Israel - Palestine discussion thread

How truly "indestructible" can Judaism be, if it continues to be fused to a physical nation, whose borders can be - and have been - redrawn?
I'd say it's certainly not indestructible, it's a concept that can't be derived or discovered so if it isn't taught and is forgotten, it'll cease to exist. Fusing it with a physical nation could help to prevent that, but as you say, that relies on the integrity of lines in the sand. When you're drawing those lines around an area that a number of other religions may consider their Holy Land, it would seem to be extra perilous.
How truly "indestructible" can Judaism be, if it continues to be fused to a physical nation, whose borders can be - and have been - redrawn? I suppose what I desire is some sort of "Neo-Judaism" - something that doesn't involve praying in a dead dialect of a niche language, wearing a little knitted cap, or even using the iconic hexagram emblem
Sounds like you need to fundamentally consider why you identify as Jewish, what you put into it, versus what you get out of it. And, why those traditions are important to Jews?

I mean, really? We're supposedly "God's chosen people?" Chosen for what? Chosen to die by the millions during the holocaust? Chosen to consider a war-torn parcel of land the size of New Jersey our ostensible "home?" I think we Jews are better than that.
No people should die in the millions at the will of a deranged lunatic, Jewish or not. Ideally nobody's country would be a war torn rocket testing range. I think people are better than that irrespective of religious preference.
 
I just realized that it could be fun to organize a party with a selection of neighbors I had these last years in my building:
  • A Rabin and his family
  • An Iranian retired couple
  • A gay couple
  • An Ukrainian woman
  • An Armenian woman working for a Russian TV channel
  • A former Prime Minister
  • A far left conspiracist
  • A judge (could be handy)

There were , at least, 40.000 HAMAS activists. I really doubt that any country have enough spec ops to deal with them, 10 million Israel doesn't.
And that's even before considering tunnel network (up to 5 levels) advantage.
 
As an aside: I would not be surprised if China (with Russian encouragement) start pushing towards invading Taiwan in the coming months. With Europe and the US tied up in the twin conflicts of Ukraine and Israel, China might not have a better moment for some time to act. This might be verging on tin foil hattery, but I reckon Russia, China, Iran and North Korea - all of whom Russia has been in high level contact with recently - are coordinating a large-scale overthrow of the current global balance of power, such that the US and western forces will not be able to deal with all of these theatres of war opening simultaneously.
China invading Taiwan will totally collapse global supply chains and cause a devastating global recession. We can only hope that China knows how much it will be hurt by this too.
 
King of Jordan tells Olaf Scholz: We won’t take refugees from Gaza

The king of Jordan poured cold water on German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s hopes that neighboring Arab countries could take in Palestinian refugees who are fleeing the Gaza Strip ahead of an anticipated ground offensive by the Israeli army.


The rebuff by King Abdullah II was made Tuesday morning at a press conference with Scholz following a meeting in the chancellery in Berlin, which Scholz also used to issue a warning to Iran and to Hezbollah against intervening in the Israel-Hamas conflict.


“I think I can speak here on behalf of Jordan … but also our friends in Egypt: This is a red line … no refugees to Jordan and also no refugees to Egypt,” King Abdullah said at the press conference.


The remarks come just ahead of a trip by Scholz to Israel and Egypt, where the chancellor hopes to de-escalate tensions and improve the situation for Palestinians seeking to flee the conflict zone. A main hope for Scholz and other Western leaders is that Egypt could open its border with Gaza to allow in refugees.


However, the Jordanian king downplayed the likelihood of such an event: “This is a situation that has to be handled within Gaza and the West Bank. And you don’t have to do it on the shoulders of others.”


Following the violent attack by Hamas on Israel, during which it killed more than 1,300 people, Israel told civilians to evacuate the north of the Gaza Strip as it may launch a ground offensive in a bid to eradicate Hamas and free hostages.


Scholz is heading to Israel on Tuesday to express his solidarity with the country. The chancellor will continue to Egypt on Tuesday evening, and is scheduled to meet President Abdel Fattah Al-Sisi on Wednesday morning.


“It is imperative that the suffering civilian population, who are being used as human shields by Hamas, receives humanitarian aid,” Scholz said at the press conference, adding that “the Palestinians are not Hamas … the Palestinian population is also a victim of Hamas.”


Scholz also issued a warning that the war must not escalate further: “I again specifically warn Hezbollah and Iran not to intervene in the conflict.”



But Europe will probably be the naive weakling again and take them in, and a couple months later realise that Hamas all of the sudden has a lot more people scattered throughout Europe.
 
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I'm seeing tweets and stuff that Netenyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, said, standing next to the Chancellor of Germany, that Hamas are the new Nazis.

giphy.webp
 
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China invading Taiwan will totally collapse global supply chains and cause a devastating global recession. We can only hope that China knows how much it will be hurt by this too.
Maybe I'm just an optimist (and also relatively young), but I'd totally be down for a fire sale on stocks.
 
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Christ on a bike, people are not merely stupid but absolutely insane.
Consider for a moment that not everyone is terminally online as you nutjobs* are. I'm fairly online and I certainly knew of the terror attack on a concert in Israel but I didn't learn that the perpetrators paraglided in until this poor woman got harangued and accused of sympathizing with Hamas because she indicated she'd like to try the sport that many people enjoy, especially in the area where she lives. Apparently the singer--who performed in Tel Aviv despite calls ahead of the proposed concert to boycott it by the likes of Roger Waters and The Color Purple author Alice Walker--also mused about the activity in an interview in 2021.

*[Edit] "You" here refers to those outraged by the now-deleted post, not anyone posting in this thread.
 
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Christ on a bike, people are not merely stupid but absolutely insane.
Consider for a moment that not everyone is terminally online as you nutjobs* are. I'm fairly online and I certainly knew of the terror attack on a concert in Israel but I didn't learn that the perpetrators paraglided in until this poor woman got harangued and accused of sympathizing with Hamas because she indicated she'd like to try the sport that many people enjoy, especially in the area where she lives. Apparently the singer--who performed in Tel Aviv despite calls ahead of the proposed concert to boycott it by the likes of Roger Waters and The Color Purple author Alice Walker--also mused about the activity in an interview in 2021.

*[Edit] "You" here refers to those outraged by the now-deleted post, not anyone posting in this thread.
Accorindg to Guy Oseary (her manager), there was a specific word in her post that Jews find triggering. What is it? Paragliding? Eyes? Afraid? Here's the post and for the life of me, I can't see anything remotely triggering in it other than she used "u" instead of taking the extra milliseconds to write out "you", but I'll let that slide.

1697560505034.png


Also, Hamas was using paragliders? That's a Russian move right there.
 
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Accorindg to Guy Oseary (her manager), there was a specific word in her post that Jews find triggering. What is it? Paragliding? Eyes? Afraid? Here's the post and for the life of me, I can't see anything remotely triggering in it other than she used "u" instead of taking the extra milliseconds to write out "you", but I'll let that slide.

View attachment 1295990

Also, Hamas was using paragliders? That's a Russian move right there.
I suspect "paragliding" is the supposed triggering word. But Jesus that jacket is tacky. And per the HR article, "[some] users on Instagram also went so far as to suggest Keys was wearing green in sympathy for Hamas." Green is when Hamas. Insane.
 
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A hospital where thousands of Palestinians are sheltering has been hit by a missile and hundreds are reported to have been killed.

Al Jazeera has been very quick to report this as an Israeli attack, however it is not clear that it was an Israeli missile. The BBC are also reporting that Palestinian officials have claimed it was an Israeli attack, but stop short of labelling it as that.

If it were a deliberate attack, it would have to count as one of the most heinous war crimes in modern history. It would be astonishing, however, if Israel would do this on purpose just hours after President Biden set foot in Israel.
 
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I suspect "paragliding" is the supposed triggering word. But Jesus that jacket is tacky. And per the HR article, "[some] users on Instagram also went so far as to suggest Keys was wearing green in sympathy for Hamas." Green is when Hamas. Insane.
It is the triggering word.

There was a big hoo-haa at one of the protests in London because of it:


EDIT: I only knew about the use of paragliders because of that news story, so I really don't think Keyes is a closet Hamas sympathiser
 
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A hospital where thousands of Palestinians are sheltering has been hit by a missile and hundreds are reported to have been killed.

Al Jazeera has been very quick to report this as an Israeli attack, however it is not clear that it was an Israeli missile. The BBC are also reporting that Palestinian officials have claimed it was an Israeli attack, but stop short of labelling it as that.

If it were a deliberate attack, it would have to count as one of the most heinous war crimes in modern history. It would be astonishing, however, if Israel would do this on purpose just hours after President Biden set foot in Israel.
At least 500 dead.
 
EDIT: I only knew about the use of paragliders because of that news story, so I really don't think Keyes is a closet Hamas sympathiser
Others noticed it the first day:
1697575967490.png

(they backpedaled after that post)

A French anticolonial activist group also posted the following, also the day of the Hamas attack:
"May the Palestinian Resistance, which carries out its action with determination and confidence in heroic conditions, receive all of our militant fraternity in these terrible hours.
Palestine will win, and its Victory will be ours
"
With an ULM image:
1697575881680.png
 
Screenshot-20231017-135700-Samsung-Internet.jpg

Seems less than ideal.
Others noticed it the first day:
View attachment 1296039
(they backpedaled after that post)

A French anticolonial activist group also posted the following, also the day of the Hamas attack:
"May the Palestinian Resistance, which carries out its action with determination and confidence in heroic conditions, receive all of our militant fraternity in these terrible hours.
Palestine will win, and its Victory will be ours
"
With an ULM image:
View attachment 1296038
Ew.
 
500 is a lot of deads for a single rocket or even missile. Could it be a full stock of rocket exploding?

I don't think for a second that Israel did this intentionally. (unintentionally can also be a crime)
 
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A hospital where thousands of Palestinians are sheltering has been hit by a missile and hundreds are reported to have been killed.

Al Jazeera has been very quick to report this as an Israeli attack, however it is not clear that it was an Israeli missile. The BBC are also reporting that Palestinian officials have claimed it was an Israeli attack, but stop short of labelling it as that.

If it were a deliberate attack, it would have to count as one of the most heinous war crimes in modern history. It would be astonishing, however, if Israel would do this on purpose just hours after President Biden set foot in Israel.
I wonder how many failed launches there was during this war...


EDIT:
 
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image_2023-10-18_003054300.png


1697585486344.png


This guy is a well known Israeli journalist, Rather embarrassing for him. So stupid he thinks he even had a chance of getting away with this. With Community notes, Internet archiving and people screenshotting tweets surely they all know no one ever gets away with such things.

It still isn't 100% clear who is at fault. Some reports close to the Hospital said it sounded like an Israeli JDAM but then others say it definitely wasn't. Supporting the Israeli claims there is security camera footage from Israel that shows a large explosion during a volley of Islamic Jihad rockets. They claim that one of them misfired and detonated a stockpile of Munitions in the Hospital grounds.

Personally I would take both of these explanations with a grain of salt until more reliable sources report, The Israeli video is proved to be genuine or if some new information is released.
 
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I guess this is kind of perversely funny, but really it's pathetic.

When it's abundantly clear who did the bad:

ewarr1.jpg


When it's not so clear who did the bad (or you have an idea and you fear you'll be ostracized if you say it) but you're still compelled to condemn it:

ewarr2.jpg


"The blast is wrong." What?
 
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1697612465732.png

Photo: IDF-published diagram of a rocket launch that, according to the Israeli side, fell on Al-Ahly Hospital in Gaza.

The Islamic Jihad movement (recognized as terrorists and banned in the Russian Federation) denies Israeli accusations of shelling the hospital. “We assure that the accusations made by the enemy are false and unfounded,” the terrorist organization said in a statement;

Biden has ordered the collection of data to clarify the circumstances of the attack on a hospital in the Gaza Strip. The US President also intends “as a friend” to pose “a number of difficult questions” to Israel in connection with the conflict, Washington reported;

“The flames of US-Israeli bombs dropped on innocent Palestinians being treated for injuries in a Gaza hospital will soon consume the Zionists,” Iranian President Ibrahim Raisi said;

“There is no justification for attacking a hospital that is filled with medical personnel and civilians. All facts must be established and those responsible must be held accountable,” said the head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen;

The Russian Federation classifies the attack on the hospital as a war crime and an act of dehumanization, Zakharova said. She said Israel must provide satellite imagery to prove it was not involved in the strike;

NBC television, citing an anonymous source in Hamas, reported that the group is ready to release all hostages within an hour if Israel stops carrying out airstrikes on the Gaza Strip;

The Israeli army called on Gazans to evacuate to the al-Mawasi humanitarian area off the enclave's southern coast, where they would be "assisted as needed," the IDF said in a statement;

A million residents of the Gaza Strip have had to flee their homes, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said;

This week, the US Treasury plans to announce new sanctions against Hamas, Axios reports, citing sources in the White House.
 
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hundred of dead here?
Al Jazeera tone regarding this has totally changed overnight: they've gone from a "500 Kills in Israeli Strike" covering 1/4 of the screen, to a not even primary subject, with no mention to a casualty number.
 
And every single trustworthy news outlet is still reporting 500+ dead and a destroyed hospital, when all we see is a burned parking lot.

Edit

And they were all quick in blaming Israel of course. Because when Hamas reports something it must be true, and then this happens.

ajVjp20_460s.jpg
 
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Dunno how true this is, but anyway

I just cannot fathom how Israel would think a deliberate attack on a crowded hospital - even one being used to store ammo/weapons - would gain them anything at all. I can also see that Hamas or PIJ or any other terrorist organisation would benefit by staging an attack and blaming it on Israel, but I doubt even these sick ****s would blow up a hospital (or an ammo depot stationed within the bounds of hospital grounds) deliberately, but you never know.

If indeed this was a terrible accident, then both sides need to agree a ceasefire immediately - but of course that is very unlikely to happen.

The only thing that we can say right now with any certainty is that both sides are courting disaster. Alas, at least one of those sides seem quite happy with that.

-

Al Jazeera are still reporting this unequivocally as an Israeli air strike that has killed 500 people.

It's not clear that either of these major claims are correct.

-

Meanwhile, Joe Biden spoke in Israel today and referred to Palestinian terrorist groups as "the other team"...

Fail Oh No GIF by The Great British Bake Off
 
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The Russian Federation classifies the attack on the hospital as a war crime and an act of dehumanization, Zakharova said.
Drawing Motivation GIF


*I know this is just a quoted article, so I'm not saying you said that unit-one
 




Israel better get all those war crimes out of their system this time around, because I'm strongly questioning how much longer the "always support Israel unequivocally no matter what they happen to do or how increasingly little that support is reciprocated" foreign policy of the US is for this world.
 
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