Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[Scaff]

It is NOT one bloody side,

I've apportioned blame to both sides...

but you are continuously refusing to apportion the appropriate amount of blame to a religion that was dreamt up by a war-mongering, slave-owning nonce and the undeniable fact that humans are, and always will be tribal.

...and managed to do so without resorting to bigotry (you should really check how much of you rant applies to the Tora/OT as well).

How do you explain the fact of the record increases in antisemitic incidents following Oct 7 apart from:

There has been a persistent inability and unwillingness to distinguish between Jews and the actions of Israel.

Very simply, an increase in antisemitic (and Islamaphobic - you can add yourself to that one) incidents is a measurable fact, the claim that no one (and that is the clear inference of the article in its entirety) can differentiate between Jews and the Jewish state isn't a fact. Not only is it patent nonsense, it's highly insulting to the large number of Jews who do just that. It's also a core tenet of Hasbara.

Whats ironic, is you are claiming (inaccuratly) that people don't differentiate between Jews and the actions of Israel, yet are quite happy (and above are using it as a key point) to not differentiate between Islam and the actions of Hamas. It's stunning hypocrisy and you don't even realise it.

This is not whataboutism.

It is, and you have done zero to demonstrate otherwise, it's a distraction.

Why do you think Israel's crimes have been singled out, and why at this moment?

They haven't, don't start a question with a false premise.

They are perfectly aligned.

I countered your claim that it was the only thing that led to Hamas being in their strong position in Gaza. They are just another part of the axis of resistance (although not as obviously as the likes of Hezbollah.)

Someone needs to go and have a bit of a read, but don't take my word for in, take the word of one of the people who was tasked with doing it.

"“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,”

Who also reported back internally "Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists"

Yes, Hamas existed before Israel funded them, but they amounted to nothing, and Fatah was too dominant in Palestinian territories for the Israelis, without funding Hamas would never have grown to challenge and bear Fatah, and then link up with Islamists outside the country, turning on Israel as they did and then forcing Israel's hand and further strengthening Hamas's position and overseas backing.

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

But that is one cause - it's not the sole cause, and....again....it puts all the blame on "the Jews".

No, it puts the blame on the Israeli state and the IDF, no one here has 'put all the blame on the Jews', and you know that.

 

[Imari]

It is NOT one bloody side, but you are continuously refusing to apportion the appropriate amount of blame to a religion that was dreamt up by a war-mongering, slave-owning nonce and the undeniable fact that humans are, and always will be tribal.

You talking about Judaism or Islam? Not that it really matters, they're all in the same family of Abrahamic religions so any differences are mostly swings and roundabouts.

Given your anti-Islamic history though, I suspect I know which one you're talking about even if you aren't aware enough to know that you didn't give enough information to specify.

Why do you think Israel's crimes have been singled out, and why at this moment?

Why is Israel getting singled out as opposed to, say, China and the Uighurs?

Well, let's think about this for a second. Israel made sure that the attack by Hamas was shared widely. Fair enough, they were the victims and they have the right to show everyone the terrible thing that was done to them. Israel then continued by very publically prosecuting a war against not only Hamas, but the entirety of Gaza including the civilian population. The whole world is aware of the Israel/Palestine situation, but mostly ignores it unless something serious happens. The Israeli army invading and killing tens of thousands of civilians is something serious, and there's tons of footage and reporting happening on it.

Compare this to the Uighurs. What China is doing may well be worse, but they've gone to incredible lengths to ensure that reliable information is hard to come by. There's limited first hand video, and the reporting on it tends to be vague and poorly substantiated. There's clearly something going on, but it's really hard to tell exactly what, and they've slow rolled a lot of it over nearly a decade. That makes it far less impactful than a war that went from 0 to 100 in less than a month.

That's why. When a man beats his wife in the street, people step in. When a man beats his wife at home, maybe people hear some thumping and shouting but they probably don't intervene. They're not sure exactly what's going on, and they don't want to charge into someone else's house making accusations without solid proof and even then it's iffy.

Israel is proudly handing out proof of what they're doing. China is not. In the international court of public opinion, that makes a difference. Also the International Criminal Court, where presumably having objective evidence is looked upon favourably.

Why are Israel's crimes being singled out at this moment? Because now is when it's happening. Duh. Come on, bro. A 2 year old could have figured that one out.

Breaking it down further, we've imported the politics of the Middle East (among other tribal things) and don't have a clue on how to deal with it. See also the Montreal riots.

Because Canada never had riots before they "imported the politics of the Middle East", right?

Get off it. People protest, people riot, people have been doing that for literally millenia. That's nothing to do with the Middle East other than that happens to be one of the things that specific protest was about.

 

[Scaff]

Why is Israel getting singled out

What he also seems to be ignoring is that the ICC didn't just issue a warrant for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant , but also for Mohammed Deif.

Add in that one of key judges involved is Theodor Meron, a holocaust survivor that Netanyahu has basically accused of being antisemitic!

Theodor Meron - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GranTurNismo]

Former NY governor Andrew Cuomo- who has been hinting a return to politics, possibly a senate run- to join Benjamin Netanyahu's legal defense team, calls the ICC "anti-semitic":

Said to be mulling NYC mayor run, Andrew Cuomo joins 'dream team' to defend Netanyahu

Lawyer Alan Dershowitz convened the team to defend the prime minister of Israel as he faces international war crime charges over Israel's actions in Gaza.

gothamist.com

 

[UKMikey]

‘Tired of writing about dead kids’: why a US state department worker resigned over Israel-Gaza policy

Mike Casey, one of only two people explicitly focused on Gaza, left over inaction and doing ‘what the Israelis want’

www.theguardian.com