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Great article and damning report on state and character of this studio. Utter shambles. Just let them die.
Jalopnik article discussing future of GT and eSports racing
- Thread starter jimihemmy
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Yeah, I read the article and the podium wheel thing is a disgrace. If it’s you (Bentley?) they certainly should’ve given a wheel to both of you. I suspect the person handing it over just gave it to the wrong person; was Super Gt on the podium too? Agree wholeheartedly.
But re the overall disappointment with how the series has developed, of course I understand it, but unless there were specific promises made the players taking part are just facing what we all face in our careers and life in general, ie being let down. It would be good if the series had grown and PD put more into it, but they apparently didn’t.
Perhaps if the players all joined together to try and get some answers/clarity as a group, or talked to the press as a group, maybe Sony or PD might start explaining things. There must be a reason why things turned out how they have. Somebody knows. If all the players decided to boycott a big event just before it was set to start it’d be interesting to see PD’s reaction. It’s not like the players have very much to lose by the sound of it...
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ICEYOU3
(Banned)
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So I assume most of those players have or will eventually move over to ACC to compete professionally?
The Stars of Gran Turismo's World Tournament See No Future in the Game (Update)
Lavish production and FIA backing convinced players that GT was a springboard to a motorsports or esports career. Years later, that dream has vanished.jalopnik.com
Jalopnik has an interesting article regarding how some FIAGTC / GTWS participants feel about GT and eSports.
Thoughts?
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- LewisBentley6
Yeah no worries, was just setting a record straight in case it was open to interpretation, but I think the story answers that side of things well by itself. Its not necessarily about broken promises (expect in my own unique situation) but rather the disappointment among players that this really had the potential to be something more. That and the fact that I think many people assumed these players were getting paid for endeavours in the FIAGTC and being included in GT7... This will help to close that false assumption off a bit.
I have long since moved on from Gran Turismo itself, so this is really the next generation of competitive GT players issue now and not mine, but I think its really important that this story is out there - mainly for the people who have perhaps thought about investing so much time and effort into something that really has nothing in return for them.
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- FredzyN2
I like Adam at Jalopnik a lot, he did great work with this article. I think this should be on GTP's front page really.
I never followed GT's FIA championship too closely, checked it out from time to time. It was striking to me how Gran Turismo-like it was. I mean obviously, but it seemed unique in the eSports universe. All of the typical GT production values adhered to strictly. Uniformity, high quality production, consistency. No actual teams or sponsors.. All nice to look at, but the important fundamentals were missed or broken (people need a reason to commit their lives to something.. and everyone involved needs to make a living.. open up to sponsors..) Perfection to a fault. A perfect analogy to GT itself.
I never followed GT's FIA championship too closely, checked it out from time to time. It was striking to me how Gran Turismo-like it was. I mean obviously, but it seemed unique in the eSports universe. All of the typical GT production values adhered to strictly. Uniformity, high quality production, consistency. No actual teams or sponsors.. All nice to look at, but the important fundamentals were missed or broken (people need a reason to commit their lives to something.. and everyone involved needs to make a living.. open up to sponsors..) Perfection to a fault. A perfect analogy to GT itself.
Really sad to read this kinda of stuff. Doesnt make any sense how Sony lost control over this franchise.
Sony have to ask or probably will have to recruit new talent and new leadership to this studio.
I love GT but i dont know how the only thing that comes to my mind its Sonic the mascot from Sega.
The way GT its heading to, the lack of awareness from PD its dangerous to Sony brand or probably Sony its the one to blame ho knows..., but both entitys are for shure.
We can look to the small things that we cannot find ingame..., how the hell we are still stucked with so few camera options in 2022, a very small thing but GT its a AAA game and a reference.
Concerning the subject, how is it possible in esports competition at this lvl, why theres no sponsors and liveries from teams in Nations for example.
In my small country in private leagues people do amazing jobs concerning liveries, its amazing to watch.
Inst GT a racing game? Standart liveries? No sponsors? No external money and suport to the virtual drivers that invest so many time in this game...
In the space of 5 years imagine if Kunos launch Assetto Corsa 2 with improvements over Assetto Corsa Competizione base...
Forza Motorsport will launch next year in a new engine, if they get things right both Microsoft and Kunos will lead the industry.
PD its just taking to much time and spending to much time in their old ways of doing things.
I still play GT but the studio really need new minds, real sports already have the formula, just end the restrictions and get involved with the industry.
Implement the simple things a recent racing game must have is that hard :S?
Sony have to ask or probably will have to recruit new talent and new leadership to this studio.
I love GT but i dont know how the only thing that comes to my mind its Sonic the mascot from Sega.
The way GT its heading to, the lack of awareness from PD its dangerous to Sony brand or probably Sony its the one to blame ho knows..., but both entitys are for shure.
We can look to the small things that we cannot find ingame..., how the hell we are still stucked with so few camera options in 2022, a very small thing but GT its a AAA game and a reference.
Concerning the subject, how is it possible in esports competition at this lvl, why theres no sponsors and liveries from teams in Nations for example.
In my small country in private leagues people do amazing jobs concerning liveries, its amazing to watch.
Inst GT a racing game? Standart liveries? No sponsors? No external money and suport to the virtual drivers that invest so many time in this game...
In the space of 5 years imagine if Kunos launch Assetto Corsa 2 with improvements over Assetto Corsa Competizione base...
Forza Motorsport will launch next year in a new engine, if they get things right both Microsoft and Kunos will lead the industry.
PD its just taking to much time and spending to much time in their old ways of doing things.
I still play GT but the studio really need new minds, real sports already have the formula, just end the restrictions and get involved with the industry.
Implement the simple things a recent racing game must have is that hard :S?
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- FMecha_EXE
Great article! Thought-provoking. I only wish Polyphony would have spoken more about their goals for GT.
My impression is that Polyphony's goal is to eliminate the gap between Gran Turismo and real-world racing. They want the game to be seen as virtual racing, and the players being seen as (and sometimes hired as) pro race car drivers helps legitimize Gran Turismo. Player sponsors, pro GT players, and eSports aren't part of their plan. Their plan is for people to consider GT to be as good as real-world racing. Not its own thing, but a simulacra.
The rest of the gaming world sees eSports as the end goal, and don't care much about tie-ins to real-world car racing. There are plenty of GT fans waiting to watch GT as an eSport, and all these poor, unsuspecting GT players showed up hoping to become eSports stars. They were expecting to wear sponsored shirts and have a steering wheel named after them like their eSports brethren in other games. Instead, they found that Polyphony isn't really interested in eSports; they're just after the glitz of the event.
There's three ways this could play out, in ascending order of likelihood:
The market can make #3 happen, and we can see it beginning now. FIA+ACC is going to take some market. It's not unlikely that Turn10 is cooking up "Forza eMotosports" as part of their next game. And iRacing is already there for those willing to pay.
If/when a competitor comes along and vacuums up all the pro players from GT, Polyphony will find the shoe is on the other foot as the talent level of their players at their events goes down, and nobody cares about GT anymore for multiplayer. Which is a huge potential loss of revenue and exposure for Polyphony, but if they don't want to make an eSports game, nobody can force them.
My impression is that Polyphony's goal is to eliminate the gap between Gran Turismo and real-world racing. They want the game to be seen as virtual racing, and the players being seen as (and sometimes hired as) pro race car drivers helps legitimize Gran Turismo. Player sponsors, pro GT players, and eSports aren't part of their plan. Their plan is for people to consider GT to be as good as real-world racing. Not its own thing, but a simulacra.
The rest of the gaming world sees eSports as the end goal, and don't care much about tie-ins to real-world car racing. There are plenty of GT fans waiting to watch GT as an eSport, and all these poor, unsuspecting GT players showed up hoping to become eSports stars. They were expecting to wear sponsored shirts and have a steering wheel named after them like their eSports brethren in other games. Instead, they found that Polyphony isn't really interested in eSports; they're just after the glitz of the event.
There's three ways this could play out, in ascending order of likelihood:
- Polyphony could suddenly start caring about eSports.
- Someone else comes along and operates GT as an eSport. (Nigh-impossible without Polyphony support.)
- Someone else comes along and makes everyone forget about GT
The market can make #3 happen, and we can see it beginning now. FIA+ACC is going to take some market. It's not unlikely that Turn10 is cooking up "Forza eMotosports" as part of their next game. And iRacing is already there for those willing to pay.
If/when a competitor comes along and vacuums up all the pro players from GT, Polyphony will find the shoe is on the other foot as the talent level of their players at their events goes down, and nobody cares about GT anymore for multiplayer. Which is a huge potential loss of revenue and exposure for Polyphony, but if they don't want to make an eSports game, nobody can force them.
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They’re not the same people perhaps? Personally I have absolutely no interest in the single player, I’ve done no licenses or missions that I haven’t had to. Other people have no interest in sport mode. The schizophrenic hybrid of the two sides of the game has compromised both. Oil changes, buying tyres, that shouldn’t be anywhere near sport mode.
GT7 single player and GTsport2 for ps5 only would have made more sense.
The World Series drivers of GT Self remembered Kaz about the shame of the traditional GT while the live events. He understood and now they are the persons, who are unlucky about GT and not seriously esport.
Maybe, they instead should have told him about what a better esport aspect could get and not about bring brack the old GT.
I can’t understand.
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- LewisBentley6
Well yes, that's the point of the article. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? That people shouldn't be disappointed by anything they're not promised? That it shouldn't be highlighted in an article?
They hoped it would develop into something more, it didn't. That's the article. Just saying "well they weren't promised anything" seems a rather weird response, of course nobody can be promised something like that.
Surely the natural response should be asking/wondering why it didn't develop and who, if anyone, is to blame.
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I do have to shake my head in disbelief at this kind of hate & toxicity.
Gran Turismo is a mainstream title for both hardcore players and the most casual of casuals. It’s a title that’s given gamers real life motorsport opportunities via the Nissan GT Academy. Giving others a wonderful chance to travel the globe, all expenses paid. Experiences some will cherish as once in a lifetime opportunities. Others will see them as a stepping stone to a career in esports, real world motorsport, or as an influencer.
Given Sony’s increasing investment in esport’s I could well see them developing the GT World Series into a Pro focused event. I don’t necessarily think that’s the right direction. As a viewer I like to see new faces competing. I can see the appeal of an ‘All Stars’ event. But I don’t want to see the same two dozen faces year after year.
The article in question was well written & balanced. I do question the motivations & timing of said article. Focusing on one competitor who, in his own words, has long since moved on from Gran Turismo. The last live event was some 2 years ago and this will be the first held on GT7.
While I understand frustrations with how the series has developed. World events have been the biggest hinderance to growth. We’ll have to see how many live events PD have planned. Stats clearly show serious online competitors make-up a tiny proportion of the playerbase. PD must also realise the biggest viewing numbers came when they used these events to preview new content.
The world has been in flux and the demands of the Gran Turismo community are very different. PD know that more than anyone given the vitriol after GTS was revealed. Catering for everyone is easier said than done.
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From my experience, GTP tends to be one of the better sim racing news sites and editorially is pretty fair to most titles (both in praise and criticism where it’s warranted).
It may be the biggest GT fanbase outside of the games themselves, but it’s not an official Sony/Polyphony blog so they’re free to say what they like and while Gran Turismo has its issues, there’s generally more good than bad happening with the games (as it the case for most videogame releases).
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There's a comment on Reddit discussing that article I feel is worth reading:
The audience and participant simply isn't there. Just check GT7's trophies. 14.7% players played ONE or more Sports mode races, 2.0% players played more than 50 Sports mode races. In that reddit thread somebody said 85% players of GT Sport never played online, which is strikingly similar.
The audience and participant simply isn't there. Just check GT7's trophies. 14.7% players played ONE or more Sports mode races, 2.0% players played more than 50 Sports mode races. In that reddit thread somebody said 85% players of GT Sport never played online, which is strikingly similar.
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* Sport Mode races
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Not strictly true.
Nearly 50 Million People Tuned in to GT Sport's World Tours Last Year, Up 300%
The 2019 season of the GT Sport FIA Online Championship was action-packed and full of drama and controversy. Across six live events we saw some amazing highs and some disheartening lows, but if you tuned in to watch you were far from alone. Speaking at the launch of the 2020 season, Polyphony Dig
www.gtplanet.net
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Hmm. Yes, it’s fair enough to ask/wonder about those things, of course. Whether anyone needs to be ‘blamed’, I’m not so sure.
The players were there, presumably with access to Sony and PD staff, face to face. Did anyone at any time outline any plans, or did any of the players think to ask about them? I’d like to think I would’ve done (if I had future aspirations).
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- LewisBentley6
Those figures were always immensely dodgy and I never believed them. They claimed 300% growth but I think 2019 also hosted about 300% more content than 2018Not strictly true.
Nearly 50 Million People Tuned in to GT Sport's World Tours Last Year, Up 300%
The 2019 season of the GT Sport FIA Online Championship was action-packed and full of drama and controversy. Across six live events we saw some amazing highs and some disheartening lows, but if you tuned in to watch you were far from alone. Speaking at the launch of the 2020 season, Polyphony Dig
2019 had a mass multitude of Superstars races and more World Tours than any other year. I would have hoped it got the most views!
Indeed!Just realised you’re at Codies
I meant in terms of the events themselves for the players but I always found those numbers fishy anyway.Not strictly true.
Nearly 50 Million People Tuned in to GT Sport's World Tours Last Year, Up 300%
The 2019 season of the GT Sport FIA Online Championship was action-packed and full of drama and controversy. Across six live events we saw some amazing highs and some disheartening lows, but if you tuned in to watch you were far from alone. Speaking at the launch of the 2020 season, Polyphony Dig
You look at the Youtube channel today, none of the full videos have more than a few hundred K views.
Where did they get 11.7 Million from? And 28 million on Facebook? I don't buy it, they've fudged those numbers somehow.
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Equipment he either paid for himself or been offered by sponsors. Sponsors who are attracted by his social media & YouTube followings.
That tells you why PD are interested in bringing these influencers on board. Amongst the esports players I can honestly only name Hizal, Fraga & (through his YouTube channel) Tidgney. I couldn’t name a single other esports player on any platform or game.
Live GT events always made a big splash. Even if the multi-million viewership figures where massaged by video ad’s. The fact still remains it’s been 2 years since any in-person event. We don’t know if viewers will flock to the weekends races. Or if the whole esports motorsport scene peaked when we had real world drivers dipping their feet in.
As a viewer I’m more interested in new faces and storylines. I don’t know who’s supposed to be paying esports players when most don’t have a public profile or following to speak of. Talent alone isn’t enough as many real world drivers discover.
I’ll tell you what would drive huge viewership. Announcing ahead there’ll be track & car reveals. Even an interview with Kaz discussing upcoming features. Once you have the audience tuned in. Maybe they’ll stick around and become a regular viewer.
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