Kanye West for President of the United States!

[Raine]

Asians are known to be way harder workers than other demographics and to work longer hours. In these statistical cases it's the work ethic and attitude that influences not the color of the skin. The BLS is not specifying overtime hours as reasons for overall higher income. Asians are more likely to accept frequent overtime(look at Japan) so we have to consider weekly earnings from OT into the mean as well.

@UKMikey

I'm not black but I'll take Thomas's claims seriously because his points make sense and represent what I've personally encountered in my life. I believe you encountered racism but not lawful systemic racism just racism at an individualistic level. Which can be the case for all races.

I also asked "Are you White" to black people online when they insisted that all white people are more privileged.. including me. They never lived my life and can't tell me my life experiences are invalid. As a matter of fact I've had two jobs where Hispanics and Blacks got raises and promotions before me when I worked at the place longer. In my experience white cismale privilege doesn't exist. In this world though the words and experiences of someone like me will never be taken seriously because I'm white and i was supposedly born with a golden spoon in my mouth hahaha.

 

[UKMikey]

Asians are known to be way harder workers than other demographics and to work longer hours. In these statistical cases it's the work ethic and attitude that influences not the color of the skin. The BLS is not specifying overtime hours as reasons for overall higher income. Asians are more likely to accept frequent overtime(look at Japan) so we have to consider weekly earnings from OT into the mean as well.

Is there any evidence that the US Bureau Of Labor Statistics are not considering weekly earnings from OT? Are you suggesting that the black people in the graph are working shorter hours?

 

[Raine]

Is there any evidence that the US Bureau Of Labor Statistics are not considering weekly earnings from OT? Are you suggesting that the black people in the graph are working shorter hours?

No evidence because that information wouldn't be considered vital information I guess. Real authentic proof would be digital photographs of each workers paycheck stubs next to the worker with all information and details. But that's a privacy violation so will never happen.

 

[UKMikey]

No evidence because that information wouldn't be considered vital information I guess. Real authentic proof would be digital photographs of each workers paycheck stubs next to the worker with all information and details. But that's a privacy violation so will never happen.

I see.

 

[Raine]

I see.

Since the only way to prove the wage gap wrong or right would be having physical access to personal employment information and income information the real truth will remain shrouded. So the misleading vague numbers the BLS provides will further perpetuate the white male privilege myth. The sad reality of the world.

In any case blacks have decent lives in first world nations. Rich black people in North African territories still keep poorer Africans as slaves and beat them. Sometimes even employed workers don't even get payed their wages by the powerful rich Africans. Blacks kill blacks in their own neighborhoods in the USA more than white kill blacks.

I'm not even racist either just stating facts.

 

[Biggles]

Since the only way to prove the wage gap wrong or right would be having physical access to personal employment information and income information the real truth will remain shrouded. So the misleading vague numbers the BLS provides will further perpetuate the white male privilege myth. The sad reality of the world.

In any case blacks have decent lives in first world nations. Rich black people in North African territories still keep poorer Africans as slaves and beat them. Sometimes even employed workers don't even get payed their wages by the powerful rich Africans. Blacks kill blacks in their own neighborhoods in the USA more than white kill blacks.

I'm not even racist either just stating facts.

Thanks for sharing those "facts". Blacks in first world nations DO have decent lives. They should stop complaining & think themselves fortunate that they're not in Africa being beaten by "the powerful rich Africans". Nothing racist about that.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Asians are known to be way harder workers than other demographics and to work longer hours. In these statistical cases it's the work ethic and attitude that influences not the color of the skin. The BLS is not specifying overtime hours as reasons for overall higher income. Asians are more likely to accept frequent overtime(look at Japan) so we have to consider weekly earnings from OT into the mean as well.

I've seen people try to make this comparison many times, and it's just not a fair comparison. You can't just compare the average Black man and Asian man and infer that the reason why the Asian man does so much better off (statistically proven to be the wealthiest and most productive race) is simply because of work ethic. Most Asian immigrants who come to the US (mostly Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Pakistani) come here already upper middle class, and stay upper middle class. It's simply not feasible, if you're a poor family living so far away, to make it to the United States. The small amount of Asians who do come to this country as refugees (mostly Vietnamese and Cambodian) make far less money than the aforementioned Asian groups do, with incomes similar to Black Americans. Generally, the Chinese, Korean, Indian, and Pakistani move here for better educational opportunities; they'll start out buying/setting up a business, and with that money, they send their children to university, and oftentimes, they go down the path of STEM, medicine, or research, all high-paying jobs. Even non-Asian immigrants who come to the US, such as Russians, Greeks, Israelis, Arabs, and Nigerians, come here already well off and are on average higher-income than the typical American. Black Americans, on the other hand, still face the harrowing aftermath of chattel slavery, segregation, redlining, and lack of constitutional rights, all of which strip them of their wealth and opportunity to build wealth.

The problem with your argument, that there is such a wide income gap between Black and Asian workers due to work ethic, is flawed, and can immediately be proven so once the question why is begged. Why is it that Black Americans just don't have a good work ethic compared to Asians? Is it just some strange coincidence? Or do they just have naturally smaller skulls? You see, this can go down a very slippery slope here. My point is, this income gap has to do with generation wealth more than anything.

Real authentic proof would be digital photographs of each workers paycheck stubs next to the worker with all information and details.

You seem to have a very misguided perception about how statistics are gathered.

In any case blacks have decent lives in first world nations. Rich black people in North African territories still keep poorer Africans as slaves and beat them. Sometimes even employed workers don't even get payed their wages by the powerful rich Africans. Blacks kill blacks in their own neighborhoods in the USA more than white kill blacks.

I'm not even racist either just stating facts.

Yes, Black Americans do have better quality of living on average than Black Africans and Caribbeans, but does that mean we just ignore the fact they are still oppressed to a certain degree and aren't doing as well as other races in the US, let alone Black Canadians and Black Europeans?

I find it offensive how you pretend to care about the poor Africans in Africa who are exploited by the capitalist class just for the sake of winning an internet argument.

And again, yes, no one is going to deny the prevalence of Black-on-Black violence in the US. But again, the question of why must be asked. Do you even care why that is so? I could list of the factors which cause crime but I feel like I'd be talking to a wall at this point.

"I'm not racist I'm just stating facts". Eh, not so fast. If you just state these facts just to suggest that Black people are inferior to other races and do not care about the causes of these pitfalls, and actual solutions, then chances are there's a racist intent behind that.

 

[Sage Ages]

I've yet to meet a person who says "I'm not racist" and have anything of good-will to come out of their mouth.



Back to the subject at hand, I don't expect Kanye to have any measurable impact on the upcoming elections, but the mans needs to get some help. He's been in this manic spiral for years now.

 

[UKMikey]

"I'm a white man who is not racist but I think you as a black man should listen to this other black man because he knows more than you about your own experiences due to his extensive education.

"Black people don't face any disadvantages in Western societies because I got passed over for pay rises a couple of times, so my personal experiences apply to you and every other black person I ever meet because I know more than you about your personal situation and you're wrong to say otherwise."

Sounds like it'd make a catchy slogan if Sowell ever needs a campaign manager to run for office or desires a place in Ye's cabinet. No, really.

 

[TenEightyOne]

View attachment 939351

As well as being a good local reference this also functions as a real-time roadmap for KW's entire presidency planning.

 

[WFO Krypto]

Yes, Black Americans do have better quality of living on average than Black Africans and Caribbeans, but does that mean we just ignore the fact they are still oppressed to a certain degree and aren't doing as well as other races in the US

Have you ever thought there might be some blame to put on themselves as well for being oppressed?

1) What company wants to hire someone for a management position that has a gold grill in their mouth?
2) How about dressing and presenting yourself a little better. Having your paints hanging half way down your butt isn't so appealing to most.
3) How about not swearing every other word when you speak? Ebonic slang is not a sign of intelligence, nor is it acceptable.
4) Do you think that blacks like having that intimidation factor when they are around whites? I think a lot of them do.

Obama is black correct? Do you think he ever walked around like a street thug. He worked for where he got. He did it the right way. Nobody gave it to him. I am far from an Obama supporter, but respect the man for what he did to get where he is today. Why is that some blacks can thrive, and some can not? Are we supposed to just change our whole society so that black street thug mentality is socially acceptable?

If you act like a thug, talk like a thug, dress like a thug, you are going to be treated like a thug. White or black it doesn't matter.

 

[ryzno]

I'm surprised y'all have missed this gem!
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/ka...n-after-wakanda-government-from-black-panther

 

[UKMikey]

Are we supposed to just change our whole society so that black street thug mentality is socially acceptable?

This is like strawman of the thread. It's not like they only polled street thugs or that they represent a majority of African-Americans any more than the majority of white people polled were hayseed chewing country yokels but hey, let's blame the victim because it makes me feel better about it.

Shaking my head.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Have you ever thought there might be some blame to put on themselves as well for being oppressed?

1) What company wants to hire someone for a management position that has a gold grill in their mouth?
2) How about dressing and presenting yourself a little better. Having your paints hanging half way down your butt isn't so appealing to most.
3) How about not swearing every other word when you speak? Ebonic slang is not a sign of intelligence, nor is it acceptable.
4) Do you think that blacks like having that intimidation factor when they are around whites? I think a lot of them do.

Obama is black correct? Do you think he ever walked around like a street thug. He worked for where he got. He did it the right way. Nobody gave it to him. I am far from an Obama supporter, but respect the man for what he did to get where he is today. Why is that some blacks can thrive, and some can not? Are we supposed to just change our whole society so that black street thug mentality is socially acceptable?

If you act like a thug, talk like a thug, dress like a thug, you are going to be treated like a thug. White or black it doesn't matter.

I live in a mostly low-income city with a substantial Black population, and I rarely ever see them sagging their pants nor having gold teeth. This is just another stereotype that is not true for at least 95% of the population. I'm guessing you have very limited experience with Black Americans then? It's like saying that white folks all have mullets and meth-mouth. Far from the truth.

It's not "ebonics", it's called African American Vernacular English (AAVE), and it's not slang either. Just like the Brooklyn accent, Boston accent, Appalachian accent, etc, it is a unique dialect that is spoken by a specific group of people. AAVE has it's roots from blending traditional English with African, Creole, and Gullah languages, and says nothing about one's supposed intelligence. And swearing every time they speak? Ok, thanks for confirming you've never had a meaningful interaction with a Black person and have based your opinion of them on overused, racist stereotypes.

Your fourth point is so far from the truth that I am left speechless. As in, I honestly have no idea what you're getting at.

You're not wrong when you say that people who talk, act, and dress like thugs will likely be denied many jobs. But you are very wrong when you assert that this is typical Black behavior.

 

[WFO Krypto]

This is like strawman of the thread. It's not like they only polled street thugs or that they represent a majority of African-Americans any more than the majority of white people polled were hayseed chewing country yokels but hey, let's blame the victim because it makes me feel better about it.

Shaking my head.

Who makes the most "noise" in the black community? Street thugs, gangster rappers, street gangs, sports stars. Maybe if we stop idolizing people like Snoop Dog, 50 Cent, etc etc and start promoting more black people like Obama, Condilisa (sp?) Rice then peoples perception will change?

 

[Joey D]

3) How about not swearing every other word when you speak? Ebonic slang is not a sign of intelligence, nor is it acceptable.

Ebonics is a real thing and it's even recognized as its own language: American Black English. It's not any more or less valid than how Americans talk in the deep south or in the North East. Or, hell, have you ever been to Lousiana? I worked with a consultant from Baton Rouge, most of the time I didn't have any idea what he was saying. Dude was insanely smart though so we just conversed via IM to make it easier.

Your language or accent doesn't make you any more or less intelligent.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Who makes the most "noise" in the black community? Street thugs, gangster rappers, street gangs, sports stars. Maybe if we stop idolizing people like Snoop Dog, 50 Cent, etc etc and start promoting more black people like Obama, Condilisa (sp?) Rice then peoples perception will change?

You realize that logic could be applied to any race, right? It's just like saying that white supremacists, school shooters, and meth heads make the most "noise" in the white community. Yet the difference is, you would be offended if someone made that assertion about Whites, but when people do the same about Blacks, you don't care and find it acceptable. Which is implicitly racist.

Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent, etc, are idolized for their musical abilities, not for whatever drugs they do and crimes they commit (if they've even been arrested before). And since when were Black political figures like Obama and Condoleeza Rice not idolized? As far as I know, they're generally favored by the Black community.

 

[WFO Krypto]

You realize that logic could be applied to any race, right? It's just like saying that white supremacists, school shooters, and meth heads make the most "noise" in the white community. Yet the difference is, you would be offended if someone made that assertion about Whites, but when people do the same about Blacks, you don't care and find it acceptable. Which is implicitly racist.

Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent, etc, are idolized for their musical abilities, not for whatever drugs they do and crimes they commit (if they've even been arrested before). And since when were Black political figures like Obama and Condoleeza Rice not idolized? As far as I know, they're generally favored by the Black community.

I completely agree with you. Meth heads, school shooters, skin heads make a lot of "noise". I am deep and truly embarrassed by them.

Let me share a statement I made a few weeks back with someone..........

I am a big, bald, overweight, white guy. I have never been accused of being a skinhead. You know why? Because I don't dress like one, I don't talk like one, and I don't act like one. You are perceived by others based on YOU.

 

[GranTurNismo]

I completely agree with you. Meth heads, school shooters, skin heads make a lot of "noise". I am deep and truly embarrassed by them.

Let me share a statement I made a few weeks back with someone..........

I am a big, bald, overweight, white guy. I have never been accused of being a skinhead. You know why? Because I don't dress like one, I don't talk like one, and I don't act like one. You are perceived by others based on YOU.

And most Black Americans, even young urban Black men, don't dressed as what you call "thuggish", sagging their pants, having gold teeth, and wearing durags. Your point?

 

[UKMikey]

I completely agree with you. Meth heads, school shooters, skin heads make a lot of "noise". I am deep and truly embarrassed by them.

Let me share a statement I made a few weeks back with someone..........

I am a big, bald, overweight, white guy. I have never been accused of being a skinhead. You know why? Because I don't dress like one, I don't talk like one, and I don't act like one. You are perceived by others based on YOU.

None of which appears to affect white people in a way that stops them earning more than black people. Unless you're trying to argue that African-Americans are generally lazier or slacker about their appearance or speech and that this limits their earning potential?

 

[WFO Krypto]

None of which appears to affect white people in a way that stops them earning more than black people. Unless you're trying to argue that African-Americans are generally lazier or slacker about their appearance or speech and that this limits their earning potential?

Let me ask you this question.

If a white person and a black person, have the exact same education and experience, and have the exact same job and job performance, do you think the white person makes more money?

 

[Sage Ages]

Have you ever thought there might be some blame to put on themselves as well for being oppressed?

1) What company wants to hire someone for a management position that has a gold grill in their mouth?
2) How about dressing and presenting yourself a little better. Having your paints hanging half way down your butt isn't so appealing to most.
3) How about not swearing every other word when you speak? Ebonic slang is not a sign of intelligence, nor is it acceptable.
4) Do you think that blacks like having that intimidation factor when they are around whites? I think a lot of them do.

Have you like... actually met a black person in your life?

 

[UKMikey]

Let me ask you this question.

If a white person and a black person, have the exact same education and experience, and have the exact same job and job performance, do you think the white person makes more money?

Based on what? Because the only data I have is the graph and based on that, then on average the answer is yes. Not sure why you think this is 50 Cent's fault though.

 

[MaxAttack]

Oh hey, it's the racism thread!

Wait a minute!

Came here to refer to earlier posts about Kanye's musical prowess - I see it touted a lot that MBDTF is a masterpiece. I really only put his reputation down to the fact that he produces his own beats, that's the only reason he ever stood out to me, and personally, I don't particularly vibe with his sounds when it comes to instrumentation or lyrics.

Even amongst other musicians in the same genre, who also have the standout point of doing their own production, I don't think he holds a candle to the likes of MF Doom, or even the UK's Wiley.

This is all beside the point that Frank Zappa wrote songs about STDs, in which the composition makes Kanye look like a toddler banging on a Casio keyboard.

The only thing that's ever stood out about Kanye is his staggering egotism and vanity, and it's kind of abhorrent what the general public will sink to in reinforcing his delusional view of being an "influential and visionary artist". Even while he is still actively producing his music, I really don't hear much influence from him in other artists of the scene. Popular hip hop has moved a completely different direction from the elements Kanye brought in at his peak.

But hey, maybe he will make a better president than a musician, who knows?

Crucify me now.

 

[UKMikey]

It's not just the general public. Polls like Pazz and Jop represent specialist music critics. It's definitely not my thing but it seems to resonate with a lot of people.

 

[Imari]

You are perceived by others based on YOU.

Sure. I'm sure nobody has ever been stereotyped based on someone else's experiences or misunderstandings, and everyone has always only been judged fairly on their own true selves. If there's anything that humans are great at it's not jumping to conclusions and being judgmental of others, or inserting their own biases and beliefs onto others be it groups or individuals.

Here, I found a perfect example from this very thread.

1) What company wants to hire someone for a management position that has a gold grill in their mouth?
2) How about dressing and presenting yourself a little better. Having your paints hanging half way down your butt isn't so appealing to most.
3) How about not swearing every other word when you speak? Ebonic slang is not a sign of intelligence, nor is it acceptable.
4) Do you think that blacks like having that intimidation factor when they are around whites? I think a lot of them do.

Let's generalise people with a certain skin colour, and then assert that people are judged based on who they are. That'll be a big brain move.

 

[MaxAttack]

It's not just the general public. Polls like Pazz and Jop represent specialist music critics. It's definitely not my thing but it seems to resonate with a lot of people.

I'm absolutely supportive of people listening and vibing to whatever floats their boat, and having already referenced him once, I won't pull up THAT Zappa quote about music criticism.

But popularity alone does not a visionary make, and with time and the dwindling of his personality cult/media circus, I feel pretty safe saying his music will sink into the category of "mid 2000s hip hop okayness" where, to be honest, it belongs.

I applaud the man, in a sense, for being so insistent that he's a genius that people actually started to buy it, but I think anyone imagining his music has the staying power of the "visionary" artists of the 20th century - I won't write a list, for subjectivity's sake - are in for some unpleasant news before the decade is done.

Unless he wins the presidency somehow. Probably good for sales.

 

[TexRex]

...is the pledge of allegiance to a logo mandatory, or optional?

It's complicated when it really shouldn't be, as the Supreme Court ruled in 1943, in West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnett, that a student in public school may not be compelled to recite the pledge.

In actuality, it's optional except when it's not. A number of states, including Texas, require parental permission prior to a student's dissent and punishment for violation may still be carried out even after permission has been granted for dissent that occurred prior. Of course, the parental permission requirement is just a backdoor to infringement of rights granted by the First Amendment citing parents' interest in their child's education.

I'm not aware the constitutionality (rather the lack thereof) of mandatory pledge participation has been addressed by the Supreme Court since 1943, though the words "under God" have, as cases don't make it that far. Even a recent case in which a Houston student sued over having been expelled for failing to participate without parental permission and for supposedly being singled out because of the color of her skin, to the best of my recollection, was settled out of court despite the TXAG coming out to support the action of the school.

Proponents of the pledge in schools maintain that it fosters respect for the flag, but I'd argue that respect should be earned rather than fostered, and free exercise of the rights that the flag represents is far more respectful than standing when you're told to stand and saying things you're told to say.

I am a big, bald, overweight, white guy. I have never been accused of being a skinhead. You know why? Because I don't dress like one, I don't talk like one, and I don't act like one. You are perceived by others based on YOU.

[*sing-songy*] Irony.

The skinhead subculture arose in the UK in the late 1960s, with disaffected youth expressing pride for their working class station, opposition to religious conservatism of the previous decade, advocacy for cultural unity and fondness for the reggae, ska and 2 tone music genres. It would evolve in the late '70s with the popularity of punk music and the fashion associated with it. Extremist factions would ultimately split the group as it was represented in the UK but it survived elsewhere. Groups like SHARP (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice) exist to revive the subculture as it once existed and to oppose fascism and neo-Nazism, while actively pushing out extremist elements who oppose those with acts of violence (think Antifa) because such extremism taints the message.

I find it interesting that you would assert that people should be judged by their actions rather than their appearance after having judged people by their appearance and even simultaneously as you associate bad actors with those who are not bad actors simply because they may look similar.

I have a very good friend, a man I have known nearly 30 years and whom I love dearly, who attracts a lot of attention because of his appearance. He's well over six feet tall, has a shaved head and is covered in tattoos. But to speak with him is to understand that literally none of that matters. He's soft-spoken, well-spoken (I haven't met an individual who wields the English language more deftly than he) and kind, and goes out of his way to help complete strangers.

 

[UKMikey]

I'm absolutely supportive of people listening and vibing to whatever floats their boat, and having already referenced him once, I won't pull up THAT Zappa quote about music criticism.

But popularity alone does not a visionary make, and with time and the dwindling of his personality cult/media circus, I feel pretty safe saying his music will sink into the category of "mid 2000s hip hop okayness" where, to be honest, it belongs.

I applaud the man, in a sense, for being so insistent that he's a genius that people actually started to buy it, but I think anyone imagining his music has the staying power of the "visionary" artists of the 20th century - I won't write a list, for subjectivity's sake - are in for some unpleasant news before the decade is done.

Unless he wins the presidency somehow. Probably good for sales.

For all your talk of subjectivism it sounds like you're asserting that there's an absolute standard of good and bad in music and that you're equating your own taste with this standard.

Those same critics who awarded Ye all those top album awards voted Bob Dylan as number two. Did he buy them off as well? As for staying power, it's difficult to predict but I suspect nostalgia has as much to do with it as anything else. There's no accounting for people's musical taste.

 

[Joey D]

While Kayne isn't the best rapper of all time, I still maintain the idea that he is a genius. He's consistently been in the spotlight for nearly 20 years which is a pretty big feat, especially with rappers. Pretty much everyone who pays attention to the world of entertainment can name one of Kanye's antics too, even if it happens years and years ago (VMAs for example). Marrying Kim K also boosted this too because, whether people like it or not, the Kardashians are a huge brand thanks to mom-Jenner (Kris maybe?).

While part of me thinks Kayne really does want to run for president, it's probably more along the lines of just keeping his name out there. He's probably working on a new album and this is part of the hype for it. It'll probably come out around election time and be called something like "President of Heaven" or something equally Kayne-esque.

With all that said, I really do miss the old Kanye. The College Dropout, Late Registration, and Graduation are some of my favorite albums. I started becoming less of a fan of his music after My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. Weirdly, I didn't hate Jesus is King or Jesus is Born despite both being gospel albums. I mean I didn't buy them, but they were good enough to listen to on Spotify.