Jaguar Reveals Rebrand for its EV Future (😬)

[UKMikey]

Lotus are already deep into electrification of their current and future range. Don't forget, they engineered and made the original Tesla Roadster for Tesla. However the Eletre, their SUV, is 2600kgs, the upcoming saloon, the Emeya, a touch less at 2550kgs and their hypercar, the Evija, is 1900kgs - so hardly lightweights in the mould of the 750kg Elise.

"Complicate, then subtract lightness. Let's stick in a big heavy battery for power, then the car will be slower everywhere." -- Not Colin Chapman

 

[Nessy]

Lotus are already deep into electrification of their current and future range. Don't forget, they engineered and made the original Tesla Roadster for Tesla. However the Eletre, their SUV, is 2600kgs, the upcoming saloon, the Emeya, a touch less at 2550kgs and their hypercar, the Evija, is 1900kgs - so hardly lightweights in the mould of the 750kg Elise.

I do wonder whether we'll see a lot more interest in sportscar EV's, from traditional petrolheads, once the battery density technology improves. Caterham looks like they might be onto something with their 'Project V' car. I'm not sure of the actual weight but it's supposed to be fairly light for an EV, plus they're working with Yamaha for the electric powertrain.

 

[r_outsider]

I do wonder whether we'll see a lot more interest in sportscar EV's, from traditional petrolheads, once the battery density technology improves. Caterham looks like they might be onto something with their 'Project V' car. I'm not sure of the actual weight but it's supposed to be fairly light for an EV, plus they're working with Yamaha for the electric powertrain.

I see no reason we won't be eventually, after all there is a lot to like about electric power. Although we gearheads as a lot are a bit slow to adopt new technologies sometimes, instant torque could be very persuasive. I figure there's a hybrid formula out there that would work really well for us but that's a whole 'nuther conversation for another time.

 

[Roo]

I do wonder whether we'll see a lot more interest in sportscar EV's, from traditional petrolheads, once the battery density technology improves. Caterham looks like they might be onto something with their 'Project V' car. I'm not sure of the actual weight but it's supposed to be fairly light for an EV, plus they're working with Yamaha for the electric powertrain.

Basically 1200kg, although it achieves that by having Caterham practicality - so no frunk, 2+1 seating arrangement and so on. And it's a concept, of course, so likely to change for production.

Like you say, I'd be more interested in an EV if they weren't so big and didn't weigh so much... and if I could afford one... and I had anywhere even vaguely practical to charge it. But I've no inherent objection to electric as a motive power.

 

[TheCracker]

I do wonder whether we'll see a lot more interest in sportscar EV's, from traditional petrolheads, once the battery density technology improves. Caterham looks like they might be onto something with their 'Project V' car. I'm not sure of the actual weight but it's supposed to be fairly light for an EV, plus they're working with Yamaha for the electric powertrain.

The low centre of gravity that EV packaging allows certainly favours the sort of handling you’d want or expect from a sports car, but with most EVs that packaging usually means the driver and passengers sit on top of the batteries, so your driving position isn’t optimal for a sports car and it’s styling would probably suffer too. I guess, especially with less need for overall range, you could package the batteries more creatively - up front or directly behind the driver where an engine would usually go, but that may compromise the benefits of EV CoG.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Which part of it is woke? Genuinely curious.

How dare they have so many different skin colours in an ad for a car brand that sells cars all over the world?!

That's like... DEI or something. shudders

 

[ScottPuss20]

How dare they have so many different skin colours in an ad for a car brand that sells cars all over the world?!

That's like... DEI or something. shudders

It's woke because it suggests that gender doesn't exist and we must all be transvestites or something like that. It promotes the wrong kind of "group think" where non-descript terms are used to describe individuals. The people that are showcased don't really exist in the real world and completely misrepresent the reality, which consists of more moderate people who don't want to focus on social issues that are mostly constructs of those who live in fairy land.

 

[Nielsen]

I posted the video, the press release (with images), and an opinion that "Copy Nothing" was a bit optimistic as the new logo font/wordmark copied the Marvel's Hawkeye one.

You did but it’s not even close to being the major concern in all of this. 😬

Nothing about "woke" or "politically correct", or EVs, so I'm not sure what I "should already know" about these things on the basis of that post.

You should already know the controversies surrounding this story. It’s all over the internet.

It's only really the one question, and you've not really come close to hitting an answer.

No, you’re in the ballpark of having asked 20 not so identical questions. It would be a lot easier if you posted the answer you’re looking for. But it would likely make no difference, because I’ve already given you the answer you need to hear. Multiple times.

Also, you’ve deducted things from my answers that I didn’t even say nor imply because you either misunderstood my points, or chose to do so for the sake of pestering the discussion.

 

[Famine]

You should already know the controversies surrounding this story.

I do. I didn't reference a single one of them in my article post, so I don't what I "should already know" having posted it.

No, you’re in the ballpark of having asked 20 not so identical questions. It would be a lot easier if you posted the answer you’re looking for. But it would likely make no difference, because I’ve already given you the answer you need to hear. Multiple times.

Also, you’ve deducted things from my answers that I didn’t even say nor imply because you either misunderstood my points, or chose to do so for the sake of pestering the discussion.

The question was "What is "wokeness", what are the ideals behind it, and how are they being challenged?".

You defined "wokeness" by using the word "woke", which is self-referential. When asked to define "woke" you said "political correctness", which either means "woke" is just another word for "political correctness" (which is stupid) or your definition is not accurate. When asked to define "political correctness" you said it was "a set of ideals pertaining to doing “the right thing”, but the right thing is influenced by a consensus". When I pointed out that this applies to an individual like the onr you brought up - Donald Trump (what better consensus is there than a plurality of nine-figures of American voters?) - you noped out. Apparently not permanently.

Thus far you provided no definition, no ideals behind it, and of the challenges you posted you stated one had nothing to do with woke...

The question remains what is "wokeness"? Again, I'm vaguely aware of its AAVE, segregation era roots to mean "aware of social injustice", but I'm sure you don't mean that as I don't know how it would play into this scenario or what is challenging it.

It's woke because it suggests that gender doesn't exist and we must all be transvestites or something like that. It promotes the wrong kind of "group think" where non-descript terms are used to describe individuals.

Here, one ideal ascribed to "woke" is that gender doesn't exist and everyone must be transvestites. Which is weird, but at least an attempt at a definition - even if I'm not sure why this has been posted at the jaGUar ad where neither gender nor transvestitism is mentioned.

It also leads to the question: does gender "exist"? Sex definitely does, but "gender" is, as far as I'm aware, merely a social construct.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I do. I didn't reference a single one of them in my article post, so I don't what I "should already know" having posted it.

The question was "What is "wokeness", what are the ideals behind it, and how are they being challenged?".

You defined "wokeness" by using the word "woke", which is self-referential. When asked to define "woke" you said "political correctness", which either means "woke" is just another word for "political correctness" (which is stupid) or your definition is not accurate. When asked to define "political correctness" you said it was "a set of ideals pertaining to doing “the right thing”, but the right thing is influenced by a consensus". When I pointed out that this applies to an individual like the onr you brought up - Donald Trump (what better consensus is there than a plurality of nine-figures of American voters?) - you noped out. Apparently not permanently.

Thus far you provided no definition, no ideals behind it, and of the challenges you posted you stated one had nothing to do with woke...

The question remains what is "wokeness"? Again, I'm vaguely aware of its AAVE, segregation era roots to mean "aware of social injustice", but I'm sure you don't mean that as I don't know how it would play into this scenario or what is challenging it.

Here, one ideal ascribed to "woke" is that gender doesn't exist and everyone must be transvestites. Which is weird, but at least an attempt at a definition - even if I'm not sure why this has been posted at the jaGUar ad where neither gender nor transvestitism is mentioned.

It also leads to the question: does gender "exist"? Sex definitely does, but "gender" is, as far as I'm aware, merely a social construct.

Yes, gender is a social construct but it's such an integral part of our world. You can call it oppression if you like but if you tear down this social construct, people's physical and mental well being are at great risk. You can't have biological men in female prisons and you can't have non-gendered toilets because all it will do is increase cases of sexual assault. It's a dangerous ideology.

 

[UKMikey]

They have lockable cubicles dude.

 

[Famine]

Yes, gender is a social construct but it's such an integral part of our world. You can call it oppression if you like but if you tear down this social construct, people's physical and mental well being are at great risk. You can't have biological men in female prisons and you can't have non-gendered toilets because all it will do is increase cases of sexual assault. It's a dangerous ideology.

All that from a Jaguar rebranding promo which looked like a boring early-90s EuroTrash episode and some derivative fonts.

Amazing.

 

[ScottPuss20]

All that from a Jaguar rebranding promo which looked like a boring early-90s EuroTrash episode and some derivative fonts.

Amazing.

Yep! That's right!

 

[MisterWaffles]

It's woke because it suggests that gender doesn't exist and we must all be transvestites or something like that. It promotes the wrong kind of "group think" where non-descript terms are used to describe individuals. The people that are showcased don't really exist in the real world and completely misrepresent the reality, which consists of more moderate people who don't want to focus on social issues that are mostly constructs of those who live in fairy land.

Oh my giggidy-gosh, one whole commercial where there aren't any honest to goodness, god-fearing, straight white folk in sight. This commercial is undeniable evidence for the great replacement right here, people. Pretty soon we'll all be getting state-mandatory gender-removal surgery to become androgynous and prancing around in bulbous neon jumpsuits.

How absolutely vile that there's a movement out there called "woke" that wants to see everyone regardless of who they are treated with the same respect and dignity as everyone else. How immoral and disgusting that I'm being asked to accept others' differences from me when they don't align with my comfortable, narrow little sliver of worldview.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Oh my giggidy-gosh, one whole commercial where there aren't any honest to goodness, god-fearing, straight white folk in sight. This commercial is undeniable evidence for the great replacement right here, people. Pretty soon we'll all be getting state-mandatory gender-removal surgery to become androgynous and prancing around in bulbous neon jumpsuits.

How absolutely vile that there's a movement out there called "woke" that wants to see everyone regardless of who they are treated with the same respect and dignity as everyone else. How immoral and disgusting that I'm being asked to accept others' differences from me when they don't align with my comfortable, narrow little sliver of worldview.

I am not against diversity, I'm against the bastardisation of a social construct that is accepted by the majority of humans.

 

[eran0004]

It's woke because it suggests that gender doesn't exist and we must all be transvestites or something like that.

Where have you seen that?

It promotes the wrong kind of "group think" where non-descript terms are used to describe individuals.

How does it promote that?

The people that are showcased don't really exist in the real world
and completely misrepresent the reality, which consists of more moderate people who don't want to focus on social issues that are mostly constructs of those who live in fairy land.

They are not supposed to represent reality. They are supposed to represent the message “copy nothing”.

 

[RACECAR]

The fact people are deriving this kind of thinking from what is at best an awful hipster rebrand that feels nothing like a car brand (and more like a Fashion Commercial) is just...confounding. So by that definition, would me showing up in ANYTHING automatically make it "woke" too?

 

[Nielsen]

I do. I didn't reference a single one of them in my article post, so I don't what I "should already know" having posted it.

Ok. Whether you referenced the woke controversies or not has no bearing on it. You created the thread. Sometimes you write an article, but didn’t this time. In other words, you’re versed to the point where you should know what woke mentality is, and it’s the elephant in the room of this weird campaign.

The question was "What is "wokeness", what are the ideals behind it, and how are they being challenged?".

You defined "wokeness" by using the word "woke", which is self-referential.

I used another word because it seemed like you didn’t understand “wokeness”. My clarification followed right thereafter.

When asked to define "woke" you said "political correctness", which either means "woke" is just another word for "political correctness" (which is stupid) or your definition is not accurate.

Woke is not political correctness on its own. Political correctness becomes woke when people get preoccupied with the idea of being perceived as someone doing the right thing.

Woke mentality revolves around some people’s urge to “do the right thing” because they want to associate with ideas of what has been deemed politically correct by consensus.

When asked to define "political correctness" you said it was "a set of ideals pertaining to doing “the right thing”, but the right thing is influenced by a consensus".

Yes, and?

When I pointed out that this applies to an individual like the onr you brought up - Donald Trump (what better consensus is there than a plurality of nine-figures of American voters?) - you noped out. Apparently not permanently

Woke mentality doesn’t apply to Trump, and likely also not to the vast majority of his voters. I’m stating the obvious here. For the same reason you should not confuse the consensus behind what’s deemed politically correct with whom Americans have chosen to lead the United States. The voke-compatible choice would have been Harris. This is precisely why the election of Trump represents a challenge to JaGUar’s newfound woke direction. European brands cannot pretend that America and what’s happening there doesn’t exist. Yet, here we are. Trump is someone who vows to expose a so-called deep state, which to me sounds like a threat to the norms behind Western integrity, and this integrity is something woke mentality feeds upon.

Thus far you provided no definition, no ideals behind it, and of the challenges you posted you stated one had nothing to do with woke...

I have and the challenges I mentioned are challenges for JaGUar exactly because they represent circumstances which sustain woke mentality. Hence JaGUar seems tone-deaf, unless their stance is insisting hard on protecting the neoliberal agenda we’re all accustomed to. Though, is it a battle worth taking for a marque that’s already struggling? Like most observers I’m not convinced in the current political climate. It could be their downfall.

The question remains what is "wokeness"? Again, I'm vaguely aware of its AAVE, segregation era roots to mean "aware of social injustice", but I'm sure you don't mean that as I don't know how it would play into this scenario or what is challenging it.

That’s another definition of woke and not what I’m referring to.

Here, one ideal ascribed to "woke" is that gender doesn't exist and everyone must be transvestites. Which is weird, but at least an attempt at a definition - even if I'm not sure why this has been posted at the jaGUar ad where neither gender nor transvestitism is mentioned.

The gender theme is relevant here because the people depicted in the JaGUar ad are confronting traditional gender roles. They appear to be men and women, but certainly not the kind you encounter on an everyday basis.

Gender is only one part of it. Another is JaGUar’s intention to “go green”. Odd timing considering how the green agenda is lacking widespread support among car buyers - at least when it comes to adopting EVs. The Paris Agreement is also not standing strong with the United States expected to soon withdraw support once again. Good luck to the EU then.

It also leads to the question: does gender "exist"? Sex definitely does, but "gender" is, as far as I'm aware, merely a social construct.

Political correctness and woke mentality are informed by social constructs.

 

[LumpiestFish]

It's woke because it suggests that gender doesn't exist and we must all be transvestites or something like that. It promotes the wrong kind of "group think" where non-descript terms are used to describe individuals. The people that are showcased don't really exist in the real world and completely misrepresent the reality, which consists of more moderate people who don't want to focus on social issues that are mostly constructs of those who live in fairy land.

"Suggest that we all must be transvestites or something like that" Where? When? Because it features a couple of models with androgynous features? Because it the ads features the phrases 'break moulds' and 'delete ordinary'? It's all just nothing advertising speak. 'Luxury' brands have always had advertising campaigns that are more, I guess, conceptual, than those of more regular brands. You could see tonnes of ad campaigns similar that have come and gone without notice, (because conservative media must've had other things to drum up outrage over).

The whole thing has been so overblown. Yeah, the logo change is crap, and it's just a continuation of the minimalism trend of the 2020s (which isn't entirely a bad thing, but its definitely following a trend which makes the 'copy nothing' idea laughable), but the scene that this had created is absurd.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Where have you seen that?

In the ad.

How does it promote that?

By putting people in strange outfits, giving them unusual haircuts and not making it clear which gender they are.

They are not supposed to represent reality. They are supposed to represent the message “copy nothing”.

But the message doesn't make sense because they're copying the sort of thing done by Bud Light.

The whole thing has been so overblown. Yeah, the logo change is crap, and it's just a continuation of the minimalism trend of the 2010s (which isn't entirely a bad thing, but its definitely following a trend which makes the 'copy nothing' idea laughable), but the scene that this had created is absurd.

I'd say that it's completely justified.

 

[McLaren]

Yes, gender is a social construct but it's such an integral part of our world. You can call it oppression if you like but if you tear down this social construct, people's physical and mental well being are at great risk. You can't have biological men in female prisons and you can't have non-gendered toilets because all it will do is increase cases of sexual assault. It's a dangerous ideology.

These are very odd things to point to. A male prisoner in a women's prison doesn't mean he's going to rule the roost, & women have suffered sexual assault from cis-gendered male guards supposed to overlook them, but this seems conveniently overlooked in favor of arguing about a transgendered inmate going into a female prison which I'm going to bet is a lot less likely of a scenario versus male guards who take advantage of female prisoners.

When she got downstairs, she said Widen offered to save her some money by opening “the cage,” a little room with free washers and dryers reserved for new prisoners who hadn’t yet started their jobs.

She gratefully stepped inside. And then, she said, everything changed.

“He’s rubbing himself,” she said, while reminding her of all the little favors he’d done for her. “He was like … ‘It’s time to pay.’”

Youst is part of the fastest-growing population behind bars — women, most of whom are locked up for nonviolent crimes that often are drug-related. Though female prisoners long have been victims of sexual violence, the number of reports against correctional staff has exploded nationwide in recent years. Many complaints follow a similar pattern: Accusers are retaliated against, while those accused face little or no punishment.

As part of a two-year investigation that has exposed everything from multinational companies benefiting from prison labor to incarcerated workers’ lack of rights and protections, AP reporters spoke to more than 100 current and former prisoners nationwide, including women who said they were sexually abused by correctional staff.

Prison work assignments used to lure and rape female inmates. Guards sometimes walk free

When she got downstairs, she said Widen offered to save her some money by opening “the cage,” a little room with free washers and dryers reserved for new prisoners who hadn’t yet started their jobs. Widen was charged two years later and pleaded not guilty, but the case continues to crawl...

www.yahoo.com

Non-gendered toilets have also been a thing for decades under the term single occupancy.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Non-gendered toilets have also been a thing for decades under the term single occupancy.

No it has not. The only gender neutral toilets I've seen are disabled ones, which as you say, are used by one person at a time.

 

[eran0004]

In the ad.

By putting people in strange outfits, giving them unusual haircuts and not making it clear which gender they are.

Oh dear. So anytime you see someone with an appearance that doesn’t conform to the norm you automatically assume they must be transvestites?

But the message doesn't make sense because they're copying the sort of thing done by Bud Light.

So what? That’s still the message they’re trying to send. Just because someone else has done something similar before doesn’t mean that they’re now trying to make you a transvestite “or something like that”.

 

[McLaren]

No it has not. The only gender neutral toilets I've seen are disabled ones, which as you say, are used by one person at a time.

Gender neutral is the same thing as non-gender; the bathroom does not designate a gender intended to use it. Airplane bathrooms are prime examples since they are to be used by everyone.

Edit* I'll take my point is conceded to regarding the "concern" about males in female prisons committing sexual assault is strangely dropped if the male is a correctional officer.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Oh dear. So anytime you see someone with an appearance that doesn’t conform to the norm you automatically assume they must be transvestites?

I would be unsure about their gender identity, so I probably would make that assumption.

So what? That’s still the message they’re trying to send. Just because someone else has done something similar before doesn’t mean that they’re now trying to make you a transvestite “or something like that”.

That's what most of Bud Light's customers thought when they placed Dylan Mulvaney in their advertising material.

 

[McLaren]

That's what most of Bud Light's customers thought when they placed Dylan Mulvaney in their advertising material.

If someone sees Bud Light featuring a transgender person to promote their beer as Bud Light "trying to make them a transvestite", the issue lies deep within' them. I see gay people in ads & I don't suddenly have a desire to have sex with my homies b/c of a pill advertisement.

It should be noted the most vocal critics also exposed themselves as hypocrites/morons who would post pictures of their new favorite beer without realizing that beer is also owned by Anheuser-Busch or someone like Kid Rock who would be seen still drinking Bud Light at a concert.

 

[Nessy]

The low centre of gravity that EV packaging allows certainly favours the sort of handling you’d want or expect from a sports car, but with most EVs that packaging usually means the driver and passengers sit on top of the batteries, so your driving position isn’t optimal for a sports car and it’s styling would probably suffer too. I guess, especially with less need for overall range, you could package the batteries more creatively - up front or directly behind the driver where an engine would usually go, but that may compromise the benefits of EV CoG.

Yes I'm curious about what approach they'll take to packaging too. I think Lotus has been researching quite a bit about that, though it remains to be seen what solutions they eventually come up with. I did see renders that they did a while back, where they'd stacked relatively small cells between the driver and passenger (kinda like a transmission tunnel style placement), with the rest stacked behind in a traditional MR layout. And I like Porsches approach with their Taycan, where they place cells in the void beneath the seating position (below the knees).

I think this is why I'm looking forward to Jaguars approach, (with regards to the 4-door). I know it's heavily camo'ed and cladded, but it does look fairly low slung, and that long bonnet could potentially be where they end up placing the cells, albeit in a nice low CoG configuration, something like a mid biased FR.

Gender neutral is the same thing as non-gender; the bathroom does not designate a gender intended to use it. Airplane bathrooms are prime examples since they are to be used by everyone.

Same with coaches.

[EDIT]
Discussions about Bud Light has got me thinking.. Has Jaguar secretly been trying to make heterosexual men gay for years? I mean the E-Type is arguably one the most phallic cars ever created, and we all seem to drool and slather over its looks, (not that there's anything wrong with that).

 

[ScottPuss20]

If someone sees Bud Light featuring a transgender person to promote their beer as Bud Light "trying to make them a transvestite", the issue lies deep within' them.

Perhaps it does but that's not an excuse to destroy your brand's image.

 

[eran0004]

I would be unsure about their gender identity, so I probably would make that assumption.

Then the problem is with you - not with Jaguar’s ad.

That's what most of Bud Light's customers thought

Citation required.

when they placed Dylan Mulvaney in their advertising material.

What advertising material did they place her in? On Wikipedia it says that they sponsored one of her videos on Instagram, so it would be more accurate to say that they placed Bud Light in Dylan’s feed, trying to reach her audience.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Then the problem is with you - not with Jaguar’s ad.

Yes. I am the problem. Not the marketing which is no way reflects anything of substance.

Citation required.

Didn't you see videos of people shooting cans of Bud Light? Or tipping it out into a bin?

What advertising material did they place her in? On Wikipedia it says that they sponsored one of her videos on Instagram, so it would be more accurate to say that they placed Bud Light in Dylan’s feed, trying to reach her audience.

One video is enough to alienate an entire group of customers. Which it did and now the company is in trouble.