based on a handful of emoticons and the occasional bit of markup, do you know what it looks like
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I'm not claiming to be anything, my post is an obvious parody. Other than you and a couple of others that I'm sure will agree with you no matter what, I'm guessing just about everyone else can see that my post is facetious and satirical. Had it been separated from your post and had I not quoted you in my response, I could see where you'd be right. The way I laid it out and included your quote, I can't see how anyone could miss it. You might not like it, it might not be very funny, it might even be completely wrong and offbase, but the intent was still the same.

That person trying to explain away an unpopular position.
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I would have thought that it was pretty obvious, given my posting history, that I'm not really looking to win any popularity contests:lol:. Are you sure you're talking about me there?:odd:

Watch any of the great satirists out there; there is so much more to their craft than their word choice. There is nuance, subtelty and control over language because satire is overt comedy. The audience is aware of the purpose of the presentation, even if the subject is not. And that's before you even take into consideration the fact that it is dealing with a topical and sensitive issue. That's why its success hinges on the knowledge of subhect and the auidence, none of which is present in any of @Johnnypenso's posts. He is not Jon Stewart or Steven Colbert. So at best, he's a poor comedian; at worst, he's trying to get out from under a position that has not been received well.
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I was a class clown in high school but I do admit I've lost my edge:(. And Steven Colbert isn't funny anway:yuck:

My position and my opinions might not be popular in this subforum, but I don't expect them to be. After all, as several forum members have pointed out, these threads have brought out the worst in some posters, given their apparent willingness to quash the identity and the rights of millions of people for the sake of their own "safety". They seem intent on proving that the faith of millions of people is the source of all evil in the world; me, I am just trying to demonstrate that a handful of people are reacting to their own prejudices.
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A handful of people are reacting to their own prejudices? Kind of ironic that I was trying to do the same thing with the post that has sparked this little debate.

So, how's my tower? It's actually pretty comfortable up here with all the decent people in the world.
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Very insightful.
 
Johnnypenso
I'm not claiming to be anything, my post is an obvious parody.
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I beg to differ. One, if it was as obvious as you claim it to be, everyone would have picked up on it and we'd all be applauding you for how clever and nuanced your parody was; and two, five minutes ago you were calling it satire. Satire and parody are two different things. Parody is gross exaggeration intended to marginalise or trivialise the subject. Satire, on the other hand ises exaggeration to play the subject against the audience. Parody is a form of satire, but satire is not always parody.

Johnnypenso
Very insightful.
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I'd rather believe in the inherent goodness in people and suffer the disappointment when proven wrong than assume the worst in everyone and bask in the satisfaction of being proven right. Half the responses to the assaults in Cologne amounted to "I told you so", which amounts to being a something that the swear filter will block. So you'll excuse me if I don't submerge myself in cynicism, call it a virtue and expect everyone to thank me for it. Because if we all gave into that cynicism, the world would be a pretty miserable place to live.
 
@McLaren Agreed. As much as i promoting tolerance rehardless of religions and ethnics, they too have to obey the rules like all people who inhabited that country.

I remember the industry protest on USA (cant remember what exactly). Employees halt the work and demanding rights. Up until the President Bush gave them notice but they refused. They all got fired soon after.

Its not the matter on their rights. Its just the matter of regulations. Try not just see the headline and see whats inside the content, really. Its just like that "Tajikstan deports tourist for disrespecting local cuisine" headline, only to see whats inside and turns out hes just run out his Visa.
 
prisonermonkeys
I beg to differ. One, if it was as obvious as you claim it to be, everyone would have picked up on it and we'd all be applauding you for how clever and nuanced your parody was; and two, five minutes ago you were calling it satire. Satire and parody are two different things. Parody is gross exaggeration intended to marginalise or trivialise the subject. Satire, on the other hand ises exaggeration to play the subject against the audience. Parody is a form of satire, but satire is not always parody.
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Looks like 6 people liked my post, the most of any post on this page. Do you want someone to write an GTP News article on it to give it more credibility?

I'd rather believe in the inherent goodness in people and suffer the disappointment when proven wrong than assume the worst in everyone and bask in the satisfaction of being proven right. Half the responses to the assaults in Cologne amounted to "I told you so", which amounts to being a something that the swear filter will block. So you'll excuse me if I don't submerge myself in cynicism, call it a virtue and expect everyone to thank me for it. Because if we all gave into that cynicism, the world would be a pretty miserable place to live.
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Glass half full/half empty etc. People do the "I told you so" routine when their concerns are dismissed and they are told to shut up, they are wrong, and to stop being worried about things they are legitimately worried about. People don't like to constantly be told that others know better and that because they have different opinions they must necessarily be racists or bigots or homophobes or xenophobes etc. When one dismisses and belittles and marginalizes the opinions of segments of the population this is the kind of backlash that you get. When one sets themselves up in an ivory tower with all the "decent people" one must be prepared for the minions and peasants and common folk hammering away at the base of that tower with their sledgehammers and crude stone and steel tools. If the decent people are in the tower, that means the rest of us outside the tower are indecent by definition. How else do you expect indecent people to react?
 
Johnnypenso
Looks like 6 people liked my post, the most of any post on this page. Do you want someone to write an GTP News article on it to give it more credibility?

Glass half full/half empty etc. People do the "I told you so" routine when their concerns are dismissed and they are told to shut up, they are wrong, and to stop being worried about things they are legitimately worried about. People don't like to constantly be told that others know better and that because they have different opinions they must necessarily be racists or bigots or homophobes or xenophobes etc. When one dismisses and belittles and marginalizes the opinions of segments of the population this is the kind of backlash that you get. When one sets themselves up in an ivory tower with all the "decent people" one must be prepared for the minions and peasants and common folk hammering away at the base of that tower with their sledgehammers and crude stone and steel tools. If the decent people are in the tower, that means the rest of us outside the tower are indecent by definition. How else do you expect indecent people to react?
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Indecently lol.
 
prisonermonkeys
A like is not recognition of your "satire". Especially considering that some of them are well-kmown for their anti-Islamic views.
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It's the best version of "applauding" that GT has, and as I recall, one of the intended attributes of the like system is to stop the flurry of meaningless 👍👍 and "dittos" that cluttered up threads before it was introduced. I didn't realize that likes only counted as good when they came from certain people. Is there a list somewhere of these good people or are they all up in the tower with you?
 
Is there any reason why most of the Islamic / Arabic countries in the Middle East have the exact same color flag.
Syria, Iraq, Jordon, Palestine, Kuwait, Sudan, Libya, UAE, Afghanistan? Some of them very similar, like Jordan / Palestine or Syria / Iraq.

Were they all part of the same empire in the past?
 
prisonermonkeys
Nope. Wikipedia is for knowledgeable GTP members to use as the source of their power, but you just had to give away state secrets, didn't you?
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What? @DCP just asking about the flag. He provides an answer. Nice and simple. Just some guy looking for knowledge.

Also im very sure Wiki cant provide state secrets since they have a policy from start. You probably confuse Wikipedia to Wikileaks.
 

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