Legalization of Marijuana

[Max Powers]

suppliying US junkies.

No. I've had too many close calls with local junkies.

People who smoke weed are junkies now? Some people live sheltered lives.

Junkies do heroin.

 

[Joel]

Hmmm?

So street racing should be legal.???

Same thing with that logic.
Or slapping prostitutes,....

Don't be silly, there's a clear logical distinction. Street racing is illegal because the roads are a public place and are public property, and slapping prostitutes is illegal because it's assault.

Where does smoking weed fit into this?

 

[Azuremen]

People who smoke weed are junkies now? Some people live sheltered lives.

Junkies do heroin.

Drug culture is a very, very misunderstood thing generally

I still hear people saying potheads smoke dope, etc. Or smoking weed = doing dope.

 

[MarcoM]

Don't be silly, there's a clear logical distinction. Street racing is illegal because the roads are a public place and are public property, and slapping prostitutes is illegal because it's assault.

Where does smoking weed fit into this?

Nowhere.

But the things drugsrunners do in my borderland region is something that is an assault. Denying that is just

 

[Azuremen]

But the things drugsrunners do in my borderland region is something that is an assault. Denying that is just

If it was legal they wouldn't have to be criminals anyhow, which would reduce related crime.

So your point is?

 

[MarcoM]

If it was legal they wouldn't have to be criminals anyhow, which would reduce related crime.

So your point is?

Did you ever make the effort to check where I live? I live in a country where many drugs are legal. But that is not the case in countries that surround the Netherlands. That leads to a lot of criminal activity in the border areas.

Legal or illegal, it is beyond me how easily you agree with such violent criminal behaviour. You show totally no respect for the many innocent victims that suffer due to the behaviour of criminals.

 

[Joel]

He's not "agreeing" with it. He's saying that the crime is only because of the illegality. If drugs were legal, people wouldn't have to do it in secret and carry guns with them while they transported drugs.

If drugs were legal, they could be grown in peace and then shipped to a store like any other commodity. There aren't any wars over tomatoes or celery.

 

[Keef]

Did you ever make the effort to check where I live? I live in a country where many drugs are legal. But that is not the case in countries that surround the Netherlands. That leads to a lot of criminal activity in the border areas.

Okay, let us analyze this.

Drugs are legal in the Netherlands. They're illegal in bordering countries. This leads to dangerous activities in the border regions (I assume US-Mexico border-style gunfights, etc).

Now, why on earth would drug runners require weapons to simply drive across the border to sell their stuff? Seems like the drugs are a pretty hot commodity. Hard to come by I'd say, and desired highly by other smugglers and especially the authorities. Authorities with guns. So that's why the drug runners need guns, to defend themselves from others, especially authorities, who try to stop their operations.

So what would happen if drugs were illegal in the Netherlands? At first glance it seems like it would level the playing field across the border and the violence would go away. I'm not so sure.

People have a tendency to keep doing what they want to do whether or not it is illegal - they simply do quietly when nobody is looking. In the case of various goods, especially drugs, this leads to a black market. A black market which will defend itself from authorities trying to end it. With guns. It's safe to say that banning drugs in the Netherlands won't work.

So what if drugs were made legal in the bordering countries? Well, if drugs were legal then there would be no need for guns, not only because the cops wouldn't be tracking down the distributors but also because those distributors could market to the local smoke shop where users could go and buy their drugs peacefully. It's even likely that small companies would organize to produce, distribute, and sell the drugs just like a brewery does.

I think the militant drug violence is a pretty easy problem to solve. Legalize the drugs and then those people are no longer under pressure to hide and defend their not-so-dangerous-anymore operations. You'd probably run into the same civil problems that alcohol leads to, but hey, that's legal so it must not be too bad.

 

[MarcoM]

Keef, while I do not always agree with you on all your points, I do agree on legalization of drugs in other countries.

Hopefully it will happen one day.

 

[opelgt1969]

Keef, while I do not always agree with you on all your points, I do agree on legalization of drugs in other countries.

Hopefully it will happen one day.

Since you live in "The Netherlands" could I ask you a question? Here goes
Do employers there have drug test before hiring if so what do they check for? Always wondered about this since here in the "FREE WORLD" USA you have to take a drug test to work at just about anywhere, which I find strange because the government started it but later stated it's unconstitutional for congress to have to take them.

 

[MarcoM]

Since you live in "The Netherlands" could I ask you a question? Here goes
Do employers there have drug test before hiring if so what do they check for? Always wondered about this since here in the "FREE WORLD" USA you have to take a drug test to work at just about anywhere, which I find strange because the government started it but later stated it's unconstitutional for congress to have to take them.

No, not that I am aware of.

But let's face it, if somebody is really addicted, you must be blind not to see it.

They are experimenting with drug tests in traffic control though. Good thing, because stoned people should not drive.

 

[daft biker]

They are experimenting with drug tests in traffic control though. Good thing, because stoned people should not drive.

I passed my driving test after 3 fat ones and was well chilled for every lesson too!

Once you've been stoned for a few decades it's maybe better not to drive straight

Being a bit more serious I agree but do they really need to do tests to figure it out? Some folk can handle weed about as well as I can handle alcohol....even although the law says I can have a drink and still drive it's probably for the best if I don't. One glass of wine and I'm anybody's

 

[Ibonibo]

He's not "agreeing" with it. He's saying that the crime is only because of the illegality. If drugs were legal, people wouldn't have to do it in secret and carry guns with them while they transported drugs.

If drugs were legal, they could be grown in peace and then shipped to a store like any other commodity. There aren't any wars over tomatoes or celery.

These people don't smuggle for their own consum. They often don't even smoke. They are criminals want to make easy money.

If weed got legalized, they would smuggle guns, if those are legalized they would smuggle humans.

I don't see your point at all. The pothead who goes up to smoke, rarely runs like that from the cops as they don't transport kg's and they don't use guns.

It's like you take taht comment as an insult to potheads which is clearly not the case

 

[daft biker]

If weed got legalized, they would smuggle guns, if those are legalized they would smuggle humans.

Not sure I follow the logic there

As far as I know all 3 of those things get smuggled and are already big business for organised crime. Legalise weed and there's little market for 1 and the same market for the other 2 surely?

 

[SkateNj]

To the OP

Yes & No.

This is why it should be legal as it will kill a lot of drug dealers off the street the supply and demand will be in tobacco shops and designated retailers. Thus having taxes thrust upon it which in theory would help the governments get surplus to put towards serious items. But in saying this to work it would have to HEAVILY watched to stop road deaths more regulated then the alcohol industry for that reason.

Haha you are so ignorant of the drug underworld. I have grown up i drug culture for the past 5 years of my life. Where i could get anything from bud to lsd to morphine to oxycontin whatever. Buti choose not to do it throwing the gateway theory out the window. I KNOW that legalisation of any drug will not stop any dealer. Heres an example. Around here a dime (.5 grams) of good bud is 10 dollars. But a dime of goverment schwag (bad bud) would most likely be about 15 dollars. Why pay the extra cash for worse bud? I know this as an ex dealer and grower.
Even if other drugs were legal too it would be the same case. Shrooms,lsd,heroine etc.

To all you saying it will hinder cartels you are wrong. One of my older friends is a former cartel member and i have learned how they work over time. Bud is not the largest part of thier operation. Most cartels depend on human and weapons trafficing. Thats were the big bucks are. To sell an ounce of decent bud is about 400 dollars. To smuggle one human across its nearly 6 grand. Even if legalized though they will still move massive amounts of bud. As dealers will still sell. The whole chain wont fall apart that easily.

 

[Danoff]

Haha you are so ignorant of the drug underworld. I have grown up i drug culture for the past 5 years of my life. Where i could get anything from bud to lsd to morphine to oxycontin whatever. Buti choose not to do it throwing the gateway theory out the window. I KNOW that legalisation of any drug will not stop any dealer. Heres an example. Around here a dime (.5 grams) of good bud is 10 dollars. But a dime of goverment schwag (bad bud) would most likely be about 15 dollars. Why pay the extra cash for worse bud? I know this as an ex dealer and grower.
Even if other drugs were legal too it would be the same case. Shrooms,lsd,heroine etc.

Yea, because that's how it happened with alcohol.

People will pay the extra money to go get their drugs from CVS rather than getting drugs from a dealer that cut it with baby laxative or rat poison. They'll also pay extra to not have to worry about getting involved in a violent encounter over payment/etc.

There is absolutely NO WAY people will continue to buy illegal drugs when they're legal. Too many benefits from a reputable corporation (Marlboro?) making high quality products with safe transactions.

 

[88FoxBodyFan]

Haha you are so ignorant of the drug underworld. I have grown up i drug culture for the past 5 years of my life. Where i could get anything from bud to lsd to morphine to oxycontin whatever. Buti choose not to do it throwing the gateway theory out the window. I KNOW that legalisation of any drug will not stop any dealer. Heres an example. Around here a dime (.5 grams) of good bud is 10 dollars. But a dime of goverment schwag (bad bud) would most likely be about 15 dollars. Why pay the extra cash for worse bud? I know this as an ex dealer and grower.
Even if other drugs were legal too it would be the same case. Shrooms,lsd,heroine etc.

I don't know how you do things where you live, but where I'm from, a dime bag of bud is 2 grams, not half a gram.

 

[Azuremen]

Legal or illegal, it is beyond me how easily you agree with such violent criminal behaviour. You show totally no respect for the many innocent victims that suffer due to the behaviour of criminals.

As it is beyond me how you read so far into what I said, and how much you are trying to play emotional type cards in a reasoning type discussion.

If weed got legalized, they would smuggle guns, if those are legalized they would smuggle humans.

Each what you just mentioned, drugs, guns, and people, are already smuggled.

So your logic kind of just fails on that alone.

 

[FoolKiller]

These people don't smuggle for their own consum. They often don't even smoke. They are criminals want to make easy money.

If weed got legalized, they would smuggle guns, if those are legalized they would smuggle humans.

I don't see your point at all. The pothead who goes up to smoke, rarely runs like that from the cops as they don't transport kg's and they don't use guns.

It's like you take taht comment as an insult to potheads which is clearly not the case

I think you missed the part where MarcoM's complaint was drug tourism causing problems on the border cities of his country.

But if you want to go down this road, look at casinos before and now. Gambling has slowly been getting legalized. The main argument against it was that casinos bring prostitution and organized crime. A very 1950s view. Imagine how disappointed I was when I went to the local casino and saw mostly old, overweight white trash playing nickel slots. They made the sign for Paula Dean's buffet look hot. The casino had free soda, so bonus there. The most sex I saw was when the comedian hypnotist had a hot chick in a skimpy skirt hump a chair for the, um, climax of his show.

Simply put, legal activities will gain a more law-abiding following that have less desire to accept illegal activities around them. The businessmen of these newly legalized operations stop letting the unsavory types hang about, as it is now hurting business. The unsavory types move on, but they won't be around the now legal activity.

 

[MarcoM]

As it is beyond me how you read so far into what I said, and how much you are trying to play emotional type cards in a reasoning type discussion.



Each what you just mentioned, drugs, guns, and people, are already smuggled.

So your logic kind of just fails on that alone.

Being afraid to walk around the block does raise emotions.

My wife works in youth care. The stories of necessary youth care when drugs are involved are countless.

Mummy and dady smoke weed, young childs get a bad start. I will not spell out the details here, because you are not able to handle them. But I think anyone with can relate to that sooner or later.

 

[nobuffalo]

Mummy and dady smoke weed, young childs get a bad start. I will not spell out the details here, because you are not able to handle them. But I think anyone with can relate to that sooner or later.

Just stop it, I know plenty of parents who smoke weed and their kids aren't off to a bad start. There's a difference between drug use and drug abuse, ya know?

 

[Azuremen]

Mummy and dady smoke weed, young childs get a bad start. I will not spell out the details here, because you are not able to handle them. But I think anyone with can relate to that sooner or later.

My parents smoked weed, and I had an excellent start in life, your point?

And yes, emotions matter to people, but emotions shouldn't be the basis for legislation, because emotions are not rational generally.

You can talk down to me all you want, but you know nothing about me. At all, despite those few posts of mine you read in this thread.

 

[FoolKiller]

Being afraid to walk around the block does raise emotions.

My wife works in youth care. The stories of necessary youth care when drugs are involved are countless.

Mummy and dady smoke weed, young childs get a bad start. I will not spell out the details here, because you are not able to handle them. But I think anyone with can relate to that sooner or later.

I hope you are talking about born addicted kids, and not parents that smoked some after the kid was in bed. Watch any video of Woodstock and you'll see plenty of marijuana use by people with kids.

Now, tell me how that is any worse than alcoholic parents, abusive parents, unfaithful/promiscuous parents, etc. There are a million ways to be a bad parent and possibly screw up your kids. My wife was adopted after being taken from her birth parents by the state and my cousin and her wife participate in the foster to adopt program and are on their third foster child that had to detox after birth. It isn't the drugs that is the problem. It is the parents that love the drugs more than their kids.

 

[MarcoM]

My point remains that I saw a lot of bad thing in my border region. All drugs related.

I am quite happy with the weed pass the Dutch goverenment has introduced. Too bad for the French and Belgium folks.

Casey, I know the difference.

Azuremen, not sure if I understand your "You can talk down to me all you want, but you know nothing about me. At all, despite those few posts of mine you read in this thread." Don't get to emotional hey

Foolkiller, for all the happy things you picture there are also negative effects. Some people see the happy things, others experienced the negative effects unvoluntarily.

 

[McLaren]

Being afraid to walk around the block does raise emotions.

My wife works in youth care. The stories of necessary youth care when drugs are involved are countless.

Mummy and dady smoke weed, young childs get a bad start. I will not spell out the details here, because you are not able to handle them. But I think anyone with can relate to that sooner or later.

Just another case of blaming "subject x" instead of placing blame on the parents.

 

[daft biker]

Mummy and dady smoke weed, young childs get a bad start. I will not spell out the details here, because you are not able to handle them. But I think anyone with can relate to that sooner or later.

Utter nonsense.

 

[MarcoM]

immature reaction above

Just another case of blaming "subject x" instead of placing blame on the parents.

I blame the parents for doing wrong things with subjects X

Happy now?

 

[daft biker]

immature reaction above

Because the comment was so laughable.

 

[Dennisch]

MarcoM, maybe you should move away from the border, to come and see how it goes in this part of our enormous country. The things you say. You make it sound as if all bad things you've seen are all drugs related. And that is just nonsense.

As mentioned above there is a difference between use and abuse.

 

[FoolKiller]

FoolKiller, for all the happy things you picture there are also negative effects. Some people see the happy things, others experienced the negative effects unvoluntarily.

The negative effects are not the fault of the drugs.

immature reaction above

I blame the parents for doing wrong things with subjects X

Happy now?

Do you think bad parents change whether subjects X are legal or not?