Killzone 2

[vr6wantsr20det]

I am still a bit turned off by the run/gun frag-fests KZ2 online has been like. I just don't understand the appeal prefectly stated above about people jamming into the bottle-neck confrontation points and just grenade and blind firing at each other. I do agree some of the maps are not big enough or meant for 32 players. With that many people in a small area its just bound to be chaos.

But i am going to go back and play through on ELITE now, still have some Helghast symbols to find as well, i believe i have all but 1 or 2 Intel. But missing a few of the Helghast symbols.

 

[Mad Matt]

I've only had the game a day, despite Play claiming to have posted it on the 25th :-(

I haven't tried on-line yet, but I'm not too surprised by these comments. It reminds me of football when you get a lot of people who haven't played for a while. All you see is 98% of the players running after the ball and not holding positions. Now with footie it improves as people calm down and begin to see that holding position pays off.

Let's hope it's the same here :-)

On another note,I think I preferred the controls as they were on the demo.

 

[FoolKiller]

I am still a bit turned off by the run/gun frag-fests KZ2 online has been like. I just don't understand the appeal prefectly stated above about people jamming into the bottle-neck confrontation points and just grenade and blind firing at each other. I do agree some of the maps are not big enough or meant for 32 players. With that many people in a small area its just bound to be chaos.

This is why I don't enjoy multiplayer in shooters much. Most people will act like an idiot. What reason do they have to not go on suicide missions like this? Heck, you maybe have one bronze trophy for winning an online match without dying and then they are back to being idiots. There is no incentive to fear dying when you can respawn with a loss to nothing more than your KDR.

In single player death means at least going back to your last checkpoint. It holds you up and makes you suffer. You have to redo what you just did, which is annoying. And with better AI you can't even just memorize enemy positions and finally get it right the third time around.

Someone needs to fix multiplayer shooters to avoid this kamakazi attack -> die -> respawn -> repeat mentality. When I play shooters I attempt to use caution, stay covered even if I don't have a cover system, and not die. But when I do die I find myself rushing right back to where I died to kill the guy that killed me. I shouldn't, but I do.

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

Very good point, in the frag-fest games the only people holding back are the ones worried about stats/ranks. I don't care for the stats/ranks but for the game-play experience. The run/gun is fun for a few minute but gets old quickly. Different strokes for different folks you know? i don't blame people who have fun and enjoy the run/gun style but i feel like i'm starting to grow out of that. I'm not old yet, but i'm getting there .

 

[GT4 genius]

Quick question; is there an off-line split screen mode to this game?

I've googled, didn't get a definite answer, but from what I read there appears to be no split-screen but it may be available as add-on content in the future.


Yes I know I've just quoted myself!

 

[Zathra5_]

I doubt split screen will be added later. I think that it would be too hard to program. Multiplayer coop might be added.

I was hoping that these shooters would be more tactical if you were playing as part of a clan. I'd really like a game with missions like counterstrike but a pace more like Rogue Spear (Rainbow Six). Socom sounds like it might fit the bill but I don't think that I could get away with spending $40 on it. I still need to get some sort of stand for my G25.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Glad to see I'm not the only one. I haven't played it for several days and I don't think I plan to.

I would plan online for the Clan, but I don't think that's going to happen soon.

There's only one map I like that stops, for the most part but not completely, the 'bottle-neck run and gun frag fest' experience and that's the Pyrrus (sp) map. Plus, that's a sniper's dream map.

I still need to unlock the zoom feature of my sniper rifle, so I'm still interested in playing with you guys. Just let me know when so I can clear some time to do so.

 

[magburner]

Judging by the comments posted above, I'm glad I never brought this game now!

GG should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Why change the way a game plays so drastically, and so soon after launch? It is becoming quite clear that the four years taken to create this game were spent almost entirely on the graphics, and little time was spent on how the game actually played.

This also begs questions about the purpose and quality of the beta testers. What the hell were they doing!? Didn't anyone flag up these problems? Were GG even interested in player input?

KZ2 has basically sold its soul, just to get bums on seats, and so soon after launch too...

Someone needs to fix multiplayer shooters to avoid this kamakazi attack -> die -> respawn -> repeat mentality. When I play shooters I attempt to use caution, stay covered even if I don't have a cover system, and not die. But when I do die I find myself rushing right back to where I died to kill the guy that killed me. I shouldn't, but I do.

This is why I was asking if there was a hardcore mode. Not because I wanted KZ2 to be like COD4, but because it changes the dynamics of the challenge.

Hardcore mode was not invented on COD4, though it has gained wide acceptance through that game. My personal experiences of Hardcore mode come from playing America's Army (which was hardcore from the get go). The principles from AA still hold true in COD4 even though they are two entirely different games.

It's too easy to run around with a little map in the corner telling you were the bad guys are, its even worse still when you get a 'retardcam' showing you where they are! Aim assist, endless respawns, and laughable bullet damage are the tools of an amatuer, who understands little about tactics, and is only concerned about their kill/death ratio.

 

[Scaff]

Judging by the comments posted above, I'm glad I never brought this game now!

GG should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Why change the way a game plays so drastically, and so soon after launch? It is becoming quite clear that the four years taken to create this game were spent almost entirely on the graphics, and little time was spent on how the game actually played.

I have to share my annoyance at the changes made to the controls via the last patch.

KZ2 has a lot going for it, but these changes have not helped at all.

This also begs questions about the purpose and quality of the beta testers. What the hell were they doing!? Didn't anyone flag up these problems? Were GG even interested in player input?

As part of both the closed and open beta I'm having to be careful about how I reply here.

Just about everyone I came across in the betas (which were purely on-line) were very professional and provided a lot of good feedback.

However every beta match I took part in was played at a much more tactical level, something the old control system part forced on you. As a result none of the 'charge-into-room-hip-firing-like-a-loon' worked, as all that happened was you got cut down without a single kill.

The old controls forced a measured approach on players by making run-and-gun a pointless tactic, that has now changed and as a result the attitude of many playing has too.

Those who played in the first week or so of release I'm sure would agree that it was a very different situation and tactical play won the day in almost all situations.

KZ2 has basically sold its soul, just to get bums on seats, and so soon after launch too...

Once again I agree.

This is why I was asking if there was a hardcore mode. Not because I wanted KZ2 to be like COD4, but because it changes the dynamics of the challenge.

Hardcore mode was not invented on COD4, though it has gained wide acceptance through that game. My personal experiences of Hardcore mode come from playing America's Army (which was hardcore from the get go). The principles from AA still hold true in COD4 even though they are two entirely different games.

KZ2 doesn't have a hardcore mode and originally didn't need one.

It's too easy to run around with a little map in the corner telling you were the bad guys are, its even worse still when you get a 'retardcam' showing you where they are! Aim assist, endless respawns, and laughable bullet damage are the tools of an amatuer, who understands little about tactics, and is only concerned about their kill/death ratio.

KZ2 originally didn't have aim assist (and the new glitch is shocking and certainly wasn't present on the Beta) and doesn't have a kill-cam.

I'm still not done with KZ2, and hope that once the initial frenzy of non-tactical buyers have moved onto the next big thing that some of the game-play that made the beta's and the first week of launch so good can be re-captured.


However if GG don't sort the auto-aim and controls out then a PX from me may be the order of the day.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Giancarlo]

Am i the only one who's not that upset with the patch? I mean i've had my share of a few more bad games, but i've really decided that caring about my k/d ratio is silly, and am just having fun with it.

I dunno.

 

[Flerbizky]

Am i the only one who's not that upset with the patch? I mean i've had my share of a few more bad games, but i've really decided that caring about my k/d ratio is silly, and am just having fun with it.

I dunno.

I'm still, slowly, working my way through SP, but the 1.20 patch definitely improved controls - I'm very happy with it :-)

Love the game btw... IMHO, it contains nothing but Epic Win..

 

[Mad Matt]

I don't like the patch (perhaps I can re-install with the network unplugged?) in terms of the controller. I liked the slightly slower more weighted feel and the impact it had on tactics with the older version.

I appreciate that others feel differently.

Still a good game in single player mode though.

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

I don't like the patch (perhaps I can re-install with the network unplugged?) in terms of the controller. I liked the slightly slower more weighted feel and the impact it had on tactics with the older version.

I appreciate that others feel differently.

Still a good game in single player mode though.

I actually like the new controls a bit better myself, but the online morale has definately dropped. I really enjoy the campaign mode.

As for this "aim-assist" is it programmed into the game mechanics? or is it a setting (i haven't looked, wouldn't use it if it's an option).

 

[Scaff]

I actually like the new controls a bit better myself, but the online morale has definately dropped. I really enjoy the campaign mode.

As for this "aim-assist" is it programmed into the game mechanics? or is it a setting (i haven't looked, wouldn't use it if it's an option).

The aim assist is a lot like the 'snap-to' you get in COD on single player, however even COD made sure it didn't get into the on-line side of things.

Quite frankly its totally ruined the on-line side of the game for me, I mean what exactly is the point of playing if someone can take you out from the other side of the map with zero skill.

Its encouraged a style of play that is just appalling, people run around, flick the zoom button and fire, and it results in a perfect hit every time.

This....





...does not make for a tactical on-line experience, nor does it make me want to play.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Giancarlo]

Oh, that's bad. Is that an exploit or is it just goofing with the game's auto-aim? I've noticed it a little online, but never thought of abusing it.

P.S., is the Helghast gun more accurate?

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

/\/\/\ WOW!?!?!?! I had no idea it was like that. A lot of the time in close quarters i don't zoom, i just hip fire but in burst shots, because spray-n-pray gets you nowhere. That is disturbing but also makes sense as to why i would be getting taken out so easily, especially from distances. And from a distance using Zoom my aim still wasn't that accurate? Either way i can't believe they would implement something like that. Whats the point if it does all the work for you?

 

[Scaff]

Glitch or exploit I really don't care, all I can say its that I have been on the receiving end of it a few times on-line now and its use has totally changed the game.

If they patch it soon then great, as KZ2 is great on-line when played from a tactical point of view, but as the videos above show, currently any Muppet can take you out from the other side of the map with no skill at all.

I don't mind someone popping me when I know its done with skill, but this is quite frankly just cheap.


Regards

Scaff

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I did not realise that auto aim was even in the game. No wonder I seem to get killed easily. People just running around killing on the run. Ever Likley

 

[Moglet]

This appears to be what was happening to me online, people were just running about like nutters killing me from a mile off or getting stupidly precise hits. They seriously need to patch it.

 

[Hereward]

Yeah its why I stoped playing as I said in an earlier post and one of the reasons the games become a run and gun halo fest, ah well SOCOM tommorow, back to creeping and no respawns LOL Hopefuly it'll get patched and slowed down a little plus the bots turned back on then I'll be back.

 

[Scaff]

Yeah its why I stoped playing as I said in an earlier post and one of the reasons the games become a run and gun halo fest, ah well SOCOM tommorow, back to creeping and no respawns LOL Hopefuly it'll get patched and slowed down a little plus the bots turned back on then I'll be back.

Got my copy of SOCOM in the post today, so will be giving it a go later tonight once the TV is free.

The official headset is lovely as well, much better than the Jabra one that came with Warhawk.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Hereward]

Rub it in Scaff, I'm getting my copy tomorow (as usual, release day) been slopeing round the UK SOOM forum for the past week, quite a few already have it (US version) and quite alot have got there EU versions over the past few days, what stands out is theres no complaints, no "this must be patched NOW" comments, just a bunch of happy gamers trying to gleen info of each other about best load outs and map tactics......sounds great, give us a "first impresion" on the SOCOM thread matey just to rub it in a bit more and to whet my apertite a bit more LOL

 

[Giancarlo]

If you like tactical gameplay, Socom is definitely where it's at. But i just can't get over the graphics. Everything feels small, if that makes any sense.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I did not realize that auto aim was even in the game. No wonder I seem to get killed easily. People just running around killing on the run. Ever Likley

I still don't think there is an 'auto-aim' feature.

I read a while ago these 'cheaters' are pressing L1 quickly as possible to do it. I've tried it and it only swings the weapon for a mêlée attack. So, I also read it's L1 and R1, but when I tried that, it didn't work like what I've seen in the videos. It makes little sense to me.

All I know, it's a 'cheat' or exploit of some kind and it needs to stop. In addition, it's hard enough to play this game online when it takes me forever to lock on a target with the Sniper Rifle on account how stupid-horrible the controls are. I just wish every game had controls as fluid and precise as the MGS series. I never have a problem sniping in that game.

 

[Pako]

How's the online play? With baby in hand this week, plans of finishing the campaign mode has been thwarted. Maybe next week....

 

[Solid Lifters]

How's the online play? With baby in hand this week, plans of finishing the campaign mode has been thwarted. Maybe next week....

Overall, it's bad. You can find decent games, but the cheat is killing the fun. Good games are far too difficult to find.

I don't really care that much for it, anymore. I'm about completely done with it. However, I still want to obtain my Sniper Rifle scope zoom perk, which I still need 4 games of 10 kills each with the SR.

In fact, I'm playing online RIGHT NOW, yet I'm making this post should tell you something.

 

[ceiling_fan]

I still don't think there is an 'auto-aim' feature.

I read a while ago these 'cheaters' are pressing L1 quickly as possible to do it. I've tried it and it only swings the weapon for a mêlée attack. So, I also read it's L1 and R1, but when I tried that, it didn't work like what I've seen in the videos. It makes little sense to me.

They're likely using the Alternate 2 control scheme with Zoom hold checked. This, other than the default controls is surely the most common button config because it's as close as you can get to Call of Duty.

Since everybody is kind of bitching about not having custom button configs, what would you use if you could?

All I know, it's a 'cheat' or exploit of some kind and it needs to stop. In addition, it's hard enough to play this game online when it takes me forever to lock on a target with the Sniper Rifle on account how stupid-horrible the controls are. I just wish every game had controls as fluid and precise as the MGS series. I never have a problem sniping in that game.

The turn-acceleration is pretty frustrating, the patch helped but if someone runs at me at, say, a 60 degree angle I have a slim chance of surviving, and if I do survive it's lucky hip-fire swaying all over the place Obviously it's something I'll have to get used to, but after playing Call of Duty 4 (which the only hint of turn acceleration is the time it takes to move the stick) for five weeks it'll be a bit of a pain. This also annoyed me with Far Cry 2.

I guess a lot of my qualms with the controls are simply because of my love affair with COD4. In COD4 the amount of time between pressing the aim button and being zoomed in was very quick (virtually instantaneous for all guns except LMG's and sniper rifles) and as already mentioned, there's virtually no turn-acceleration (deadzone?...) I have no problem with KZ2 taking a more realistic approach, it's just very difficult for me (and a lot of gamers) to get used to less-responsive (but more realistic) controls.

I wouldn't mind killcams, they're more interesting than watching your dead body, but then again a medic reviving you would cancel the killcam which would be a bit awkward.

 

[Dragonistic]

Well I thought I'd stick in Killzone today to see what's what and the first 2 games I can see what you meant about the charging in large rooms but from then on I kept finding highly tactical rooms with both sides holding their own and I think the reason is simple.

Maps. What hosts seem to not establish is that a large number of players should be on a large map and not a small or narrow/small number of routes type map. If there's only 2 ways in to an objective then there's 16 players per team, 8 per way and thus 16 players fighting for one spot, 16 at another and all 32 probably right by each other. I've had great fun tonight and my faith has been restored.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Maps. What hosts seem to not establish is that a large number of players should be on a large map and not a small or narrow/small number of routes type map.

+1

A map like Blood Gracht is simply too small for 32 players. Pyrrhuse rise on the other hand, or Helghan industries, are fine with 32 players. That's also why you can find more tactical play in smaller rooms. People who want to escape the mayhem and want a more tactical game play in those.

I played a lot of Battlefield 2 back when it was popular and it featured maps with no less than 64 players. Since the maps were huge, and had vehicles in them, it was very fun to play. Even the smallest (16 player) maps in Battlefield 2 were bigger than Blood Gracht BTW. The maps also scaled up for bigger games. So there would be three different variants of each map: 16 players, 32 players, or 64 players. It's a system that works really well.

Here's an example of a scalable map in Battlefield 2 (Strike at Karkand, a very popular map)

This is the 64 player version of Strike at Karkand (just look at how huge it is):

Now this is the same map, at a different scale, which is used when you start a 16 player game:

 

[Dragonistic]

Personally I hope more large maps are added because I like, and here's the good part due to the name of the online, to feel like I am in some sort of warzone if that is where the game is set. If I was playing say Socom, I don't mind being in small teams because it's fitting, but on a game like Killzone (or indeed Battlefield) I like a large scale combat spanning over a large map. Pyrrhuse Rise (if you spelt it right as I sure as hell don't know how to!) is being the star of the show for me, particularly last night, as advances have to be co-ordinated even if it's by intuition rather then communication.

Last night it was working for both teams, I didn't notice alot of headsets in the lobby yet everytime I found myself the last man standing on one of the advances on the bridges, I would take cover and sure enough in a matter of seconds team-mates would be advancing behind me to my aid and would often retreat back if necessary after saving my bacon. However if I was on the friendly side of the bridge they generally sat back taking shots at snipers covering the area before a full scale advance would take place. This is all well and good but this appeared to be happening across the map. There were 2 main fronts at each flank and a series of small firefights developing in the centre. When an objective popped up, both teams did everything they could to help complete (and not actually go for the glory themselves). During the 2 assasinations, 2 search and destroys, a body count and a control points (whatever it's called) I saw some incredible team contributions from both sides, with control points and body count being the decider as the teams defensive strategies were just so difficult to be broken.

It's a joy to see a team-mate become the assasination target whilst on the enemy side of the bridge to turn around, and run back through an advancing 7 or 8 soldiers there purely to get his ass out of there and there was no Helghan breaking that line as a medic was present (me ! ) and 8 rifles firing at you is generally enough to make you think twice about popping out of cover. Best of all was it carried through on the other maps as well, although the maps weren't all perfect for 32 players, the majority of players still played the team game and it was fantastic to see.

Just talking about it has made me want to go play it again later today