Latin American Caravan(s) Headed for Southern U.S. Border

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It was never mader really clear, but what era is Trump referring to about with MAGA. And did that era have strict policies against legal/illegal immigration.

How should I know, I didn't ever buy into a campaign slogan or any other POTUS campaign slogans and people who do buy into them and then see them beyond just a pick up line have only themselves to blame. Also again as I've said the road for his policies were paved by the previous Presidents all he's done differently is be a loud mouth about it where others weren't so much or at all.

I feel you're still trying to peg a person rather than the landscape, which is why you keep getting issues from Penso and the like. You could be objective about it more so.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It was never mader really clear, but what era is Trump referring to about with MAGA. And did that era have strict policies against legal/illegal immigration?

I'd guess he probably means the same thing as other Presidents meant when they said the exact same words and no one freaked out about it because their last name wasn't Trump:





FYI Illegal immigration has always been illegal and legal immigration to the United States has not been easy for a long, long time. National immigration quotas were first established 90 years ago.

 

[PocketZeven]

How should I know, I didn't ever buy into a campaign slogan or any other POTUS campaign slogans and people who do buy into them and then see them beyond just a pick up line have only themselves to blame. Also again as I've said the road for his policies were paved by the previous Presidents all he's done differently is be a loud mouth about it where others weren't so much or at all.

I feel you're still trying to peg a person rather than the landscape, which is why you keep getting issues from Penso and the like. You could be objective about it more so.

Sorry I didnt want to put you on the spot or anything like that. I am not assuming you know. But perhaps you might have had that knowledge, being an american. I fully understand what you are explaining about the road being paved, because the situation is similar inother places in the world, where some countries have gone the way of populism. Brazil, turkey, Poland, Brexit have all seen the same popularity for populism. Even in Germany, Sweden, the Netherlands and France have seen have seen a sharp rise in support in recen years for populism or as Trump calls it "Nationalism".

I dont have that much problem with anyone here on this forum except maybe JohnnyP. I have always been very honest upfront in me being Anti-Trump and honestly cannot be objective concerning him. But that absolutely doesnt mean that I am left/liberal.

I'd guess he probably means the same thing as other Presidents meant when they said the exact same words and no one freaked out about it because their last name wasn't Trump:





FYI Illegal immigration has always been illegal and legal immigration to the United States has not been easy for a long, long time. National immigration quotas were first established 90 years ago.

Mr. whataboutism at it again. I specifically asked what Trump means, not what other presidents mean. I am judging the actions of Trump and in this instance not comparing him to other Presidents. I am not criticizing the Slogan or freaking out, I am asking the meaning of it in Trump's mind. I am sure his vision of what MAGA means is different from any other President.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Mr. whataboutism at it again. I specifically asked what Trump means, not what other presidents mean. I am judging the actions of Trump and in this instance not comparing him to other Presidents. I am not criticizing the Slogan or freaking out, I am asking the meaning of it in Trump's mind. I am sure his vision of what MAGA means is different from any other President.

Wooosh. It's a campaign slogan, used in various forms by other Presidents over the decades. It refers to economic prosperity, unity, low unemployment, peace, opportunity, you know, all the things everyone wants, or at least most of us and all of the things that all Presidental candidates promise leading up to elections. This one just happened to be marketed much better and continue on after the election. I'm sure if you dig deep enough some late night comedians will have a different and more nefarious take on it like a fascist plot..or something.

 

[PocketZeven]

Wooosh. It's a campaign slogan, used in various forms by other Presidents over the decades. It refers to economic prosperity, unity, low unemployment, peace, opportunity, you know, all the things everyone wants, or at least most of us and all of the things that all Presidental candidates promise leading up to elections. This one just happened to be marketed much better and continue on after the election. I'm sure if you dig deep enough some late night comedians will have a different and more nefarious take on it like a fascist plot..or something.

Thank you that is a good explanation. There is no era that the Slogan is referring to for Trump.

 

[Joey D]

I'll take things I don't understand for $200 Alex.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-ca...each-us-50000-turn-around-and-go-home-1255043

Some of the caravan wants $50,000 to leave? I can appreciate wanting asylum in the US, but I can't appreciate what amounts to extortion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'll take things I don't understand for $200 Alex.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-ca...each-us-50000-turn-around-and-go-home-1255043

Some of the caravan wants $50,000 to leave? I can appreciate wanting asylum in the US, but I can't appreciate what amounts to extortion.

The entire march from beginning to end was extortion. This is merely the cherry on top.

 

[PocketZeven]

I'll take things I don't understand for $200 Alex.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-ca...each-us-50000-turn-around-and-go-home-1255043

Some of the caravan wants $50,000 to leave? I can appreciate wanting asylum in the US, but I can't appreciate what amounts to extortion.

Bit of a misleading header though. It is reported in the article only a group of around 100 that started making that demand. The title suggest the whole caravan is demanding money. A group of 100 out of the reportedly 7000+ is only 1.4%.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Bit of a misleading header though. It is reported in the article only a group of around 100 that started making that demand. The title suggest the whole caravan is demanding money. A group of 100 out of the reportedly 7000+ is only 1.4%.

Do you think they are asking for $50k only for the 100 or for the whole caravan?

 

[PocketZeven]

Do you think they are asking for $50k only for the 100 or for the whole caravan?

The article does not say. Only that a group of around 100 made the demand. You can speculate, but dont make assumptions.

 

[zzz_pt]

I'll take things I don't understand for $200 Alex.

https://www.newsweek.com/migrant-ca...each-us-50000-turn-around-and-go-home-1255043

Some of the caravan wants $50,000 to leave? I can appreciate wanting asylum in the US, but I can't appreciate what amounts to extortion.

This is one of the stupidiest things I've read this week. And I've been on reddit for a couple of times...

 

[Johnnypenso]

The article does not say. Only that a group of around 100 made the demand. You can speculate, but dont make assumptions.

I read the article. I asked you a question.

 

[PocketZeven]

I read the article. I asked you a question.

No idea. Like I said, the article does not say.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No idea. Like I said, the article does not say.

So when someone says, "Do you think....", you look to an article for the answer?

 

[TexRex]

This is one of the stupidiest things I've read this week.

D'oh!



I mean...I get that it's a typo, but it's just so hilariously unfortunate that it occurred then and there.

So when someone says, "Do you think....", you look to an article for the answer?

So someone is supposed to form an opinion without sufficient information with which to support it? All we can say with confidence is that Alfonso Guerrero Ulloa of Honduras wants $50,000 to leave, and anything else is speculation. The article actually goes as far as saying the ultimatum was outlined in a letter, but doesn't offer up the letter for review.

 

[PocketZeven]

So when someone says, "Do you think....", you look to an article for the answer?

Dont start up something again. Please use you brain. I havent spoken to any of the caravan nor have I found other reports then the San diego union-tribune article all the sources are referring to. Why would I make assumptions with such a serious accusation, without the facts?

Without said article you wouldnt have even asked me the question. So yes, the article is the only thing that can provide a real answer at the moment, based of the question that was asked based on the artivle and sadly for you it doesnt.

 

[huskeR32]

Why would I make assumptions with such a serious accusation, without the facts?

For some folks, that's all they know.

 

[McLaren]

Do you think they are asking for $50k only for the 100 or for the whole caravan?

Who cares? You don’t get to go to another country’s border and demand money to go away, nor do you claim that country is making you suffer bc you fled another country and have to wait to be processed.

The whole article is stupid and so are the people who made the demands.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Who cares? You don’t get to go to another country’s border and demand money to go away, nor do you claim that country is making you suffer bc you fled another country and have to wait to be processed.

The whole article is stupid and so are the people who made the demands.

How do you really feel? And yes, I agree. It was a ludicrous demand but I suppose they were taking the slim chance that one of the open borders supporters might through a few shillings their way.

 

[the_boy]

Trump has a zero tolerance policy on illegal immigration (which is a misdemeanor), Obama offered amnesty (like Regan & other non thin skinned presidents). The thin skin also wants to reduce sponsorships because “others”, lol.

 

[Novalee]

If you are from the marshall islands it is a easy as getting on a plane , no visa no nothing needed .

If you work on a commericial fishing boat you can docj anywhere in usa and as long as you do not get off the boat your fine . Do not need any visa .


List goes on . Trump has a problem with brown skinned folks from central america , south america . It is just that simple .




Then there is this for contrast.

Before he leaves office in January, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) wants to give Irish citizens access to thousands of unused U.S. work visas.

Under the E-3 program, a total of 10,500 visas are allotted exclusively to Australia, but with new legislation pushed by Ryan, Irish nationals would have access to any that are unused.

Thats from huffpost but lots of other outlets with same story.

For all we know the ira is being let in with zero vetting. Get ready for things to blow up

 

[Tornado]

The IRA is going to blow stuff up in the country the IRA infamously used as a rolling telethon so they could better afford to blow stuff up in the country they actually had a problem with; 20 years after the IRA largely stopped blowing stuff up anywhere?

 

[Novalee]

The IRA is going to blow stuff up in the country the IRA infamously used as a rolling telethon so they could better afford to blow stuff up in the country they actually had a problem with; 20 years after the IRA largely stopped blowing stuff up anywhere?

The point was letting people in with no vetting and also how much of a smokescreen the whole idea of legal non legal new commers are . It is just a matter of who ever the speaker is taking up the cause for his or hers pet country .

 

[Northstar]

For all we know the ira is being let in with zero vetting. Get ready for things to blow up

In order to qualify for the E-3 program you have to have a bachelor's degree as well as a job offer in a "specialty" field. Of course even if you do get approved for the E-3 program, you still have to go through the normal visa program. Granted it's certainly possible for a terry to go through all that just to cause trouble somewhere, but I'd imagine the odds are rather slim.

 

[Tornado]

The point was letting people in with no vetting

By the second sentence it's clear that's not what your link explaining the E-3 Program shows.

and also how much of a smokescreen the whole idea of legal non legal new commers are

Do illegal immigrants frequently get work visas in specialty fields like the E-3 Program allots so they can get paid under the table to do construction work or work in factories/farms or what have you?


Perhaps your answer to that question can help me, too, since I'm not sure where the "contrast" actually comes into play. The contrast between Paul Ryan's opinions on educated Irish nationals applying for unused-but-already-alloted work visas (and supposedly leading to reciprocation in Ireland for American nationals) currently only available to educated Australian nationals, and the Hispanic illegal rapist immigrant boogeyman the GOP talks about to scare their base? Sure, I can see that. You probably won't even get that many people in this thread who are surprised by Paul Ryan being a hypocrite when it suits him to be.
But since Ryan's proposal died a swift death in the Senate for basically the same reason that people usually rally with against immigration from south of the US (except in the interest of protecting educated young people instead of the usual flyover country ones), I'm not sure how different the actual popular sentiment is on immigration into the US for the purposes of work beyond that one specific guy angling for a future ambassador position.

It is just a matter of who ever the speaker is taking up the cause for his or hers pet country .

Certainly. Perhaps a better comparison could have been in that context instead of talking about the IRA terrorizing the people they relied on for funding and armament when they still operated (over twenty years ago).

Even though it's one of the better countries in the region Mexico is kind of a dump that people are justified fleeing from to seek asylum in the US. Regardless of Trump's (in particular) nasty rhetoric about immigrants, the concerns about the people the immigrants are fleeing also making their way into the US seem a lot more justified then a bunch of Irish engineers or teachers using work visas that still need to be approved as a cover to restart The Troubles on the other side of the ocean.

 

[Novalee]

Degrees do not mean a thing though. Most of the 9/11 masterminds had university educations . Lots of the leaders in bin ladens crew were highly educated.

Lots of isil leaders were are uni educated.

It would be different if USA officials were going to ireland to check them out un person but it is not how it works .

 

[Northstar]

Degrees do not mean a thing though. Most of the 9/11 masterminds had university educations . Lots of the leaders in bin ladens crew were highly educated.

Of the 19 hijackers, 9 had no college history, 7 had some but didn't graduate and 3 actually graduated. Of those 3, one had a degree in urban planning, one had a teaching degree and taught Elementary school PE and the third had an aeronautical engineering degree. Granted "specialty field" is a rather ambiguous term, but I'm guessing elementary school PE teacher isn't one and urban planner probably isn't. So a whopping 1 9/11 hijacker may have qualified for the E-3 program.

It would be different if USA officials were going to ireland to check them out un person but it is not how it works .

Actually, it is, since you have to go to a U.S. embassy or consulate to get the visa.

 

[Biggles]

Of the 19 hijackers, 9 had no college history, 7 had some but didn't graduate and 3 actually graduated. Of those 3, one had a degree in urban planning, one had a teaching degree and taught Elementary school PE and the third had an aeronautical engineering degree. Granted "specialty field" is a rather ambiguous term, but I'm guessing elementary school PE teacher isn't one and urban planner probably isn't. So a whopping 1 9/11 hijacker may have qualified for the E-3 program.

Am I missing something here?

Eligibility Criteria
To qualify for an E-3 visa, you must demonstrate that you:

• Are a national of Australia

 

[Tornado]

It would be different if USA officials were going to ireland to check them out un person but it is not how it works .

I'm still missing the part where the US has any reason to suspect that the IRA was going to revitalize itself after a 20 year ceasefire, set up shop halfway across the world in areas full of people who had been supporting them when they were fighting, and then start blowing things up like they had before except in a country that didn't actually control what they were fighting for. At that point, yes, the US might need to go and make absolutely sure that they aren't admitting Irish national Seamus O'Laden into the country under a work visa saying he is an art teacher when his real plan is to blow up an airport.
And is Ireland just lousy with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists? Have they taken over the IRA in the intervening years? Because I could see the US taking a bit of a pause then; and that's the only reason I can think you'd bring up the 9/11 hijackers, the Taliban or ISIS.


In comparison, the US does have reason to believe that the people that have been in open shooting matches with the Mexican government for the past decade may try to make their way into the US; because everyone knows they've already been doing that for the purposes of drug running and other nasty things to the extent that a feel good boondoggle of a wall won't stop them. It's not hard to reconcile that with the belief that the border wall is stupid, or that Trump's talks about it have been hopelessly toxic and disparaging, that the way this refugee thing has been handled is pathetic, or that politicians in Congress falling in lockstep with Trump may be doing it for self-serving reasons.

 

[Northstar]

Am I missing something here?

Yes, the part where you read the last 7 posts so you know what people are talking about.