KY Confirms GT6 In Development Already

[vandaliser]

CSLAR,

you seem to just want to PD to waste a whole mainline GT game on a ps3 when we are almost nearing the end of the generation cycle. I don't know if it's just selfishness or something else. The ps3 is maxed out. There can no new stuff added to a new game that is worthwhile at this stage. It's about resources and time.

What you want is PD to make a new game on the ps3 and then start again in on a new hardware for gt7. It's just too much really. It is better to focus your time on an effort one single game and when you have a better more powerful hardware it makes it much much easier.


There is so many things that had to be cancelled from GT5 because of RAM constraints of the ps3. Giving PD a beefed up console would solve that issue. And you just keep saying 'oh i don't want to wait another five years' Well don't wait then. Go and buy something else.


GT5 issue is and was very simple. Polyphony took on so much and in so little time. Their nearest competitor (if you can call them competition ) don't even a have fifth of the features GT5 has.

After a year of support and patches you can tell that time was an issue with PD and they simply ran out of it trying to do so many things. But i won't fault them because i like and appreciate the effort they are making for their fans. Right now they are busy recruiting and building a new studio. So they now have a better idea on what and how much time a project of a new GT might need.


Everyone has to remember that as generation cycles keep going and software gets alot bigger, it also becomes alot more tasking. A car in GT1 takes a day to complete but in GT5 takes six months. So people have to keep things in check. So it's better for PD to focus all their resources and time in making the game that would give us more features and more impact and that would be a brand new game on PS4.



@dawid

The cell processor is not the issue. It's the playstation 3 RAM and GPU. They are maxed out. The cell processor in fact sometimes has to help the GPU out but that's a whole different story. Point is nothing ground breaking can be made now. You can only refine. Like uncharted 3 from uncharted 2. Going from uncharted 1 to uncharted 2 only happens once a generation and it was all because of decrease in RAM usage by the ps3 OS

similarly we had our generation leap from prologue to GT5 and while prologue may look better in some instances you have to consider the fact prologue didnt have any variable weather, damage etc

 

[DawidM]

@ united kingdom

I know, but U3 has nevertheless made a step ahead of U2 on the physics, it is instantly available on a much larger scale and better volumetric lighting. Besides, Cell does not use Direct X and it is a big plus, because developers are not restricted, they may get some new effects, tricks, although it is also a drawback, heavier programming. I regret the Sony is block one SPU all the time. Anyway, I do not expect a big jump in graphics, the more satisfied that I eliminate the drawbacks of current and former happy now. Besides, there were various codes before leaving the game GT5, which presented a visual damage is better than they are in the full version, and volumetric effects are better than in the full game and no problems with shadows. Etc. Besides, according to visual damage me are unnecessary, I developed a more mechanical damage, it is true I do not expect this level of sophistication here as Richar Burns Rally, where you could literally ruin everything (indeed is the best rally game in the world so far). However, I expanded this aspect, maybe added a puncture, etc.

Besides, there are many, many things that can be added to the next part of the GT, such as a dirty track, for example bring gravel, sand, after you go beyond the track, or such as oil spills. But I think you can get the GT to come out in the next generation. Now I just get more powerful GT5, which was the worthy continuation to GT4. I hope to return the menu map, which gave the climate, after all you can do something ala FM4 only the climate and details have PD. I miss movies like the GT5P on various routes, I'd be tempted to make better use of Top Gear's license, or you may purchase licensed Super GT, WTCC, or other classes of racing, I look forward to adding to the game of the same features at a fast race that we have available in the lobby in multiplayer. This can not be arranged DLC. So I think that is a good chance that we get on the PS3 yet GT6, the farewell of this generation. For me it would be an optimal solution because the PS4, and so did not buy earlier than one year after the premiere(2014/2015 year).

 

[AleksandarSRB]

I waited GT4 4 year's and GT5 5 year's I it will be big fail by PD if we need to wait another 4-5 year's on GT6 if they plan to put GT6 on PS4. I losing my patience and I think that PD should focus to put one new game on market in every 2-2.5 year's. So they should make GT6 for PS3 in late 2012 and then GT7 for PS4 in 2014-2015. Simple...

 

[DawidM]

No, I do not agree, such a policy affected by Turn 10, and see what came out, yes they are very good racing games, but in no way innovative, who attach no importance to detail. I am not in favor of limiting the developers, let them make the game as much as they want, it's important that game was as though a 80% invented. Besides, we forget that the games are more and more that you need to attach more importance to detail than in the days of the Amiga, PSX, PS2 and the release period was similar games. It is clear that the next part will come out sooner than part one. Therefore, GT6, if not transferred to the PS4, and I do not think that it will, it will be in my opinion in 2013.

 

[CSLACR]

I think it is more likely that they'll update GT5 for a long time to come, and release GT6 on the PS4. I see GT5 now as a testing bed for GT6 to make sure everything runs smoothly and not delayed twice like GT5, and then have to release a ton of patches before ever getting to the DLC. I think Sony and PD would rather be releasing DLC after game debut then a patch to unlock your transmission and use it in full. Also I agree with CSL to an extent here, I doubt GT6 will take 2 years and will probably be more.

And since I'm quite sure that the PS4 will be here 2013 for sure just due to chronological order of how they've (Sony) released systems in six year increments. To run a title like GT6 on an older system rather than the new seems to place Sony at a disadvantage, because people will purposely go out and obtain a PS4 if it means playing GT. However, I see why some would see GT6 on PS3 cause each sony systems has had a GT game in pairs. PS1 had GT1 and 2, PS2 had GT3 and 4, so why not PS3 with GT5 and 6. The reason I say no is, unlike the other games PD has release GT5 took the longest to make and was done so well into the life span of the PS3.

What you guys aren't mentioning or thinking of though, is that this would also restrict the sales of GT6. Have you considered the price point for the PS4? $800? $600?
If people can't afford the PS4 right away, then they can't buy GT6 right away, can they?
This would end up spreading the GT players/buyers out, meaning people would have less players to share with and enjoy the game with, and that hurts longevity.

In my humble opinion, GT6 comes out on PS3 yet. Just a few facts to associate. PS4 will come out no sooner than in the 2013/2014 year. The premiere will be one year after the successor of X360 and this has come out either late 2012 or in 2013. Another thing is this quote:

"Of course we're already working on GT6 and I think what really will be the Separating factor is something That we can not update through the DLC is something That obviously has to be saved for GT6. Things That Can Provide the DLC through the Will, so that's really the market difference. "

Clearly, you can draw from it the theory that there are a few things that patches or DLC is impossible to settle, and they must be placed on the disc. In turn, once said that the GT6 KAZ does not take as much work as GT5, as most things in the game code has already been done, now you only need to focus on expanding their, optimization, the addition of more premium cars and tracks, and perhaps a few new things. In addition, PD always did so that did not use more than 80% of the power in their first series, leaving the door open even when taking a next edition, so it was in the days of PSX and PS2 at the time, so I do not think that they have changed their point of view, the time now PS3. Also, I think that the production of the game does not take more than 2 years. So it would have coincided with the end of that generation still get the PS3 is actually a powerful GT that will make the GT4. Unless you do something like with GT5 and iRacing will add to play only the DLC, and this is what he said KAZ previously referred to the future, if in turn it is, it GT6 certainly did not come out earlier than 2015, because no GT faced the start of a new generation of consoles. Although there seems to me that this will happen, although it is obvious that if the GT6 come out yet on the PS3 is another GT for PS4 may be the last GT for which he took to KAZ, then I think that will go into retirement.

Ps. Besides, there is still a few titles that might show what the PS3 and still afford Cell processor.

Yes, every single thing Kaz has said about GT6 points to a PS3 release.
I don't know if it's the assumption that Kaz will pull another "GT5" in delay terms, or what that makes people so certain it will be released on PS4.

CSLACR,

you seem to just want to PD to waste a whole mainline GT game on a ps3 when we are almost nearing the end of the generation cycle. I don't know if it's just selfishness or something else. The ps3 is maxed out. There can no new stuff added to a new game that is worthwhile at this stage. It's about resources and time.

All based on assumptions. Every single word is based on an assumption in this paragraph, and excuse me for not having the same assumptions.
Every single thing Kaz has said about GT6 points to a PS3 release.

What you want is PD to make a new game on the ps3 and then start again in on a new hardware for gt7. It's just too much really. It is better to focus your time on an effort one single game and when you have a better more powerful hardware it makes it much much easier.

No it's not. Everything from GT5 and the theoretical GT6 can be carried straight into a PS4 game, I've no reason to believe otherwise.
Like I said and you seem to have ignored, I don't like waiting 4-6 years for a game, because they don't end up twice as good as games that take half the time.

There is so many things that had to be cancelled from GT5 because of RAM constraints of the ps3. Giving PD a beefed up console would solve that issue. And you just keep saying 'oh i don't want to wait another five years' Well don't wait then. Go and buy something else.

More assumptions. Same tired old speech. "Go buy something else".
You're clearly not thinking from a business standpoint at all.

But you're right, if it turns out indeed I would have to wait another half decade for one game to be made, I will go buy something else instead, and I'm sure I won't be the only one. As a die-hard PD fan, you should want them to be as successful as possible, but you don't seem to care at all how PD does as a company. As long as you don't have to hear anything you don't want to about GT, you're set.👍
And I'm selfish?

GT5 issue is and was very simple. Polyphony took on so much and in so little time. Their nearest competitor (if you can call them competition ) don't even a have fifth of the features GT5 has.

Oh lord, I forgot who I was talking to.
Ironic you're constantly encouraging people to switch to GT's competition, yet you're a huge fan of GT.
I particularly like the "so little time" remark, that was my favorite.

After a year of support and patches you can tell that time was an issue with PD and they simply ran out of it trying to do so many things. But i won't fault them because i like and appreciate the effort they are making for their fans. Right now they are busy recruiting and building a new studio. So they now have a better idea on what and how much time a project of a new GT might need.

Yeah, funny how 6 years pass and suddenly time smacks you upside the head like that.Read above where you said "so little time" and this becomes a real knee-slapper.

Everyone has to remember that as generation cycles keep going and software gets alot bigger, it also becomes alot more tasking. A car in GT1 takes a day to complete but in GT5 takes six months. So people have to keep things in check. So it's better for PD to focus all their resources and time in making the game that would give us more features and more impact and that would be a brand new game on PS4.

Tired of hearing that 6 month remark.

If it actually takes them 6 months to model a car, we'd only have 12 cars in GT5. Sheer stupidity.
Perhaps you should give the boys at PD some tips on shortening their process, after all, taking 6 months they still screwed a couple cars up, heaven help us, how long do these guys need?


It's ironic, because you're so full of love for PD, and try to defend them so much, yet you literally tear them to pieces with the words you use. I love irony.

 

[Tapey]

What you guys aren't mentioning or thinking of though, is that this would also restrict the sales of GT6. Have you considered the price point for the PS4? $800? $600?
If people can't afford the PS4 right away, then they can't buy GT6 right away, can they?
This would end up spreading the GT players/buyers out, meaning people would have less players to share with and enjoy the game with, and that hurts longevity.

Counterpoint: GT3 was released about 7 or 8 months after the PS2 launched and it's the best selling game in the franchise

I'd also like to point out that you make a big deal about everybody making assumptions, but that's exactly what you're doing too. You're no more correct than anybody else here, we're all just speculating. Absolutely nothing Kaz has said points to a PS3 or a PS4 release. All he's gone on record as saying is that GT6 is in development and he doesn't think it will take as long to make as GT5 did. Those quotes don't favour a PS3 release any more than they do a PS4 one.

If it actually takes them 6 months to model a car, we'd only have 12 cars in GT5. Sheer stupidity.

The only stupidity is assuming for whatever reason that they only have one person in their development team who can model cars...

Not this again. 4? GT5P is included in GT5. So that's one game. GTPSP? Carried into GT5, so that's still one game, in 2 different formats now. Oh, TT! But that's just some new bikes and track(s?) added to essentially GT4.
But when people want to paint a picture, they tend to count these as though they're all completely independent of each other, which they're clearly not.

This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say by the way. I honestly cannot tell if you're joking or are genuinely that ignorant about game development.

 

[Tenacious D]

Get ready for another term paper.

It blows my mind anyone would rather have (1) less options to end up with the same overall content in the first PS4 GT game. (probably more if they go my way though)
It's akin to asking for standards removed from GT5. Nothing else, just remove the standards.

(2)Surely making GT6 for PS3 won't really delay GT7 on PS4, would it? Everything they've done for GT5, and this GT6, if it were, could be carried into the GT7 on PS4 anyway.
I fail to understand how we "lose" anything in that scenario.

But by your words, you'd think if we get GT6 on PS3 it will somehow change something down the line, as to what I've no clue.

I'd rather not multiquote for some reason this morning.

1. I'm not sure what you mean by "less options." What I see with GT6 on PS3 is less in every way, as I've posted previously, unless PD does something drastic to rework the game. I'll get into that again in a sec.

2. Making GT6 on PS3 first would most definitely mean a delay in GT7 on PS4. SONY needs cash badly. They aren't a monopoly like Microsoft, which makes insane profits on its software, and are trying to force their way into the gaming market so they can capitalize on it and own yet another aspect of our lives, no other reason. I'm unaware of any profits reported on any Forza game, and F4 seems to have cost MS a small mint, with all the development houses contracted, as well as a Hollywood design studio this time, not to mention the licenses. And have you noticed a certain car make isn't there this time? The Porsche license is extremely expensive, something EA only lets out sparingly to other developers. This is a sign to me that either EA doesn't want Forza to step on the toes of Shift, which is possible, but more likely, that M$ dumped a truckload of cash into the making of F4, and just couldn't stomach another king's ransom on top of that. An article which has utterly vanished from the nets mentioned the possibility of Forza 4 costing as much as $120 million, which I can now see MS would kill anyone from letting slip out if true.

SONY is in a completely different situation. They actually make stuff and can't rely on a software monopoly side to sustain their gaming endeavors, and are currently running losses every year thanks to the global recession. One thing you guys forget is that Gran Turismo games continue selling for years. GT3 and 4 games are still garnering sales! Now, every year you can sell a game and not have to make a sequel, a very expensive proposition especially in the case of GT, this means pure profit. And in SONY's case, needing profit badly, they milk the franchise for everything they can get. Fortunately, GT games are made so well, they do keep selling for years, and are generally loved for years.

While this is likely true for GT5 as well, the question is how true. Every Gran Turismo has had the stigma of no damage, no online, only six car races, very basic racing rules if that, and a few other matters. While GT5 has addressed most of these well to one extent or other, it has brand new issues. The Standard cars and tracks. No interiors on Standard cars, then black frames with a generic dash. Very few A-Spec races, and a B-Spec Mode hated by some. Very few Race Mod cars, and one very basic livery. The XP system. The dorky painting system using chips. The graphic issues... you know the list. This is why you in particular think the game is pretty sucky. These are matters that concern the hardcore, longtime fans for the most part, so it remains to be seen how well GT5 will fare over the next year. Currently though, the first DLC has been a hit with the fans with more than a million downloads in the first two weeks, most likely the tracks and cars, but I can easily see why many wouldn't grab the whole thing for a few bucks more. Most fans know more DLC is coming periodically, some free, some not, so that keeps interest alive. And many of us just race for the pure pleasure of it, because it is a compelling experience.

So the question is, when will GT5 cross that boundary I mentioned in a previous post that it stops being a decent seller, and a sequel is in order? We'll see. But the minimum time between Gran Turismo releases is most likely three to four years. I'm sure that Kaz wanted to release GT4 after two years, because GT3 was a pretty small game, almost as tiny as GT1, but the amount of work and content the team put into it made that impossible. If the PS2 had the network capability of the PS3 and a universal hard drive, you can bet though that SONY would encourage PD to release DLC every so often, because we were almost as cranky over the delays of GT4 as we were of 5. And look, DLC kept Prologue alive while we waited for GT5, and it can do the same thing for it. And SONY sure won't mind if we pay for content twice, once in DLC and once in GT6. I don't really mind, as I get to experience some things earlier.

Then there's the issue of what can be done on PS3 in a GT6. I insist that GT5 is really pushing the PS3 about as far as it can go. At least with the current game engine. I think that in order to tweak it to deliver anything more, something has to be given up. The team could tear open the game engine and rework some stuff, especially if SONY can further streamline PS3's OS. They could run painstaking performance tests to see how the framerate and screen tearing can be fixed, why the particle effects are causing severe jaggies, how shaders can be improved, how weather effects can be improved, etc. They undoubtedly know what needs to be done to put weather and time of day transitions on all tracks.

But can this be done? Forget liveries, damage, weather, better physics and A.I. and other things for the moment. How can the graphics be fixed with all the game has to do now, without causing problems? The PS3 has two big performance handicaps: the ram is too small, and the Cell architecture has a bottleneck between the cores and cache and working ram that requires very careful scheduling of data shuffling in small chunks to work on. This is why direct porting to PS3 is such a pain, and games look worse if not tweaked to support the necessary intensive multithreading.

Forza 4 looks great, has up to 16 car fields now as well, and has magnificent livery tools and a great damage build. Okay, but they are cheating some things to get there. If you have it and watch a replay of non-race or supercars, you'll notice that your car is roaring along, and I mean ROARING, and tires squealing, while the other cars are tooting along making a general vacuum cleaner-level noise. The bot cars have lower detail. Not as bad as in F3, but only your car has full detail, and lesser detail than the showroom or garage. The trackside objects have increasingly less detail with distance, though done very well. There is no weather or time transition. I don't know what the native resolution is, because the scalar chip in the 360 does a great job of upscaling and applying AA but it's 720p max. T10 did a lot of squeezing to get F4 to this level of performance.

If Polyphony is going to put GT6 on PS3, they're going to have to open up the game to the core, and see how they can tweak performance further, which most likely will be extremely hard to get anything more from the Cell after four or five years of work. Or look carefully at where performance can be scavenged to apply to those graphics. But I wouldn't leave anything out. A.I will have to be better on a sequel. Physics should be better. Weather effects could stand to be better, and time transition effects, and on all tracks this time. Remember, Prologue is running 16 car fields with nothing but Premium content, and GT6 most likely won't have the luxury of having any Standard level stuff, other than possibly some tracks, to ease the workload on the PS3. Will there be room for all this, AND a proper damage implementation at least to the level of Forza 1? And custom liveries? And a better Course Maker? And other goodies?

Making GT6 from the ground up with all this included will be much better than patching. As xSNAKEx says, the patches are causing issues with a number of people, at least enough so that PD has to be careful how they release these updates, and often the patches need patches. Adding cars, tracks, races and online features are fine. But when you start messing with the game engine, improving physics, graphics and A.I., that's when things can get troublesome. But GT6 has got to be better in certain distinct ways in order to justify making it, whether it's on PS3 or 4. GT4 didn't just have almost four times as many cars and tracks. It had improved physics and graphics in many ways. It had a TON of races and other challenges. And it had a terrific Photo Mode, among other things.

Another factor is that GT6 is going to require some time to make. Yanking out all the Standard cars is going to mean a very tiny game with erratic car and track selections unless the team makes a bunch more content. Since Premium tracks take as much as two years to build, I expect some Standard tracks, though with major face lifts to make them look much better, and with weather and time of day. If SONY won't fund very many new modelers and artists, the team would have to work their butts off to have 500 cars and 50 locations ready. And if those cars can't all be race modded and liveried, I'm not going to like that. I don't want the next two Forzas to have even more goodies than we do, while we wait for GT7. And yes, GT7 will have to wait a few years for GT6 to make some profits to recoup its costs, at least three though four or more is much more likely, so GT7 probably won't happen until 2017 at the very earliest in your scenario.

While either situation can happen, I'd be much happier with a much better GT6 on PS4 in two or three years, while GT5 gets supported with more cars, tracks and races, instead of waiting till perhaps 2018 for what we really want.

By the way, I fully expect PS4 to cost $399 at the outside, and more likely $349 at launch. They aren't going to need a GPU with 5760x2160p resolution at 120fps. Or eight Cell or whatever processors. They won't need ultraviolet laser diodes for a brand new optical format. By this time, off-the-shelf electronics will be plenty cheap. And I expect SONY to produce one capable model to amortize costs better. And GT6 won't take much longer at all to build for PS4 than PS3.

 

[CSLACR]

Counterpoint: GT3 was released about 7 or 8 months after the PS2 launched and it's the best selling game in the franchise

How much did that system cost?
I had $300 for a PS2 way quicker then I had $600 for PS3.
And at that rate, $900 for PS4? That'd be a while.

I'd also like to point out that you make a big deal about everybody making assumptions, but that's exactly what you're doing too. You're no more correct than anybody else here, we're all just speculating. Absolutely nothing Kaz has said points to a PS3 or a PS4 release. All he's gone on record as saying is that GT6 is in development and he doesn't think it will take as long to make as GT5 did. Those quotes don't favour a PS3 release any more than they do a PS4 one.

Oh, ok.
Of course mine are based off quotes from the president of the company, and this little tidbit of how long they've been working on the game already. Yours are off "shelf life expectancy" as determined by you, among some other details such as "I don't think they can make a better game then GT5 on PS3".

See why I find mine better yet?

I'll not bother re-quoting what Kaz has said, it all very clearly points to a much shorter wait for GT6. Much shorter doesn't mean 4-5 years, does it?

The only stupidity is assuming for whatever reason that they only have one person in their development team who can model cars...

Tell me you agree with vandaliser, please, I'm begging you. Then I can just push the "terminate conversation" button.

This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say by the way. I honestly cannot tell if you're joking or are genuinely that ignorant about game development.

And I find your statement that "PD made 4 games between GT4 and GT5" just as laughable. Do you not agree all the content from GT5P and GTPSP got carried into GT5? Do you not agree TT was based off GT4?


I'll look over TD's post in a bit, tired of 100 paragraph quotes atm myself.

They aren't a monopoly like Microsoft, which makes insane profits on its software, and are trying to force their way into the gaming market so they can capitalize on it and own yet another aspect of our lives, no other reason.

You know, when I see you go out of your way just to bash Microsoft in this discussion, where the quoted bit here really doesn't have anything to do with the discussion, it makes me not want to bother.
Issues with Microsoft aside, seriously.

 

[Tornado]

I'm only going to touch on one thing, because you've gone back to just ignoring points when they don't suit you (and it's impossible to take a lot of it seriously anyway when you start throwing around the "monopoly" argument again to justify everything):

Yanking out all the Standard cars is going to mean a very tiny game with erratic car and track selections unless the team makes a bunch more content.

You can't seriously be using this as a correlation. GT5 has "1000" cars and dozens of tracks, and what little of a career mode there is still has idiotic car and track selections. Dozens of races on Cape Ring and Tsukuba, with other tracks completely ignored in GT Life. Races that basically amount to "chase the jackrabbit" with one or two cars that completely destroy the others, making an attempt to race fairly with the AI impossible. Races that simply made no damned sense whatsoever (Supercar race having several cars from the early 70s. Explicitly championship series that are single events only).

It clearly isn't a lack of content that caused that. It was a lack of giving a damn.

I'd also like to point out that you make a big deal about everybody making assumptions, but that's exactly what you're doing too. You're no more correct than anybody else here, we're all just speculating.

This is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say by the way. I honestly cannot tell if you're joking or are genuinely that ignorant about game development.

Considering TT was GT4 with bikes (and was out before PD started GT5 work in earnest), GTPSP was GT4 cut down and a different physics engine (and later absorbed into GT5), and GT5 was made into GT5; I think you'll have to do a bit better than that. You can certainly make the argument for GTPSP taking away from GT5 development time, but GT5? TT?

 

[CSLACR]

Yanking out all the Standard cars is going to mean a very tiny game with erratic car and track selections unless the team makes a bunch more content.

Actually, I'd like to know how removing standard cars would affect track selection at all...

By the way, I fully expect PS4 to cost $399 at the outside, and more likely $349 at launch. They aren't going to need a GPU with 5760x2160p resolution at 120fps. Or eight Cell or whatever processors. They won't need ultraviolet laser diodes for a brand new optical format. By this time, off-the-shelf electronics will be plenty cheap. And I expect SONY to produce one capable model to amortize costs better. And GT6 won't take much longer at all to build for PS4 than PS3.

Of course, this warrants a "where the hell did you pull that figure from"?

 

[Tapey]

Tell me you agree with vandaliser, please, I'm begging you. Then I can just push the "terminate conversation" button.

Who, what? I was just pointing out that you said something really dumb, that's all

And I find your statement that "PD made 4 games between GT4 and GT5" just as laughable. Do you not agree all the content from GT5P and GTPSP got carried into GT5? Do you not agree TT was based off GT4?

Oh wow you weren't joking, you actually have no idea what you're talking about

Considering TT was GT4 with bikes (and was out before PD started GT5 work in earnest), GTPSP was GT4 cut down and a different physics engine (and later absorbed into GT5), and GT5 was made into GT5; I think you'll have to do a bit better than that. You can certainly make the argument for GTPSP taking away from GT5 development time, but GT5? TT?

Considering you don't seem to have much of a grasp on the work involved with game development, you're going to have to do a lot better than that if you want to be taken seriously

 

[CSLACR]

Who, what? I was just pointing out that you said something really dumb, that's all

Oh, it's a third grade discussion now.
No, YOU"RE a DUMMY!

Oh wow you weren't joking, you actually have no idea what you're talking about

No, you don't know what YOU"RE talking about!

Considering you don't seem to have much of a grasp on the work involved with game development, you're going to have to do a lot better than that if you want to be taken seriously

No, YOU don't have any grasp on the work involved in game development!

So I win now, by rules of the playground, right?
Great post though.

 

[Tornado]

Considering you don't seem to have much of a grasp on the work involved with game development, you're going to have to do a lot better than that if you want to be taken seriously

Oh. I guess I'll have to return my CS degree then.


Way to refute, by the way. How will I ever respond to the staggering evidence presented by a "NO U" response?

 

[Tapey]

No, YOU

It's just hard to take the things you say seriously, I mean you were honestly trying to argue that Polyphony Digital only has 1 member of staff making car models for their games

Then you say some really silly things about the titles they've released since GT4 all being the same game. If you want people to take you seriously you need to use some intelligence and put some actual thought into your posts because really, some of the things you say are so laughable they read as if you're joking.

Oh. I guess I'll have to return my CS degree then.

I don't believe for one second that somebody with a CS degree could honestly say with a straight face that TT, GT5P, GTPSP and GT5 are all the same game. Unless the CS stands for Cooking Sausages or something, anyways

 

[Tornado]

Funny. I seem to recall merely saying that GT5 and GT5 were the same game, that TT didn't have anything to do with GT5 because it was finished before GT5 was started, and that GTPSP was the only game that actually took away from GT5 development time.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yeah Toronado said TT was GT4 with bikes, never said anywhere that is was GT5...way to read Tapey 👍.

 

[Tenacious D]

You know, when I see you go out of your way just to bash Microsoft in this discussion, where the quoted bit here really doesn't have anything to do with the discussion, it makes me not want to bother. Issues with Microsoft aside, seriously.

Well, tell me another company who knowingly sold systems for as much as two years at a close to 70% failure rate. I think the only thing anyone could come up with is the Yugo.

I'm only going to touch on one thing, because you've gone back to just ignoring points when they don't suit you (and it's impossible to take a lot of it seriously anyway when you start throwing around the "monopoly" argument again to justify everything):

If you say so. Any explanation why GT5 has more graphic issues than Prologue, by the way?

You can't seriously be using this as a correlation. GT5 has "1000" cars and dozens of tracks, and what little of a career mode there is still has idiotic car and track selections.

I mean in the game totally. You know, cars in Dealerships and stuff, tracks you can race and time trial on. There are very few tracks you can't race on outside of the A- and B-Spec Events, though there are a couple.

Actually, I'd like to know how removing standard cars would affect track selection at all...

Sorry, meant to say "content," not cars.

Of course, this warrants a "where the hell did you pull that figure from"? ($349-399)

Well, let's see...

How much did (PS2) cost?
I had $300 for a PS2 way quicker then I had $600 for PS3.
And at that rate, $900 for PS4? That'd be a while.

Of course, this warrants a "where the hell did you pull that figure from"?

Let me quote myself:

I fully expect PS4 to cost $399 at the outside, and more likely $349 at launch. They aren't going to need a GPU with 5760x2160p resolution at 120fps. Or eight Cell or whatever processors. They won't need ultraviolet laser diodes for a brand new optical format. By this time, off-the-shelf electronics will be plenty cheap. And I expect SONY to produce one capable model to amortize costs better. And GT6 won't take much longer at all to build for PS4 than PS3.

Let's look at just one hardware example.

MSI GeForce GT 430 with 1GB DDR3 at Newegg.
$55. For a full graphics card with perhaps 40 times the power of RSX. Before $20 rebate. Now what do you suppose the GPU itself cost? And how much do you think it would cost in two years? $15? Or would a 500 series GPU cost the same by that time?

SAMSUNG Black 12X BD-ROM $60.

In 2006, the single-speed dual layer Blu-ray drive in PS3 was estimated to cost SONY as much as $200 per unit. Today, perhaps as little as $20. How much more would a quad-layer 16 speed Blu-ray drive cost in two years? If any? $50, if that?

Cell itself is dirt cheap today, compared to when it was estimated to cost as much as $150 per unit in 2006. A custom RISC quad-core CPU of any kind running at around 3.5ghz could cost $20 per unit in 2013, so a dual CPU reinforced by a constellation of SPE-like co-processors could cost as little as $50.

If the CPUs and GPU were combined in one form factor, the whole shebang could cost $90 or less at first, but then drop quickly in months with production numbers and fewer bad chips. I'm not sure they'll do it this way, I don't think so, but it is discussed.

System and graphics ram will be cheaper and high performance, hard drives will explode in capacity, perhaps be 10k rpms, and all will be cheaper than what we have now.

Am I still making things up?

Now of course, everything depends on the world holding together, so I'd suggest some prayer for our misguided little rock, third from the sun.

 

[CSLACR]

It's just hard to take the things you say seriously, I mean you were honestly trying to argue that Polyphony Digital only has 1 member of staff making car models for their games

Then you say some really silly things about the titles they've released since GT4 all being the same game. If you want people to take you seriously you need to use some intelligence and put some actual thought into your posts because really, some of the things you say are so laughable they read as if you're joking.



I don't believe for one second that somebody with a CS degree could honestly say with a straight face that TT, GT5P, GTPSP and GT5 are all the same game. Unless the CS stands for Cooking Sausages or something, anyways

I can say the same to you.
So I will. Nu-uh, you are. How much merit does that hold to you? Now just imagine that's what I'm thinking of your posts.

Funny. I seem to recall merely saying that GT5 and GT5 were the same game, that TT didn't have anything to do with GT5 because it was finished before GT5 was started, and that GTPSP was the only game that actually took away from GT5 development time.

Which is pretty much what I got at earlier, but I digress.
TT was GT4 with bikes modeled in. GT5P is part of GT5. GTPSP is part of GT5, but needed different formatting to work for PSP. What's the fourth game? Tapey said they made 4 games in between GT4 and GT5....He couldn't possibly count GT HD as a game, could he? If he does, I guess the Demo counts too, making it 5?

Yeah Toronado said TT was GT4 with bikes, never said anywhere that is was GT5...way to read Tapey 👍.

He's a skimmer.
Basically, no point in continuing with these types, because they're never bothered enough to read and comprehend others views, ever.

Well, tell me another company who knowingly sold systems for as much as two years at a close to 70% failure rate. I think the only thing anyone could come up with is the Yugo.

I know Sony took a hit on PS3 for a while, ironic you'd bring that up then.

Of course, this warrants a "where the hell did you pull that figure from"?

PS1 = 150 PS2 = 300 PS3 = 600
You're right, at the going rate of Sony console price increase, we're looking at $1200.

Let's look at just one hardware example.

MSI GeForce GT 430 with 1GB DDR3 at Newegg.
$55. For a full graphics card with perhaps 40 times the power of RSX. Before $20 rebate. Now what do you suppose the GPU itself cost? And how much do you think it would cost in two years? $15? Or would a 500 series GPU cost the same by that time?

SAMSUNG Black 12X BD-ROM $60.

In 2006, the single-speed dual layer Blu-ray drive in PS3 was estimated to cost SONY as much as $200 per unit. Today, perhaps as little as $20. How much more would a quad-layer 16 speed Blu-ray drive cost in two years? If any? $50, if that?

Cell itself is dirt cheap today, compared to when it was estimated to cost as much as $150 per unit in 2006. A custom RISC quad-core CPU of any kind running at around 3.5ghz could cost $20 per unit in 2013, so a dual CPU reinforced by a constellation of SPE-like co-processors could cost as little as $50.

If the CPUs and GPU were combined in one form factor, the whole shebang could cost $90 or less at first, but then drop quickly in months with production numbers and fewer bad chips. I'm not sure they'll do it this way, I don't think so, but it is discussed.

System and graphics ram will be cheaper and high performance, hard drives will explode in capacity, perhaps be 10k rpms, and all will be cheaper than what we have now.

Am I still making things up?

Now of course, everything depends on the world holding together, so I'd suggest some prayer for our misguided little rock, third from the sun.

You could be right about the price. I'm fully aware of how certain things have gotten cheaper. But companies find a way to make things expensive, too.
It seems you mistook the question as a "you're full of it" statement, rather then a, "please don't pull numbers out of thin air" question.
I thought mine was obvious. Sony has continually charged around double for each system, in order. 500-1000 dollars would really not surprise me one bit.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Tenacious...how hard is it to figure out where he got the figures from? The PS2 did cost about $300 (USD) during holiday season of 2001, same year GT3 was released. PS3 did cost $600 (USD) during it's release as well. Alot of hardcore fans of GT only buy a PS system for the ability to play the next installment of GT. So with the systems being chronological in release time, why wouldn't the cost be somewhat exponential to that? I can see where CSL gets the 900 dollar figure. Especially if people go crazy on ebay for the system pre-release.

 

[CSLACR]

Tenacious...how hard is it to figure out where he got the figures from? The PS2 did cost about $300 (USD) during holiday season of 2001, same year GT3 was released. PS3 did cost $600 (USD) during it's release as well. Alot of hardcore fans of GT only buy a PS system for the ability to play the next installment of GT. So with the systems being chronological in release time, why wouldn't the cost be somewhat exponential to that? I can see where CSL gets the 900 dollar figure. Especially if people go crazy on ebay for the system pre-release.

I actually just meant in stores. Systems have already breached 1K easily on ebay.
But it's all speculation at this point, with zero to go off of that's solid, IMO.

But if we simply go by the increase rate, we're looking at a very high opening price, and no matter of financial matters that mean they "could" charge less, means they will. Of course that's just my opinion, based of what I know of corporate greed, the thing TD seems to think Sony doesn't have.

 

[Tenacious D]

PS1 = 150 PS2 = 300 PS3 = 600
You're right, at the going rate of Sony console price increase, we're looking at $1200.

You could be right about the price. I'm fully aware of how certain things have gotten cheaper. But companies find a way to make things expensive, too.
It seems you mistook the question as a "you're full of it" statement, rather then a, "please don't pull numbers out of thin air" question.
I thought mine was obvious. Sony has continually charged around double for each system, in order. 500-1000 dollars would really not surprise me one bit.

Except the PS1 was $299 at launch. When you bought it... that's another matter.

The reason that the PS3 was so high is because it was costing SONY as much as $850 to make the first few runs of PS3, vs around $400-plus for the PS1 and 2.

Anyhow, enough of this frivolity, I'm late for freaking everything.

 

[Tapey]

Which is pretty much what I got at earlier, but I digress.
TT was GT4 with bikes modeled in. GT5P is part of GT5. GTPSP is part of GT5, but needed different formatting to work for PSP. What's the fourth game? Tapey said they made 4 games in between GT4 and GT5....He couldn't possibly count GT HD as a game, could he? If he does, I guess the Demo counts too, making it 5?

Actually what I said was "In those 6 years PD put out 4 games for 3 different consoles" but it seems that you're not very good at reading. Then again you are also a firm believer that PD only has 1 member of their development team dedicated to modeling cars and that the PS4 will cost $1200 so maybe you're just stark raving mad

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I actually just meant in stores. Systems have already breached 1K easily on ebay.
But it's all speculation at this point, with zero to go off of that's solid, IMO.

But if we simply go by the increase rate, we're looking at a very high opening price, and no matter of financial matters that mean they "could" charge less, means they will. Of course that's just my opinion, based of what I know of corporate greed, the thing TD seems to think Sony doesn't have.

I know what you meant, the prices I gave were the store prices for the systems. I only said ebay, because we all know that pre-released sony system sell for much more on ebay.

 

[CSLACR]

Actually what I said was "In those 6 years PD put out 4 games for 3 different consoles" but it seems that you're not very good at reading. Then again you are also a firm believer that PD only has 1 member of their development team dedicated to modeling cars and that the PS4 will cost $1200 so maybe you're just stark raving mad

(Throws hand in air)
You're just so smart and clever, I don't know what else to do, sigh.

The hypocrisy you display in this post is simply astounding.

 

[shurnster]

There's rumors about T10 working working on the next gen xbox, if it's true I believe that PD should just work on the next gen console to keep up with the competition. I'm already expecting to see Forza on a next gen console to have everything that GT5 has and more.

 

[yogaflame]

Please Sony dont turn it into another Nissan experience. More American and European cars and no more standards, all cars should have cockpit view and also live editor.

 

[GTP_Gearhead]

What a thread. So many good points and opinions wrapped up for our reading pleasure. Once I got passed the Toronado/Brainfade battle, I really got into it. I love coming back to these threads a few years later and seeing who had it nailed. Thanks for the great read thusfar guys.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

Please Sony dont turn it into another Nissan experience. More American and European cars and no more standards, all cars should have cockpit view and also live editor.

Maybe this time it would be Miatas expirience A just hope that we wont wait another 4-5 year's for GT6

 

[daus26]

Guys, I'm pretty confident the PS4 won't be as expensive as the PS3 at upwards of $600. The PS3 as already mentioned by some, introduced a whole new technology (blu-ray), and cell structure. This blu-ray technology was so expensive, first model blu-ray players were upwards of $1,000 or more. It made the PS3 at $600, a steal really. However, now blu-ray players can be found for as cheap as $60. If the PS4 sticks to the blu-ray, perhaps upgrading to more layers and data, and similar cell technology, it shouldn't cost as much as we think. My guess is at least $400.

Also, you guys are forgetting that Sony wants the PS3 to last at least 10 years (actively) in the market. I doubt they would want to be abandoning PS3 support by having all their heavy hitters move on to the PS4. They can at least have one last GT game, to keep the PS3 active in the market. Plus, they are really starting to pick up income with every PS3 sold. The PS4, is really to just ensure that they don't fall behind the competition with M$ and Nintendo by being too late into the market, as they did with M$ specifically.

Most of you supporting GT6's release for the PS4 talk about Sony's financial situation, but is this really the best way for Sony? I'm no marketing expert, but I think it's clear that Sony does not need the GT franchise at launch to be successful in the end. Look at PS2's success. It didn't have GT at launch, even from the popularity the first GT set for the first PS1. PS3, is pretty successful for its rough start, and it certainly didn't have a GT game early on. For the PS4? All people need to know is that there will be a GT game for it. If not at launch, people will eventually buy the PS4 for GT when it releases.

 

[cuco33]

All I can hope for is that we won't see any Prologue nonsense and that a full fledged GT6 game will be developed without any car disparities of standard vs premium as well as significantly less inconsistencies with features throughout the game... I want the game to be launched as complete as possible, not depending on numerous patches to make the game better or playable. 1st order of business for me would be to properly manage the next title either by proper resource management by growing the PD team or outsourcing if PD wants to take on additional non-game related projects.

I would love to see GT6 being released sooner than later, during PS3 era and not PS4 era.