KY Confirms GT6 In Development Already

[Tenacious D]

About that GT6 and PS4. On both of those items, this is up to SONY and Kaz, but with Gran Turismo of course, mostly Kaz. Get ready for another LENGTHY Tenacious dissertation, but it should have a lot of food for thought. Maybe too much, but oh well.

First the PS4. It's looking highly likely that both the PS2 and PS3 will be breaking the 11 year production barrier established by the PS1. The PS2 has proven to have extreme longevity thanks to an excellent library and surprisingly good graphic capacity. Even in this HD age, games like Devil May Cry 3 look stunning on the PS2. And the game library is freaking huge, with a massive number of new and used games of fantastic quality and gameplay. PS3 of course is far better, with true 1080p capacity with Blu-ray, a much larger optical media, Move support, and standard off-the-shelf user replaceable hard drives, as well as all kinds of built in connectivity. And then there are the incredible games, a large number of highly addicting titles from A Class developers such as Insomniac, Guerrilla Games, Naughty Dog, and our much loved Polyphony Digital. The computational, graphic and audio capacity of the PS3 is so great that it could well be manufactured for several more years, to serve as both a game system and videophile quality Blu-ray player.

GT5 seems to have plumbed the depths to which that Cell power of PS3 can be mined. While it looks breathtaking, for the most part, there are sometimes ugly graphical glitches depending on the scene and what the RSX is trying to render. Still, this is an example of the bleeding edge of graphics, and other games such as Uncharted, Killzone and Ratchet & Clank are able to paint amazingly lush, detailed worlds full of color, life and action. Great explosions and stuff.

But SONY is making products to sell to a public hungry for the best in affordable entertainment. While GT5 is an amazing racer with visuals to die for, for the most part, it's those graphic glitches that make some critics... well, critical. No one likes criticism. It affects the buying mood of the public, sometimes to a detrimental extent. It doesn't look like this has tainted GT5 or the PS3. Yet. As CSLACR has posted, within two weeks of release, the first pay-for-DLC has racked up a million sales. And I expect GT5 to sell by the truckload this holiday season.

But how long can this last with a fickle game buying public, especially with the Wii HD/2/Whatever looming in the wings next year, and fairly solid rumors of NextBox dev kits going to developers? Forza 4 is looking extremely good, with none of the graphic glitches of GT5 (as of Spec II), and a pretty rock solid 60fps framerate.

SONY execs have some well paid fortune tellers predicting market moves which they rely on to make future business decisions, such as how viable and profitable it would be to rely on PS3 as the primary HD entertainment platform for X-number years. And how many GT5 games will sell over the coming years with continued support from PD, or without. And this has to be predicted well ahead, years in advance of any decisions on production of anything. DVDs and Blu-rays can be stamped or stopped at a moment's notice, but the plants have to have their workloads scheduled for maximum efficiency. Running a manufacturing plant is nothing like managing the utilities of your home. Factories can't just be turned on and off, there's a lengthy process involved in every production action, and things must be plotted on calendars in order to keep costs manageable. Making a game console is even worse.

At some point, a prediction of some barometer crossing a certain threshhold will mean that the PS3 will be a second grade market item, then a third, then dead. If being second grade means unacceptable losses, they want PS4 to be there within a certain market timing window to fight that gap head on and begin to penetrate the market in big numbers to establish the new Playstation generation. While rumors point to 2014 or even later, this is pure speculation at this point, due to the cold war nature of the contest between SONY and MS, and the impact Wii2 will have. And how much the buying public seems hungry for the next Playstation. It's possible Wii2 or XBox3 could change these equations drastically.

So what does this mean for GT5 DLC and GT6, and its platform? SONY knows that a Gran Turismo of any kind will make them a small fortune in guaranteed globals sales. GT5 Prologue was proof of that, being a rare platinum seller on pre-orders alone, and outselling many major games. But they also know that it's cheaper to milk an existing franchise, and GT5 is still very popular. Even though some here were sure the first DLC was going to bomb, it sold amazingly well and made SONY millions of dollars more with very little cost. Many here, including me, bought the whole thing.

Some of you may not like this, but this is a sign that we may be looking at Spec III, Spec IV - plus, and periodic DLC keeping GT5 the current Gran Turismo game for a few years. On top of that, if you've read many interviews of Kazunori, he considers each game much like a son, and wants it to be loved by the fans as he does. It's clear that GT5 wasn't living up to his expectations either, with the frooky work schedule such as GT PSP production intruding, a damage model which displeased just about everyone and ended up being scrapped with a year or more of work on it, and other matters. He wanted as much as three more years of work on it, but we all begged him - well, except me - to release something which could be patched later, and no doubt SONY gave Kaz a do or die deadline of last holiday season.

We may be in the first year of his three year after-market upgrade scheme, managed by a portion of the team, though perhaps most or all of the coders from time to time. I see nothing but positives for this, as GT5 is already a solid, extremely fun and pretty darn realistic racer which just needs some modifying here and there. Some of the changes I mentioned in a previous post could easily be done to enhance an already great game, such as expanding A-Spec Events, adding an Event/Championship Generator, Livery Templates and other things. Graphics can be tweaked even more, shadows, particle effects and framerate issues more or less fixed. The online system can have a major overhaul. Many things can be implemented without too much work with periodic updates to keep GT5 fresh and engaging to the gaming public. Of course if I'm right, this means no GT6 until 2014 or 2015, and on PS4.

For you guys groaning at all this, there is another possibility.

I don't expect a GT6 until 2013 at the very earliest, because two years between GTs of this scale is just too soon, and as I said, the DLC makes GT5 just too profitable. And assuming PD took NO break, which just isn't feasable - or humane, they could model at the most an additional 100 some odd cars and 10 tracks, give or take, based on the production time of GT5. Being pretty sure that GT6 will only have Premium-level content, the game would then only have around 330 cars and 30 tracks, with some variations. At least three years would afford them some breathing room. And okay, this is with PD's current staff size of around 150, with perhaps 80 of them being modelers. In three years, with an expanded staff, a GT6 could have 500-600 cars, and 60 tracks plus the usual variations. Along with that, a whole slew of new features, and numerous fixes which caused so many complaints for GT5.

There are clearly advantages to releasing a GT6 on PS3.

• The PS3 is well established, with a large user base and good racing wheels available.
• Much of the work is already established making GT5.
• The team knows the system well by now, and can perhaps squeeze even more power out of it with time to devote specifically to enhancements.
• A number of fans want it on PS3.
• Shortcomings of GT5 left many fans wanting GT6 early.
• Game design can be focused on by the team, and will be more like the game we want, without strange things like the XP system and paint chips.

But likewise, there are a number of reasons to save GT6 for PS4.

• GT5 is still quite popular.
• DLC and updates will keep GT5 interest high, make a lot of profit for SONY, transform the game in many ways, and buy extra time for GT6 development.
• The power of the PS3 has been tapped for the most part, and GT5 shows the consequences.
• Some features just can't be done on PS3, such as the Movie Maker which was scrapped because PS3 lacks enough ram.
• The team will have worked on the development of PS4, the OS and tools, so it will be mostly familiar to them.
• GT6 will sell a good number of PS4s.
• New technology means automatic hype and appeal for a new game.
• Game engine porting will require little work, can have numerous added features and much more performance. Model and asset porting will be no trouble.
• Graphics will show huge improvement.
• More powerful processors will allow more complicated dynamics such as A.I., damage modeling, effects such as weather and time of day transition, and the same may well be true of physics.
• Race fields will have more cars.
• Movie Maker will now be possible, as well as many, many powerful features.
• More, but I'm getting tired.

What comes of all this is anyone's guess. But what I know for sure is that I want GT6, will buy it, and will undoubtedly love it, no matter what system it's on.

 

[shurnster]

@Tenacious D

Great read 👍

Hopefully GT6 will have free roam implemented.

 

[CSLACR]

I simply believe on PD's strategy on releasing 2 "full" games on each PS system.

PS1: GT1 and 2
PS2: GT3 and 4, the Prologues doesn't count as full games
PS3: GT5 and 6... same case with Prologues.

That's a good observation, I never even thought of it that way actually. Nice

Kaz's words that "GT6 will take a lot less time then GT5", or something to that extent, tell me they're planning it for PS3.
I don't foresee it possible with PD's lengthy process it being a release title for PS4, and it would have to be close to it to be released in any reasonable amount of time on PS4.

 

[Tapey]

In my opinion, Sony learnt some very hard lessons with the launch of the PS3. The two that stand out most of all are that being one year late to the market hurt them significantly, and not having a Gran Turismo game available during the launch window of the console also caused a lot of damage and contributed to the painful launch that the console experienced.

Gran Turismo 3 was released a few months after the launch of the PS2 and remains to this day the best-selling game in the franchise, for one of the best-selling consoles ever made. If Sony has any sense about them, they will have handed Polyphony Digital development kits with the rough specifications of the PS4 and got them working on GT6 as a title to be released within the launch window of the console.

Under no circumstances does Sony want Microsoft beating them to launch again with their new console, and the fact that both Sony and Microsoft have studios working on games for their new home consoles is testament to their intentions to have very powerful console launches to really slug it out during the most important time of a consoles lifespan, the launch period.

The absolute best decision that they can make with PD is to have some DLC support for GT5 while they prime GT6 as a launch game for the PS4 in a couple of years. They don't need to start from scratch all over again, but simply get everything working properly (steady 60fps, weather and time of day for all tracks etc) with the breathing room afforded by the vast increase in hardware capability compared to the PS3.

If Sony leave PD to make GT6 as a PS3 game, they will pay the price for it by losing more market share to Microsoft and face another tough uphill battle come next console generation. It was fantastic that we got GT4 so late in the PS2 lifecycle, but it was followed shortly by the Xbox 360 a few months later and the Playstation 3 one year later (with a pathetic lineup of launch games).

I'd also like to note that not long after the launch of GT5, Shuhei Yoshida (he oversees Sony's first party studios) stated that PD were working on their next project and that it would take a few years. This is looooooong before Kaz came out and said GT6 was in development, so it's a very safe bet that Sony has finally wised-up and has set them to work on a PS4 title. This is no doubt related to the expansion of Polyphony Digital as a studio to allow for faster content creation, since PS2 assets in a PS3 game is bad enough, but they simply cannot allow that to happen with whatever game they're working on for the PS4.

 

[Snaeper]

About that GT6 and PS4. On both of those items, this is up to SONY and Kaz, but with Gran Turismo of course, mostly Kaz.

And so far, one of them has indicated that the PS4 will come around the end of 2014 and the other has indicated GT6 is in development. To me, this screams GT6 on the PS3, but that's just me. I feel my theory is fairly sound.

SONY execs have some well paid fortune tellers predicting market moves which they rely on to make future business decisions, such as how viable and profitable it would be to rely on PS3 as the primary HD entertainment platform for X-number years. And how many GT5 games will sell over the coming years with continued support from PD, or without. And this has to be predicted well ahead, years in advance of any decisions on production of anything. DVDs and Blu-rays can be stamped or stopped at a moment's notice, but the plants have to have their workloads scheduled for maximum efficiency. Running a manufacturing plant is nothing like managing the utilities of your home. Factories can't just be turned on and off, there's a lengthy process involved in every production action, and things must be plotted on calendars in order to keep costs manageable. Making a game console is even worse.

Yeah I brought that up in my last post. (I quoted it below for you)

Back in 2008, Hirai-san said that he wanted to beat the PS2's sales numbers with the PS3 (PS2 sold 140 million in nine years and he wants to do 150 million) in the same nine years or more. This would give at least 4-5 years on the PS3's life cycle and thus pointing at a PS4 around late 2014 and early 2015 which is still a good source to go off of given hints by other CEO's within the company recently.

So far it's looking like Sony is aiming for the 2014 date or even later. Since these manufacturing plants you talk about can't change on a moments notice, I don't see any reason why Sony would suddenly rush a system through development just to respond to rumors about dev kits and the Wii 2 (which they've said they're not worried about since it's implementing things that the PS3 had when it was new back in late '06). Especially if it means hastily developing a system and risking it not working well, which would hamper public perception, since everyone in your world is innately aware of video game goings-on. The PS3 is a strong system and can compete with a successor to the Wii and the Xbox for at least a year or two. As you say, even the PS2 is still relevant in this day and age, so there's really no need to rush the PS4 development, considering it hasn't even begun yet.

At some point, a prediction of some barometer crossing a certain threshhold will mean that the PS3 will be a second grade market item, then a third, then dead. If being second grade means unacceptable losses, they want PS4 to be there within a certain market timing window to fight that gap head on and begin to penetrate the market in big numbers to establish the new Playstation generation. While rumors point to 2014 or even later, this is pure speculation at this point, due to the cold war nature of the contest between SONY and MS, and the impact Wii2 will have. And how much the buying public seems hungry for the next Playstation. It's possible Wii2 or XBox3 could change these equations drastically.

There is more than just rumors. There is Kaz Hirai saying he plans on the PS3 being on the market for 9 or more years until it meets his 150 million goal, which means that the PS3 will be around until late 2014 or even later. Then there's another Sony Exec who recently stated that he isn't worried about the Wii 2 and that they wont even think about releasing the PS4 until around 2014. So why you call 2014 pure speculation is beyond me. Anything else is pure speculation. 2013 is pure speculation until you can provide proof otherwise.

So what does this mean for GT5 DLC and GT6, and its platform? SONY knows that a Gran Turismo of any kind will make them a small fortune in guaranteed globals sales.

*And then they made GT6 on the PS3 in 2012/2013, because of that exact reason.*

GT5 Prologue was proof of that, being a rare platinum seller on pre-orders alone, and outselling many major games. But they also know that it's cheaper to milk an existing franchise, and GT5 is still very popular. Even though some here were sure the first DLC was going to bomb, it sold amazingly well and made SONY millions of dollars more with very little cost. Many here, including me, bought the whole thing.

"So wait a minute, Kaz..."
"Yes Hirai-san?"
"You're telling me that Prologue sold so well... and it was slim on features?"
"... Yes Hirai-san."
"So why can't we just make another GT game, take the feature set from GT5 and then just add on some more, since it would be a better game than both GT5 and Prologue combined? And we know it'll sell because those two certainly did! Plus it'll help us move more consoles to help me reach my 150 million PS3 goal!"
"That sounds like a good plan Hirai-san, there's a number of things that didn't make it into GT5 anyways, so we could probably make stuff for the next game as well as GT5 DLC and we should be fine!"
"And this time, lets get the ball rolling on the DLC a bit sooner so we can milk it while all the casual gamers are still playing, eh?"
"I'll see what I can do, Hirai-san."

That seems like a plausible conversation, doesn't it? (albeit they would need to both be bro's)

We may be in the first year of his three year after-market upgrade scheme, managed by a portion of the team, though perhaps most or all of the coders from time to time.

What? Where are you getting this from?

I see nothing but positives for this, as GT5 is already a solid, extremely fun and pretty darn realistic racer which just needs some modifying here and there and then you have GT6 on the PS3. Some of the changes I mentioned in a previous post could easily be done to enhance an already great game, such as expanding A-Spec Events, adding an Event/Championship Generator, Livery Templates and other things.

Or they could be implemented in a new game since you also said this in a previous post:

When you build something with all the features included from the start, it's more stable, more complete, more fluid and feels less "pasted in," and generally works better.

See! Even you agree that trying to rely on pasting features onto GT5 for four years is a bad idea.

Graphics can be tweaked even more, shadows, particle effects and framerate issues more or less fixed. The online system can have a major overhaul. Many things can be implemented without too much work with periodic updates to keep GT5 fresh and engaging to the gaming public.

Suddenly fixing (or at least updating/improving) the graphics is possible on the PS3, eh?

Well if it doesn't take that much work to make the DLC upgrades on GT5, why not just make that same amount of little effort to make a whole game and completely revitalize the player-base instead of keeping the current GT5 player base interested for FOUR WHOLE YEARS.

Of course if I'm right, this means no GT6 until 2014 or 2015, and on PS4.

Pardon me for doubting you.

I don't expect a GT6 until 2013 at the very earliest, because two years between GTs of this scale is just too soon, and as I said, the DLC makes GT5 just too profitable.

"My goodness, we're making so much money! God forbid we spend any of it to make a new game to make even MORE money!"

Seriously though, they wouldn't make another game because they're "too profitable"? When it makes fiscal sense to spend money that they actually have on developing another game?

And assuming PD took NO break, which just isn't feasable - or humane...

They're a business! Do you think the entire staff takes a few months off to kick up their feet and let the money roll in? At most they got a week or two off and then they're back at it preparing the next title, because that's what they're paid to do.

What comes of all this is anyone's guess. But what I know for sure is that I want GT6, will buy it, and will undoubtedly love it, no matter what system it's on.

So you're willing to spend money on a new console and a game rather than just the game?


Now on an interesting thought I had about a launch title on the PS4. You said yourself that Prologue did really well despite only being 30+ cars strong (growing to 70+) so why not just release a PS4/GT7 Prologue since it will give a solid GT title to give those who want a GT title optimized for the PS4, and buying PD time to really create an optimized game to give Sony and Playstation a second wind only a few years later. The Prologue theory could work too, since there would be enough other titles available to take some of the attention away from it's lack of content (since articles comment several unnamed first-party developers initially starting work on the PS4 ideas). A GT7 Prologue title could easily be bundled together with Playstation 4's and it would probably move a lot of systems.

Knowing Kaz and looking at the history of him making GT5 on the massive PS3, he'll probably go back to the drawing board on a number of things and will find ways to draw out the dev time on any title on the PS4, taking what was a four year gap from GT5 to the PS4 to a 5+ year gap from GT5 and GT6, whenever it releases. Not saying it will happen, but it could looking at Gran Turismo 5 and the PS3. So I'd much rather have GT6 on the PS3 and then a GT7 as a launch day PS4 title and then let Yamauchi-san and PD take their time on making a good game on the PS4. Meanwhile we don't die of boredom using a game that's been on life-support for four years, instead using a game that's only two years old AND we have a shiny new Prologue to play in case we really wanna see what the PS4 is capable of.

By the way, GT7 Prologue would essentially take about 30+ cars from GT5/6 and then add in 30+ more that were developed after GT6 (or it could use less and just add in new features on the cars that have been seen before). It would also introduce the graphical improvements and anything else that they want to try using the new PS4 hardward. If they add a livery editor and modifications, they could actually make a really decent game! Heck, they could have aroudn 6-7 tracks and then throw in the track creator and you could easily have a game that would last a year or more! Giving PD a comfortable window between GT6 on the PS3 in 2012 and then GT7 on the PS4 in 2015/2016.

Another aspect we should consider, by the way, is what the car manufacturers and racing series want! They may want to see their product on a hard copy of the game, released regularly. If they hear about the company sitting around developing their titles, then who knows! They could take licenses away and give them to another company (assuming the license was an exclusive one).

 

[brainfade]

@ Tenacious D, good post...

The cynicism on this thread is hilarious.

 

[shurnster]

Hopefully they'll show something at the E3 with their GT6 concept

 

[CSLACR]

And so far, one of them has indicated that the PS4 will come around the end of 2014 and the other has indicated GT6 is in development. To me, this screams GT6 on the PS3, but that's just me. I feel my theory is fairly sound.



Yeah I brought that up in my last post. (I quoted it below for you)



So far it's looking like Sony is aiming for the 2014 date or even later. Since these manufacturing plants you talk about can't change on a moments notice, I don't see any reason why Sony would suddenly rush a system through development just to respond to rumors about dev kits and the Wii 2 (which they've said they're not worried about since it's implementing things that the PS3 had when it was new back in late '06). Especially if it means hastily developing a system and risking it not working well, which would hamper public perception, since everyone in your world is innately aware of video game goings-on. The PS3 is a strong system and can compete with a successor to the Wii and the Xbox for at least a year or two. As you say, even the PS2 is still relevant in this day and age, so there's really no need to rush the PS4 development, considering it hasn't even begun yet.



There is more than just rumors. There is Kaz Hirai saying he plans on the PS3 being on the market for 9 or more years until it meets his 150 million goal, which means that the PS3 will be around until late 2014 or even later. Then there's another Sony Exec who recently stated that he isn't worried about the Wii 2 and that they wont even think about releasing the PS4 until around 2014. So why you call 2014 pure speculation is beyond me. Anything else is pure speculation. 2013 is pure speculation until you can provide proof otherwise.



*And then they made GT6 on the PS3 in 2012/2013, because of that exact reason.*



"So wait a minute, Kaz..."
"Yes Hirai-san?"
"You're telling me that Prologue sold so well... and it was slim on features?"
"... Yes Hirai-san."
"So why can't we just make another GT game, take the feature set from GT5 and then just add on some more, since it would be a better game than both GT5 and Prologue combined? And we know it'll sell because those two certainly did! Plus it'll help us move more consoles to help me reach my 150 million PS3 goal!"
"That sounds like a good plan Hirai-san, there's a number of things that didn't make it into GT5 anyways, so we could probably make stuff for the next game as well as GT5 DLC and we should be fine!"
"And this time, lets get the ball rolling on the DLC a bit sooner so we can milk it while all the casual gamers are still playing, eh?"
"I'll see what I can do, Hirai-san."

That seems like a plausible conversation, doesn't it? (albeit they would need to both be bro's)



What? Where are you getting this from?



Or they could be implemented in a new game since you also said this in a previous post:



See! Even you agree that trying to rely on pasting features onto GT5 for four years is a bad idea.



Suddenly fixing (or at least updating/improving) the graphics is possible on the PS3, eh?

Well if it doesn't take that much work to make the DLC upgrades on GT5, why not just make that same amount of little effort to make a whole game and completely revitalize the player-base instead of keeping the current GT5 player base interested for FOUR WHOLE YEARS.



Pardon me for doubting you.



"My goodness, we're making so much money! God forbid we spend any of it to make a new game to make even MORE money!"

Seriously though, they wouldn't make another game because they're "too profitable"? When it makes fiscal sense to spend money that they actually have on developing another game?



They're a business! Do you think the entire staff takes a few months off to kick up their feet and let the money roll in? At most they got a week or two off and then they're back at it preparing the next title, because that's what they're paid to do.



So you're willing to spend money on a new console and a game rather than just the game?


Now on an interesting thought I had about a launch title on the PS4. You said yourself that Prologue did really well despite only being 30+ cars strong (growing to 70+) so why not just release a PS4/GT7 Prologue since it will give a solid GT title to give those who want a GT title optimized for the PS4, and buying PD time to really create an optimized game to give Sony and Playstation a second wind only a few years later. The Prologue theory could work too, since there would be enough other titles available to take some of the attention away from it's lack of content (since articles comment several unnamed first-party developers initially starting work on the PS4 ideas). A GT7 Prologue title could easily be bundled together with Playstation 4's and it would probably move a lot of systems.

Knowing Kaz and looking at the history of him making GT5 on the massive PS3, he'll probably go back to the drawing board on a number of things and will find ways to draw out the dev time on any title on the PS4, taking what was a four year gap from GT5 to the PS4 to a 5+ year gap from GT5 and GT6, whenever it releases. Not saying it will happen, but it could looking at Gran Turismo 5 and the PS3. So I'd much rather have GT6 on the PS3 and then a GT7 as a launch day PS4 title and then let Yamauchi-san and PD take their time on making a good game on the PS4. Meanwhile we don't die of boredom using a game that's been on life-support for four years, instead using a game that's only two years old AND we have a shiny new Prologue to play in case we really wanna see what the PS4 is capable of.

By the way, GT7 Prologue would essentially take about 30+ cars from GT5/6 and then add in 30+ more that were developed after GT6 (or it could use less and just add in new features on the cars that have been seen before). It would also introduce the graphical improvements and anything else that they want to try using the new PS4 hardward. If they add a livery editor and modifications, they could actually make a really decent game! Heck, they could have aroudn 6-7 tracks and then throw in the track creator and you could easily have a game that would last a year or more! Giving PD a comfortable window between GT6 on the PS3 in 2012 and then GT7 on the PS4 in 2015/2016.

Another aspect we should consider, by the way, is what the car manufacturers and racing series want! They may want to see their product on a hard copy of the game, released regularly. If they hear about the company sitting around developing their titles, then who knows! They could take licenses away and give them to another company (assuming the license was an exclusive one).

Many good points.

Waiting another 5 years for GT6 would be the death of the GT series as we know it, IMO.

How many people will jump ship is the only question for me. If I hear, at any time, for a fact, that GT6 won't be here until PS4, that'll be bye-bye Sony, hello PC or XBOX.

I find it highly unlikely that PD has been developing a PS4 game for years now, with years to come before the release of PS4. But in any case, I can afford one system, and racing sims are my genre.
For those like me, 1 game every half decade isn't enough, period.

And yes, I find that very relevant to this discussion.
Can PD afford to wait another 5 years for a game to release?

I don't think so.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

It will be disaster to wait until PS4 for GT6. Am little bored with GT5 (lack of A-spec races) and already think about GT6. With 100 new car's, 5-10 track and much more and bigger A-spec races GT6 would be blast! For me it's enough to buy new game. Only one think in terms of graphic should be better (if it's possible) and that is shadows.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Definitely on the PS3. I can see GT6 as 1.5- or 2.0 year project, much like GT2 and GT3.

Premium cars are already future-proofed. I can see GT6 as a summer/fall 2013 game. GT7, if they decide to make it, can take its time and be on the PS4, just as GT5 took its time (but hopefully not as long).

 

[diegorborges]

Nice post Tenacious-D and Sneaper, I usually don't miss any of those long posts because if some of you guys spent some time writing all that, its a signal of respect to read and take the good points... thanks for sharing your toughts.

Imho, together with my beliefs on the 2 full games per console strategy, I also believe that the GT5 is literally a TEST MULE for GT6... on the PS3.

Ever seen those pics with car being tested? Cars with weird hide height and camouflage while testing an awesome new car under all that ugly stuff... And some stuff just points GT as being similar to that, like PD trial and error techniques through the updates.... WE (most of us) asked for this "WIP game" to be completed on the fly, something that could be patched later... I bet this is not Kaz prefered method, but they are using this to develop GT6 on the fly, with our opinions and experience.

And meanwhile, they'll feed us with those updates to make us happy enough to keep playing and trying more and more stuff for them.

As disgusting as it may look, and I don't give a damn duck about this... GT5 is a test mule for GT6. Welcome to the lab guys, we're now Pinky and Brain.

GT5 audience: the biggest proving grounds for a GT game, ever. Think about it. Kaz said that GT5 base is like an operating system and GT6 will be this system with several "apps" running on it. See it?

I don't care, I love GT5. Bring it on... I don't care to test stuff for PD.

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Gran Turismo (Japan): December 23rd, 1997

1 year, 11 months, 18 days later came....

Gran Turismo 2 (Japan): December 11th, 1999

1 year, 4 months, 18 days later came....

Gran Turismo 3


Makes you wonder. This is why I believe it has a great shot to be on this PS3 platform, otherwise, it MIGHT be a LONG wait to see GT6 on a new totally platform. People get very excited thinking about a new console. Get over that immediate hype. Slow down some. Let the PS3 spread its wings a bit.

Wouldn't it be awesome to see a fresh GT6 on PS3, and then have to only wait 3-4 years for PD to totally accustom itself to a new console? That ain't so bad. If you don't like that, try waiting from 2010 until PS4 to see GT6. That might be a while........again.

 

[Snaeper]

Nice post Tenacious-D and Sneaper, I usually don't miss any of those long posts because if some of you guys spent some time writing all that, its a signal of respect to read and take the good points... thanks for sharing your toughts.

Anytime, friend. Thank you for reading!

Imho, together with my beliefs on the 2 full games per console strategy, I also believe that the GT5 is literally a TEST MULE for GT6... on the PS3.

This is definitely a topic that I didn't get to touch on even though I think about it all the time. Thanks for reminding me!

What if GT6 is on track to be released just like PD had planned? What if GT6 was supposed to be GT5, with GT5 being released as a necessity due to us crying out and Sony wanting money?

Considering Yamauchi-san wanted another two years and that before GT5 even released he said that Gran Turismo 6 was already in development says to me that GT6 will release right on schedule... it just wont be called GT5.

We can't forget another Sony rep confirming that they're working on something. But most importantly, that Gran Turismo 6 will not take as long to release as GT5. While one could argue that four years isn't as long, I would argue that it's still silly to not simply make another game in between that time. And since all of this talk was happening before the PS4 even started to cross our minds, it's very easy to assume that GT6 will lead the last hurrah for titles on the Playstation 3 before everyone hunkers down to prepare for the new system.

 

[CSLACR]

Anytime, friend. Thank you for reading!



This is definitely a topic that I didn't get to touch on even though I think about it all the time. Thanks for reminding me!

What if GT6 is on track to be released just like PD had planned? What if GT6 was supposed to be GT5, with GT5 being released as a necessity due to us crying out and Sony wanting money?

Considering Yamauchi-san wanted another two years says to me that GT6 will release right on schedule... it just wont be called GT5.

To me that's synonymous with "PD wanted to skip GT5 and head straight to GT6" and cancelled when they realized 8 years for a game was to much.

GT5 as it is had every potential to be awesome, without the need for much extra, just different implementation on many things.
GT6, by the laws a racing games and sequels, should have been able to be GT5 with a few added things.

But since they originally dropped the ball so badly, GT6 now has to be "GT5 Spec II" plus some new cars, tracks, features, and better implementation to really be a great game. This all boils down to the lackluster performance PD made in releasing GT5. By not being on time before, they started behind the curve on GT6.

 

[Tenacious D]

I thought I'd listen to myself type a bit more, with these two competing views held by Tapey and Snaeper marking the two sides quite distinctly. Since I'm mostly in harmony with Tapey, I'll mull over Snaeper's post.

First, again, PS4. I'd take anything said by SONY execs with a grain or pound of salt. They also said that PS3 was on track for a spring 2006 release in 2005, hoping to cast a long shadow over the upcoming launch of the 360. This console war really is a war between MS and SONY, and tactics and propaganda are playing a big role in it. Of course industry insiders are watching both camps closely for signs of movement, things like ram, optical and hard drive sales, patents and SKU numbers being issued, plant activity, so we'll know ahead of time what both sides are up to. But right now, both are well into development of their respective systems, so anything is possible as far as launch dates. Now for Gran Turismo.

I did indeed say that a purpose built game is better than one that's patched ad nauseum, as GT5 is coming to be. I think everyone is aware of the problems, patches needing patches because of tracks failing to load - or the game itself! - among other issues. No programmer likes to reply on patches because it's harder to have a piece of software be as perfect as one without code stuck in here and there. Just imagine a suit, with patches sewn in at weird spots to get a visual of this.

But fixing GT5 to improve it very much or producing GT6 on PS3 is going to be a problem, either way. Even with the interruptions and things dumped in their laps by SONY, the team had been working on PS3 development and refinement for as much as six-plus years. The GT Engine is pretty mature already on PS3. Making it perform better will require some hoop jumping and compromises. You can do things like cheat, such as having the player's car make the actual sounds as was done in Toca and Forza 4, with the rest of the engine notes and tire screeches being sort of a mixed "soundtrack" which plays a few samples on cue. They could have the non-player cars be greatly reduced Level Of Detail, and do the same thing dynamically for trackside objects, but more so than now. All the cars and trackside objects could have the game reduce detail on them in-game, saving the better models for Photo Mode. The 3D engine could become an optional install, as I advocated. Damage could be reduced to scarring of cars. New content could be culled from the existing GT4 library but improved greatly to "super-Standard" level or something... Optimum level? I'm not sure what to call it, but as yucky as this sounds, it would mean more content sooner.

A number of things could be done, but would Kaz accept them? And would it mean distinct improvement, or just marginally so? Still yucky shaders, still glitchy particle effects on objects, still framerate drops and screen tearing, etc?

I have a feeling that among many fans, news of GT6 in two years on PS3 would mean disappointment for these very reasons, at least for a time, and overall, a bit less enthusiasm. In addition, unless the GT4 assets get improved and ported in, the game will be pretty small. Compared to GT5, it may seem like a big Prologue. Unless the modeling staff is expanded greatly and some additional artists get hired, they won't be able to make more than 150 cars and perhaps 15 tracks, unless they cut way back on the detail.

Another factor is that this bigger team, which I agree is essential, will mean a more expensive Polyphony Digital, and a less profitable GT6. What it might cost is anyone's guess, depending on how many people Kaz sends around the globe to collect data on new cars and tracks, and the licenses SONY will have to pay for. All this means great expense, because those licenses aren't cheap, especially if we happen to be talking about Porsche, and talent of this level is pretty well paid. Especially when you're essentially asking these people to move into PD and live there for years, to one extent or other. 200 more cars and 10 new real world courses could mean $50 million in costs or more over three years. Which I'm sticking to, I don't expect GT6 until early 2014 at the earliest. And a Porsche license from EA? Who knows how much that could cost!

Would we accept a game with reduced in-game detail for slightly better shader and particle effects, a Livery Editor, a better Course Maker, better weather and time of day on all tracks? Some may not like it, and it may get roundly criticized for corner cutting. If they do this for a GT6 to improve it overall, it may get slammed harder than GT5 did. It maybe called "GT5.3" or 5.4 or whatever by the critics. It depends on how apparent it is, and what goodies and features get added in to sweeten the deal. Massively cool features like the Movie Maker just can't be done due to PS3's limited ram, so what else would end up in the discard pile for the next GT?

And ultimately, it depends on whether Kaz and SONY like the idea. Mostly Kaz, of course, because he seems to be able to heroically fend off the dragons of the corporate board years longer than any other first party director could. Just as I posted about those sales forecasts, it depends on how GT5 is looking. Right now, it's hardly on life support. In the game world, Forza 4 made a big splash, but it seems to have affected interest in GT5 very little. While some fans have migrated away, mostly it seems to have given even more passion to demand universal body kits and Race Mod for all the cars, and a powerful Livery Editor. And we're sticking with it, racing on- and offline most every day, convincing friends to pick up a copy, and looking forward to more improvements from PD. This means GT5 is still a revenue stream for SONY, and gives Kaz the authority to keep pursuing improvements on his latest "child."

And where I got the "three year project" notion is from Kaz mentioning in an interview, I think one of the videos, in which he said he really wanted another three years to work on GT5, but it was becoming a distraction and hard on the fans to wait any longer. And SONY was getting angry, obviously. With DLC and Spec improvements, GT5 can continue to evolve into something Kaz wanted to begin with, along with new concepts inspired by fan reaction and demand. And it will mean ready revenue for SONY, because some of the work done on GT6 can be massaged into GT5 bit by bit. And if you think of it, this board went bonkers over this first offering, even though it wasn't anything earthshaking. Just Spa - well, sure, there is no freaking "just Spa" - a handful of Touring Cars and some trinkets. But clearly the fans ate it up, so with each DLC pack, each Spec improvement, interest will explode, more copies and lots of DLC will get sold, and SONY and Kaz will be happy. And Gran Turismo on Playstation remains alive and well.

If that first DLC had a lackluster reception, GT6 would look more likely, but I really think this means GT6 on PS4. And a GT6 Prologue would be less necessary, because GT5.(whatever) would be it. Of course this is just my speculation, one of the two possibilities, and either one could happen. And as I said, put out GT6 on PS3, and I'm sold, no question. Ultimately, the real decider guy is Kaz, though, so we're at his mercy on this.

So you're willing to spend money on a new console and a game rather than just the game?

Ohhh yes!

 

[GTShadowKing]

I question myself...why don't Kaz just tell which plataform is GT6? Would it be so hard? I'm sure he has already decided...

 

[CorvetteConquer]

I question myself...why don't Kaz just tell which plataform is GT6? Would it be so hard? I'm sure he has already decided...

Because we're talking about Kazunori Yamauchi, who always answers with 'probably', 'might', 'may', 'perhaps', 'not known', etc.

 

[CSLACR]

I thought I'd listen to myself type a bit more, with these two competing views held by Tapey and Snaeper marking the two sides quite distinctly. Since I'm mostly in harmony with Tapey, I'll mull over Snaeper's post.

First, again, PS4. I'd take anything said by SONY execs with a grain or pound of salt. They also said that PS3 was on track for a spring 2006 release in 2005, hoping to cast a long shadow over the upcoming launch of the 360. This console war really is a war between MS and SONY, and tactics and propaganda are playing a big role in it. Of course industry insiders are watching both camps closely for signs of movement, things like ram, optical and hard drive sales, patents and SKU numbers being issued, plant activity, so we'll know ahead of time what both sides are up to. But right now, both are well into development of their respective systems, so anything is possible as far as launch dates. Now for Gran Turismo.

I did indeed say that a purpose built game is better than one that's patched ad nauseum, as GT5 is coming to be. I think everyone is aware of the problems, patches needing patches because of tracks failing to load - or the game itself! - among other issues. No programmer likes to reply on patches because it's harder to have a piece of software be as perfect as one without code stuck in here and there. Just imagine a suit, with patches sewn in at weird spots to get a visual of this.

But fixing GT5 to improve it very much or producing GT6 on PS3 is going to be a problem, either way. Even with the interruptions and things dumped in their laps by SONY, the team had been working on PS3 development and refinement for as much as six-plus years. The GT Engine is pretty mature already on PS3. Making it perform better will require some hoop jumping and compromises. You can do things like cheat, such as having the player's car make the actual sounds as was done in Toca and Forza 4, with the rest of the engine notes and tire screeches being sort of a mixed "soundtrack" which plays a few samples on cue. They could have the non-player cars be greatly reduced Level Of Detail, and do the same thing dynamically for trackside objects, but more so than now. All the cars and trackside objects could have the game reduce detail on them in-game, saving the better models for Photo Mode. The 3D engine could become an optional install, as I advocated. Damage could be reduced to scarring of cars. New content could be culled from the existing GT4 library but improved greatly to "super-Standard" level or something... Optimum level? I'm not sure what to call it, but as yucky as this sounds, it would mean more content sooner.

A number of things could be done, but would Kaz accept them? And would it mean distinct improvement, or just marginally so? Still yucky shaders, still glitchy particle effects on objects, still framerate drops and screen tearing, etc?

I have a feeling that among many fans, news of GT6 in two years on PS3 would mean disappointment for these very reasons, at least for a time, and overall, a bit less enthusiasm. In addition, unless the GT4 assets get improved and ported in, the game will be pretty small. Compared to GT5, it may seem like a big Prologue. Unless the modeling staff is expanded greatly and some additional artists get hired, they won't be able to make more than 150 cars and perhaps 15 tracks, unless they cut way back on the detail.

Another factor is that this bigger team, which I agree is essential, will mean a more expensive Polyphony Digital, and a less profitable GT6. What it might cost is anyone's guess, depending on how many people Kaz sends around the globe to collect data on new cars and tracks, and the licenses SONY will have to pay for. All this means great expense, because those licenses aren't cheap, especially if we happen to be talking about Porsche, and talent of this level is pretty well paid. Especially when you're essentially asking these people to move into PD and live there for years, to one extent or other. 200 more cars and 10 new real world courses could mean $50 million in costs or more over three years. Which I'm sticking to, I don't expect GT6 until early 2014 at the earliest. And a Porsche license from EA? Who knows how much that could cost!

Would we accept a game with reduced in-game detail for slightly better shader and particle effects, a Livery Editor, a better Course Maker, better weather and time of day on all tracks? Some may not like it, and it may get roundly criticized for corner cutting. If they do this for a GT6 to improve it overall, it may get slammed harder than GT5 did. It maybe called "GT5.3" or 5.4 or whatever by the critics. It depends on how apparent it is, and what goodies and features get added in to sweeten the deal. Massively cool features like the Movie Maker just can't be done due to PS3's limited ram, so what else would end up in the discard pile for the next GT?

And ultimately, it depends on whether Kaz and SONY like the idea. Mostly Kaz, of course, because he seems to be able to heroically fend off the dragons of the corporate board years longer than any other first party director could. Just as I posted about those sales forecasts, it depends on how GT5 is looking. Right now, it's hardly on life support. In the game world, Forza 4 made a big splash, but it seems to have affected interest in GT5 very little. While some fans have migrated away, mostly it seems to have given even more passion to demand universal body kits and Race Mod for all the cars, and a powerful Livery Editor. And we're sticking with it, racing on- and offline most every day, convincing friends to pick up a copy, and looking forward to more improvements from PD. This means GT5 is still a revenue stream for SONY, and gives Kaz the authority to keep pursuing improvements on his latest "child."

And where I got the "three year project" notion is from Kaz mentioning in an interview, I think one of the videos, in which he said he really wanted another three years to work on GT5, but it was becoming a distraction and hard on the fans to wait any longer. And SONY was getting angry, obviously. With DLC and Spec improvements, GT5 can continue to evolve into something Kaz wanted to begin with, along with new concepts inspired by fan reaction and demand. And it will mean ready revenue for SONY, because some of the work done on GT6 can be massaged into GT5 bit by bit. And if you think of it, this board went bonkers over this first offering, even though it wasn't anything earthshaking. Just Spa - well, sure, there is no freaking "just Spa" - a handful of Touring Cars and some trinkets. But clearly the fans ate it up, so with each DLC pack, each Spec improvement, interest will explode, more copies and lots of DLC will get sold, and SONY and Kaz will be happy. And Gran Turismo on Playstation remains alive and well.

If that first DLC had a lackluster reception, GT6 would look more likely, but I really think this means GT6 on PS4. And a GT6 Prologue would be less necessary, because GT5.(whatever) would be it. Of course this is just my speculation, one of the two possibilities, and either one could happen. And as I said, put out GT6 on PS3, and I'm sold, no question. Ultimately, the real decider guy is Kaz, though, so we're at his mercy on this.


Ohhh yes!

I think you're putting to much stake in the DLC sales.
What's 1 million right now, would be much more if it were for a newly released game, we both know that, and so does PD.
I don't think this is directly financial in that sense though. I think it boils down to, can PD afford to make everyone wait another 5 years for another game? My answer is a resounding no.
BTW, the only thing I read is that Kaz wanted another 2 years to make GT5. Just saying.

I have a feeling that among many fans, news of GT6 in two years on PS3 would mean disappointment for these very reasons, at least for a time, and overall, a bit less enthusiasm. In addition, unless the GT4 assets get improved and ported in, the game will be pretty small. Compared to GT5, it may seem like a big Prologue. Unless the modeling staff is expanded greatly and some additional artists get hired, they won't be able to make more than 150 cars and perhaps 15 tracks, unless they cut way back on the detail.

That's on top of what's good enough to transport from GT5 though.
And TBH, that's what GT5 should have been from the start, like GT3.

But since PD mucked up GT5 is so many ways, how is delaying GT6 to be "super GT of all" going to help? GT5 was going to be the greatest thing ever, and for all intents and purposes, without updates, it completely sucked. The worst GT game ever for it's time, imo.
So unless people still believe the hype, it's foolhardy to delay GT6 for PS4.

I question myself...why don't Kaz just tell which plataform is GT6? Would it be so hard? I'm sure he has already decided...

And this sums my reply to TD as well.

If PD announces GT6 will be PS4, we all instantly know it's going to be another lifetime.

If PD is afraid to announce it(for backlash), then it's probably not a smart move, is it?

 

[Snaeper]

First, again, PS4. I'd take anything said by SONY execs with a grain or pound of salt. They also said that PS3 was on track for a spring 2006 release in 2005, hoping to cast a long shadow over the upcoming launch of the 360.

Sure! But here's the thing: Until someone can prove otherwise, that's all we have to go off right now, so it's silly to assume anything else until Sony or another trusted source gives us reason to believe they're lying.

This console war really is a war between MS and SONY, and tactics and propaganda are playing a big role in it. Of course industry insiders are watching both camps closely for signs of movement, things like ram, optical and hard drive sales, patents and SKU numbers being issued, plant activity, so we'll know ahead of time what both sides are up to.

Well I haven't heard much from these camps, so I assume nothing is going on with Sony or Microsoft.

But right now, both are well into development of their respective systems, so anything is possible as far as launch dates.

Source?

But fixing GT5 to improve it very much or producing GT6 on PS3 is going to be a problem, either way.

So now you're saying that even if they make DLC or a whole game, it's going to be problematic anyways? Why not just try for the full game?

Even with the interruptions and things dumped in their laps by SONY, the team had been working on PS3 development and refinement for as much as six-plus years. The GT Engine is pretty mature already on PS3.

You're right, wouldn't it be a damned shame for them to spend all that time working on the PS3 only to release one game showing the fruits of their labour... unless they released a second game to profit off of their hard work.

Making it perform better will require some hoop jumping and compromises.

How do you know? What if it doesn't? What if PD is playing the wounded animal only for everyone else to realize that there's still more to go to make the PS3 work well with their game? Colorful words my friend, colorful words.

You can do things like cheat, such as having the player's car make the actual sounds as was done in Toca and Forza 4, with the rest of the engine notes and tire screeches being sort of a mixed "soundtrack" which plays a few samples on cue. They could have the non-player cars be greatly reduced Level Of Detail, and do the same thing dynamically for trackside objects, but more so than now. All the cars and trackside objects could have the game reduce detail on them in-game, saving the better models for Photo Mode. The 3D engine could become an optional install, as I advocated. Damage could be reduced to scarring of cars. New content could be culled from the existing GT4 library but improved greatly to "super-Standard" level or something... Optimum level? I'm not sure what to call it, but as yucky as this sounds, it would mean more content sooner.

Why on earth would they intentionally handicap their game, though?

A number of things could be done, but would Kaz accept them? And would it mean distinct improvement, or just marginally so? Still yucky shaders, still glitchy particle effects on objects, still framerate drops and screen tearing, etc?

He wouldn't accept negative things. He would accept positive improvements.

I have a feeling that among many fans, news of GT6 in two years on PS3 would mean disappointment for these very reasons, at least for a time, and overall, a bit less enthusiasm.

Well, I remember being around before GT5 was released and I imagine it will be more like that and less "Awwh they're making another GT game."

Another factor is that this bigger team, which I agree is essential, will mean a more expensive Polyphony Digital, and a less profitable GT6. What it might cost is anyone's guess, depending on how many people Kaz sends around the globe to collect data on new cars and tracks, and the licenses SONY will have to pay for. All this means great expense, because those licenses aren't cheap, especially if we happen to be talking about Porsche, and talent of this level is pretty well paid. Especially when you're essentially asking these people to move into PD and live there for years, to one extent or other. 200 more cars and 10 new real world courses could mean $50 million in costs or more over three years. Which I'm sticking to, I don't expect GT6 until early 2014 at the earliest. And a Porsche license from EA? Who knows how much that could cost!

Well thank goodness for this then

...and as I said, the DLC makes GT5 just too profitable.

All that DLC sold certainly makes Sony and PD a pretty chunk of change to fund their endeavors. But as nice as one million copies of DLC sold at ~$15 a pop sounds, 6 million copies sold at $60 sounds even better. And that's only the 2010 numbers.

Would we accept a game with reduced in-game detail for slightly better shader and particle effects, a Livery Editor, a better Course Maker, better weather and time of day on all tracks? Some may not like it, and it may get roundly criticized for corner cutting. If they do this for a GT6 to improve it overall, it may get slammed harder than GT5 did. It maybe called "GT5.3" or 5.4 or whatever by the critics. It depends on how apparent it is, and what goodies and features get added in to sweeten the deal. Massively cool features like the Movie Maker just can't be done due to PS3's limited ram, so what else would end up in the discard pile for the next GT?

Where you determine your facts is puzzling me. Who says another game on PS3 would have reduced in game detail? Why would they reduce anything? This is GT5 with even more features. Forza gets away with releasing a new game every year and they add even less content to the titles. The graphics remain stable or are improved upon.

And ultimately, it depends on whether Kaz and SONY like the idea. Mostly Kaz, of course, because he seems to be able to heroically fend off the dragons of the corporate board years longer than any other first party director could. Just as I posted about those sales forecasts, it depends on how GT5 is looking. Right now, it's hardly on life support. In the game world, Forza 4 made a big splash, but it seems to have affected interest in GT5 very little. While some fans have migrated away, mostly it seems to have given even more passion to demand universal body kits and Race Mod for all the cars, and a powerful Livery Editor. And we're sticking with it, racing on- and offline most every day, convincing friends to pick up a copy, and looking forward to more improvements from PD. This means GT5 is still a revenue stream for SONY, and gives Kaz the authority to keep pursuing improvements on his latest "child."

Right now is not the problem. Four years from now will tell a different story. Assuming DLC continues on the path that this first batch has suggested it will take (tracks, cars and trinkets, which is better to assume this than them adding in loads of features, which I'm not saying isn't possible, I'm just saying it's silly to assume it with no evidence to suggest it would happen), would you still want to be playing Gran Turismo 5? Remember, only cars and tracks have been added for four years and you've had to pay 15$ a pop to get them for four years. Assuming it's every two months, which would then be a total of 24 months, you've now paid 360$ for DLC on a game that's four years old and not aging slowly.

And where I got the "three year project" notion is from Kaz mentioning in an interview, I think one of the videos, in which he said he really wanted another three years to work on GT5, but it was becoming a distraction and hard on the fans to wait any longer.

I found one article where he said that he had wished he had another two years to work on the game. Never mentioned anything about those two years turning into upgrading the game. I linked the article in one of my last posts.

And SONY was getting angry, obviously. With DLC and Spec improvements, GT5 can continue to evolve into something Kaz wanted to begin with, along with new concepts inspired by fan reaction and demand. And it will mean ready revenue for SONY, because some of the work done on GT6 can be massaged into GT5 bit by bit.

It's a shame that the Spec improvements, which are the only thing that could potentially bring new features to the game, are usually given out free. Both in Prologue and in GT5. So if they decided to start charging, I'd imagine the reaction wouldn't be positive.

And if you think of it, this board went bonkers over this first offering, even though it wasn't anything earthshaking. Just Spa - well, sure, there is no freaking "just Spa" - a handful of Touring Cars and some trinkets.

... and then they found out it was linked to the purchasing account.
... and then they found out that the cars didn't even have the available parts.
... and then they moaned about how they wanted real cars instead of "cars that were already in the game."

They went the bad kind of bonkers, yes.

But clearly the fans ate it up, so with each DLC pack, each Spec improvement, interest will explode, more copies and lots of DLC will get sold, and SONY and Kaz will be happy. And Gran Turismo on Playstation remains alive and well.

No, there's no growing. There's stable, maybe. But there's not going to be a lot of growing. This DLC isn't lighting everyone's pants on fire, regardless of how many copies they've sold.

Also, "Gran Turismo" on "Playstation" will always be alive and well. Gran Turismo 5 on the Playstation 3 for four years will die.


I'm still baffled that Four Years is such an insignificant amount of time to you.

 

[CSLACR]

It's nice having someone say everything for me.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The problem here, for PD and Sony is they put themselves behind the eight ball with PS3 and GT5.

PS3 was way late, and GT5 was too little, too late.

Ever since they've been playing catch up and IMO, are still way behind.

Now, MS and Nintendo intend to release new consoles at the end of next year, forcing Sony into another frantic round of catch up.

As far as GT6, based on PD's most recent dev time verses game quality quotient, I think for it to be on PS4, lends more likelihood of PD producing a truly better game, in keeping with the prior GT standards.

Unless they delay the PS4 considerably, I can't imagine getting anything more than a warmed over GT5 on PS3.
This would be a potentially disastrous situation.

Delaying the PS4 is my guess, since they have finally sold enough PS3s to have a decent volume of game sales.

In this scenario, its a toss up on what GT6 might be.

 

[vandaliser]

Forza? That boat has sunk long ago. All the hype and reviews proclaiming it as the pinacle of motorsport simulation made not a difference. Still pales into insignificance against GT. alot of people are going to get annoyed by me saying this but good bloody riddance. Every where you went all one heard was Forza is going to destroy GT and the king is dead yadda yadda. Well the king is still the king and he will be slapping you this generation non stop

I cant help but laugh at CSLR saying waiting for GT6 on the ps4 will spell the death kneel for the series. Launching a new GT game on brand new hardware automatically generates hype. Remember the craziness when prologue was first revealed?

Anyways GT is the only series where the developers can get into a long dev cycle without alienating their fanbase. Just like Valve.

It's called loyalty and PD has earned it over the years.


And Where one developer feels the need to release 3 games in one single generation others feel one is enough to leave their imprint.

PD should just give us TT and omega boost. Then start GT6 for PS4. GT5 is currently finished in my opinion apart from few things which i am not bothered about.

I need new cars and new tracks as DLC. So PD can release them periodically. Keep a small sub team for that. Please kaz give us a new omega boost and TT2

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Forza? That boat has sunk long ago. All the hype and reviews proclaiming it as the pinacle of motorsport simulation made not a difference. Still pales into insignificance against GT.

Anyways GT is the only series where the developers can get into a long dev cycle without alienating their fanbase. Just like Valve.

It's called loyalty and PD has earned it over the years.


Where one developer feels the need to release 3 games in one single generation others feel one is enough to leave their imprint.

PD should just give us TT and omega boost. Then start GT6 for PS4

You make it sound like PD wanted to just release one game...we could name off the games that were made during the GT5 5-6 year process that is still on going. GT6 has probably been going on for a while now (hence the move of staff to the newer location) and they've probably watched the feedback to see what made the fans tick and what didn't and that is what GT6 will be. However, GT5 doesn't show any true appreciation of the customers per say, but more so a catch up with all simulators for the most part.

I like the gt series myself, but will not buy the collectors edition when GT6 rolls around.

 

[CSLACR]

Forza? That boat has sunk long ago. All the hype and reviews proclaiming it as the pinacle of motorsport simulation made not a difference. Still pales into insignificance against GT. alot of people are going to get annoyed by me saying this but good bloody riddance. Every where you went all one heard was Forza is going to destroy GT and the king is dead yadda yadda. Well the king is still the king and he will be slapping you this generation non stop

I cant help but laugh at CSLR saying waiting for GT6 on the ps4 will spell the death kneel for the series. Launching a new GT game on brand new hardware automatically generates hype. Remember the craziness when prologue was first revealed?

Anyways GT is the only series where the developers can get into a long dev cycle without alienating their fanbase. Just like Valve.

It's called loyalty and PD has earned it over the years.


And Where one developer feels the need to release 3 games in one single generation others feel one is enough to leave their imprint.

PD should just give us TT and omega boost. Then start GT6 for PS4. GT5 is currently finished in my opinion apart from few things which i am not bothered about.

I need new cars and new tracks as DLC. So PD can release them periodically. Keep a small sub team for that. Please kaz give us a new omega boost and TT2

Actually we just get tired of hearing stupid rants about how GT5 is the bestest ever, especially from people that repeat it even when it's not the proper place to discuss GT5 vs other games.

As for the rest, if you believe releasing a game every 5 years will pass over, you're entitled to that opinion. With the blind bias you show towards GT in every sense possible, your opinion on these matters is worth nothing to anyone that doesn't believe that Sony/PD/GT are this invincible mountain of awesomeness that can do whatever they want, and suffer no consequences.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear you say PD could pull off a hit 2020 release of GT6P. With GT6 releasing on PS8 in 2030.
That's how you define yourself, through your words.

 

[vandaliser]

Actually we just get tired of hearing stupid rants about how GT5 is the bestest ever, especially from people that repeat it even when it's not the proper place to discuss GT5 vs other games.

As for the rest, if you believe releasing a game every 5 years will pass over, you're entitled to that opinion. With the blind bias you show towards GT in every sense possible, your opinion on these matters is worth nothing to anyone that doesn't believe that Sony/PD/GT are this invincible mountain of awesomeness that can do whatever they want, and suffer no consequences.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear you say PD could pull off a hit 2020 release of GT6P. With GT6 releasing on PS8 in 2030.
That's how you define yourself, through your words.

Dude relax. Why you so mad everytime someone takes a dump on forza? Insecure much?

As for the second part, i think you have reached the overblown zone. 2030? Sony/PD/ GT awesomness? I detect alot of angst in there.

The fact of the matter is PD can wait another 5 years if they so wish and it will not make a single difference to console sim market. The pinnacle of motorsport simulation has done a bomba. No more massive chest beating and crowing these days. Did you hear that? That's the sound of Kaz laughing in the background as Translator san mentions Forza 4 sales.

Okay i will stop now. But seriously though you may not wait for another five years but millions of other people will wait for the next GT game whether it's on the ps3 or ps4.

 

[CSLACR]

Dude relax. Why you so mad everytime someone takes a dump on forza? Insecure much?

As for the second part, i think you have reached the overblown zone. 2030? Sony/PD/ GT awesomness? I detect alot of angst in there.

The fact of the matter is PD can wait another 5 years if they so wish and it will not make a single difference to console sim market. The pinnacle of motorsport simulation has done a bomba. No more massive chest beating and crowing these days. Did you hear that? That's the sound of Kaz laughing in the background as Translator san mentions Forza 4 sales.

Okay i will stop now. But seriously though you may not wait for another five years but millions of other people will wait for the next GT game whether it's on the ps3 or ps4.

I missed your point through the haze.

BTW, you seem to forget I've never even played a FM game, except 30 seconds at a Gamestop on the crappy XBOX controller.

Finally, you should understand not everyone posts on GTP, let alone this thread. Not even every member that cares about this subject posts here, not by a long shot.
My thoughts on GT6 delays represent a portion of all GT5 buyers, the question really is, what percentage?
And yes, the same for yours. But as you've clearly said, PD doesn't have to worry about you, you'll be buying GT forever, right?


Racing games take 90+% of my gaming time, particularly racing sims. I don't have money to buy everything, and I want a new game more often then every 5 years. (Preferably every 2-3 years at least)
Now, assume GT6 will take 5 years, meaning the best Sony/PD can offer me is 1 game every 5 years, what do you recommend I buy?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Dude relax. Why you so mad everytime someone takes a dump on forza? Insecure much?

As for the second part, i think you have reached the overblown zone. 2030? Sony/PD/ GT awesomness? I detect alot of angst in there.

The fact of the matter is PD can wait another 5 years if they so wish and it will not make a single difference to console sim market. The pinnacle of motorsport simulation has done a bomba. No more massive chest beating and crowing these days. Did you hear that? That's the sound of Kaz laughing in the background as Translator san mentions Forza 4 sales.

Okay i will stop now. But seriously though you may not wait for another five years but millions of other people will wait for the next GT game whether it's on the ps3 or ps4.

Truth is no one is sitting around waiting like a dog for a bone, the diehard fans might be. The average player will move on and when they hear GT6 is coming out they'll buy it. Casual gamers dont wait for a certain game, they move on with life and buy the next game that they think is cool. To say people wait for a GT game makes PD sound far too important than they really are. However, I find it adorable that PD have inspired you! They should be proud.

 

[CSLACR]

Truth is no one is sitting around waiting like a dog for a bone, the diehard fans might be. The average player will move on and when they hear GT6 is coming out they'll buy it. Casual gamers dont wait for a certain game, they move on with life and buy the next game that they think is cool. To say people wait for a GT game makes PD sound far too important than they really are. However, I find it adorable that PD have inspired you! They should be proud.

I am.

Racing games take 90+% of my gaming time, particularly racing sims. I don't have money to buy everything, and I want a new game more often then every 5 years. (Preferably every 2-3 years at least)
Now, assume GT6 will take 5 years, meaning the best Sony/PD can offer me is 1 game every 5 years, what do you recommend I buy?

Whoever feeds me best gets my love and constant barking at inappropriate times.

But there's a serious point in there.

 

[Tornado]

Dude relax. Why you so mad everytime someone takes a dump on forza?

It would help if the person who keeps going out of his way to do so had an opinion worth listening to regarding the subject.

 

[Tapey]

I think it would be wise for people to not assume GT6 on PS4 means a 5 year wait.

To put things into perspective, GT5 was released at the end of 2010 yes? There is a very strong possibility that Microsoft and Sony will be announcing the Xbox 720 (or whatever it's called) and the PS4 in 2012, with releases likely to be in 2013.

Given that PD have pushed their engine on the PS3 to the absolute limit, they're not going to squeeze any more performance and power out of it unless they cut corners (this is what Forza does, lowering track detail, swapping out cars for low-poly models, optimizing the lighting engine etc) to try and get more in there. Anything like better cosmetic damage and a livery editor would be an absolute nightmare to integrate on the PS3 because features like those would actually require a good chunk of extra system resources.

So what are their options? They could release a GT6 on PS3 with some minor improvements (more cars, tracks, bigger A-Spec) but that's about it. They then risk a repeat of the PS3 launch however which they absolutely do not want at all. On the other hand, they could take the GT5 engine and content, port it onto the new hardware and get it up and running so that they can push out GT6 on PS4 for sometime in 2013, 3 years after the release of GT5. They get the bonus of the game running at a rock solid 60fps, plenty of resources to finally implement a livery editor, complex cosmetic damage and all the other luxeries afforded by having significantly better hardware to play around with.

Of course, this is all based off the assumption that Sony gets the PS4 out in 2013 but all signs point to that being the year when we see new consoles from Microsoft and Sony on store shelves. My money is on them unveiling the PS4 at E3 next year, and aiming to have a launch lineup consisting of Uncharted 4 and Gran Turismo 6 ready to really make a big impact and gobble up as much market share as possible. That gives both PD and Naughty dog 3 years each to work on something for launch (which sounds about right given the average dev cycle for a game) rather than wasting one of their biggest developers working on a game that at best will launch on old hardware at the same time their brand new console hits stores.

Sony knows how important it was having Gran Turismo 3 releasing a few months after the launch of the PS2, they also know it was the best selling game in the series and skyrocketed the PS2 to a ridiculously high adoption rate. Honestly, I think that by the time they finish work on GT6 it will be too late in the PS3's lifecycle, and they'd be making the same mistake that they made with GT4.