LeMONS to LeMANS Race Series -- Season Ended

[RockinVs]

not to mention, ive found, and with searching on here as well, that racing hard tires last just as long as softs. they are just less grippy. in my b-spec endurance races, bob has had to pit at roughly the same times no matter what tires are put on.

there was no input on sport tires, but i wonder if this is the same as well.

 

[chuyler1]

Yes it is true for sports tires according to a 20 lap test another forum member did. He graphed lap times at Trial Mountain. The times slowly rise at equal rates for all tires over 20 laps. That's the only example I know of with concrete evidence...but others continue to claim that there is no difference in distance between the compounds.

It would be really cool if we could work tire strategy into these endurance races...but that would only make sense if soft tires lasted fewer laps than hard tires. Of course it would make planning a strategy a week long ordeal. You'd have to know exactly how many laps you can make it on each tire, and what speed those laps were.

I've found I can only get about 10-15 laps out of a set of tires before lap times drop noticeably, and its the same for every tire. Unfortunately, they don't drop enough through laps 16-25 to warrant changing. I really don't like the tire model at all. It is like the tire meter is a grip meter. As the tire wears down you get less grip each step of the way.

I would think IRL race tires have pretty much equal grip through 85% of its tread life, then it would drop significantly when you go past that. I was watching the NASCAR all star race the other day. Drivers with 40 laps on their tires could still run ahead of drivers with fresh tires. That isn't the case for all tracks but it is amazing the tire can do that.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I'm practicing in my lounge right now if anyone wants to join me (send me an invite if you aren't on my friend list already).

 

[fatrab]

Hey chuyler, I think it is best for this series and myself for me to pull out and stick to your 450pp night. I am too crap a driver and don't have time to put the practice in.

Like someone said previously, it becomes frustrating being 5-10 laps behind and I don't want to leave the room and cause potential instability.

I enjoy your events and would like to enter one in the future, but before that, I need to seriously up my skill level. Apologies for any inconvenience.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Another person dropping out? At this rate, I will be dead last.

I did get to practice, and spend my money. My best was a 1:38, but I can't do that reliably. I can do 1:40s somewhat consistently.

This is the half-way point in the season, and I'm not sure what to make of things. I think my car has peaked. My best race was last week. I think I'll fall further and further behind as the series goes on.

Part of the reason I did so well last week is because others didn't put but so much work into their cars.

Mind you, most of the other cars aren't much different than mine. There are a lot of Lancers and Imprezas. While I suspect everyone's car is near their peak, there are a couple of differences.

1) Given the same car, others will be faster than me. To me, the point behind this series is to establish some parity. So crappy drivers like me get better cars so we can be competitive. I do feel I've gotten better this series. Next time, I'll have to pick a car that I can put more money into. Something with the option of a front aero kit and something that will really tax the transmission (I'm still running the stock transmission).

2) Others will probably get the fully customizable suspension. I can't get anything out of that. I'm not that good a driver, yet. The stiffer springs in the height-adjustable suspension has helped me, but I don't see the need to worry about more than that.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

If folks are slow...rather than dropping, try shadowing the lead cars to figure the line. This group is solid and makes for good learning and practice.

Finished tweaking my car before 450s PP and just set out. Put a few bucks into it.

The 1:36.391 was my slowest and the 1:33.700 my quickest. I still have quite a few bucks to play with and depending on what times folks are claiming ( I have to go back and look) I may do stage 2 weight. Will have to see.

BTW Racing with the volume just loud enough to hear the car and no BGM is great. Two days ago my quickest time was 1:34.6xx and after running the 450PP comfort soft races...I hopped into the Preza and was faster by second lap.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

If folks are slow...rather than dropping, try shadowing the lead cars to figure the line. This group is solid and makes for good learning and practice.

BTW Racing with the volume just loud enough to hear the car and no BGM is great.

Well, as slow as I am, I can't shadow anyone. I have to watch them in the replay. That still doesn't help since we don't do any course twice, and it happens after the demoralizing defeat.

As to the background music, there is an option for that. I have mine turned completely off during the race.

 

[chuyler1]

1:33 is quick. If I can resolve some of my tuning issues I might be able to hit that, but more than likely I'll be running 1:35-1:38. Hopefully that'll be enough to keep up with the front pack via the draft.

As for volume levels. I turned off the music ages ago and my skill improved immensely. I keep the volume at a moderate level so I can hear my tire squeal.

We will definitely make changes for the next season. There are plenty of things we could do differently and I'm open to suggestions.

Another thought I had was to scratch the credits and use performance points instead. Everyone starts with 350-400pp for the first race. The winner has to run the same car the next week. Everyone else gets more performance points to add. The loser might be running 450pp for the 2nd race while the winner is still stuck with 400. Driver skill still plays a part, but if the driver can't win a race with 50 more performance points they really don't deserve to. (the pp mentioned is just an example, I'm not sure what the range is for most cars)

 

[fatrab]

I've turned off music across the board as well.. Including the menu music (mainly because the wife was complaining as I wasn't playing with headphones at the time).

chuyler, I would be keen on next season if the race length was shorter (eg 30-40 minutes). Like a_garris said above, it just becomes demoralizing trying to drive 60 laps week after week and get smashed. A shorter race time obviously removes any pit strategy that you may want as a part of the series though.

I know a 60 lap race is great for high skill level drivers, so I guess it depends on how many drivers you want to attract to begin with & also how many you want to retain.

Anyway, that is just my 2c. I'll still continue following this series and might pop in to watch tonight - I think I will get more enjoyment that way.

 

[gjbaldwin60]

Well, I'm bummed I'm going to miss tonights race.. I still haven't had a chance to open up the PS3 to see what is wrong, I guess the only shot I have at making it is if something came off the board and I can just re-attach. If I need parts I'm screwed!

Anyway, have a great race and if good luck is running my way I'll see you in the room!

Greg.

PS. As far as the next series, I think the performance point method that you went through would work if we could figure out what to do with the mods that don't affect perf points. The other thought (which I know is boring) but a truly even series would start with everyone in the same stock car from the dealership and use the same reward system.

Range of driver skill is always going to be an issue, maybe what we could do is have a portion of the events be sprint nights, i.e. instead of having one 60 lap race, we have three 15 lap races. With some sort of modification in the points system.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

truly even series would start with everyone in the same stock car from the dealership and use the same reward system.

I do like this idea to an extent. Maybe one FR, one AWD, and one MR that are all balanced. On just my DS3, oversteer is a real pain.

 

[chuyler1]

Well I think I'm ready for tonight. I think this car has a 1:33 in it, but I'm not going to be getting it. I had a few mid 1:34s during my practice session. After that I just focused on figuring out what kind of lap times I was running as the tires wore down so I could figure out a pit strategy. Going to do a little Math now.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Went back and watched my lap replay and I had traction control on 5! Taking it down to zero will probably make the corkscrew more dicey, but I should be quicker around the first few corners.

As for next season...I'm game with whatever. I think we should start on sport tires or make sure no one is in AWD/4WD. Too great of an advantage on Comfort tires.

 

[chuyler1]

Exiting the cork screw is one place my car doesn't have trouble...provided of course I brake early enough to get the right entry. I'm braking well before any of the markers, so as my tires wear down, it gets harder and harder to find the right spot to hit the brakes.

Now the left turn following the corkscrew is a whole other story. I'm doing better but I can't figure out how to brake for this turn. With fresh tires I can coast in 4th and downshift to 3rd once I'm confident I can exit. Downshifting early upsets the rear of the car and I drift. Braking too much causes understeer so its better to just find the right speed and apply very little brake if any at all. I do best when I just coast through it but I know there must be a line where I can enter faster, brake, then hit the apex for a fast exit. I just can't figure out where to be on the track to get it to work.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

I rolled through that left hander, full throttle for the next right and rolled through the final corner. Rolling through the final corner and getting a full head of steam down the main stretch is where I gained the final .5 I was missing. Besides that 1:33.700, my avg lap times are 1.34.4-135.4.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Exiting the cork screw is one place my car doesn't have trouble...provided of course I brake early enough to get the right entry. I'm braking well before any of the markers, so as my tires wear down, it gets harder and harder to find the right spot to hit the brakes.

Now the left turn following the corkscrew is a whole other story. I'm doing better but I can't figure out how to brake for this turn. With fresh tires I can coast in 4th and downshift to 3rd once I'm confident I can exit. Downshifting early upsets the rear of the car and I drift. Braking too much causes understeer so its better to just find the right speed and apply very little brake if any at all. I do best when I just coast through it but I know there must be a line where I can enter faster, brake, then hit the apex for a fast exit. I just can't figure out where to be on the track to get it to work.

First off, the markers are destructible. In my practice last night, I knocked them all down first so I wouldn't rely on them.

But, this is one of those thoughts that makes me think, "Clearly I'm doing something wrong." I don't have a problem with the left after the corkscrew (Rainey Curve). But you are talking about being in 4th and downshifting? I come out of the corkscrew in second and get up into third just in time for Rainey and feather third until I see the exit.

As to using PP to limit things: Just an aside, I hate that an over-tuned car limited to a set PP will be faster than a car tuned up to that same PP. This is why I don't bother with the 450 nights. My 450s are tuned up to 450, and are epically slow by comparison.

 

[sl3ight]

Chuyler, left foot braking will make that turn much easier. It's a good way to influence how the diff acts also.

 

[chuyler1]

It's hard to say, but you may be hitting the corkscrew wrong Garris. Or you've just got a taller 3rd gear than me. If I hit it right, I put 2 wheels over the left side rumble strips on entrance. I ease into the throttle in 2nd gear and once I clear the right side apex I short shift to 3rd. If I do it right, I'll be ready for 4th just before entry to "Rainey Curve". However, I don't get much acceleration in 4th. Occasionally I have left it in 3rd (especially when my tires are worn).

I'm sure LFB'ing would help me...but I'm not consistent enough with it. The only car thus far that I have had success with LFB'ing in is the FGT.

Regarding 450pp nights, taking something off the shelf will never be quick. You've got to install the right mods (including all pp free-bees like the transmission). That still might not make a fast car though. Maximizing grip with the right suspension and running a clean line is what it takes to get to the front and stay in the front. With my group, you can usually get a top 5 finish if you race clean the entire race and stay on the track. If your car is slow down the straight, it just puts more pressure on you to run clean and fast through the turns to stay within drafting distance.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Just another thread where I'm posting that I dont add transmission to my cars. I use an automatic transmission...will the full racing trans make the cars quicker or would I have to fidget with the gearing?

 

[sl3ight]

Just another thread where I'm posting that I dont add transmission to my cars. I use an automatic transmission...will the full racing trans make the cars quicker or would I have to fidget with the gearing?

If you just install the full race transmission and don't adjust anything it has the same ratios as the close ratio 6 speed. It doesn't matter if you use automatic or not, you should be adjusting your gear ratios to get the most out of your cars.

 

[chuyler1]

You don't necessarily have to mess with the individual ratios. The bottom setting is called "top speed". If you change that, it will adjust the ratios automatically for even acceleration up to the top speed. You want to hit redline in your top gear at the fastest part of the track while in a draft. In warmup, drop the top speed until you bounce of the rev limiter, then move it up a few notches. You can certainly get more out of this mod by changing things individually, but following these instructions will make you quicker than stock, especially on short tracks. Tsukuba for example I set the top speed to about 130mph. I will rifle through all 6 gears on the back straight. On faster tracks, like when we get to le Sarthe, you'll absolutely need to mess with the transmission to increase your top speed.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

You don't necessarily have to mess with the individual ratios. The bottom setting is called "top speed". If you change that, it will adjust the ratios automatically for even acceleration up to the top speed. You want to hit redline in your top gear at the fastest part of the track while in a draft. In warmup, drop the top speed until you bounce of the rev limiter, then move it up a few notches. You can certainly get more out of this mod by changing things individually, but following these instructions will make you quicker than stock, especially on short tracks. Tsukuba for example I set the top speed to about 130mph. I will rifle through all 6 gears on the back straight. On faster tracks, like when we get to le Sarthe, you'll absolutely need to mess with the transmission to increase your top speed.

I'll cross that bridge or drown when I fall over when I get there

 

[chuyler1]

Room will be open at 9:30. Race will start at 10:00 and we will do 60 laps.

Reminder for the pole sitter: Please run 40-60 mph at a steady pace for the first lap. Wait until you are at least 1/4 down the straight and most of the cars have cleared the last turn before you accelerate to race speeds. There is no passing before the start/finish line. Tires will likely still be cold so take things slow the first few turns.

A note about entering pit road: If you don't slow down, your car will get stuck in the sharp turn at the beginning of pit road. I tried barreling into it...it doesn't work. Hit the brakes and coast into the pit to reduce your pit time.

A note about exiting pit road: If you aren't careful, it will dump you right into oncoming traffic. I suggest cocking the wheel slightly to the left and waiting to hit the gas until you have straightened out. If you let the car float to the far side of the track you will be in the way of on coming traffic. Granted it will be their fault if they hit you...but with damage on full you'll both be going back to the pits for repairs.

 

[grenadeshark]

Room will be open at 9:30. Race will start at 10:00 and we will do 60 laps.

Reminder for the pole sitter: Please run 40-60 mph at a steady pace for the first lap. Wait until you are at least 1/4 down the straight and most of the cars have cleared the last turn before you accelerate to race speeds. There is no passing before the start/finish line. Tires will likely still be cold so take things slow the first few turns.

A note about entering pit road: If you don't slow down, your car will get stuck in the sharp turn at the beginning of pit road. I tried barreling into it...it doesn't work. Hit the brakes and coast into the pit to reduce your pit time.

A note about exiting pit road: If you aren't careful, it will dump you right into oncoming traffic. I suggest cocking the wheel slightly to the left and waiting to hit the gas until you have straightened out. If you let the car float to the far side of the track you will be in the way of on coming traffic. Granted it will be their fault if they hit you...but with damage on full you'll both be going back to the pits for repairs.

I thought it was the job of the person entering the pits to avoid traffic, not vice versa. Ex: Oncoming traffic runs into guy coming out of pit stop, I would think it would be pit stops guys fault?

 

[chuyler1]

It depends, but i tend to agree, the driver exiting the pits should stay out of harms way until they reach racing speeds. Cutting across the track to block has been known to happen IRL but i would like drivers exiting the pits to use caution and not attempt a blocking tactic. Practice exiting pit road and staying to the left during warm up.

 

[chuyler1]

Room is open
1472-6118-4216-8213-1949

 

[diabolicwyvern]

 

[RockinVs]

Nice, at least the damage is even.

 

[sl3ight]

I retired after about 30 laps. Had to pit twice by then and went full derp and hit the handbrake rather than downshifting going into the corkscrew. Car was a mess, i'll take my last place credits

 

[diabolicwyvern]

I pulled a grenadeshark...Fastest on qualifying than 4th

This was the race I thought I'd do the best in but pit strategy (or lack there) let me down

I should have pit on lap 23-4, but I had been following Wiifreak and thought that if I was able to follow his lines I'd conserve my tires and need just one pit. Then I ran a 2:14 and didnt pit.

I think I might have caught Wiifreak, but one lap after pitting, I put my car into the corkscrew and had to pit again. When I came back out on the track...I followed Huyler for 8-10 laps before his second pit and ran the rest of the time alone, eventually succumbing to front and rear damage.

In the end...the timer ran out as I was travelling up the hill into the corkscrew on my last lap.

Can't win them all, though on my qualifying