LeMONS to LeMANS Race Series -- Season Ended
- Thread starter chuyler1
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- 70
- gjbaldwin60
Yeah, with these long laps I think my strategy will be to drive around at 7/10s speed and try and do well by attrition! 
I'll probably still find a way to hit a wall.
I'll probably still find a way to hit a wall.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I think that should be everyone's plan. Expect early braking and slow entry speeds. Make your laps count by getting clean corner exits and staying out of trouble.
The last few races, we have been battling over 1-2 seconds per lap. Every 10th you could squeeze out of a lap was important. This race is about making it to the finish. An accident will cost you minutes, not seconds.
I can tell you right now, I am going to take the final turns after the long straight very slow. I will likely use light braking early on to guarantee my speeds are well within the limits of my tires.
The last few races, we have been battling over 1-2 seconds per lap. Every 10th you could squeeze out of a lap was important. This race is about making it to the finish. An accident will cost you minutes, not seconds.
I can tell you right now, I am going to take the final turns after the long straight very slow. I will likely use light braking early on to guarantee my speeds are well within the limits of my tires.
- 2,600
- Saint Louis
- diabolicwyvern
just did a quick top speed check w/set-up
From the starting point in lounge I did immediate 180 and headed in reverse.
Top speed achieved reverse w/o draft 191 mph
I continued in reverse to carosel and did another 180 and ran back to finish.
Top speed achieved w/o draft 188 mph
Oh and how are we running the start. I really dont care to run an 16 minute parade lap with dozens upon dozens of corners where something could go wrong. I say we grid start based on qualifying to the best of the games ability and have a no passing rule until were on the actual 'Ring'
From the starting point in lounge I did immediate 180 and headed in reverse.
Top speed achieved reverse w/o draft 191 mph
I continued in reverse to carosel and did another 180 and ran back to finish.
Top speed achieved w/o draft 188 mph
Oh and how are we running the start. I really dont care to run an 16 minute parade lap with dozens upon dozens of corners where something could go wrong. I say we grid start based on qualifying to the best of the games ability and have a no passing rule until were on the actual 'Ring'
chuyler1
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- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I think we decided the official start will be after the hairpin leading up to the Schumaker S. I imagine we will run those next few turns rather slow since tires won't really be warm until we reach the start of the north loop anyway.
Boy you're pretty quick. I was topping out at 169 mph on the uphill and bumped the rev limiter on the way down. I've got to choose between the transmission and some minor power upgrades. I think I'll have to do the transmission because I don't want to fall behind in the draft from hitting the rev limiter. Given the number of straights on this track, i likely won't be able to keep up anyway. I'll just focus on racing clean and avoiding damage.
BTW, it is going to take a solid 20 minutes to get in a qualifying lap. Please follow the following protocol...
1) Room will be open at 9:30 and race will start at 10:00, that gives you time for a warm up and 2 qualifying laps.
2) Do not drive backward on the track during this time. if you need to tune your transmission, do it in your own lobby or in practice mode before 9:30.
3) If you incur damage, please yield to faster cars so you don't ruin their qualifying lap.
4) Once you set a qualifying lap, take note of your time so we can properly grid the start.
Oh, and I think we'll run 10 laps. With 9-10 minute laps, that will make for a 1:30-1:40 minute race. Expect several of those laps to be in the dark.
Boy you're pretty quick. I was topping out at 169 mph on the uphill and bumped the rev limiter on the way down. I've got to choose between the transmission and some minor power upgrades. I think I'll have to do the transmission because I don't want to fall behind in the draft from hitting the rev limiter. Given the number of straights on this track, i likely won't be able to keep up anyway. I'll just focus on racing clean and avoiding damage.
BTW, it is going to take a solid 20 minutes to get in a qualifying lap. Please follow the following protocol...
1) Room will be open at 9:30 and race will start at 10:00, that gives you time for a warm up and 2 qualifying laps.
2) Do not drive backward on the track during this time. if you need to tune your transmission, do it in your own lobby or in practice mode before 9:30.
3) If you incur damage, please yield to faster cars so you don't ruin their qualifying lap.
4) Once you set a qualifying lap, take note of your time so we can properly grid the start.
Oh, and I think we'll run 10 laps. With 9-10 minute laps, that will make for a 1:30-1:40 minute race. Expect several of those laps to be in the dark.
- 1,542
- Chicago, IL
- iamsupernasty
Can I still get into this race tonight?
- 2,590
- GTP_SohnVonStig
So I went with stage 1 and 2 weight reduction (15k) and stage 2 engine (15k) which means I spent 30 of my 35k alotted. I'm off to do some laps to see how far behind I'll be. Still sitting at 482 pp so again if I beat you, mocking will ensue 
chuyler1
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- 4,548
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- chuyler1
I don't recall seeing you ever participate in my nightly racing lobby (correct me if I'm wrong) so the answer is no.
One of the requirements for late entries was that they run at least one race with me and the other participatants on another evening. Given that there are only 2 races left I don't want someone who doesn't understand damage-full no-contact racing ruining the race for serious competitors.
- 1,542
- Chicago, IL
- iamsupernasty
Haha gotcha. I can assure you I'm one of the cleanest racers out there, and have run the actual 24 Hours of Lemons...
Rules are rules tho I s'pose. Have fun!
Rules are rules tho I s'pose. Have fun!
- 2,590
- GTP_SohnVonStig
So after some testing I'm running consistent (nowhere near perfect) 9:30's in daylight. Off to do some nighttime laps
chuyler1
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- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Nice. How many laps did you get on a set of tires? If you can run 9:30s and get twice the tire wear due to your light weight car...you'll be in contention at the end of the race with me.
I haven't practiced the full course at all though. I did some suspension tuning using the GP track. I figured the hairpin, schumaker s, and chicane were good enough examples of the rest of the track for what I needed. Only thing I'm unsure about is dampers. I may need to go softer so the curbs are more forgiving on the north loop.
I haven't practiced the full course at all though. I did some suspension tuning using the GP track. I figured the hairpin, schumaker s, and chicane were good enough examples of the rest of the track for what I needed. Only thing I'm unsure about is dampers. I may need to go softer so the curbs are more forgiving on the north loop.
- 2,590
- GTP_SohnVonStig
I only have height adjustable so my suspension tunings been pretty limited. Looks like I'll be running 9:25 during the day and about 9:35 at night. Thank god I know this course. Tire wear after 2 laps was nonexistent so I imagine it will be the same as last week for me, if I can relax and just run a couple seconds slower than my best I should be able to make the whole race on one set. Depending on where I am in the field, I'll probably pit on lap 7 or 8 with about 40-50% tire left.chuyler1
Driving at night is effing stressful though.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
If you're going to pit anyway, might as well just do it on lap 5 so you get the most out of your new shoes...but that's just me.
I don't think i can do 5 laps on a set of tires in my car even if I keep it out of the red. I can probably squeeze 4 laps in so i will likely do two 3-lap stints and one 4-lap stint.
I don't think i can do 5 laps on a set of tires in my car even if I keep it out of the red. I can probably squeeze 4 laps in so i will likely do two 3-lap stints and one 4-lap stint.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
No ****. I'm really impressed with your nighttime laptime. I think i only managed a 9:30 and I should be running much faster. I probably should have practiced more.
- 2,600
- Saint Louis
- diabolicwyvern
Took me a couple tries to get online tonight...kept telling me the network was down for maintanence. After a little bit I finally am up and running. Just a heads up as folks may be late to the race
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
I'm sorry. I hate quitting, but it is just ridiculous.
The race starts and I'm so far behind that I don't see Diabolic when he hits the wall. It takes me a little while to catch up to him. And I only barely pass him. Then I hit the wall. I only have a little damage, but he leaves me. He is on his second lap when I enter the pits.
Second lap, I hit the wall again (same spot actually).
I'm sorry, but I'm being beat by people with a completely totaled car, or people a little MR-S. On a simple track, I could lap that MR-S.
But, that is probably the problem. I came into the series thinking that it would be something to help balance things. That as the series when on, I'd get a better car than the winners so I could keep up with them and actually get to race.
That isn't happening. For a number of reasons, I"m sure, but the two biggest are:
1) The courses. They are just getting more and more technical. So it doesn't matter if my car is getting better. It doesn't matter if my car could keep up with the leaders on last week's course, we are entering an even harder course. The difference between the leaders and me is getting bigger each week. The measures to keep things even isn't keeping pace with the difference.
2) The leaders' cars are getting better, too. I get 30,000 to improve my car (for example). The leaders get 15,000. Okay, 30,000 of my money is spent just keeping up with the 15,000 that they are going to spend this week. The other 15,000 is spent just getting my car on par with theirs last week. Which means my car isn't improving enough to keep up.
Aside from that stuff, I'm a horrible horrible driver. I know. But I can't get a league of horrible drivers. No one wants to do that. I don't want to win, I just want to actually race.
I will say that if I were to do something like this again, my car selection would be different. I'd figure out what my expected budget would be (how much will I get for losing all these races), then look in the tuning forum for a car that I can drive well for that money. And spend my season just building that car.
I could drive this Impreza okay at the beginning of the season. But as it gets more and more power, it gets more and more lose and all over the place.
That is all my fault.
Anyway. I really did do four laps in-a-row in my lounge before the race and didn't wreck at all. I get in the race and I could not finish any of the five laps I started (three out laps in qualifying and the two in the race).
Again, I'm sorry for quitting. I really really hate it.
The race starts and I'm so far behind that I don't see Diabolic when he hits the wall. It takes me a little while to catch up to him. And I only barely pass him. Then I hit the wall. I only have a little damage, but he leaves me. He is on his second lap when I enter the pits.
Second lap, I hit the wall again (same spot actually).
I'm sorry, but I'm being beat by people with a completely totaled car, or people a little MR-S. On a simple track, I could lap that MR-S.
But, that is probably the problem. I came into the series thinking that it would be something to help balance things. That as the series when on, I'd get a better car than the winners so I could keep up with them and actually get to race.
That isn't happening. For a number of reasons, I"m sure, but the two biggest are:
1) The courses. They are just getting more and more technical. So it doesn't matter if my car is getting better. It doesn't matter if my car could keep up with the leaders on last week's course, we are entering an even harder course. The difference between the leaders and me is getting bigger each week. The measures to keep things even isn't keeping pace with the difference.
2) The leaders' cars are getting better, too. I get 30,000 to improve my car (for example). The leaders get 15,000. Okay, 30,000 of my money is spent just keeping up with the 15,000 that they are going to spend this week. The other 15,000 is spent just getting my car on par with theirs last week. Which means my car isn't improving enough to keep up.
Aside from that stuff, I'm a horrible horrible driver. I know. But I can't get a league of horrible drivers. No one wants to do that. I don't want to win, I just want to actually race.
I will say that if I were to do something like this again, my car selection would be different. I'd figure out what my expected budget would be (how much will I get for losing all these races), then look in the tuning forum for a car that I can drive well for that money. And spend my season just building that car.
I could drive this Impreza okay at the beginning of the season. But as it gets more and more power, it gets more and more lose and all over the place.
That is all my fault.
Anyway. I really did do four laps in-a-row in my lounge before the race and didn't wreck at all. I get in the race and I could not finish any of the five laps I started (three out laps in qualifying and the two in the race).
Again, I'm sorry for quitting. I really really hate it.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I'm sorry to hear that garris.
As I stated at the beginning, my car needed to be completely re-tuned from when I practiced. Something changed in the new patch that made my car extremely loose...and that shouldn't happen in a 4WD vehicle.
I'm curious though, did you have grip reduction set to "real" when you practiced? It makes a huge difference on this track. I've had it on "real" for every race this series and had it on last night as well. With it set to "real" you cannot touch the grass (just like it is in real life). Out of the 10 laps, I made mistakes on several and that pesky MR2 ended up getting past me while I was in the pits. My last lap was the most exciting as I chased him down. We had an altercation on the last few turns so I gave him 2nd place.
As far as course selection goes. I picked real life endurance tracks. Yes they are technical, but Daytona, Nurburgring, and le Sarthe all have long straight sections where a faster car could make up time. Le Sarthe may very well end up being about top speed. I'm not sure what courses in the game are not technical.
For next season there will definitely be some changes...
1) Top 3 drivers will get way less rewards (winner will likely get 0 credits to play with)
2) Course selection will be different. All courses will probably be less than 3 miles and none of the same ones will be chosen (except maybe le Sarthe...but we'll see how next week goes). The long distance to pit road is painful.
3) Initial budget and car selection restrictions will be different. I think a PP restriction for the first race (without the use of ballast/power reduction) may be necessary to put cars on the same playing field.
4) Tires may not be free...allowing drivers to pick tires based on their budget and ability level.
Please chime in on changes you would like to see to make things more interesting.
As I stated at the beginning, my car needed to be completely re-tuned from when I practiced. Something changed in the new patch that made my car extremely loose...and that shouldn't happen in a 4WD vehicle.
I'm curious though, did you have grip reduction set to "real" when you practiced? It makes a huge difference on this track. I've had it on "real" for every race this series and had it on last night as well. With it set to "real" you cannot touch the grass (just like it is in real life). Out of the 10 laps, I made mistakes on several and that pesky MR2 ended up getting past me while I was in the pits. My last lap was the most exciting as I chased him down. We had an altercation on the last few turns so I gave him 2nd place.
As far as course selection goes. I picked real life endurance tracks. Yes they are technical, but Daytona, Nurburgring, and le Sarthe all have long straight sections where a faster car could make up time. Le Sarthe may very well end up being about top speed. I'm not sure what courses in the game are not technical.
For next season there will definitely be some changes...
1) Top 3 drivers will get way less rewards (winner will likely get 0 credits to play with)
2) Course selection will be different. All courses will probably be less than 3 miles and none of the same ones will be chosen (except maybe le Sarthe...but we'll see how next week goes). The long distance to pit road is painful.
3) Initial budget and car selection restrictions will be different. I think a PP restriction for the first race (without the use of ballast/power reduction) may be necessary to put cars on the same playing field.
4) Tires may not be free...allowing drivers to pick tires based on their budget and ability level.
Please chime in on changes you would like to see to make things more interesting.
- 510
- snoopykuan
Quick recap.
Lap 1. Spun somewhere but saved it.
Lap 2. Got passed by and repass sohnvon.
Lap 3. Getting dark and got passed by sohnvon. Thinking about pit strategy. Contact. Damage. Pit.
Lap 4. Dark. Contact. Damage. Pit.
Lap 5-8. See lap 4.
Lap 9. Daylight. Contact. Damage. Pit.
Lap 10. Misery over.
Congrats to Wiifreak. Looking forward to la Sarthe.
Lap 1. Spun somewhere but saved it.
Lap 2. Got passed by and repass sohnvon.
Lap 3. Getting dark and got passed by sohnvon. Thinking about pit strategy. Contact. Damage. Pit.
Lap 4. Dark. Contact. Damage. Pit.
Lap 5-8. See lap 4.
Lap 9. Daylight. Contact. Damage. Pit.
Lap 10. Misery over.
Congrats to Wiifreak. Looking forward to la Sarthe.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
My recap:
Lap 1-3: Follow Wiifreak and apply pressure
Lap 4: Getting dark, tires wearing out. Car spun out near Wipperman but I slammed the brakes and avoided damage. I pitted that lap and came out about 20 seconds back.
Lap 5-6: Night time, closest I got to Wiifreak was about 16 seconds back.
Lap 7: Put a wheel in the grass on the outside of Bergwerk, rear damage
Lap 8: Screwed up the brake zone before the carousel. engine and front damage
Lap 9: Was talking and forgot to brake at AngstKurv. Major damage
Lap 10: Chased down Sohn after he passed me in the pits. Ran one of my cleanest laps of the race and caught him on the straight. Made a pass but didn't want to go too fast into the final turns two-wide so I lifted off. We rubbed and I braked to avoid going off track. I pulled in behind but he braked super early for the final chicane. I punted him. I waited for him to re-enter the track but it looked like he had engine damage so I gave him 2nd place.
I'm a little upset that the time progression didn't go as planned. I did not intend for more than half the race to be in the dark. Next time I'll do a progression of 20 or 30.
What are people's thoughts on doing night racing at le Sarthe, provided the time progression is faster to allow for more laps in the daylight. We could try starting at night or something. Personally, I'm fine with running the whole thing in daylight.
Lap 1-3: Follow Wiifreak and apply pressure
Lap 4: Getting dark, tires wearing out. Car spun out near Wipperman but I slammed the brakes and avoided damage. I pitted that lap and came out about 20 seconds back.
Lap 5-6: Night time, closest I got to Wiifreak was about 16 seconds back.
Lap 7: Put a wheel in the grass on the outside of Bergwerk, rear damage
Lap 8: Screwed up the brake zone before the carousel. engine and front damage
Lap 9: Was talking and forgot to brake at AngstKurv. Major damage
Lap 10: Chased down Sohn after he passed me in the pits. Ran one of my cleanest laps of the race and caught him on the straight. Made a pass but didn't want to go too fast into the final turns two-wide so I lifted off. We rubbed and I braked to avoid going off track. I pulled in behind but he braked super early for the final chicane. I punted him. I waited for him to re-enter the track but it looked like he had engine damage so I gave him 2nd place.
I'm a little upset that the time progression didn't go as planned. I did not intend for more than half the race to be in the dark. Next time I'll do a progression of 20 or 30.
What are people's thoughts on doing night racing at le Sarthe, provided the time progression is faster to allow for more laps in the daylight. We could try starting at night or something. Personally, I'm fine with running the whole thing in daylight.
- 510
- snoopykuan
chulyer, some suggestions (even though I am fairly new to the series):
(1) I'm ok running 1/2 of the race at la Sarthe during the night next week. la Sarthe is not as technical as Nurburgring and the night track is pretty well lit.
(2) winner should get some credits, but maybe just not as much. If winner gets nothing, then there could be strategic "losing" going on.
(3) tire choice is tricky. I like everyone running on the same compound. Different compound could widen the gap even more (or close it, depending on circumstances). And it is more work to ensure compliance, although I do not think we would purposely get around that.
(4) to level the playing field, maybe the last place in the standing should have an option of changing his car? Alternatively, maybe gradually increase the PP each race, e.g., 600 PP last race; 550 next-to-last; 500, etc.? Or just keep it as is and folks need to make a good choice at the beginning.
(1) I'm ok running 1/2 of the race at la Sarthe during the night next week. la Sarthe is not as technical as Nurburgring and the night track is pretty well lit.
(2) winner should get some credits, but maybe just not as much. If winner gets nothing, then there could be strategic "losing" going on.
(3) tire choice is tricky. I like everyone running on the same compound. Different compound could widen the gap even more (or close it, depending on circumstances). And it is more work to ensure compliance, although I do not think we would purposely get around that.
(4) to level the playing field, maybe the last place in the standing should have an option of changing his car? Alternatively, maybe gradually increase the PP each race, e.g., 600 PP last race; 550 next-to-last; 500, etc.? Or just keep it as is and folks need to make a good choice at the beginning.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
(1) Good to know...but at night you just can't run as fast. If people fall behind, even in a faster car it is difficult to catch back up.
(2) I don't think there will be strategic losing. After all, there is quite a point spread between the top positions. Even if it puts you in a bad situation for the next race, you gotta grab those points when you can. My original goal was to put the 1st place car in a last place position for the next race...thus forcing them to race perfectly to gain positions.
(3) I agree, which is why I didn't do it this round. But based on Garris's comments and other comments earlier in the series. Drivers with less skill cannot overcome drivers with more skill even with more power. They need more grip. Garris and baldwin had faster cars on the 2nd and 3rd races...but they couldn't run consistently fast lap times like gShark and I.
(4) I've been thinking about car swapping a little...and I might as well think out loud. I would love to see the first few races be true Lemons style with old cheap cars and low PP (under 400). Last Sunday we had 400pp vintage night and it was tons of fun. However starting with an old low pp car means you can't build it up to very high pp. We'd have to incorporate car swapping or simply lower the rewards to keep cars from gaining pp quickly.
Anyway, the more I think about it, PP has to be the starting point. There is no other way to make the first race fair. Even with PP, cars won't be perfectly matched (we see it every night in my lobby) but it will be much closer than it was at the start of this series.
Thoughts on the following theme?
Vintage lemons series -- all cars need to start under XXX performance points and 19XX year. All races will be run on comfort soft tires. Reward system will be very low, enough to buy one or two parts. Struggling drivers after 2 races will be allowed to use sport hard tires.
(2) I don't think there will be strategic losing. After all, there is quite a point spread between the top positions. Even if it puts you in a bad situation for the next race, you gotta grab those points when you can. My original goal was to put the 1st place car in a last place position for the next race...thus forcing them to race perfectly to gain positions.
(3) I agree, which is why I didn't do it this round. But based on Garris's comments and other comments earlier in the series. Drivers with less skill cannot overcome drivers with more skill even with more power. They need more grip. Garris and baldwin had faster cars on the 2nd and 3rd races...but they couldn't run consistently fast lap times like gShark and I.
(4) I've been thinking about car swapping a little...and I might as well think out loud. I would love to see the first few races be true Lemons style with old cheap cars and low PP (under 400). Last Sunday we had 400pp vintage night and it was tons of fun. However starting with an old low pp car means you can't build it up to very high pp. We'd have to incorporate car swapping or simply lower the rewards to keep cars from gaining pp quickly.
Anyway, the more I think about it, PP has to be the starting point. There is no other way to make the first race fair. Even with PP, cars won't be perfectly matched (we see it every night in my lobby) but it will be much closer than it was at the start of this series.
Thoughts on the following theme?
Vintage lemons series -- all cars need to start under XXX performance points and 19XX year. All races will be run on comfort soft tires. Reward system will be very low, enough to buy one or two parts. Struggling drivers after 2 races will be allowed to use sport hard tires.
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
Just a random thought: I probably have wrecked on every course. But the ones I can think of right now I was already losing when I had my first wreck: GVE-R, Leguna Seca, Nur. So even without wrecking, I'm still not fast. My fastest Nur lap in testing was 10:18.
I did wreck on Cape and lost a position or two on that one. But that was to Diabolic, who drove the whole race with damage.
A lot of it is my fault. I can't tune, yet. I need to remove that from the equation by finding a good tune that I can use.
I did wreck on Cape and lost a position or two on that one. But that was to Diabolic, who drove the whole race with damage.
A lot of it is my fault. I can't tune, yet. I need to remove that from the equation by finding a good tune that I can use.
- 465
- sl3ightaru
Focus more on learning how to tune and tuning to your style. I very rarely find a pre made setup that works for me. Also keep in mind that a setup is never a complete solution. We have plenty of guys who are just plain fast without doing any setup work. Unless the car is so out of whack that it's impossible to drive cleanly, think of tuning as a way to get those few extra tenths.
I'd be down for a vintage series, but I think allowing some people to use Sport Hards while others are on Comfort Softs is straight up unfair. I'd be more inclined to go for a ballast based success penalty system, since that can have a big effect on the older cars with less power.
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