Legalization of Marijuana

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I will get a huge flak from this but i honestly feel like Marijuana are not that different compared to Alcohol IMO. Not sure why drugs are considered bad while alcohol are literally looked upon by most societies as the greatest thing to ever graze this universe. They are the same thing in my eyes i.e they both make the consumer behave like..."out of his/her/they usual mind" to put it that way.

At the end of the day, i'm just some 21 year ols kid who saw the effect of drinking on a close friend and i wasn't fond of it. You like
Cannabis, rotten malt? Fine, whatever.
 
ToyGTone
...i honestly feel like Marijuana are not that different compared to Alcohol IMO.
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I'm broadly in agreement with you here, though I've only experienced the former on one occasion and don't wish to repeat it, and I partake of the latter with enthusiasm on a regular basis.

ToyGTone
Not sure why drugs are considered bad while alcohol are literally looked upon by most societies as the greatest thing to ever graze this universe.
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Here's where you lose me. I think there may be over-generalization here, as well as underestimation as to how deeply puritanical claws have been plunged into society. Just look at liquor laws, largely founded upon religiosity, that govern not only to whom liquor may be sold, but also when and where.

ToyGTone
They are the same thing in my eyes i.e they both make the consumer behave like..."out of his/her/they usual mind" to put it that way.
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Lots of things consumed in excess have wild physiological effects, and not all desirable.

ToyGTone
You like
Cannabis, rotten malt? Fine, whatever.
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I approve of the spirit behind this; you've decided it's not for you but you presumably won't judge those who wish to imbibe.

But come on. Rotten? Rot is a natural process that frequently results in things that are unpleasant or deadly when consumed in even small quantities. Fermentation, vinification and distillation (that last one is completely unrelated to rot but is often combined with the other two) are controlled processes that have been perfected over centuries to produce desirable products that aren't necessarily even state-altering...like cheese...and are even beneficial.
 
ToyGTone
Not sure why drugs are considered bad while alcohol are literally looked upon by most societies as the greatest thing to ever graze this universe.
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Real-life-Citizen-Kane newspaper mogul Wiliam Randolph Hearst saw hemp (basically marijuana based paper which was much more durable than wood pulp) as a huge threat to his paper mill business so he trashed the drug, using his newspaper business to do a J. Jonah Jameson propaganda job on it.

http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/pot/blunderof37.html
 
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TexRex
Here's where you lose me. I think there may be over-generalization here, as well as underestimation as to how deeply puritanical claws have been plunged into society. Just look at liquor laws, largely founded upon religiosity, that govern not only to whom liquor may be sold, but also when and where.
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I have no say in this because i always assumed that most of the world largely accepted drinking liquor. Hell, even over here were such thing's are somehow allowed and highly taxed upon because money.

I approve of the spirit behind this; you've decided it's not for you but you presumably won't judge those who wish to imbibe.

But come on. Rotten? Rot is a natural process that frequently results in things that are unpleasant or deadly when consumed in even small quantities. Fermentation, vinification and distillation (that last one is completely unrelated to rot but is often combined with the other two) are controlled processes that have been perfected over centuries to produce desirable products that aren't necessarily even state-altering...like cheese...and are even beneficial.
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My bad, didn't know the better term for such methods. They look like nice apple juices to me. :lol:
 
ToyGTone
I have no say in this because i always assumed that most of the world largely accepted drinking liquor.
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Socially perhaps, but legally it's a bit more complicated. Here in Minnesota we have only been able to buy it on Sundays since mid-2017 and grocery stores/convenience stores can only sell beer that's 3.2% alcohol.
 
It should definitely be legalised and regulated for quality. The main issue is having it available with CBD as a component this negates the negative aspects of the high such as paranoia. I miss growing and breeding it but there is too much hassle at the moment in the uk. At least the skills are transferable Ive come to love gardening from my experience with it.
DSC00557.JPG
 
Northstar
Socially perhaps, but legally it's a bit more complicated. Here in Minnesota we have only been able to buy it on Sundays since mid-2017 and grocery stores/convenience stores can only sell beer that's 3.2% alcohol.
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Ah, thanks for clarifying.

Laws are confusing.
 
ToyGTone
I have no say in this because i always assumed that most of the world largely accepted drinking liquor. Hell, even over here were such thing's are somehow allowed and highly taxed upon because money.
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Yeah, the mixing of religion and law makes for some rather brackish water. Even in my country there is a mandate that the two remain separate from one another, and yet that is frequently disregarded for what our "betters" deem to be "the greater good." Money complicates matters further.

ToyGTone
My bad, didn't know the better term for such methods. They look like nice apple juices to me. :lol:
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Hey, no worries. I'm not fully informed of your background, but over the years I've gotten the sense that English isn't your first language. That's fine, and you do better than some for whom it supposedly is.

Northstar
beer that's 3.2% alcohol
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Mmm, well water.
 
ToyGTone
Not sure why drugs are considered bad while alcohol are literally looked upon by most societies as the greatest thing to ever graze this universe.
Click to expand...

*Laughs in Utahn*

TexRex
Here's where you lose me. I think there may be over-generalization here, as well as underestimation as to how deeply puritanical claws have been plunged into society. Just look at liquor laws, largely founded upon religiosity, that govern not only to whom liquor may be sold, but also when and where.
Click to expand...

*Cries in Utahn*

Northstar
Here in Minnesota we have only been able to buy it on Sundays since mid-2017 and grocery stores/convenience stores can only sell beer that's 3.2% alcohol.
Click to expand...

*Sympthazies in Utahn*

===

Honestly, when it comes to marijuana I'm pretty against it. I don't want to use, nor do I necessarily enjoy being around people who are high. I can't stand the smell, I find "weed culture" to be annoying, and I'm very skeptical of the health benefits that some people tout. However, I can separate my personal feelings from my views on its legality. Marijuana should be 100% legal and those who want to use it, should be able to. If you want to grow it, you should be able to do that as well. Even when it comes to the sale of it, it should be sold in any store that believes they should stock it. Hell, growers should be able to set up a stand at a local farmer's market to sell their crop if they want.

I do think, much like alcohol, you shouldn't operate a vehicle while under the influence of marijuana. While being high is supposedly better than being drunk, I still don't believe it's safe to be on the road. Employers should also be able to hire/fire based on the results of a drug test as well.
 
Joey D
*Laughs in Utahn*



*Cries in Utahn*



*Sympthazies in Utahn*

===

Honestly, when it comes to marijuana I'm pretty against it. I don't want to use, nor do I necessarily enjoy being around people who are high. I can't stand the smell, I find "weed culture" to be annoying, and I'm very skeptical of the health benefits that some people tout. However, I can separate my personal feelings from my views on its legality. Marijuana should be 100% legal and those who want to use it, should be able to. If you want to grow it, you should be able to do that as well. Even when it comes to the sale of it, it should be sold in any store that believes they should stock it. Hell, growers should be able to set up a stand at a local farmer's market to sell their crop if they want.

I do think, much like alcohol, you shouldn't operate a vehicle while under the influence of marijuana. While being high is supposedly better than being drunk, I still don't believe it's safe to be on the road. Employers should also be able to hire/fire based on the results of a drug test as well.
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Should an employer be able to hire/fire you based on drinking too?
 
Rallywagon
Should an employer be able to hire/fire you based on drinking too?
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Sure, if that's what an employer wants to do then it should be their right to do it. Really an employer should be able to hire/fire based on whatever.

On the same token, I'd support an employer only hiring people who took a drug test and failed it.

Of course, people could run an employer through the wringer if the practiced this stuff.

I don't care if a co-worker does drugs, drinks, whatever. All I care about is if they're capable of doing their work and that they're not an idiot.
 
As a former partaker of one, and current user of the other, let me weigh in:

People should be able to do whatever they want, and partake in whatever they want, in the privacy of their own homes. As long as it doesn't interfere in their jobs or otherwise negatively in their lives.

You come home after a long day at work, you should be free to crack open an ice cold beer, or load the stickiest nug into the bong, and not be judged poorly for either choice.
 
On the subject of urine testing I think the practice is unfair for marijuana users, the tongue test is significantly more accurate to determine the influence of it in your system as it generally only stays there for 14 hours as opposed for the 1 week plus in the urine which is rediculous and puts it more inline with Alcohol testing.
 
So, I am guessing that the House will pass the bill, I'm not sure about the senate. But I think Trump would sign it.
 
The key thing about legalising is setting limits of THC % (ideally 8-10%) and making CBD ratio minimums of at least 30%. Having had experience with concentrates I can say that they're about as recreational as absinthe and not to be messed with. Using ice/cold water filtration the left overs from a grow can produce hash up to 90% pure, this can go even higher when using solvent extraction too. These products are fine in the medical side were purity is key, but have no reason to be in the hands of the average consumer. As far as medicinal use is concerned it should be studied more and readily available were the effects are proven, sadly vested interests wield a lot of power and are the main reason this has not happened so far. Marijuana has analgesic properties which is beyond dispute, recent studies have pointed to it helping with seizures with people who have epilepsy, and most interestingly a study from Barcelona university have indicated it has a strong influence on slowing metastasis in breast cancer patients. Its important to understand that Marijuana is not an intoxicant, it merely binds with receptors found on the cell walls and we have equivalent compounds that do this in our bodies. The fact that pharma companies use their considerable lobbying influence to block Marijuana legalisation for self interests needs to be addressed, particularly when the alternative could be considerably more effective and substantially less toxic. What big pharma doesn't like is you can produce your own medicine, capitalism thrives on artificial scarcity.
 
How is marijuana a controlled substance at the federal level but legal in 11 other states? I don't quite get this particular federal vs state issue. Does it mean that because it is banned federally, interstate trafficking is banned but it's fine within a state that has allowed it?
 
Liquid
How is marijuana a controlled substance at the federal level but legal in 11 other states? I don't quite get this particular federal vs state issue. Does it mean that because it is banned federally, interstate trafficking is banned but it's fine within a state that has allowed it?
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No. Its federally illegal, so sale, purchase and use are fully illegal, even in legal states, at the federal level. What this translates to is State police and lower will not arrest for marijuana use so long as its done per the letter of the law. So normal users and small growers pretty much have nothing to worry about. It becomes a little more interesting when you get bigger though. So, since its still a federal crime, the State of Michigan itself cannot accept anything other than cash for licensing fees and tax payments. Big grow operations can also bring the ire of federal agents who can still come in to the state and arrest grow shop owners (and pretty much everyone in the chain from consumer to grower).

evldave333
The key thing about legalising is setting limits of THC % (ideally 8-10%) and making CBD ratio minimums of at least 30%. Having had experience with concentrates I can say that they're about as recreational as absinthe and not to be messed with. Using ice/cold water filtration the left overs from a grow can produce hash up to 90% pure, this can go even higher when using solvent extraction too. These products are fine in the medical side were purity is key, but have no reason to be in the hands of the average consumer. As far as medicinal use is concerned it should be studied more and readily available were the effects are proven, sadly vested interests wield a lot of power and are the main reason this has not happened so far. Marijuana has analgesic properties which is beyond dispute, recent studies have pointed to it helping with seizures with people who have epilepsy, and most interestingly a study from Barcelona university have indicated it has a strong influence on slowing metastasis in breast cancer patients. Its important to understand that Marijuana is not an intoxicant, it merely binds with receptors found on the cell walls and we have equivalent compounds that do this in our bodies. The fact that pharma companies use their considerable lobbying influence to block Marijuana legalisation for self interests needs to be addressed, particularly when the alternative could be considerably more effective and substantially less toxic. What big pharma doesn't like is you can produce your own medicine, capitalism thrives on artificial scarcity.
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Who are you to decide who should consume how? I can go buy absinthe and everclear right now in a liquor store. Why shouldn't I be able to buy dabs or potent hash? What because you or someone you know had a bad experience hitting a dab once? What about edibles? Those are way, way easier to take too much of simply by their nature, and human nature. Should those not be allowed? Should we force people to inhale the smoke of a burning plant if they want to consume?
GTFO here with that nonsense. Even drinking beer its possible to drink enough to get sick, or even get alcohol poisoning. A couple of morons who don't have the self control to drink responsibily should bar me from enjoying a glass of scotch or bourbon, why should those same types bar me from enjoying a dab or a gummy? They shouldnt, plain and simple.
To further this argument, you cant die from going over board either. You'll definitely be uncomfortable. You'll have all sorts of anxiety and feel like ****, but its physically impossible to overdose on marijuana. I could roll and smoke an entire ounce in one shot and not die from it no matter how high the THC count. Go chug a couple of 5ths of just average liquor (which are drastically cheaper nonetheless) and tell me how that goes for ya.
As far as I am concerned, the only regulation that should be on marijuana is a purity test for commercial sales to make sure its both at the THC/CBD levels claimed and that no contaminates, such as fertilizers or pesticides, are present in the final product. Everything else is over reach.
 
evldave333
capitalism thrives on artificial scarcity
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No it doesn't, it thrives on innovation. Corporate collusion and control is only possible through influence on government to create legislation - and legislation is anathema to capitalism.
 
evldave333
apples and oranges
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Not really. The ultimate expression of capitalism is the free market economy - an economy with absolutely no legislation. Any financial legislation is a dilution of capitalism. Legislation only made possible by large companies lobbying government to create favorable conditions for themselves - either as a monopoly or a cartel - is also a dilution of capitalism.

The concept of "Big Pharma" lobbying for legislation against marijuana is not capitalism in action, it's cronyism. It's also something nobody actually wants to see, across the political spectrum.
 
Not really. Bug Pharma would certainly like for legislation to exist that allows only them to product marijuana products. But thats the nature of the beast. What company wouldn't want to be the sole provider of something as widely consumed as marijuana?
People growing their own is really not much of a threat to a commercial grower/distributor. Look at it like this. People can also grow their own veggies and herbs. Most people don't. Most people could brew their own beer, but don't. Most people don't have the time/knowledge/skill or just plain want to go through all the trouble of growing when its readily available right now at a store. Convenience wins nearly every time.

Famine
Not really. The ultimate expression of capitalism is the free market economy - an economy with absolutely no legislation. Any financial legislation is a dilution of capitalism. Legislation only made possible by large companies lobbying government to create favorable conditions for themselves - either as a monopoly or a cartel - is also a dilution of capitalism.

The concept of "Big Pharma" lobbying for legislation against marijuana is not capitalism in action, it's cronyism. It's also something nobody actually wants to see, across the political spectrum.
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to be fair, there would need to be an extreme amount of trust between corporations and consumers for their to be a truly free market, and since they are run by people, I just don't think I could ever trust a corporation to do the right thing without oversight. BP, VW, the Big 3, PG&E. I mean, there is just a huge list of corporations and reasons why I would never trust a corporation to do the "right thing" and work free of regulations and oversight.
 
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DesertPenguin
And how will a drug test accomplish this?
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It won't. All I'm saying is I support an employer's right to hire/fire based on what they deem necessary. If I was a hiring manager, as long as the person doesn't show up to work under the influence of anything, I personally wouldn't care what they did in their free time depending on the job. If it's a job where you're expected to be on call a certain amount of time, I would care, but only during their on-call period. After that, they could do what they wanted.

I know for a fact I work with people who use marijuana recreationally among other drugs. While I don't agree with their choice of recreation, I see no reason they shouldn't be allowed to do it as long as they do their work.
 
Exactly. There's a big difference between a Cannabis User and a "Pot Head". Just like there's a huge difference between a Alcohol Consumer and an Alcoholic. Most people can use one or the other (or both), responsibly in their free time. They know when it's okay, and they know when it's not. No employer wants to see an employee at work drunk or high, ever. But, if you're a responsible user, then that's never going to happen, so it's really a non-issue.

But, if you have to take a drug test for employment, that says you took a substance, but there is no way of knowing if you took it an hour ago or last week, that's pretty unfair and messed up. And, it bars a lot of qualified people from getting jobs they would be perfect for.
 
theknyte
But, if you have to take a drug test for employment, that says you took a substance, but there is no way of knowing if you took it an hour ago or last week, that's pretty unfair and messed up. And, it bars a lot of qualified people from getting jobs they would be perfect for.
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Story of my life...
 

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