Israel - Palestine discussion thread
- Thread starter Beeblebrox237
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- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
And in real life news.
An Israeli village on the Golan heights came under attack from inside Syria, and as retaliation Israel bombarded Syria, reports from Syria claim 5 civilians killed and one soldier, Israeli news claims 4 Palestinian militants killed.
An Israeli village on the Golan heights came under attack from inside Syria, and as retaliation Israel bombarded Syria, reports from Syria claim 5 civilians killed and one soldier, Israeli news claims 4 Palestinian militants killed.
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- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
So it's a crap analogy then.
You say that the fight is between two sides to see whose god is right, but you say it's neither, so your own analogy of a tennis match and statement it that must have one winner - in response to the question "And if both sides lose?" - is daft as you already think that both sides have lost.
- 4,735
- Kansas City, MO
- FlyingAGasoline
The winner was already triumphant 2000 years ago at the Cross.
His basically taken 2 days to give fans a chance to celebrate with Him, in a few seconds time.
It just seems a little longer for the fans....
Aren't all 5 billion un-believers going to be cast into the lake of fire (including all of the 13.5 million Jews, half of those Israeli) if your book is to be believed?
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
No, they will be judged for their sins, and be condemned / punished for their wicked works.
Also, we don't really know who is repenting and who is not, so it's not a good way to assume people will be cast in the lake of fire.
Jews are not favored as far as sinning is concerned.
Also, we don't really know who is repenting and who is not, so it's not a good way to assume people will be cast in the lake of fire.
Jews are not favored as far as sinning is concerned.
- 4,735
- Kansas City, MO
- FlyingAGasoline
An Excuse!?
Why Israel and not Uganda? ZIONISM! It's about land. (and self-determination.....through land-based sovereignty) Not about invisible omnipotent beings, but about land. Three groups or more are all claiming the same pile of dirt as holy ground. The land is the farthest thing from an excuse - it's the reason. 
How does that figure? You say that the winner of the "whose invisible man" contest was the Christian God. If Christianity is right, and if I understand my former religion, non-christians are damned wholesale. So, some arithmetic, assuming Jesus brings the pork chops this afternoon.Population of Earth: 7.3 billion.
minus
Christian population: 2.2 billion.
5.1 billion left behind/cast into fire/damned plus whomever out of that 2.2 billion are "unrepentant sinners". If your invisible man won, then everybody who does not accept Jesus is damned. Which would mean that the Israelis, most of whom do not believe in the god who divided itself and spored, are damned. 8 of ten, at least. 9/10 for the Palestinians. If God's going to damn them all, why bother?
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
Well, we don't know the future, so we don't know who's hearts will change with the Rapture takes place.
We don't know which stubborn arrogant people will open their hearts and start seeing the signs they once heard of, but willfully ignored them. We don't even know what's in the hearts of those 7 billion people to say they are damned.
There is plenty of vacant land in this world, so why fight for a baron desert? Just take a flight from Johannesburg South Africa to Capetown South Africa and you will be astonished at how much vacant land there is, and the flight is only 2 hours.
We don't know which stubborn arrogant people will open their hearts and start seeing the signs they once heard of, but willfully ignored them. We don't even know what's in the hearts of those 7 billion people to say they are damned.
There is plenty of vacant land in this world, so why fight for a baron desert? Just take a flight from Johannesburg South Africa to Capetown South Africa and you will be astonished at how much vacant land there is, and the flight is only 2 hours.
- 4,735
- Kansas City, MO
- FlyingAGasoline
Yet you talk of "the signs they once heard of". A land flowing with milk and honey? A land promised to you, my people? There are a few geographical terms for it. Not Uganda, not South Africa, not New Jersey, not California. Canaan, Israel, Palestine.. Yeah, that's the place. The one mentioned numerous times in these signs you say people once heard of. I guess the signs people once heard of about "the promised land" must not matter at all. Which would be strange, because if it [The promised land - a promise God made] doesn't matter, then the good book you mention has parts that can be declared by our small human minds to not matter at all. If God's promises don't matter, that means that the good book is fallible and man-made, and further undercuts any point you can make on this subject.
"Let them fight it out" you say. Let the Qassams, Grads, Laser guided bombs, and mortars fly? Let children on both sides continue to be maimed? How callous. Why fight? I will put the ethos very simply.
Everything that could be taken from my people has been taken at several points in time. Only through sovereign land shall the Jewish question have an acceptable answer. How are we rendered worthy and acceptable to society? We make our own. We made a few bad moves. The consequences are ours. We fight because we must survive the antipathy of millions who still call for our annihilation and the apathy of millions of others such as yourself.
- 4,735
- Kansas City, MO
- FlyingAGasoline
Part 1 - Take a closer look at your religious text of choice, which I will assume is the Christian Bible. Look at the promises God is making in the first half. They concern a piece of real estate west of the River Jordan.
Part 2 - And now you are arguing that Israel wins because the Jews might have been there first? I thought you didn't care about that barren piece of desert. Abraham counts as the first Muslim as well, FYI.
Head in the sand, anyone?
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
Yep, it's always been their land. Besides, if Israel is destroyed, then there is no hope for the world, because then Jesus Christ won't have a Jerusalem to return to, according to scripture.
You see, the enemy knows that he must destroy Gods people to destroy Gods plan.
The problem for the enemy is, God never loses.
Abraham was never a muslim FYI. A self claimed prophet who appears 600 years after Christ, telling people that his god made mistakes in the torah and the Gospel, but then revealed the quran as the final true word, is not the person I will trust, no offense.
Isnt it all (the modern ones) started because the UK troops send all Jewish there? And when i said Jewish, its European Jewish, not an homeland Jewish (Well the majority anyway)
I mean, Israel currently begs to join EU instead of keeping it together on middle east.
I mean, Israel currently begs to join EU instead of keeping it together on middle east.
- 20,820
- NJ/USA
- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
No.
In essence the whole of the current conflict can be traced back to the UK enlisting the help of the disparate Arab kingdoms (with no claims on the land) by the assent of the Sharif of Mecca to drive out the Ottoman Turks from the region during World War 1 as part of an assault on the Ottoman Empire - which was allied with Germany. The UK promised Arab independence in the region for their assistance, but instead drew up divisional plans with France and Russia - the 'Triple Entente' - to keep the land for themselves after defeating the Turks in the Sykes-Picot agreement.
The UK was committed to the cause of Zionism - effectively as the UK believed that an alliance with the Jewish was essential to victory in WW1 - and the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the region, alongside existing non-Jewish populations as per the Balfour Declaration, but when the Russian revolution happened and the UK and France decided to cut Russia out of the Triple Entente, the Russians exposed the Sykes-Picot agreement.
Unsurprisingly, the Arabs were a bit annoyed by this and the Jews were a little miffed too. Nonetheless, European Jews were shipped over to the British Mandate of Palestine (as it then was) and attempts were made to make Arab nations in Syria - which France didn't like too much and promptly quashed militarily. This put armed Arab paramilitaries in close quarters with Jewish settlers - who were already quarrelling with native Arabs - which lead to border skirmishes, sectarianism (sort of) and riots. They lead to deaths and thereafter it's just an eye for an eye.
The UK withdrew from the Mandate after a couple of decades of what was effectively Jewish and Arabic terrorism against UK troops and personnel, whereupon Israel was declared as a state on the now vacant land and then immediately invaded on all corners by the nations surrounding it.
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
Here this might help you understand
As Mark Twain asked:
"Quote"
The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed; and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other people have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?”
"Unquote"
If only He believed what God said about the Jews, and His covenant with them, he would know the answer.
Bring it on Iran. Only ONE knows all things.
- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Any chance you can summarise that fourteen minute video, so people can decide whether it's worth wasting one 64th of their waking day on it or not?
A quote mark beginning and end is sufficient to establish that it's a quote. Or you can try quote tags: [QUOTE] at the start; [/QUOTE] at the end.
Seems like you're saying that Judaism - a different religion than yours and one that does not believe in Jesus as the son of God - is the right religion...
God says different things in the Talmud than he says in the Bible, so which version of what he says about the Jews is the version you should believe?
- 759
- South Africa
- GTAS_PEETHAM
It's worth the watch, yes. It's only 14 minutes.
The Talmud has scriptures taken out, because of the rejection of the suffering Messiah.
Everything still happens in Israel, and has nothing to do with Orthodox Jews.
Without an Israel, Jesus cannot return. You can see the enemy lining up another assault, of which I believe will be the final assault, because it is written, and it is happening in the natural. Check the video.
The Talmud has scriptures taken out, because of the rejection of the suffering Messiah.
Everything still happens in Israel, and has nothing to do with Orthodox Jews.
Without an Israel, Jesus cannot return. You can see the enemy lining up another assault, of which I believe will be the final assault, because it is written, and it is happening in the natural. Check the video.
- 86,735
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
That's not a summary.
I don't really care whether you think it's worth the watch, because our values may not intersect. I want to know why I should watch it, rather than assuming it's 14 minutes of cherry-picked scripture quoting and speculation.
And that's meaningless babble. That particular bit of land is only called Israel because David ben Gurion called it "Israel" in 1948 - and he only called it Israel because a similar region known as "the Kingdom of Israel" existed there a thousand years before the common era. The bit that you think Jesus was born in originally was called Judea.
The bit of land promised to the Jews in the Talmud as "Israel" seems to be a region of the Levant with no actually defined area. This is a little awkward as "Levant" ("where the sun rises") could mean anything clockwise around the east edge of the Mediterranean - or the Levantine as it was called - from Greece round to Egypt.
So Jesus wasn't born in Israel and there's no necessity for him to be reborn in Israel - and even if there was, there's no particular reason why it has to be the nation of Israel. It could be a kebab stand in Athens called Israel.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
