KY Confirms GT6 In Development Already
- Thread starter Robin
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brainfade
(Banned)
- 573
- BANNED :D
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Part of me doesn't think that's true, because, we dont know if they did push PS3 to it's absolute limit or not and look at what Rockstar just revealed: their GTA V trailer done using the PS3 graphics, in my view it seems that developers are only now unlocking the full capability of the console and the only thing really limiting them is the primitive RAM. Also, GT5 was rushed/fast-tracked to release.
Que the trolls writing essays demanding proof and flashing the AUP as always.
- 1,409
- mileret
Livery editor is probably just another sub-app that can be read into memory and flushed when the art work on the car is saved. It doesn't need to share valuable memory when racing, guys. This is just the feature that Kaz doesn't feel as important as the others and maybe it was omitted because of terms and deadlines.
Graphically I am almost sure that GT5 is squeezing much from PS3 and therefore we could only see marginal improvement in graphical quality. In fact, I'm very impressed what they managed with so weak graphical system. If they just waited another few months with PS3 release it could have graphical subsystem like 8800GT which is comfortably capable to render all GT5 graphics in real Full HD instead of resampled and jaggy 1280x1080 resolution, quality shadows, better tracks, more cars etc.
Now there are available graphical subsystems that are many, many times better, I just can't even imagine what photorealistic marvel would PD do with them in PS4. Fully antialiased FullHD with buttersmooth shadows and 60 fps all the time, no tearing, over 100 cars on a track in GT5 dealership showcase quality, live enviroment around magically detailed tracks full of people, animals, trees waving in the wind before storm, heat haze mirroring when car is shot with long telephoto angles, textures that haven't any pixelation even in detail, pieces of hot gum flying off fenders during burnouts...
We won't see any better show on PS3 anymore but we could see better GAME if the minds of Polyphony team open themselves a bit and do so necessary step into future.
Graphically I am almost sure that GT5 is squeezing much from PS3 and therefore we could only see marginal improvement in graphical quality. In fact, I'm very impressed what they managed with so weak graphical system. If they just waited another few months with PS3 release it could have graphical subsystem like 8800GT which is comfortably capable to render all GT5 graphics in real Full HD instead of resampled and jaggy 1280x1080 resolution, quality shadows, better tracks, more cars etc.
Now there are available graphical subsystems that are many, many times better, I just can't even imagine what photorealistic marvel would PD do with them in PS4. Fully antialiased FullHD with buttersmooth shadows and 60 fps all the time, no tearing, over 100 cars on a track in GT5 dealership showcase quality, live enviroment around magically detailed tracks full of people, animals, trees waving in the wind before storm, heat haze mirroring when car is shot with long telephoto angles, textures that haven't any pixelation even in detail, pieces of hot gum flying off fenders during burnouts...
We won't see any better show on PS3 anymore but we could see better GAME if the minds of Polyphony team open themselves a bit and do so necessary step into future.
brainfade
(Banned)
- 573
- BANNED :D
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They should try do the livery editor in the same way which WipEout Pulse did: allowing people to export the skin template via the game's sub-website ( www.wipeout-game.com which has been taken down due to an error spotted by the original developer, Rob Fox, who had left Studio Liverpool, he sent them the fix but they took no action), allowing them to download the skin-template of the vehicle, import it into photoshop and then upload it into the game via the website.
Oh, and for those of your pedantic members who anally insist on 'proof' whether or not it is legal or illegal, please refer to Colin Berry at Sony Studio Liverpool.
Oh, and for those of your pedantic members who anally insist on 'proof' whether or not it is legal or illegal, please refer to Colin Berry at Sony Studio Liverpool.
GTA is a completely different type of game to Gran Turismo, you shouldn't assume that because one game can do something, the other can. There are many reasons why GTA looks different, both PD and Rockstar have very different priorities as to what they use the available processing power for.
As for whether we know GT5 was pushing the hardware as hard as possible? Well when you combine the incredibly high native resolution with how detailed a lot of the tracks and cars are (16 of them at once) with a physics engine that will be doing a ridiculous amount of calculations per second, and then notice how the strain of all of this (combined with things like weather etc) causes the framerate to dip and the occasional screentear and yeah, it's obvious they're pushing the hardware to its limit.
The PS3 cannot really handle what PD set out to do with the game at all. I mean it very obviously copes and the game is certainly fully playable, but from a technical standpoint I get the impression that PD had to work very hard to get the game running at a playable framerate while looking as great as it does. By all accounts in fact, I'd say it's a technical marvel (along with games such as Wipeout HD, God of War 3, Uncharted series etc) but it does seem that PD had to scale back a little with their intended vision for the game.
I'm just excited to see how great the game would be if they got the engine running on PS4 hardware, bumped the res up to 1080p (fully), locked the framerate at 60fps, had a really good AA solution and smooth shadows combined with perfect smoke effects. Imagine the improvements to weather also, for example the wet tarmac on SSR7 (likely only available on SSR7 due to the track not having complex geometry and freeing up some of the video memory) being available on all tracks under rain conditions? They could also perhaps use the additional power to setup a dynamic weather and time of day system that is universal for all tracks, rather than the current solution which is handled on a track-by-track basis by basically having a second version of the track.
- 2,012
at this point gt6 must have every standard car upgraded to premium status, in order to compete with forza4 (forza5 by its release date, dirt4 and need for speed 25).
It also must have all the content that was made for gt5 and that somehow isn't in the game (mainly tracks), current cars and some general upgrades such as the livery editor, movie maker, finally getting rid of hidden assists with the DS3 or with ABS on, etc.
can PD do that in 2-3 years (late 2012-2013)? I sincerely don't think so, or at least without rushing the game again.
when did he say that? was it before or after the spec 2 update?
Black interiors hint that PD is working on improving standard cars.
that won't happen. Current PCs already run games better than how the next gen consoles will, and they aren't there yet for a number of reasons.
It mostly has to do with decision making since there are tradeoffs. Do I want the game to run at 1080p or do I prefer it to run at 720p with increased filters, should it feature 24 cars races or just 16 with better car rendering, and so on.
There can't be a "perfect" running game on a console. It just can't happen, besides upgrading the console on the run somehow.
The other main reason is plain man power. If EA doesn't have enough employees to focus on doing all those things, PD certainly can't.
Because of this community-made content is a big edge that PC sim racing has against console games. For example, rfactor truly isn't the same game without it, and this also shows the significance of adding a livery editor.
It also must have all the content that was made for gt5 and that somehow isn't in the game (mainly tracks), current cars and some general upgrades such as the livery editor, movie maker, finally getting rid of hidden assists with the DS3 or with ABS on, etc.
can PD do that in 2-3 years (late 2012-2013)? I sincerely don't think so, or at least without rushing the game again.
when did he say that? was it before or after the spec 2 update?
Black interiors hint that PD is working on improving standard cars.
that won't happen. Current PCs already run games better than how the next gen consoles will, and they aren't there yet for a number of reasons.
It mostly has to do with decision making since there are tradeoffs. Do I want the game to run at 1080p or do I prefer it to run at 720p with increased filters, should it feature 24 cars races or just 16 with better car rendering, and so on.
There can't be a "perfect" running game on a console. It just can't happen, besides upgrading the console on the run somehow.
The other main reason is plain man power. If EA doesn't have enough employees to focus on doing all those things, PD certainly can't.
Because of this community-made content is a big edge that PC sim racing has against console games. For example, rfactor truly isn't the same game without it, and this also shows the significance of adding a livery editor.
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- 2,012
unreleased content list
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6229306#post6229306
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6229306#post6229306
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
Not long after the release of gt5 Kaz stated (cant find the interview now) it would be easier to add new cars then make standard cars premium. This was while he still said no dlc. Why it would be easier I have no clue but thats what he stated. As for the new cockpit view, I think they always had them just not used. Kaz stated he wasnt sure he wanted to use them when he did. I also dont think they ran out of time to do all premiums I think it was always the plan. They had to know it would take them years to do 1000+ premium cars. Not that the game wasnt rushed (or rather ran out of time) and things suffered but I dont think that the cars where part of that. Of course just my opinion on the matter. Its been stated many times they take 6 months to do a car, times 1000 is a looong time or alot of people.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
A few more thoughts on this, and then some racing before running off to get speaker parts and veneer.
While most of us loved Prologue, a portion of us hated the graphic issues, primarily the dodgy shadows, though some also complained about slowdown with a few cars and particle effects going, and some screen tearing on occasion. A few oddballs also griped about jaggie edges. A quick point on AA at native resolution: all it ends up doing is making edges look fuzzy, I'd rather have none at 1080p. Anyway, most of us were confident that GT5 would have those problems tweaked out. Especially as long as it took to release.
And it did take a while. They had to have been polishing up the game engine for as much as six years. And yet there is still slowdown, screen tearing, the shadows are still bad, and now the particle effects cause hideous jaggies around the outlines of objects.
This is a mature game engine, not one that's just a year or two old. It's at least four, and I'm thinking six-plus. So between a slightly better looking Prologue and GT5, the game engine has been forced to work harder at something. My culprits are 3D, weather and time of day changes. Even though they aren't used all the time - most of us never use 3D because we have standard HDTVs, they're still part of the game engine. I'd throw in slightly better physics and A.I. too, as well as the wimpy damage build we have now. But at the same time, Prologue had 16 car fields which were nothing but Premiums on Premium tracks, and GT5 races are littered with much more basic Standard cars, often running around Standard tracks. So something is a big burden on the engine, and I suspect it's my list of... suspects, because they weren't there before.
If GT6 doesn't look any better, it's going to get a pounding on that, and I don't think there's any chance Kaz would release it like that. And I can't see how PD can pull off anything substantial on PS3 without jumping through a hoop or two, or several. Obviously we want GT6 to do more, right? Better shadows, little or no screen tearing, no oogly particle issues, weather and time of day transitions on all tracks, better physics and A.I., a Livery Editor, better Course Maker, better Photo Mode... clearly we don't just want GT5 with the Standard cars and tracks yanked out and a hundred or so new cars and a few new tracks added in. But then, you have the matter of all Premium content now, and a substantial amount of increased graphic workload for the PS3 to deal with. And then there's all that other stuff.
So where is this magical jump in performance going to come from? Everything a gaming computer has to do is a balancing act, especially on the ram-gimped PS3. If you want more objects and better physics, well then graphics will suffer. You want a prettier game, then you have to trim back the poly count, physics, A.I. Something has to give. So... what?
You can look at my cheat sheet list for possibilities - and no damage would sure make the critics happy... not. But something has to give way so that GT6 can be a better overall game.
And guys, look, no matter what system GT6 ends up on, someone will be disappointed. Many of us want the thing ASAP, which means out on the system that's out now. But it looks like at least as many of us want our doors blown off, which will require a more powerful system, and we're content to wait on that. I'd love to play around with a Movie Maker and upload my awesome - or hilarious - performance on the track to YouTube. Well, on PS3, that's just not possible, not enough ram says Kazunori. That's hardly a deal breaker for most people, but what else would have to be left off? Everything? Now that would suck.
Yes, relatively. I doubt that more than a few hundred thousand or so would turn up their noses at a GT6 which just had a few new goodies. I'd buy it, I said I would, and most likely love it. But, I'm not sure I'd like it.
For the sake of the cars which get left off, GT5 is still plenty great and I could race that. But suppose a Livery Editor gets left off yet again. Every time I mod up a car, I groan about not being able to slap some vinyls, decals, racing plaque and number, a flag and my name over the door, to create MY racecar. If Race Mod just turns a certain number of cars into true racing machines, and we only get those preset liveries like GT2 had, that would sting. Not having a way better Course Maker would smart. Having inaccurate, selective performance mods once again would be uncool. Anything would hurt. Would it hurt sales? Oh... probably very little. But it would be sad that once again, Forza would have a couple of major things over Gran Turismo, and I'd be aching for the years to pass and GT7 to hopefully, FINALLY be the GT I was hoping for.
I'd much rather that game be GT6, which would be here years sooner.
I know some of you think GT5 is one step up from Mario Kart. But how would a weaksauce slightly improved GT6 be any better? And again, to be drastically better, what would you be willing to sacrifice? For in order for something to be given, something must be given up.
And I wouldn't count out the value of the upcoming DLC. I don't recall any thread with the title, "This DLC blows." If there is one, it dropped like a rock from disinterest. For the most part, I see enthusiastic acceptance. You might as well admit that a bunch of GT fans are addicted to the thing, and keep coming back for more. Heck, a bunch of us were playing GT4 while waiting for GT5 to ship. Some still are, from time to time, as well as the earlier games, which I'm going to peek at myself one of these days.
You can argue that the cost of DLC is stupid, that over four years you'd end up paying $360 for all of it. Well, you do that twice as fast in Forza, and it hasn't really mattered to most people.
Just a little more perspective on the matter. As in all things GT, whatever happens, happens.
This is part of the cold war. You might as well ask what Kaz is planning for GT6, or what the specs are going to be on the next Playstation and XBox. Ninjas are guarding these secrets. Well... in the case of MS, probably robots. Which they didn't build.
Only a very few people would agree with you. I know it's baffling to you guys who wonder what we see in GT5, but I guess it's some kind of affliction. I love my affliction.
This is obviously an assumption, but it's based on solid evidence.
While most of us loved Prologue, a portion of us hated the graphic issues, primarily the dodgy shadows, though some also complained about slowdown with a few cars and particle effects going, and some screen tearing on occasion. A few oddballs also griped about jaggie edges. A quick point on AA at native resolution: all it ends up doing is making edges look fuzzy, I'd rather have none at 1080p. Anyway, most of us were confident that GT5 would have those problems tweaked out. Especially as long as it took to release.
And it did take a while. They had to have been polishing up the game engine for as much as six years. And yet there is still slowdown, screen tearing, the shadows are still bad, and now the particle effects cause hideous jaggies around the outlines of objects.
This is a mature game engine, not one that's just a year or two old. It's at least four, and I'm thinking six-plus. So between a slightly better looking Prologue and GT5, the game engine has been forced to work harder at something. My culprits are 3D, weather and time of day changes. Even though they aren't used all the time - most of us never use 3D because we have standard HDTVs, they're still part of the game engine. I'd throw in slightly better physics and A.I. too, as well as the wimpy damage build we have now. But at the same time, Prologue had 16 car fields which were nothing but Premiums on Premium tracks, and GT5 races are littered with much more basic Standard cars, often running around Standard tracks. So something is a big burden on the engine, and I suspect it's my list of... suspects, because they weren't there before.
If GT6 doesn't look any better, it's going to get a pounding on that, and I don't think there's any chance Kaz would release it like that. And I can't see how PD can pull off anything substantial on PS3 without jumping through a hoop or two, or several. Obviously we want GT6 to do more, right? Better shadows, little or no screen tearing, no oogly particle issues, weather and time of day transitions on all tracks, better physics and A.I., a Livery Editor, better Course Maker, better Photo Mode... clearly we don't just want GT5 with the Standard cars and tracks yanked out and a hundred or so new cars and a few new tracks added in. But then, you have the matter of all Premium content now, and a substantial amount of increased graphic workload for the PS3 to deal with. And then there's all that other stuff.
So where is this magical jump in performance going to come from? Everything a gaming computer has to do is a balancing act, especially on the ram-gimped PS3. If you want more objects and better physics, well then graphics will suffer. You want a prettier game, then you have to trim back the poly count, physics, A.I. Something has to give. So... what?
You can look at my cheat sheet list for possibilities - and no damage would sure make the critics happy... not. But something has to give way so that GT6 can be a better overall game.
And guys, look, no matter what system GT6 ends up on, someone will be disappointed. Many of us want the thing ASAP, which means out on the system that's out now. But it looks like at least as many of us want our doors blown off, which will require a more powerful system, and we're content to wait on that. I'd love to play around with a Movie Maker and upload my awesome - or hilarious - performance on the track to YouTube. Well, on PS3, that's just not possible, not enough ram says Kazunori. That's hardly a deal breaker for most people, but what else would have to be left off? Everything? Now that would suck.
Yes, relatively. I doubt that more than a few hundred thousand or so would turn up their noses at a GT6 which just had a few new goodies. I'd buy it, I said I would, and most likely love it. But, I'm not sure I'd like it.
For the sake of the cars which get left off, GT5 is still plenty great and I could race that. But suppose a Livery Editor gets left off yet again. Every time I mod up a car, I groan about not being able to slap some vinyls, decals, racing plaque and number, a flag and my name over the door, to create MY racecar. If Race Mod just turns a certain number of cars into true racing machines, and we only get those preset liveries like GT2 had, that would sting. Not having a way better Course Maker would smart. Having inaccurate, selective performance mods once again would be uncool. Anything would hurt. Would it hurt sales? Oh... probably very little. But it would be sad that once again, Forza would have a couple of major things over Gran Turismo, and I'd be aching for the years to pass and GT7 to hopefully, FINALLY be the GT I was hoping for.
I'd much rather that game be GT6, which would be here years sooner.
I know some of you think GT5 is one step up from Mario Kart. But how would a weaksauce slightly improved GT6 be any better? And again, to be drastically better, what would you be willing to sacrifice? For in order for something to be given, something must be given up.
And I wouldn't count out the value of the upcoming DLC. I don't recall any thread with the title, "This DLC blows." If there is one, it dropped like a rock from disinterest. For the most part, I see enthusiastic acceptance. You might as well admit that a bunch of GT fans are addicted to the thing, and keep coming back for more. Heck, a bunch of us were playing GT4 while waiting for GT5 to ship. Some still are, from time to time, as well as the earlier games, which I'm going to peek at myself one of these days.
You can argue that the cost of DLC is stupid, that over four years you'd end up paying $360 for all of it. Well, you do that twice as fast in Forza, and it hasn't really mattered to most people.
Just a little more perspective on the matter. As in all things GT, whatever happens, happens.
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All this tells me is that you've been ignoring basically everyone who disagrees with you for the past 10 pages.
Other than the near-universal acceptance of Spa, I haven't seen more than a handful of people express anything more than casual disinterest towards it at best; but more frequently just a platform to make "clever" Skyline jokes about.
I don't see the relevance in this. In fact, it seems like a really cheap diversionary tactic on your part.
May I suggest a backhoe rather than the shovel you are using?
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Sony seem to be rushing out games fast the past year or so. All of their recent games save for afew are not polished to the usual standard at their launches. More importantly there is little major exclusive games in the pipeline for PS3.
I think a PS4 is on the way. An unveiling next year is likely. Infact many are saying the hardware has already been roughly decided.
Will GT6 be on PS3? there is a chance we could get a quick release next year. Or a Spec 3. There are no real set rules or patterns to these things. With PS2 many took their time but I think Sony might want to be quicker this time.
I think a PS4 is on the way. An unveiling next year is likely. Infact many are saying the hardware has already been roughly decided.
Will GT6 be on PS3? there is a chance we could get a quick release next year. Or a Spec 3. There are no real set rules or patterns to these things. With PS2 many took their time but I think Sony might want to be quicker this time.
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- NotSoSilent
No Sony isn't rushing out games, just about every game is a sequel so they don't have to build a game engine for it but tweak/optimize the game engine to run smoother. The Killzone2 engine was modified for KZ3, Uncharted-U2-U3 all use the same engine just with adjustments to them. It is the later side of the hardware cycle games will come out faster but that doesn't mean new hardware is on the way.
Where would you be getting your info about finalized hardware? All that is out there is rumors, and these have been out there since the first year the Ps3 was on the market. Back when the PS2 was out the internet wasn't a major player(Until Xbox) and thus developers HAD to take time making the games/bug hunting. Look at what happen with the the last Tomb raider game on WII, there is a bug at the end of the game where if it happens a bridge doesn't drop and you are stuck. There was no way to fix that on the WII due to Eidos not testing thoroughly.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
If you say so. What I see is a point by point argument laid out by myself, and people who disagree going, "Nuh-uh." All this tells me is that you like to argue for the sake of it.
So, you guys who say that GT5 can be loaded up with nothing but Premium cars running around Premium tracks, which is what we'd all expect in GT6, with 16 car fields, no graphical penalties, nothing but improvement across the board...
Tell me how this will happen on the same PS3 system. I'm teachable. Explain. I'm all eyes.
But if it isn't possible, something obviously has to give. Premium-only content means a massive increase of polygons and higher res textures. Better weather effects, particles and shaders mean a much busier, and probably hotter running RSX and Cell. So what gets cut to allow for the processor overhead? Maximum of 12 car fields? No damage at all? No 3D, unless it's an optional install?
If it is possible, why does GT5 have issues which Prologue doesn't, when the game engine is more mature?
And I'm not saying that just making GT6 from GT5 with more events and better online features, with a super Event Generator system would be dumb. But I don't see the point, when you could patch that into GT5.
Now, if you guys mean that we're going to have content of sub-Premium levels, or cut back weather effects, or no Livery Editor, or basically the same thing as GT5 just with more events and a better online system, then spell that out. Have the courage, as I did, to lay out your points, with some kind of logic to back it up. This is what dialog is all about.
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
Tenacious D, I think the continued argument about the assumed features of both GT6 and PS4 are the aspects that continue to irritate me into posting a response.
We're not here to discuss what GT6 will change because we don't know. We're not here to discuss what the PS4 will bring to the series because we don't know. So for you to continue to bring up all the possible negatives using assumed facts continues to show that you simply want PD and Sony to do what you want them to do. I (and others) are arguing with what we think will actually happen, basing our arguments off of quotes and assumed logic instead. Because the simple question here is "Will GT6 be out on the PS4, because GT6 has been confirmed by Kaz to be in development?" Now that I see it, I'm wondering if this whole debate shouldn't be in the GT6 on PS4? thread.
Therefor it will be hard to "teach" you since all you want to hear is "graphics this" and "graphics that"(at least that's all I assume you want to hear given that all of your posts degenerate into slamming the PS3's graphical capabilities). You continue to talk about the graphics improvements with GT6 and you even mentioned earlier that they could fix GT5's graphics, so you obviously believe it's possible. And if it's possible to fix GT5's graphics, then it makes sense to be able to apply the same fixes towards a GT6 instead, since the game will run smoother from the start instead of them trying to patch things down onto GT5.
You mention how hot and competitive the console market is, and then you post this article which mentions how Sony treats the console wars as a marathon and not a sprint. The article goes on to mention how the PS3's strong features allowed it to be within only a few million of the X360's sales, despite it being released almost a year after it and it's original price ringing around $600USD. So obviously Sony isn't entirely phased with releasing their console next to the Xbox (although I'm sure they wouldn't mind a closer release date).
But the best part is that the article finishes off by mentioning Sony's 10 year life cycle plan for the PS3, which is a year longer than what Kaz Hirai was quoting to want in another article I posted earlier. 10 years would put the PS3 at 2014 at the earliest. And I will reiterate that knowing the console release schedule, and with the motions that PD has taken in reassuring us that GT6 would not take as long to release and the repetitive amounts of times that Yamauchi-san has said that GT6 is in development (since before even GT5 was released!!!!) leads me to strongly believe that GT6 will be out on the PS3 as a last hurrah for the system and to help Sony and it's retailers clear out the PS3 stock to make room (and money) for the PS4. Because if it's to be believed that the PS4 is a 2014/2015 release (based on multiple sources), then that makes Yamauchi-san a liar and will only help to tar reputation for PD has a long-release gamer. I don't think customers or Sony will be very happy with their one of their biggest franchises continuing to sit around and linger while potential console and game revenue passes them by.
I want the same graphical improvements you want. I want the awesomeness of the PS4 that will undoubtedly bring the Gran Turismo dream further into reality. I want all the things you want. But I think that these will appear for GT7. GT6 seems like it has every reason to release on the PS3 and I will not be surprised if it did. PD and Sony need to show customers that they are making product for them to buy. The premium cars, the weather and a multitude of other things are probably the only reasons that Sony let PD work on GT5 as long as they did. There might've been the understanding that "Okay, you can go spend some time THIS ONCE, but once you're done, you need to be more regular on your work schedule okay? The business is making games, your business is making art, we need to find a happy median." But we don't know that.
No more "PS4 will have X improvements." No more "GT6 will need to look better or it will fail." (Even you will buy it if the game doesn't have graphical improvements and you seem to be the harhest critic of GT on these boards.)
Also, maybe PD has earned the loyalty to not have to worry about releasing all the time, but it would be wrong for them to abuse this loyalty and leave us hanging while the spend time sitting around taking forever to make a game. Especially when it just builds expectations that they cannot meet (ala GT5).
We're not here to discuss what GT6 will change because we don't know. We're not here to discuss what the PS4 will bring to the series because we don't know. So for you to continue to bring up all the possible negatives using assumed facts continues to show that you simply want PD and Sony to do what you want them to do. I (and others) are arguing with what we think will actually happen, basing our arguments off of quotes and assumed logic instead. Because the simple question here is "Will GT6 be out on the PS4, because GT6 has been confirmed by Kaz to be in development?" Now that I see it, I'm wondering if this whole debate shouldn't be in the GT6 on PS4? thread.
Therefor it will be hard to "teach" you since all you want to hear is "graphics this" and "graphics that"(at least that's all I assume you want to hear given that all of your posts degenerate into slamming the PS3's graphical capabilities). You continue to talk about the graphics improvements with GT6 and you even mentioned earlier that they could fix GT5's graphics, so you obviously believe it's possible. And if it's possible to fix GT5's graphics, then it makes sense to be able to apply the same fixes towards a GT6 instead, since the game will run smoother from the start instead of them trying to patch things down onto GT5.
You mention how hot and competitive the console market is, and then you post this article which mentions how Sony treats the console wars as a marathon and not a sprint. The article goes on to mention how the PS3's strong features allowed it to be within only a few million of the X360's sales, despite it being released almost a year after it and it's original price ringing around $600USD. So obviously Sony isn't entirely phased with releasing their console next to the Xbox (although I'm sure they wouldn't mind a closer release date).
But the best part is that the article finishes off by mentioning Sony's 10 year life cycle plan for the PS3, which is a year longer than what Kaz Hirai was quoting to want in another article I posted earlier. 10 years would put the PS3 at 2014 at the earliest. And I will reiterate that knowing the console release schedule, and with the motions that PD has taken in reassuring us that GT6 would not take as long to release and the repetitive amounts of times that Yamauchi-san has said that GT6 is in development (since before even GT5 was released!!!!) leads me to strongly believe that GT6 will be out on the PS3 as a last hurrah for the system and to help Sony and it's retailers clear out the PS3 stock to make room (and money) for the PS4. Because if it's to be believed that the PS4 is a 2014/2015 release (based on multiple sources), then that makes Yamauchi-san a liar and will only help to tar reputation for PD has a long-release gamer. I don't think customers or Sony will be very happy with their one of their biggest franchises continuing to sit around and linger while potential console and game revenue passes them by.
I want the same graphical improvements you want. I want the awesomeness of the PS4 that will undoubtedly bring the Gran Turismo dream further into reality. I want all the things you want. But I think that these will appear for GT7. GT6 seems like it has every reason to release on the PS3 and I will not be surprised if it did. PD and Sony need to show customers that they are making product for them to buy. The premium cars, the weather and a multitude of other things are probably the only reasons that Sony let PD work on GT5 as long as they did. There might've been the understanding that "Okay, you can go spend some time THIS ONCE, but once you're done, you need to be more regular on your work schedule okay? The business is making games, your business is making art, we need to find a happy median." But we don't know that.
No more "PS4 will have X improvements." No more "GT6 will need to look better or it will fail." (Even you will buy it if the game doesn't have graphical improvements and you seem to be the harhest critic of GT on these boards.)
Also, maybe PD has earned the loyalty to not have to worry about releasing all the time, but it would be wrong for them to abuse this loyalty and leave us hanging while the spend time sitting around taking forever to make a game. Especially when it just builds expectations that they cannot meet (ala GT5).
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Except what is actually happening is that you are making a point-by-point argument which only works because you are building it off of a list of assumptions as long as your arm; and when people point out the flaws and explain why they think you are wrong you ignore them and simply repeat the same statements that you have since your first post in this thread. You just did it with that post, in fact.
- 1,806
- Belgrade
- FrancSRB
SuperCobraJet
(Banned)
- 2,472
- Virginia USA
- SuperCobraJet1
If you say so. What I see is a point by point argument laid out by myself, and people who disagree going, "Nuh-uh." All this tells me is that you like to argue for the sake of it.
So, you guys who say that GT5 can be loaded up with nothing but Premium cars running around Premium tracks, which is what we'd all expect in GT6, with 16 car fields, no graphical penalties, nothing but improvement across the board...
Tell me how this will happen on the same PS3 system. I'm teachable. Explain. I'm all eyes.
But if it isn't possible, something obviously has to give. Premium-only content means a massive increase of polygons and higher res textures. Better weather effects, particles and shaders mean a much busier, and probably hotter running RSX and Cell. So what gets cut to allow for the processor overhead? Maximum of 12 car fields? No damage at all? No 3D, unless it's an optional install?
If it is possible, why does GT5 have issues which Prologue doesn't, when the game engine is more mature?
And I'm not saying that just making GT6 from GT5 with more events and better online features, with a super Event Generator system would be dumb. But I don't see the point, when you could patch that into GT5.
Now, if you guys mean that we're going to have content of sub-Premium levels, or cut back weather effects, or no Livery Editor, or basically the same thing as GT5 just with more events and a better online system, then spell that out. Have the courage, as I did, to lay out your points, with some kind of logic to back it up. This is what dialog is all about.
You're really full of yourself today aren't ya.
You talk as if pushing more than GT5 on the PS3 will cause unlimited maladies and premature death.
My logic is simple, go back and look at what PD was able to squeeze out of the PS2 with GT4.
Truly nothing short of miraculous.
There are plenty of tricks yet to get more out of the PS3.
The question is how many has PD developed and are ready to implement.
And can they bring many of them forth before the tablet gaming system is released in 2020.
With that in mind, Its not likely you will see any grand revelations in GT6.
But who knows.
I'm guessing all premium cars and a reduced total number.
Numero uno for me is to obliterate the 🤬🤬🤬 levelup system.
Other than that it will probably be very similar to GT5.
Hopefully more events, qualifying, series championships.
Expanded wheel selection
Better tire model
some tweaking and tuning
etc.
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
No offense, but was that the only part of my post that you read? Because I don't think you'd be asking that if you did.
Anyways, "seems like" doesn't directly imply fact in this usage. At least that's why I included it. If I had a list of concrete reasons to give you that would indicate a PS3/GT6 release then I would've said "GT6 has every reason to release on the PS3" (we also wouldn't be talking about any of this). My argument is based off of me putting two and two together and making an assumption. I have shown my sources that have lead to my belief by providing articles quoting several confident sources. Tenacious D, with all due respect, has not provided a single source for me to read so that I can understand where he's making his assumptions. This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't so unrelenting and passionate about his theories, but sadly he is.
On an unrelated note, I wanted to touch on this gem:
Yet are both not good reasons to release new GT's more often? To both appease the diehards that are sitting around to play the next GT because that's all they play ( like yours truly), AND to catch the average and casual gamers that have wandered away since plenty of other games have come out since then?
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- 1,806
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- FrancSRB
Already have graphic engine and also psychic engine. So PD need to do is to upgrade it. IF they make new A-spec events (bigger) add new car's and track better car visual tuning and better price for reaching bigger level's it would be awesome game. So I can say that am 100% sure that GT6 will be on PS3.
Strittan
Premium
- 4,133
- Sweden
- Strittan
I haven't read through the whole thread, so I hope you wouldn't mind sharing a source that indicates a PS3 release again?
Just like everyone else, I have no clue when GT6 will be released, but my personal opinion is that a PS3 release is not the smartest thing to do. If it was still the 90's maybe I would have wanted a new game every second year or so, but we didn't have updates and DLC back then.
No you can't, unless Kaz himself or someone else at PD has told you so. Has he?
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
Like I said. If we had something that indicated a release for either the PS3 or PS4 we wouldn't be here debating what system it would come out on.
I believe that GT6 is going to be a PS3 release because Yamauchi-san has said that GT6 is in development. He said this back in 2010 right before GT5 was released.
Source.
He has also said that GT6 would not take as long to develop as GT5.
Source 1.
Source 2.
Source 3.
And since Hirai-san has said (way back in 2008) that the ultimate goal is to release a console after a 9-10 year PS3 Lifespan and since another Sony exec hinted that this was still the case more recently...
Source.(Hirai-san stating his ambitious goal of 150 million PS3 units and mentioning the 10-year life cycle)
Source 2.(This one talks about how the PS4's specs haven't even been finalized!!!)
Taking in all that, I come to the assumption that it would be silly for GT6 to be in development for a system who's final technical specs haven't even been finalized. And if the span from GT5 to a possible GT6 would be 5-6 years if they waited for the PS4, then it would make Yamauchi-san a liar despite assuring us that it wouldn't take as long. I think there's still more to GT5 that didn't make it in time to be released, GT6 is going to be what GT5 was originally supposed to be, before Sony said that an 8 year dev. time was a bad idea. This is my assumption.
If that's his opinion, then he has every right to be 100% sure. Besides, you miss the point that he makes about the Physics and Graphic engine work already being done and sitting around. I assume improvements or tweaks could be made to both that would preserve and improve the game, and then releasing a game when most of the work is already done would be easy profit.
Also, one of the articles above mentions an unnamed group of developers creating game concepts for the PS4. I think the next potential GT is far past the conceptual stage.
By the way, I'm not saying I'm right about any of this, but at least I'm basing my assumptions around something more solid than making things up out of the air. Until Sony or PD show tangible clues that the information provided in my sources is wrong, I see no reason to not believe that what they say is the case when it comes to their plans on releasing GT6 and the PS4.
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- WrecklessAbandon
If you say so. What I see is a point by point argument laid out by myself, and people who disagree going, "Nuh-uh." All this tells me is that you like to argue for the sake of it.
So, you guys who say that GT5 can be loaded up with nothing but Premium cars running around Premium tracks, which is what we'd all expect in GT6, with 16 car fields, no graphical penalties, nothing but improvement across the board...
Tell me how this will happen on the same PS3 system. I'm teachable. Explain. I'm all eyes.
But if it isn't possible, something obviously has to give. Premium-only content means a massive increase of polygons and higher res textures. Better weather effects, particles and shaders mean a much busier, and probably hotter running RSX and Cell. So what gets cut to allow for the processor overhead? Maximum of 12 car fields? No damage at all? No 3D, unless it's an optional install?
If it is possible, why does GT5 have issues which Prologue doesn't, when the game engine is more mature?
And I'm not saying that just making GT6 from GT5 with more events and better online features, with a super Event Generator system would be dumb. But I don't see the point, when you could patch that into GT5.
Now, if you guys mean that we're going to have content of sub-Premium levels, or cut back weather effects, or no Livery Editor, or basically the same thing as GT5 just with more events and a better online system, then spell that out. Have the courage, as I did, to lay out your points, with some kind of logic to back it up. This is what dialog is all about.
What the others said. You're assuming a lot.
Primarily, you're assuming the PS3 boundaries have been pushed. This is the first GT game, I honestly don't believe they pushed any boundaries on the system with it. How many game makers actually push system boundaries on their first full release on a system?
And since most of what I see you post is based on that assumption, to convince anyone what you are saying, you must first convince them of the assumptions you've gone ahead and made.
Keep all of the things below in-mind too.
You must be assuming this will delay the release of the first GT PS4 game, and I'd have to ask why?
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- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Yes, but in the process of explaining all this, I've realized that I've been spreading my points out across pretty large posts. And I've also been forgetting the consequences of the crucial factor that all the content of GT6 is likely going to be Premium. That means whatever system is pushing those polygons and textures around is going to have to be pushing a LOT more of them around than in GT5. Unless Kaz and the team work some compromises out.
You guys are assuming a lot too. This is a key example right here.
Except this isn't the first GT game. Prologue is. For some reason this is going completely over your heads. We were ecstatic over Prologue, because we had race fields with two and a half times as many cars as we've ever had in a GT game before. And replays that looked almost like film of real life races, good enough to fool people who didn't know they were looking at replays from a game. Even though it had ugly shadow problems and some slowdown and screen tearing, we were sure that the team would finesse those out, or mostly.
Now this did not happen. In fact, these problems worsened in GT5.
This game engine is mature. It's not new. They've been working on it for years to get to this level. Every game released four or five years into the PS2's lifespan looked pretty darn good, even if it was the first game. But at that point, improvements became increasingly rare.
I'm not saying that GT6 shouldn't be on PS3, or won't. What I am saying is that if it is, you won't have a better game than GT5 patched, unless Kaz has the team chisel out some stuff that's in the game we have and lower some specs. There is no free lunch in computing, and this isn't the third year of PS3, so you guys have to understand that the performance well has been pretty much mined by now. Not completely, but in the fifth year of a system's lifespan, you've found about all of the techniques to milk it of its performance potential. And if you go too far in trying to push the system, you start bricking consoles. PD cut back a few things in GT4 which you only caught if you happened to buy GT4 Prologue and looked closely, and it still broke a few PS2s. This happened with a few PS3s with Prologue, and then GT5, and both games are clearly pushing the system pretty hard. I made sure to buy a Slim before I played GT5 for this very reason. If you don't think PD is pushing any boundaries with these two games, think again.
I don't think very many people want Standard level content in GT6. I'm fine with leaving that in GT5. Maybe tracks, but PD already caught flack over that in GT5, so I don't expect them in GT6 either. You have to understand that this will mean a lot more work for the system when 8 cars in a 16 car field no longer have 20,000 polygons and low res textures, but 200,000-plus polys and high res textures. And then there are the tracks solely in HD.
There's that. And how many of us want to see better weather effects? I do, and I bet most of us do. Okay, that's another layer of extra work for the system to do. How about time of day transition on all tracks this time? More work.
How many of us want better shadows? Non-glitchy particle effects? No screen tearing? This requires even more processing power.
I really want a Livery Editor. This may be a big problem, depending on how PD handles it. Maybe instead of leaving our creations as hundreds of layers of stuff we pile onto the car, the system crunches on it and generates a skin. That would require no extra work, save for creating the skin. But can this be done? If not, that's another bunch of work to account for.
Take the Course Maker. Take better physics and A.I., which just about everyone wants to see. Take almost anything, and the system will have to shoulder even more than it had to with GT5. The only things that wouldn't are gameplay things, like number of events in single player, Event Generators, Online system, Season and Career Modes, better Photo Mode, a solid database and telemetry system, stuff like that. But, these are all things that can be patched into GT5 without too much trouble.
There is one thing you guys are right about, that a new GT game, no matter what it is, would garner sales, and a patched GT5 would only look like a better, while older, GT5. However, this has been done before, quite a bit actually, in online MMORPGs which get periodic expansions which keep the game fresh and players involved. Okay, that's a different field of gaming than racing you say, and that's true.
But it has been done in rFactor, and I forget how old it is, but it's still chugging along. GT5 is more popular. True, it hasn't been done in a console game yet, to my knowledge. But that doesn't mean it can't be, and if one game can break the mold, or one developer, that would be Gran Turismo and Polyphony Digital. And this of course is nothing but a possibility.
But I don't think it's that far fetched. Performance is going to have to come from somewhere just to push around 16 Premium cars at once around Premium tracks all the time. As I posted previously, sounds for non-player cars can be simplified. The game can simplify all the objects on screen in-game and in-replay. Some physics could be scripted. Damage could be yanked, as well as universal 3D. Resolution can be dropped to 720p. I'd be fine with all of these if it meant that GT6 on PS3 could be much better and have way more features than GT5. But Kaz will take heat for it if it's found out, especially after pointedly making GT5 a 1080p game, and that can't be concealed if GT6 ends up being 720p.
But something has to be done to make GT6 better than GT5. I want better physics and A.I. I want good shadows and particle effects, and very little screen tearing. I want time of day and weather on all tracks. I want a better Course Maker. I want SOME kind of liveries, and Race Mod for all the cars. I want to be able to use a Movie Maker. I want very few of the Master's dreams to be left off for GT7.
And I'm afraid the PS3 just can't deliver all that, or most of that. Definitely not the Movie Maker. I want a better GT6. Not one that's just GT5 with more events, but smaller.
- 3,585
- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
Of course we are, however our assumptions are not based off of other assumptions (at least mine mostly are not). I'm basing most of my assumptions off of statements made by Kaz and Sony executives.
Now, now. I know he meant full GT game on the PS3. Which GT5 is.
Assumptions based on assumptions, again. Your resistance to googling to find an article that says that the power on the PS3 has been tapped out for GT5 is astounding. I need proof that GT5 is using all of the PS3, solid proof, not assumptions. You assuming that GT6 will be tapped out because you assume that GT5 is using all there is to use is exactly what I mean.
So a patched game that fewer people are playing is better than a new game that everyone (who bought it) is playing and has all of the content neatly included within it? This is all based on the assumption (there's that word again) that GT5's DLC will be able to include (dis-regarding the separate argument of PD even WANTING to include or Sony even ALLOWING to include) full game-changing features that would make any sequel title look slim by comparison since they added all their other newly-developed features into GT5's DLC (again, assuming PD and Sony realize that selling these features or even giving them away for free is a good idea. Which they wont. Because it isn't).
What if, and I'm just taking a shot in the dark here but, what if the jaggie shadows and particle effects are there because of the Standard models? What if the engine is designed to accomodate both the low-res Standards and the High-res Premiums? I mean... standard stuff got added and the shadow quality did go down... This is the kind of guesses I could make until you provide me with some proof that the screen tearing is a direct result of the PS3. Because we've let you get away with your thus-far base less claims long enough. Please, this is just food for thought, if you would like to provide a reason for me being wrong, provide a link.
Assuming the PS3 has the problems it has and PD can't find a simpler and more effective way to create a livery editor.
-Assuming these things can be patched into GT5 without too much trouble.
-Assuming these things can even be patched into GT5.
-Assuming that patching these assumed patches is less difficult and will run better than simply making GT6 that has everything streamlined to run together from the start.
That second part is all you my friend! Based off of assumptions no less.
I can only think of one instance of where a video game had a separate release that contained purely add-on content and that was Halo 2 on the Xbox. The add-on content was multi-player maps only. I make this comparison because this is how most computer games receive their add-on content and expansions. But for the most part, I think this comparison holds no real merit and exists for you to try to cling to your argument (no offense).
Is it a possibility? Of course, there are infinite possibilities for GT6 (and everything in life) at this moment.
If it far fetched? Quite, given that there's probably a good and sound reason why such a thing hasn't been done on console games before, so it's much MUCH safer to assume that they won't do it, than it is that they will.
All of these are possible for GT6 on the PS3. Since they're apparently possible to be included as DLC for GT5...
Which is it? They can't be fixed or they can? And you make it sound like they are only allowed to make so many GT games until they can get it right. They'll never get it right until every car and track in the world is included with photo-realistic detail and ultra-realistic physics and environment conditions and settings. Because that's what will slowly become expected of them as they make better and better games.
More assumptions. Why would they plan a movie maker for GT5 on the PS3 platform, announce it and then remove it because it actually couldn't work on the platform? What if it can't work on any platform? Or what if it just wasn't refined enough to be included in GT5?
Tenacious D, give us (or at least me) something to work off of here in this debate. I need more than you simply telling me what can and cannot work.
Now I would like to share with you my main want, my main driving desire for having GT6 on the PS3 as well as my biggest fear of it releasing on the PS4.
I'm afraid that if PD waits for the PS4, they will become an unstoppable development monster and withdraw into themselves to make a game that will release 2-4 years after the PS4's release only to have it be another GT game that receives mediocre reviews due to it's insanely high expectations. I want GT6 to be on the PS3 so that in the event that that happens, we've at least got a much more recent product to play and we only have to wait 5-6 years (broken up by a prologue hopefully) for GT7.
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- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
No, that wasn't the point of me typing that at all. If PD could release games more frequent (not EA pace) and with great detail and not partials as we've seen with this release, that would get them back on a good path. I think more casual gamers would become fans like us, but the point was casual gamers aren't going to sit around and wait. Go on any online lobby with normal players and talk about GT5 all the gripes that we've spoken they also have. Gamers want a game but a sequal more often than five years and that was what I was trying to say. I agree with you and Toronado as well as other that a consistent game release would be great, but I think PD has stretched themselves a bit thin at times to make that reality.
