This December it will be 7 years since we had a Numbered game from PD, so we will enjoy a full game from them.
Launch Title..?
- Thread starter xhannibalx
- 84 comments
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- 87,536
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Here, the word "so" means that everything before it is the reason for everything after it happening. How will "7 years have passed since the last numbered GT game" cause PD to release a numbered GT game?
It won't. The passage of time is not a causative for anything other than the purchase of new calendars. What you're doing isn't reasoning.
- 13,907
- Adelaide
- Neomone
They're probably not trying, but it wouldn't be the first time it's happened. Even if they had said in plain, unambiguous language "GT7 will be releasing at the same time as PS5", there would be reasonable grounds to doubt that based on the history of pretty much every Gran Turismo game in the last twenty years. I don't think they do it on purpose, but Polyphony is remarkably consistent at being staggeringly optimistic with release dates.
And if it's difficult to take Polyphony at face value on clear statements about dates, reading anything into implications and nuance in tweets just seems like wishful thinking more than anything else.
I take the opposite view. Sony got out ahead of time to make it clear Horizon FW was a 2021 title (Q2?). With a short feature within days of the showcase. The Miles Morales boxart was a preview with no further game details.
I don’t think we saw any 1st party titles that are more than 12 months away. With no details about launch titles. In August there are hints we’ll see stuff a little further along the line. Maybe the rumoured Silent Hills or Uncharted reboot.
- 40,857
That's fine, but you're still wrong. We in fact do know more about other games shown off than we do Gran Turismo 7.
We can even make a reasonable inference that one of them, the one that Sony has given people post-announcement information on and has given box art for (the first PS5 game to get it, in fact) and has given a release date that is identical to the vague one Sony has given for when they hope to release the PS5, is almost certainly a launch game.
I'm sure people who bought PSPs in 2004, PS3s in 2006 and PS4s in 2015 wish you had told PD that.
Incidentally, I imagine Sony plans on releasing the PS5 before June 2021.
This thread specifically is also about a game with no box art, no given release date, no real press interaction beyond the trailer and being made by a studio with two decades of blowing through release dates even when hard dates are given and even when they've shown far more to the public than the 3 minute trailer you're claiming to be proof of how close it is to completion; sometimes by years.
Maybe Sony will miracle a release date out of their ass in August to coincide with the PS5 launch at the end of the year. Maybe PD will even miracle the game out in time for that release date. Unprecedented things can happen. But other games being given release dates of next year isn't proof they will. Other games not being given release dates at all isn't proof they will. Sony having an event in August where they will announce more stuff isn't proof they will. Sony being confident that the system launch will be a success certainlyiisn't proof they will (nevermind that they've never been able to rely on PD for that before).
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There are no guarantees. We can have a best guess based on info & dev timelines.
Many insisted it was crazy talk to think PD would be at the PS5 showcase. I don’t know why. Late ‘20 is a perfectly reasonable timeline for the next GT. We also know Sony moved development focus to PS5 late ‘17/‘18. So we where never getting another GT on PS4.
R&C was rumoured to be the final AAA 1st party PS4 title in development. It was moved to PS5. Bluepoint’s Demon Souls is another title that’s been in development for over 3 years.
Alongside Returnal and LBP. All heavily rumoured PS5 launch window games. Not one has yet been previewed by the press, let alone hands on, or given a release date. The same can be said of MS’s rumoured launch window titles.
We don’t need any summer miracles. Sony will already have their PS5 price point. Their pre-order date. Launch date. Launch window titles. Marketing campaign etc.
So take your guesses as to what Sony’s launch window line-up will be. Because I’ve yet to hear any convincing theory as to why GT7 will not be in that batch. It’s important to know where PD & Sony stand in 2020. Not what happened half a decade or more ago.
As a footnote. I’ve said previously, I believe Sony very purposely described Miles Morales, as a Holiday title. The game appears set at Christmas time. Would be a great title to release around Black Friday/early December.
- 13,907
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Because Polyphony have never hit a launch window for a console before. Ever.
I don't see that anything has changed with Polyphony that they'll start banging out releases on schedule now. You can say that it's important to know were Polyphony stands in 2020, but can you explain what's different now than in 2000, 2006 and 2013 that means that it's not likely to happen again?
When there is historical precedent like Polyphony has, it seems like the onus is on you to prove that your hypothesis is more than wishful thinking. You don't get to ignore every previous console release because they were all more than half a decade ago when console generations are themselves 6+ years. "But it was so long ago" is not a valid argument unless you can follow that with something relevant that is different between now and then other than the last two digits of the year.
There is plenty of reason to believe that GT7 will be at launch.
*It has been in development since release of GT Sport, or even before. It uses same engine, which makes development much easier and faster.
*GT7 has been introduced from the first PS5 event. It was one of the only games to show gameplay. If GT7 was far from ready, Kaz would not be there. In a pre-recorded event, it's easy to remove one game for another game.
*Yes, there is no date. Like all other first except Spiderman Miles Morales. There is also Horizon Forbidden West but it's just a target.
You have right to stay stuck in the past and not believe in a release at the same time as the PS5. But others have the right to dream.
*It has been in development since release of GT Sport, or even before. It uses same engine, which makes development much easier and faster.
*GT7 has been introduced from the first PS5 event. It was one of the only games to show gameplay. If GT7 was far from ready, Kaz would not be there. In a pre-recorded event, it's easy to remove one game for another game.
*Yes, there is no date. Like all other first except Spiderman Miles Morales. There is also Horizon Forbidden West but it's just a target.
You have right to stay stuck in the past and not believe in a release at the same time as the PS5. But others have the right to dream.
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We've never previously had a single mainline GT in a generation.
We’ve never previously seen a generational change with such similar architecture. To the point code could be (I’m simplifying here) copy & pasted to PS5. Before any deeper customisations for new hardware features.
GTS DLC has ceased. Despite PS4 titles being BC on PS5. This is not a hard cut-off like PS3 to PS4. If GT7 was years away, PD could have updated, and supported, GTS for another 12-18 months.
As mentioned previously. The prominence and scope of the GT7 reveal trailer suggests the title is amongst the first batch of PS5 1st party titles. The official Twitter account is also, increasingly, referencing GT7.
Whether it’s a launch title, launch window, or a year out. We can’t say. But evidence is mounting it’s not years away.
The base content is already in GTS. A game that’s far larger than GT3.
Other than staff working on DLC & support. PD’s team will have switched to GT7 shortly after GTS launched. DLC had pretty much dried up 12 months ago beyond a few notable pieces like Laguna Seca.
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- 735
- Maryland, USA
Hate to break it to you, but we will be lucky if we even get it by Summer of 2021. Tbh, that's how I want it to be. I want a full GT experience, not another Sport with no content.
- 880
- California
- Lux_Klonoa
- Lux Klonoa
For the PS4 at least, almost all the first-party titles first shown at the reveal event made it to the launch day and launch window. Killzone and Knack were there day one, while Infamous was in February.
Driveclub was also gonna be there day one, but it was delayed to like a year later (and it still was unpolished when it released).
Soooo while I agree that history doesn't always repeat itself, unforeseen game-breaking bugs can easily pop-up during late-stage development. So that's another factor to consider.
- 16,486
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Not as likely considering that GT7 isn't being built from scratch.
- 40,857
And? Does that make PD work any faster with a followup title when they still took 2/3rds of the console generation to release that game?
I'll certainly acknowledge that the similarity in architecture was the only remote reason that the game could have ever been a launch game. And yet we have seen them have serious problems getting a sequel out on literally the same architecture, even after specifically noting that they wouldn't.
As mentioned previously, no it doesn't. I'll mention it again below.
You mean like the quick easy release of Gran Turismo 6 was supposed to be? "GT5 was basically the creation of a whole new operating system"
Other Gran Turismo games have been introduced at other Sony hardware launch events with far more attention than GT7's 3 minute trailer dumped among a bunch of other games; many of them personally played on stage and talked about by Kaz, some of them even playable in demo form by the public. GT:HD and Gran Turismo 2000 were both given a hell of a lot more information and detail than GT7 was when they were first shown off. And, while I'll get to this more in a second, I know you're aware of GT: Sport's development history and its reveal.
"We can release GT5 anytime we want."
- Kaz, June 2009(!)
That's not proof anymore than it was when AlanH49 was bringing it up.
Changing tacks a bit.
So let's talk a bit about the past, because I just realized something. It's been quite a while, but it did eventually hit me just why this is all so damn familiar.
Remember when you said that Gran Turismo Sport won't be announced until it's nearly complete, because PD hadn't made that mistake since GT PSP? You were so certain of it that you brought up that fact 8 different times, at least, even though the basis of the reasoning was never actually true (though we'll get to that next).
Twist: They announced GT: Sport in October 2015, with a beta to come early 2016 and a November release date. The game came out at the end of 2017.
Remember when you insisted that GT: Sport wasn't going to be delayed, and used the two most recent games as proof of PD choosing realistic release dates (since you apparently weren't aware, despite all those times you brought it up, that GT PSP was actually announced in May of 2004 and was supposed to come out in April of 2005).
Twist: Just like how GT: PSP was ultimately delayed so many times that it ended up being nearly 5 years late, GT Sport was delayed by quite a bit indeed; and PD's sole example of making a release date was basically dumping an unfinished GT6 on the market at the latest possible time they could still release a major PS3 game was not ultimately proof that they could stick to their release schedules.
Remember when you told people to not to worry about the beta of GT Sport?
Twist: It was quietly cancelled in order to try and get the game out in time for its late 2016 release date; which it missed anyway by 11 months.
Remember when you insisted, in no uncertain terms, that Gran Turismo Sport's development was going fine; and that a journalist who was personally given an office tour by Kaz to try it said he thought it might be delayed because it was kind of rough at that point was a non-credible journalist writing for a bad website that GTP shouldn't have reported on at all who was just making supposition from nothing (despite... uh... being someone worth inviting to PD's offices to play a private demo of the game after being given a tour by Kaz personally)?
Twist: The game's development apparently wasn't going that good, since it was delayed by 11 months.
Remember when you insisted, in spite of the above, that at the end of April there was no reason to worry about the Beta missing its Spring announcement because Spring in France ended at the end of June?
Twist: They never said "Spring" in the first place and instead always said "Early 2016" (which June definitely is not), as explained multiple times including by someone who went so far as to translate the original Japanese page PD put up; and the Beta was quietly cancelled a few weeks later anyway.
Remember when you insisted, in spite of (by this point) the Beta being cancelled and the above personal tour by that journalist of the PD offices, that the game wasn't going to be delayed short of some sort of disaster, and reiterated that the people who were talking about other rumors (this time about the PS4 Pro announcement being on September 7th) were linking to the same bad website that GTP shouldn't have reported on with the non-credible journalist making suppositions from nothing?
Twist: GT Sport was in fact delayed only a couple weeks later. The PS4 Pro was in fact announced September 7th.
So, yeah. It had honestly completely slipped my mind that you were the "that journalist who played the game and toured PD's offices is lying about how the game is progressing, so I'll just insist the game is well on track based on literally nothing" guy.
"Please don't treat me blindly assuming that PD will make their release dates that they haven't even announced yet like all the other times I blindly insisted that PD will make their release dates. That was the past. Also ignore the times I insisted that they learned from their mistakes specifically and sometimes immediately before the last game had things cancelled and missed release dates. A lot has changed since... uh... 2016."
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-GT5 November 2010
-GT6 December 2013
-GTS October 2017
It’s absolutely relevant GT6 released on PS3 (after PS4 launched) and there will only be one mainline GT on PS4. There was a very clear decision by Sony to support PS3 beyond PS4’s launch. Something they aren’t repeating with this generation transition.
GTS was developed from the ground-up on an entirely new architecture. PS5 is a seamless transition of said architecture. Sony made an internal decision to end (new) PS4 AAA development late ‘17/‘18. It makes eminent sense, PD’s next GT has been targeting, ‘20-‘21 at the latest.
I don't mind that you quote my previous posts.
I admit having been too optimistic about GT Sport.
But since then I have learned a lot about the development of games and the different architectures of consoles. And yes, we change.
Also, a lot has changed at Sony with a lot of new heads in the management and PoDi has grown and seems to be working with external studios on some things. The world situation has also changed with COVID. In short, yes, things have happened since 2016.
Now we say that a release at the same time as the PS5 is possible. We have presented our arguments. That's all.
Like I said. You are free to believe in a release for 2022 or later. But others have the right to be optimistic even if it bothers you.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
We already have something that is bigger than GT3 sized in GT Sport. If GT7 is reusing those assets and engine, just jazzing it up to PS5 standard which is what it looks like (and there’s nothing wrong with that), then they already have around double the content of GT3 to start with. That’s before You think about what they have developed for GT7 that hasn’t appeared in GT Sport like the 911 GT1 and 917, Trial Mountain etc.
It is far more relevant that PD have missed far more launch dates than they have ever hit. We don’t even have a launch quarter or estimated release date for GT7 yet.
While it would be nice for GT7 to be everything we wanted and release this December, it is the less probable outcome based on the only history of PD we have to go on.
It isn’t impossible but for now it is improbable. I for one would much prefer to get a GT game that lives up to expectations more than a launch window release. We could get both, we could get neither, but I’m not expecting a PS5 launch title here.
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- 3,003
- Dundee, Scotland
I am still in that category that hopes PD will pull an 'uno' reverse card and surprise you all by releasing it with the console. 
Realistically though I think most games releases will depend on when they decide to open up the PS5 Pre-orders and given the recent article I read on PushSquare about rumours of pre-orders opening causing queues to reserve one that turned out to be internet rumour from unknown sources anything can happen.
I guess once Sony have done their next PS5 which I think was August we shall perhaps know more about what is coming when?
Realistically though I think most games releases will depend on when they decide to open up the PS5 Pre-orders and given the recent article I read on PushSquare about rumours of pre-orders opening causing queues to reserve one that turned out to be internet rumour from unknown sources anything can happen.
I guess once Sony have done their next PS5 which I think was August we shall perhaps know more about what is coming when?
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- 16,486
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I really don't want PD to rush this game to market so it can be released on the PS5 launch day. I'm not saying they can't release it on the launch day, but the development timeline shouldn't be shortened to achieve this. If the development timeline dictates that it should release in 2021, so be it. You can't rush a game when there's soo much riding on it.
If it is a Launch title and I hope it will be, it will not be a Rush game because they have been working on it for a few years.
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