Jeep Thread

[Keef]

Oh wow, apparently it actually is about as big, several inches wider, than a Navigator or Escalade. They did a great job of hiding its size.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Jeep proclaims today to be 4xe Day and reveals three new cars with the Grand Wagoneer 4xe (500 mile range) to be announced at the NAIAS

Jeep Reveals 2024 Recon, 2024 Wagoneer S, 2023 Avenger Electric SUVs

Jeep announced an aggressive plan to go electric for its so-called 4xe day, revealing three out of four new EVs that will debut by 2025.

www.motor1.com

2024 Jeep Recon

It features removable doors, and the cabin opens further with a one-touch power top. Underneath, Jeep says it has trail-rated capability with Jeep Selec-Terrain traction management, e-locker axle tech, and beefy off-road tires. Other details regarding batteries, motor arrangement, or performance aren't mentioned, but we do know it rides on the Stellantis STLA large platform.

Speaking to journalists during the company's 4xe Day presentation, Jeep Brand CEO Christian Meunier pledged that the Recon is decidedly not a replacement for the Wrangler, despite the clear similarities. It will be manufactured in the United States and should enter production in 2024, and it will even be offered with a plethora of accessories for off-road upgrades at launch. Reservations for the Recon will open in early 2023.

2024 Jeep Wagoneer S

Jeep promises a 0-60 mph sprint of just 3.5 seconds, with an estimated range of 400 miles per charge.

The Wagoneer S also utilizes the STLA Large platform, and though it wears a Wagoneer badge, its presence is more in tune with the Grand Cherokee. An EV from the ground up, Jeep pledges generous interior space for the Wagoneer S, which slots into the midsize SUV segment. It will also be built in the US and enter production in 2024, with reservations beginning early next year.

2023 Jeep Avenger

Designed for the European market, it will also be sold in Japan and South Korea and slot below the Renegade in Jeep's lineup.

A full, official debut is slated for October 17 at the Paris Motor Show, and it will reach dealerships in early 2023.

 

[Joey D]

Man, FCA is milking that Avenger name aren't they? First it was a decent enough coupe, then it was a tragic sedan, now it's whatever that is.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Weird that they would reveal a production model(s) with obvious CG images. Doesn't give me a lot of faith it will actually make production in the timeframe given.

 

[Centroid]

Man, FCA is milking that Avenger name aren't they? First it was a decent enough coupe, then it was a tragic sedan, now it's whatever that is.

First it was one of these:-

Well technically it was one of those, with a Hillman badge.

 

[Keef]

2023 Jeep Avenger

View attachment 1191243

View attachment 1191244

Below the Renegade? Wow.

There have been some discussions within Jeep about a WRC program and more speedy/sporty focused small offerings. With this going to the Euro market and being small enough, it might be an opportunity to expand the meaning of Jeep...

 

[05XR8]

Saw one(the Wagoneer) in white no doubt, while dropping my daughter at school. Weird seeing a different looking Jeep. Looked more Kia than Jeep.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

2023 Jeep Avenger

Studio impressions of the new Jeep Avenger

I didn't realize it was an EV until now. I really wish they would bring it to the US, because it looks like such a nice little car.

It has some fun quirks and features too like in the bottom right of the windshield there's a drawing of a person looking through a telescope up at stars in the top left as well as a ladybug stamped in the plastic on the roof

 

[ProjectWHaT]

The Jeep Cherokee is dead. The Grand Cherokee name will continue for now, but as the article notes, that may also be retired soon as the Cherokee Nation had asked Jeep to remove the name in 2021

The Jeep Cherokee Is Dead After 49 Years

Jeep's iconic mid-size SUV was a game-changer, but the game kept changing. Now, it's bowing out after 49 years.

www.thedrive.com

The Jeep Cherokee has been discontinued after 49 years in production, a Jeep official confirmed to The Drive.

Jeep pared back the 2023 Cherokee's trim range after sales fell off a cliff with the SUV approaching a decade on the market. On March 1, Stellantis idled Belvidere Assembly in Illinois where the Cherokee is made, and that production freeze may become permanent as Stellantis draws nearer to negotiations with United Auto Workers later this year over the plant's future. A spokesperson for Stellantis said the automaker is committed to the segment going forward, but it's unclear whether its next midsize SUV will bear the Cherokee label, or when it might arrive.

The Cherokee's larger progeny, the Grand Cherokee, was renewed for 2022 and carries on the name—if not the direct vehicle lineage. With its plug-in hybrid drivetrain, it also better fits with Jeep's increasing emphasis on hybrids and EVs. It's unclear whether the Grand Cherokee nameplate may too be on the chopping block in a few years, as the SUV's namesake the Cherokee Nation asked Jeep to "retire" the name in 2021.

 

[Keef]

The Jeep Cherokee is dead. The Grand Cherokee name will continue for now, but as the article notes, that may also be retired soon as the Cherokee Nation had asked Jeep to remove the name in 2021

The Jeep Cherokee Is Dead After 49 Years

Jeep's iconic mid-size SUV was a game-changer, but the game kept changing. Now, it's bowing out after 49 years.

www.thedrive.com

I understand Cherokee Nation's desire to stop commercializing their name but I can't help but feel that partnering with Jeep for that specific reason would actually help the Nation in the long run. I wonder if they tried to negotiate some small royalty for the use of their name. Jeep sold 40,000 Cherokees in 2022 so if they negotiated $100 of each sale goes to Cherokee Nation, that's $4,000,000 donated to the them. What better way to celebrate exploring America's wilderness and heritage than by buying a Jeep and helping bolster Cherokee Nation's people and resources.

 

[Tornado]

It's unclear whether the Grand Cherokee nameplate may too be on the chopping block in a few years, as the SUV's namesake the Cherokee Nation asked Jeep to "retire" the name in 2021.

For the non-Jalopnikified translation: It's in fact not at all unclear, because that was over two years ago and Stellantis doesn't care and made it clear at the time that they didn't care and in fact cared so little that they debuted a whole new generation of Grand Cherokee since then and discontinuing the Cherokee had nothing to do with that in the first place and everything to do with this:

And this:

 

[Keef]

For the non-Jalopnikified translation: It's in fact not at all unclear, because that was over two years ago and Stellantis doesn't care and made it clear at the time that they didn't care and in fact cared so little that they debuted a whole new generation of Grand Cherokee since then and discontinuing the Cherokee had nothing to do with that in the first place and everything to do with this:


View attachment 1242292

And this:

View attachment 1242293

It's old. Good truck but it's a bit too soft and needs to be more like the 4Runner. I imagine the next one will be electric anyway.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

At the Stellantis Dealer Business Meeting 2023, they showcased in person the future Jeeps that were previewed earlier as seen above

Stellantis Shows Dealers Its Future Portfolio In Las Vegas

Stellantis, the multinational automaker created by the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Peugeot S.A., held its first dealer meeting in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand. The event, called the Stellantis Dealer Business Meeting 2023, showcased Stellantis' future plans as the industry moves...

moparinsiders.com

2025 Jeep (yet-to-be-named) Wagoneer S

Production is set to begin in 2024 at a plant in North America.

Customers in the U.S. will be able to make a reservation for the all-electric Wagoneer model soon, and will be sold in major markets worldwide, including Europe.

Jeep Recon Moab 4xe

According to Jeep CEO Christian Meunier, the Recon has the capability to cross the challenging Rubicon Trail and reach the end of the trail with enough range to drive back to town and recharge. The Jeep Recon will be displayed to the public in 2023, with production starting in North America in 2024. Customers in the U.S. will be able to make reservations for the new Jeep Recon BEV SUV soon, with availability in major markets around the world, including Europe.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

At the Stellantis Dealer Business Meeting 2023, they showcased in person the future Jeeps that were previewed earlier as seen above

Stellantis Shows Dealers Its Future Portfolio In Las Vegas

Stellantis, the multinational automaker created by the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Peugeot S.A., held its first dealer meeting in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand. The event, called the Stellantis Dealer Business Meeting 2023, showcased Stellantis' future plans as the industry moves...

moparinsiders.com

Jeep Recon Moab 4xe
According to Jeep CEO Christian Meunier, the Recon has the capability to cross the challenging Rubicon Trail and reach the end of the trail with enough range to drive back to town and recharge. The Jeep Recon will be displayed to the public in 2023, with production starting in North America in 2024. Customers in the U.S. will be able to make reservations for the new Jeep Recon BEV SUV soon, with availability in major markets around the world, including Europe.

The Rubicon Trail is a 22-mile off-road adventure that cuts across the Sierra Nevada, just outside of Lake Tahoe.

Am I missing something here?

 

[Joey D]

The Rubicon Trail is a 22-mile off-road adventure that cuts across the Sierra Nevada, just outside of Lake Tahoe.

Am I missing something here?

I'd actually be surprised if it could manage the Rubicon at all. It takes a high experience off-road driver in a good rig 5-6 hours to do the trail. The people I know who've done it burned through multiple tanks of fuel during the trip just due to how aggressively they needed to get in some areas. Sure an EV isn't going to be idling, but it's still going to be sucking power to get over obstacles.

Maybe under ideal conditions with an experienced driver and no waiting to get over obstacles, it'll manage, but I can't see the average dude buying one off the showroom floor and having enough juice to do the Rubicon.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'd actually be surprised if it could manage the Rubicon at all. It takes a high experience off-road driver in a good rig 5-6 hours to do the trail. The people I know who've done it burned through multiple tanks of fuel during the trip just due to how aggressively they needed to get in some areas. Sure an EV isn't going to be idling, but it's still going to be sucking power to get over obstacles.

Maybe under ideal conditions with an experienced driver and no waiting to get over obstacles, it'll manage, but I can't see the average dude buying one off the showroom floor and having enough juice to do the Rubicon.

Multiple tanks of fuel to go 22 miles? Granted I know almost nothing about off-roading, but that sounds insane.

 

[Joey D]

Multiple tanks of fuel to go 22 miles? Granted I know almost nothing about off-roading, but that sounds insane.

Idling is probably the biggest culprit, but 4LO and high revs to get over obstacles will eat fuel. Plus, when people go off-road they bring a ton of crap with them so weight becomes an issue.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I could be mistaken, but I think in some of the Rivian reviews, these EVs don't use up too much range when on off roading on trails since there's instant torque, you don't end up using much energy to get around tough obstacles

 

[Keef]

I could be mistaken, but I think in some of the Rivian reviews, these EVs don't use up too much range when on off roading on trails since there's instant torque, you don't end up using much energy to get around tough obstacles

EV battery usage is heavily tied to friction and air resistance moreso than distance. An EV could cook along at 10mph for like 500 miles because the effort needed to do so is so low. Likewise, air resistance is a non-factor while off-roading because you're going so slow. Friction, weight, and grade is more of a concern but it effects an ICE car the same way. The key is that ICE cars are more efficient at high speed while EVs are more efficient at low speed.

@Eunos_Cosmo The average speed on a trail like the Rubicon is about the same as cruising through Culver's drive through, i.e. extremely low and extremely inefficient. And even my Toyota's relatively high low-range only manages about 10 mph at 5000 rpm in first gear so you can burn fuel with a quickness in the right situation.

 

[Joey D]

Huh, now I'm curious about off-roading an EV.

I still think sitting idle while trying to run the six million accessories some off-roader put on their rigs will definitely hurt. And don't forget that as an off-roader you need to run your high-powered LED light pods as all times, even in the middle of the day in California.

 

[Keef]

Huh, now I'm curious about off-roading an EV.

I still think sitting idle while trying to run the six million accessories some off-roader put on their rigs will definitely hurt. And don't forget that as an off-roader you need to run your high-powered LED light pods as all times, even in the middle of the day in California.

Speaking of high powered lights, each of those ditch light square pods you see on the cowl of trucks, or the Rigid amber fogs on TRD Pros, those pods are only about 18w each. A full-width light bar can burn around 200w but that's still a whopping 2-3 incandescent bulbs worth of power. A single halogen low-beam bulb is 55w by itself while a single engaged brake light bulb is burning 21w. All the LED lights you could slap onto a Rivian are still only burning as much power combined as a 1995 Camry sitting at a stop light at night. It adds up but it's still a drop in the bucket compared to to the amount of power needed to move the car. Don't forget these things have two entire laptop computers slapped to the dashboard running every moment the car is on yet they don't seem to make much effort toward dimming those screens or using dark mode to conserve power.

My biggest issue with EVs off-road is that they're using electronic traction control in place of mechanically locking the motors. I think that's a bad idea. I think they should keep mechanical diffs and lockers in there somehow. The motor controls will simply never be as immediate or as strong as a block of steel. They spin wheels far too much which is wasteful in general.

 

[Keef]

At the Stellantis Dealer Business Meeting 2023, they showcased in person the future Jeeps that were previewed earlier as seen above

Stellantis Shows Dealers Its Future Portfolio In Las Vegas

Stellantis, the multinational automaker created by the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Peugeot S.A., held its first dealer meeting in Las Vegas at the MGM Grand. The event, called the Stellantis Dealer Business Meeting 2023, showcased Stellantis' future plans as the industry moves...

moparinsiders.com

Somehow I scrolled right past this post. That Wagoneer EV is what my aerodynamicist buddy up in Auburn Hills has been designing for the past three years. It's pretty. You're going to notice a lot of companies copying that grille opening (Chrysler already loves it across the board) and the huge spoiler opening in the rear, especially when brands want to keep SUV appearances. The Wagoneer actually has a rakish kammback shape behind what is effectively a wing mounted on pillars.

In Wrangler news, the Rubicon now has an enhancement called Rubicon X which comes with 35-inch tires to match the Bronco's Sasquatch Package and/or the Wildtrak trim. Notable however is that the Bronco's Sasquatch Package can be applied to any trim level whereas Rubicon X is the newest top-level trim comparable to the Bronco Wildtrak (which included the Sasquatch Package).

They've also removed the door frame from the rear door, making it look like a safari truck, and the Rubicon can be had with the 4xE drivetrain.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Alfa Romeo to rebadge the Jeep Avenger for their own EV called the Brennero

Alfa Romeo's first EV to arrive next year as Jeep Avenger twin | Autocar

Crossover, tipped to be called Brennero, targets new market segments and will be Alfa's smallest car

www.autocar.co.uk

Alfa Romeo’s first electric car will be launched next year as a Jeep Avenger-twinned compact crossover that aims to give the Italian brand a foothold in one of the most fiercely contested emerging segments of the market.

Originally tipped to be called the Brennero, the new car will spearhead Alfa Romeo’s goal of attracting new buyers to the marque, especially families and females, as it looks to move away from being seen as just a “sporty brand” favoured by middle-aged men.

The compact crossover will arrive in June next year. It is expected to use the new STLA Small platform and, like the Avenger, it will offer a range of up to 250 miles.

The model will also be available with a mild-hybrid petrol engine. It’s not yet confirmed if this petrol option will be limited to overseas markets, as is the case with the technically related Avenger. Either way, the Alfa crossover will be offered as a solely electric model when the brand goes EV-only from 2027.

 

[Sharpie]

It's massive.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Wagoneer S, Fall 2024

600 horsepower and a 0-60 time of "around" 3.5 seconds.

 

[Keef]

Wagoneer S, Fall 2024





View attachment 1320584 View attachment 1320585

A good friend of mine designed this in the wind tunnel. Pretty sick.

 

[Keef]

Jeep's intention was to maintain brand identity by keeping the silhouette SUV-like by hiding the fastback/kammback behind butresses and a wing. Wagon shapes are always going to suffer in terms of aero efficiency so since most customers at this level don't necessarily use any more cargo space than they'd need in a sedan, Jeep went ahead and followed the trend of fastback rooflines so the sake of efficiency.

Pretty sure by buddy told me that they had experimented with an open grille like the Charger concept but decided against it. I'm not sure if that's because it compromised cargo space up front or what. You can still see vestiges of that experiment in the grille design.

 

[Joey D]

It looks like the rear window would get super dirty with that design, so not having a rear wiper is certainly a choice.

 

[Keef]

It looks like the rear window would get super dirty with that design, so not having a rear wiper is certainly a choice.

The opposite. Vertical rear windows need wipers because the low pressure area behind the vehicle causes circulation that makes road spray swirl around and stick to the window. The whole point of fastback designs like this is to maintain airflow over the window while moving so water will keep streaming down the window. The spoiler on the tailgate at the base of the window is where airflow will separate from the car, protecting the window from spray.

 

[Hayden]

Jeep's intention was to maintain brand identity by keeping the silhouette SUV-like by hiding the fastback/kammback behind butresses and a wing.

That’s the best interpretation of the “Coupe-like” SUV rear that I’ve seen. Pretending it’s not there is the best thing for it.

Wagon shapes are always going to suffer in terms of aero efficiency so since most customers at this level don't necessarily use any more cargo space than they'd need in a sedan, Jeep went ahead and followed the trend of fastback rooflines so the sake of efficiency.

I was curious on the genuine improvement, on an efficiency basis that the shape change creates. AMG does the GLE63 in the C (“Coupe”) and V (Wagon) variants, which is a pretty fair comparison. Both use the same 450KW, 4L Turbo V8. Data from carsales*

“Coupe” - Wagon / Measurement
2525kg - 2621kg / Tare Mass
1790L - 2010L / Boot space max
9.8L - 9.4L / Highway L per 100km
17.5L - 17.4L / City L per 100km
12.6L - 12.4L / Combined L per 100km

I wasn’t expecting the “Coupe” to be much better, but I definitely wasn’t expecting the heavier wagon to get better fuel consumption. It may be down to environmental differences on test day and it’s only one data point, but it shows that there’s not a massive real-world difference between the two shapes.

Knowing that drag increases at the square of speed, I feel like the “coupe” would comprehensively win a test at 200KPH. In all honesty though, real people’s cars just don’t do that type of speed.

I’d be interested to see some more comparison data, but on aesthetics and cargo volume alone, I’d much prefer the traditional wagon in this sector.

Coupe- https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/de...&gtssaleid=OAG-AD-22503966&pageSource=details

Wagon- https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/de...&gtssaleid=OAG-AD-22368965&pageSource=details