Jalopnik article discussing future of GT and eSports racing

[MisterWaffles]

Meh.

The participants signed up for these events knowing what they were going to get out of it. Everyone got what they were informed they would receive upon completion and that’s that. Getting outraged because you didn’t get the wheel you were supposed to get vs an influencer getting it when they were supposed to receive it are two different things.

Sony or Polyphony did nothing wrong based on the terms of their agreements, so I don’t see what the problem is. Ultimately every event they choose to compete in is their choice because they signed on the dotted line.

But man I wish I was in the position where I get to be disappointed that playing a video game isn’t a viable career path.

Also to be fair, for the vast majority of drivers outside of the big racing series being a real driver isn’t a viable career path either. You better have some other job lined up if you can’t land a drive.

 

[tankuroded]

Yep. It’s weird. Exposure. All of them must’ve agreed to it. Is there any prominent player not appearing in the game?

Edit: would be interesting to know if any of the non-drivers (Sony employees?) like Sarah, Luca and the gang got paid anything.

Cody IIRC said no to it.

 

[glassjaw]

Yep. It’s weird. Exposure. All of them must’ve agreed to it. Is there any prominent player not appearing in the game?

Edit: would be interesting to know if any of the non-drivers (Sony employees?) like Sarah, Luca and the gang got paid anything.

I wrote the piece. I believe Lewis is one of the few who does not.

 

[BloodRaven]

I remember a few years ago when winning the GT Academy event meant you got a shot with a real racing team. What happened with that? It seemed to go for a couple years, then stop.

 

[tankuroded]

I remember a few years ago when winning the GT Academy event meant you got a shot with a real racing team. What happened with that? It seemed to go for a couple years, then stop.

It's speculated it has something to do with Nissan winding down their global motorsports operations during the Ghosn scandal (to the point they sold off NISMO.TV to what's now The Race). That being said, I always feel the televised stuff and the extra training after a winner has been chosen from that gives me a "Tough Enough on four wheels" vibe.

 

[queleuleu]

Another fail for Poly... This studio is so poorly managed. Nothing makes sense and Sony is far too nice with Poly.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I remember a few years ago when winning the GT Academy event meant you got a shot with a real racing team. What happened with that? It seemed to go for a couple years, then stop.

It went for quite a while before Nissan reducing their expenditures axed the program. IMO it was better than this eSports stuff they have going now...

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Nothing makes sense and Sony is far too nice with Poly.

Well Sony owns them via PlayStation Studios and also what they (Sony) care about most (or probably only) is the money they bring in for Sony/PlayStation. Sony wouldn’t jeopardize the financial aspect by being hard on them as long as they’re selling well they don’t care how people feel about them. Its like how other major corporations will always treat their most profitable divisions better no matter how poorly they may be run internally at that level or how people feel about their products….if they’re selling don’t rock the boat.

 

[Madertus]

Changes to the championship format, plus the realization that no amount of success in GT was likely to open up full-time career opportunities, led Rigaud to quit competing at the top level. But that doesn’t mean you won’t see his face in the game.

“Some of us, me included, ended up being characters in GT7,” Rigaud said. “I believe none of us got financial payment out of this, making it ‘paid in exposure.’”

Bentley went so far as to bring up the idea of paying drivers with a Polyphony employee over dinner in Austria. (...) This was the day after the podium scene, where Bentley was presented with a Thrustmaster steering wheel that was snatched back the moment the cameras were turned off.

“(...) I offhandedly mentioned the possibility of players being paid in the future,” Bentley said. “The response I got (...) was, ‘well, I’m not sure why we still run these events to be honest, as they just lose us loads of money.’”

Bentley wasn’t satisfied with that answer.

“I just started getting more irritated and argumentative about why that’s relevant.” The company was clearly willing to spend millions of dollars on big, flashy events. Why not send a small portion of directly to the players? “My argument got walled off at this point with, ‘look, you guys will get paid when we do.’”

Jeeeeesus...

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

Something that I feel like should be mentioned more is that Gran Turismo was involved with the Olympics. I feel like this makes it extremely obvious that GT makes plenty of money for companies that are involved with its Esport. The Olympics could have chosen a basketball video game which theoretically makes more sense because basketball is already in the Olympics.
If money could be made during the pandemic following the rules of the Olympics, I guarantee that enough money is made under normal circumstances where they can have their own regulations that the competitors and especially the winners can be paid quite a lot of money.
After having a successful TV show, Olympic event and upcoming movie based around Esports, there is no excuse to not pay its top Esports players.

 

[Famine]

The Olympics could have chosen a basketball video game which theoretically makes more sense because basketball is already in the Olympics.

It didn't just pick Gran Turismo (or rather "auto racing"). There were five Olympic Esports in the event: baseball, cycling, motorsport, rowing, and sailing.

 

[cassiusclay99]

I really hope some reporter will investigate on what the hell is going on at PD's.

I do think that their decision process and all their production chain is all over the place. Nothing seems right or makes sense.

Looks like they systematically make the worst decisions... and stick by them: no matter what.

Not even gonna talk about their abyssmal communication...

I am dying to know what s going on at PD's headquarters.

A train wreck in slow motion.

 

[alex511]

I really hope some reporter will investigate on what the hell is going on at PD's.

I do think that their decision process and all their production chain is all over the place. Nothing seems right or makes sense.

Looks like they systematically make the worst decisions... and stick by them: no matter what.

Not even gonna talk about their abyssmal communication...

I am dying to know what s going on at PD's headquarters.

A train wreck in slow motion

delete

 

[Theufcveteran]

Not getting paid for being in the game reminds me of r/choosingbeggars - you won’t get any money, but we’re paying you in exposure! I guess it isn’t good business, try to spend as little as possible for the most profit, but man, it’s low. And I feel like at some point, the potential blowback outweighs the money saved.

 

[alex511]

60 millions or so are to less budget for Gran Turismo. That’s the point.



ironic off.

 

[Samus]

Meh.

The participants signed up for these events knowing what they were going to get out of it. Everyone got what they were informed they would receive upon completion and that’s that. Getting outraged because you didn’t get the wheel you were supposed to get vs an influencer getting it when they were supposed to receive it are two different things.

So just because everyone got what they expected at the time that means you're not allowed to question afterwards that maybe you were a bit disappointed with it?

Have you never looked back on something in that way, taking what you were given as better than nothing but believing you deserved or hoped for better?

Sony or Polyphony did nothing wrong based on the terms of their agreements, so I don’t see what the problem is. Ultimately every event they choose to compete in is their choice because they signed on the dotted line.

But man I wish I was in the position where I get to be disappointed that playing a video game isn’t a viable career path.

Also to be fair, for the vast majority of drivers outside of the big racing series being a real driver isn’t a viable career path either. You better have some other job lined up if you can’t land a drive.

Did you actually read the whole article? Most of their frustration is that these events have not led to anything further at all.

They aren't really talking about becoming a real racing driver, they're mainly looking at other games eSports progression and the fact GT hasn't made this progression.

I m not into eSports at all but I know that there are many games which have ascended to huge multi million dollar experiences. Is it really unreasonable to expect that GT would have made that progression as well?

You can't just blame it on the genre either. Whilst yes, a racing game is never going to reach the insane levels of a moba or FPS, there are games which have moved on in very quick time. F1 eSports is way beyond GT in a shorter time so again, is it wrong of these guys to expect or hope GT also expanded to give them a similar platform?

GT eSports events and experience hasn't changed at all. Events today are the same as day 1. They're still a tiny dot in the esports world. Some videos of events have less than 5,000 views in 6 months.

They aren't saying they wanted or expected to be full time GT eSports racers but they expected something more to progress, more opportunities.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I really hope some reporter will investigate on what the hell is going on at PD's.

I do think that their decision process and all their production chain is all over the place. Nothing seems right or makes sense.

Looks like they systematically make the worst decisions... and stick by them: no matter what.

Not even gonna talk about their abyssmal communication...

I am dying to know what s going on at PD's headquarters.

A train wreck in slow motion.

They're in Japan, good luck with that.

 

[GTboyz]

Wow.

 

[Nebuc72]

I find it interesting the sentiment at the top level on the stage echoes the sentiment a lot of people have about participating in the GTWS events at all.

For most players, unless you're in that top 0.1%, there's no actual point (aside from the racing itself) in entering as you're not going to get on stage, you're not going to win anything, and you're not going to get anything from it. I always assumed (I don't read the rules and regulations, I assume most people don't) they'd get some form of prize money from it, because what esport doesn't do that? Turns out they get essentially nowt either, and people are leaving the scene because of it.

PD do make me laugh. They sit on the cusp of such great and interesting things, they have the potential to try and push a thriving ingame competitive scene by dishing out credits for the GTWS races, encouraging people to enter the races to try and score big. Imagine if you got 5 million for claiming a first in a GTWS race, I'm certain you'd see a lot more people entering because lo and behold, it's now worth their time! I mean hell, they have that "points" system based on your DR, why not give out a prize based on the amount of points you scored in a race? Get 100 points, get 1 million credits; and so on.

This just needs to be echoed at the top with a real reward. Make it worth peoples time. I don't see how they can push an esports face when they give no incentive for people to dedicate more time to it than they would a full time job. It's not easy to be that fast.

 

[PJTierney]

It really is a shame that the one game in this genre (on console) that made a really good effort of being a esports ready game was also the one where the publisher actively worked against there being any potential for a grassroots esports scene. 🥺

It always felt odd that people were putting in so much effort and time to be the best at GT Sport without any possibility of getting sponsors, prize money or a chance at a full-time income from driving talent alone (ie: not also being a “content creator”).

As somebody that has helped run esports series (DiRT Rally 2.0) in the past and also spent 10+ years in the competitive card game industry, it’s never sat right with me that somebody could put 40+ hours a week into something with practically zero chance of a return on investment, especially when there are several other (non-racing) games that are quite lucrative for hard-working and highly-skilled players. That kind of drive and grind will obliterate your mental health after a while.

Also, the players would have known in advance that a particular season had no prizing, though I guess their motivation was that if the series became big/popular enough that future seasons become more open to sponsorship/monetisation. I’m not surprised some players are moving to iRacing, Assetto Corsa Competizione or F1 Esports as there’s at least some prize money in all of those at the top level (and also at grassroots too to a smaller degree).

 

[Samus]

I find it interesting the sentiment at the top level on the stage echoes the sentiment a lot of people have about participating in the GTWS events at all.

For most players, unless you're in that top 0.1%, there's no actual point (aside from the racing itself) in entering as you're not going to get on stage, you're not going to win anything, and you're not going to get anything from it. I always assumed (I don't read the rules and regulations, I assume most people don't) they'd get some form of prize money from it, because what esport doesn't do that? Turns out they get essentially nowt either, and people are leaving the scene because of it.

PD do make me laugh. They sit on the cusp of such great and interesting things, they have the potential to try and push a thriving ingame competitive scene by dishing out credits for the GTWS races, encouraging people to enter the races to try and score big. Imagine if you got 5 million for claiming a first in a GTWS race, I'm certain you'd see a lot more people entering because lo and behold, it's now worth their time! I mean hell, they have that "points" system based on your DR, why not give out a prize based on the amount of points you scored in a race? Get 100 points, get 1 million credits; and so on.

This just needs to be echoed at the top with a real reward. Make it worth peoples time. I don't see how they can push an esports face when they give no incentive for people to dedicate more time to it than they would a full time job. It's not easy to be that fast.

I said this in the GTWS thread but just got attacked by the elitist "Only the best deserve a prize, 2nd is the first loser" crowd. Then they wonder why so few take part or discuss it.

 

[Nuschel01]

I mean hell, they have that "points" system based on your DR, why not give out a prize based on the amount of points you scored in a race? Get 100 points, get 1 million credits; and so on.

DR is nothing to be grinded tho

 

[Nebuc72]

DR is nothing to be grinded tho

Sure, hence why I also said the "Imagine if you got 5 million for claiming a first in a GTWS race" part. There's ways to appease literally everyone and encourage everyone to get involved. To 90% of the playerbase otherwise, it's a worthless inclusion, for 9% they only take part in because it's fun (where I fall, hello!), and a very generous 1%, more likely 0.1%, might compete because they think they have a chance.

They obviously want to grow the competitive scene, as shown by encouraging people to pick who they think will win. Grow it by giving people a reason to race, there's no better way. People can do a race, and then tune in to see how the top dogs did on the same race.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I said this in the GTWS thread but just got attacked by the elitist "Only the best deserve a prize, 2nd is the first loser" crowd. Then they wonder why so few take part or discuss it.

Just read through it, what an ridiculously elitist view. It’s fine to have that view but to put others down for it is dumb. If you think anything but first in the biggest leagues is a consolation prize and you use that for motivation, great, whatever drives to keep improving. But let others have their fun - a win is a win, no matter what. Are you competing against the very best? No, but you’re competing against the best in your bracket and/or group of friends.

And even if you’re not, it doesn’t matter. First place is first place and you were the fastest/best out of those you competed with - not everyone is only satisfied if they win the top league trophy/World Series.

Everyone has different levels of desire. Some want to be the fastest and won’t settle for anything less. Others are fine with not being the best and still look to improve their driving skills through time trials or races with friends or just overall play time. And even if you don’t want to improve, it doesn’t matter. A win is a win.

What matters is what satisfies you. You celebrate that Sport mode win or win against your friends. Celebrate that podium in a tough race - or any race.

Celebrate what is worth celebrating for you. Just got into the points? Awesome! Got the win? Great! Won your league’s championship? Fantastic!

I know this is a bit off-topic for the thread but I just wanted to chime in on this.

 

[GTboyz]

I said this in the GTWS thread but just got attacked by the elitist "Only the best deserve a prize, 2nd is the first loser" crowd. Then they wonder why so few take part or discuss it.

I'm not surprised when that elitist is one of the people that I added to ignore list before.

 

[SestoScudo]

I said this in the GTWS thread but just got attacked by the elitist "Only the best deserve a prize, 2nd is the first loser" crowd. Then they wonder why so few take part or discuss it.

1st, 2nd and 3rd should get a prize. Just like with podiums.

Getting podiums is really a top honour. It should never be seen as something small because getting a podium always motivates a person to push for 1st.

 

[tankuroded]

They're in Japan, good luck with that.

inb4 there's workplace harassment issues coming from their foreign offices (Explore Studio, etc).

 

[Nagaremono]

So just because everyone got what they expected at the time that means you're not allowed to question afterwards that maybe you were a bit disappointed with it?

They are doing precisely that.

Have you never looked back on something in that way, taking what you were given as better than nothing but believing you deserved or hoped for better?

Last time I went to McDonald’s drive-thru.

Did you actually read the whole article? Most of their frustration is that these events have not led to anything further at all.

Ok, but were they promised anything further?

They aren't really talking about becoming a real racing driver, they're mainly looking at other games eSports progression and the fact GT hasn't made this progression.

Ok. But was there ever a plan for that to happen?

I m not into eSports at all but I know that there are many games which have ascended to huge multi million dollar experiences. Is it really unreasonable to expect that GT would have made that progression as well?

OK. But maybe PD don’t want this. Maybe they don’t want to encourage people to spend 40 or 50 hours a week playing a video game. Just speculation, I know, but I’d be really impressed if this was the reason.

You can't just blame it on the genre either. Whilst yes, a racing game is never going to reach the insane levels of a moba or FPS, there are games which have moved on in very quick time. F1 eSports is way beyond GT in a shorter time so again, is it wrong of these guys to expect or hope GT also expanded to give them a similar platform?

No, not wrong, perhaps, but I know what I’d do if I were them. If it’s really paying more, Esports F1 must look pretty enticing for a decent GT driver...
I see it as an IQ test of sorts.

GT eSports events and experience hasn't changed at all. Events today are the same as day 1. They're still a tiny dot in the esports world. Some videos of events have less than 5,000 views in 6 months.

Again, maybe PD’s decided all it wants to really do with online is to promote the manufacturers’ events (eg Toyota) where PD probably benefits financially from the relationship, rather than it lose money paying to use the FIA name.

They aren't saying they wanted or expected to be full time GT eSports racers but they expected something more to progress, more opportunities.

Ok, but tough. If they weren’t promised anything specific, that is.

 

[NRA]

Not only the eSports part but the game overall feels dead already. It's been over 4 months since release and the content added has been miniscule.

GT has been my favourite racing game series since forever and it is really sad how Sony & Kaz both driving once-beloved franchise into the ground (over-working & under-paying precious programmers & 3D modellers)

 

[mclarenLB]

Ok, but were they promised anything further?

Well, yes, a TGT that was directly handed to me on the top step of the podium which was then taken away once the cameras were turned off, of course, if you read the article, you'd know that already.

Its not hard to understand that some of us got into this in 2018 to get onto the ground floor of an FIA sanctioned competition which had plenty of promise to turn into the biggest racing esports competition around. Kaz even said in his end of Monaco 2018 speech to the competitors that "this event will be looked back upon like the first F1 season".

That has not happened, and the series has been in slow decline ever since. There's nothing wrong with being disappointed as a former competitor that this big budget FIA sanctioned competition simply just fizzled out. This doesn't mean that I don't understand why from a business perspective.