LeMONS to LeMANS Wednesday Series

[gjbaldwin60]

hello all,

great fun last night

i just want a clarification

if i missed it in the OP, apologies

my question is:

if you don't use all your allocated credits, you don't get to carry them over to the next race, right?

Yes you can carry forward your allocated credits

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Diabolic, do you honestly think you'd have finished better than 6th had you qualified better? We were all tied together in a line starting around lap 45, and your qualifying position would not have affected that....I honestly do not believe that the restart affected the outcome.

First, I took 5th. Second, You really think grenade would have got 6th if he had to run lap 1 with engine damage and then had to pit? He'd have been lapped by lap 3 certainly. With engine damage + pit...he'd have added a minute+ to the lap. With him not in front of me, both my accidents dont occur. Myself and BTK should have took 2-3 working together. Teamwork seems to be lost on everyone here. The infighting is what allowed the miatas to remain close enough to overtake us.

Race with me awhile though and you'll see. I'm as fast as the person in front of me if the cars are equal. Somtimes at corner exit Im slower, but thats the automatic transmission, not me. I hate passing and I've stated than dozens of times. I would have finished 2nd though if I started second. I spent 20 some odd laps running crappy 1:25s because the IS 200 and Primera took up the entire course battling. Defensive lines were being run 5 laps into the race! If they would have let me in front...I would have pulled them along to better times. As soon as I was alone, I ran 1:23s. From testing, I could run 1:23s with a couple 1:22s for 20+ laps and I guarentee the 280, lexus and Primera could barely scrape that time with draft.

My best laps were in the 40s when I ran several 1:22s. My best being 1:22.4xx while I chasing down shark trying to keep Wiifreak behind me. I doubt anyone else, even with draft (aside from Wii) can claim a time remotely close to that.


Short answer...YES I would have been 2nd...at worse 3rd if Bowtie wanted 2nd.

---------------------------

Looking forward to an accident laden Tskuba! But dont worry, if two of us are wrecked on lap 2 we restart...3 wrecks on lap three..restart. All we have to do is ask.

 

[SohnVonStig]

First, I took 5th. Second, You really think grenade would have got 6th if he had to run lap 1 with engine damage and then had to pit? He'd have been lapped by lap 3 certainly. With engine damage + pit...he'd have added a minute+ to the lap. Myself and BTK should have took 2-3 working together. Teamwork seems to be lost on everyone here. The infighting is what allowed the miatas to remain close enough to overtake us.

Race with me awhile though and you'll see. I'm as fast as the person in front of me. I hate passing and I've stated than dozens of times. I would have finished 2nd though if I started second. I spent 20 some odd laps running crappy 1:25s because the IS 200 and Primera took up the entire course battling. Defensive lines were being run 5 laps into the race! If they would have let me in front...I would have pulled them along to better times. As soon as I was alone, I ran 1:23s. From testing, I could run 1:23s with a couple 1:22s for 20+ laps and I guarentee the 280, lexus and Primera could barely scrape that time with draft.

My best laps were in the 40s when I ran several 1:22s. My best being 1:22.4xx while I chasing down shark trying to keep Wiifreak behind me. I doubt anyone else, even with draft (aside from Wii) can claim a time remotely close to that.


Short answer...YES I would have been 2nd...at worse 3rd if Bowtie wanted 2nd.

No doubt you could have run 22's all day long with an open track. I know the only reason I was able to keep up was cuz you guys were battling and even then I was losing almost a second a lap, thank god you guys pitted otherwise I would have never caught you. Your car is VERY fast.

The restart definitely altered the race for a couple people, but the fact is that it wasn't fair to have the race order THAT messed up. I realize that I benefited from the restart seeing as I started 7th the 2nd time around rather than 13th where I started the 1st time. That being said, if you're driving a car that is 2-3 seconds FASTER per lap and you can't get past, you're being too nice

 

[chuyler1]

I think we did a restart at least once last season but I forget why. I don't want people getting major damage on the first turn because of some grid layout mishap. lumberjack was obviously in the wrong place on the grid and it ruined the start of the race for the back half of the field based on the comments at the time. I am laying down new rules to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Next wednesday.
9:30 Room opens for 20 minutes of practice
9:49 Track will be reset and the race will be scheduled to auto-start at exactly 10:00.
9:50 Everyone will be given 10 minutes to put down a qualifying lap.

Qualifying etiquette:
* When entering the track, watch the map to make sure you don't interfere with someone already on their hot laps. Stay on the inside until you are beyond the first hairpin. Faster cars may be looking to track-out exiting the hairpin to get around you so please just stay inside.
* If you make a mistake, yield to faster cars on the track as to not ruin their qualifying lap too.
* Do not exit to the lobby for any reason.
* Do not enter pit road for any reason (if you get damage, tough luck).
* When you are happy with your time you can either continue running laps until the time runs out or you can park out of the way. Do not interfere with any other drivers on the track.

 

[MNLumberjack]

Hey at least its wasn't like pre season where the vette got pole

 

[diabolicwyvern]

No doubt you could have run 22's all day long with an open track. I know the only reason I was able to keep up was cuz you guys were battling and even then I was losing almost a second a lap, thank god you guys pitted otherwise I would have never caught you. Your car is VERY fast.

The restart definitely altered the race for a couple people, but the fact is that it wasn't fair to have the race order THAT messed up. I realize that I benefited from the restart seeing as I started 7th the 2nd time around rather than 13th where I started the 1st time. That being said, if you're driving a car that is 2-3 seconds FASTER per lap and you can't get past, you're being too nice

I am too nice and I expect the treat others rule to work in the online world as well. I wont put another driver in jeopardy, but if I'm disrupted again...like WiiFreak honking his horn nonstop while shark, myself and a couple others were battling for position heading towards the final corner I'll have a change of heart really quick. He was miles ahead and felt fine blaring his horn for no reason. Perhaps a quick readup on racecraft and sportsmanship is in order. And that goes for anyone who feels the need to disrupt another driver by weaving leaving a final corner as well. If it would distract you, dont do it to another. And before someone says I should left a lead car through...I was still within 10 seconds of third at that point...I'll move over for no one

 

[chuyler1]

Diabolic,

Sl3ight, grenade, and I raced 20+ laps in a perfect chain, swapping positions along the way via the draft. There was a little bumping here and there but nothing serious enough to complain about. During that time i think we were barely running 1:23s. All you had to do was run a few 1:22s in a row to get up close then draft for the advantage into turn 1. Wiifreak was able to lap us without much effort in the same car.

Claiming that your qualifying lap is what cost you 2nd place is B.S. Remap your buttons to race with a manual transmission and learn to pass. I must have passed grenade 4 or 5 times during the course of the race and had i been fast enough in a straight line it would have stuck the first time...My car was only good for 1:24 by itself so if I could do it, you should have been able to do it as well. I also only got one qualifying lap in because I spun out on turn 2 my second lap. I don't remember where I ended up on the grid but it certainly didn't hinder me getting to the front.

As for his braking mid corner...that's a hazzard that grenade is bringing upon himself. If his braking is more than just a correction of direction, then i'll end up bumping him back into his original line. I'll lift off to prevent it, but I won't hit the brakes after the apex. As you guys know, I still race with one foot for brake/gas. If i'm half-way into the throttle exiting a turn and someone decides to brake check in front of me...its not going to end well for them if they slow down by more than a few mph. I won't be quick enough onto the brakes.

 

[chuyler1]

Race results, performance parts, and allocated winnings are posted...
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...5udHVSa3lKeldYQ2tyZFlVVDRtX1VXTHc&output=html

Please send your parts selections no later than Wednesday at 12:00PM EDT. This means you will have to get some practice in BEFORE NEXT WEEK'S RACE.

IF I DON'T GET YOUR PARTS BY 12:00PM EDT ON WEDNESDAY YOU WILL BE RACING YOUR CAR FROM LAST WEEK. I HAVE GIVEN MORE THAN ENOUGH LEWAY ABOUT THIS SO DON'T BE LATE WITH YOUR SUBMISSIONS.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Last season...we entered the track and if something was wrong...we figured it out on the parade lap. This season, somehow thats not good enough?? Why did we stop that again? How about we set up a rule so that it doesnt happen again?? We all know we're on heavy damage and we saw how certain cars raced in the pre-season. I hate the thought of WASTING 30 minutes of my life qualifying only to have a restart. Right now the precedent is any first lap accident gets a restart. Do we vote on whether or not we think accidents were severe enough to warrant restart next?

 

[chuyler1]

The parade lap was just as messy...
* We spent 10 minutes trying to figure out where people ran
* One race someone actually got damage during the parade lap (dumb I know) forcing us to restart
* There was confusion every race as to when the leader could start
* Drafting a faster car was virtually impossible because by the time you reached the end of the straight the leaders were gone


If you don't want to waste 20 minutes of your life practicing, then arrive at 9:49 and do just 10 minutes of qualifying. Typical real-life race events only have about 10 minutes of qualifying.

I really don't want to see driver's races ruined in the first 10 seconds of the race. That's not what this series is about. On Tuesday garris asked if we needed a restart, and I mentioned I was OK with it but one of the drivers involved said it was ok to keep going. So we did. Last night I got placed at the front so I would have been perfectly fine without the restart but I asked if we needed one and several people said yes. So we did a restart.

And let me be clear about the precedent. It is not "any first lap accident gets a restart". It is, any horrible miss-griding or catestrophic turn 1 pileup gets a restart. If you wreck on turn 2 after the cars have made it to single-file then you own it.

 

[iamsupernasty]

iamsupernasty wants to run the premium 89 miata. Since he doesn't have time to break it in, I said it was ok if he started the season in the car with only 370pp. I think that is a fair compromise. If others want to run 0-mile cars, they can do so as long as it is under 370pp at the start of the season.

BTW, My Miata was EXACTLY 375 PP after starting at 370 (zero mile), then running Laguna Seca and GVE-R and getting an oil change.

 

[chuyler1]

Good to know for next season

 

[st1sj]

iamsupernasty, what about engine refresh? Did the PP go up from that?

chuyler, after trying both, I prefer and like the fixed dollar amount more than the PP. Less time-consuming to find a car for sure.

 

[grenadeshark]

@shark--"I was taking on the Mic (crazy right?) and I tapped the wall going into the tunnel. I bounced off it and diablo hit me slightly and we both had damage from that point on."

You smashed into the wall at 70+ I'm guessing and the slight hit was actually an epic crash. I got three circles (two of which had circles within each other) from your off. At least karma came around for me. I was running 1:24s with just 2 circles from an earlier crash when that happened. After I pitted, I ran 1:23s alone, but I have no ability to pass drivers which is why I needed to be on pole or 2nd. The whole restart thing was BULL! There was a wreck opening lap tuesday night and we didnt restart. Wii, myself and bowtie where clear and all the sudden we are restarting. Hell on Tuesday, someone pitted on lap 1...grenade and whomever could have done the same thing.

I say if there is an opening lap accident...too bad. I was the victim of early race accidents last season on several occasions and would never think to ask for a restart.

Chuyler...Can we be assured this wont happen again please. There was no point to qualifying if my 1:22.5xx starts me 6th on grid and then the Bogus restart I am 9th. We could have done a decent job ordering ourselves.

I qualified 3rd. Started 2nd to last. Had I started up front where I should have been, this never would have happened. If anything, we need to fix the system where people are where they qualified. I honestly believe the parade lap system works fine. Granted, the standing start generally benefits me greatly as I pass 1-3 people off the line every race.

@ your epic crash comment. I got 1 red circle. That's all. I pitted as well.

First, I took 5th. Second, You really think grenade would have got 6th if he had to run lap 1 with engine damage and then had to pit? He'd have been lapped by lap 3 certainly. With engine damage + pit...he'd have added a minute+ to the lap. With him not in front of me, both my accidents dont occur. Myself and BTK should have took 2-3 working together. Teamwork seems to be lost on everyone here. The infighting is what allowed the miatas to remain close enough to overtake us.

Race with me awhile though and you'll see. I'm as fast as the person in front of me if the cars are equal. Somtimes at corner exit Im slower, but thats the automatic transmission, not me. I hate passing and I've stated than dozens of times. I would have finished 2nd though if I started second. I spent 20 some odd laps running crappy 1:25s because the IS 200 and Primera took up the entire course battling. Defensive lines were being run 5 laps into the race! If they would have let me in front...I would have pulled them along to better times. As soon as I was alone, I ran 1:23s. From testing, I could run 1:23s with a couple 1:22s for 20+ laps and I guarentee the 280, lexus and Primera could barely scrape that time with draft.

My best laps were in the 40s when I ran several 1:22s. My best being 1:22.4xx while I chasing down shark trying to keep Wiifreak behind me. I doubt anyone else, even with draft (aside from Wii) can claim a time remotely close to that.


Short answer...YES I would have been 2nd...at worse 3rd if Bowtie wanted 2nd.

---------------------------

Looking forward to an accident laden Tskuba! But dont worry, if two of us are wrecked on lap 2 we restart...3 wrecks on lap three..restart. All we have to do is ask.

I pitted the same lap as you. I maybe gained 20-25 seconds on you because of the incident. Watch the replay. Laps 45-55 I ran multiple 1:23s for consecutive laps with no draft. No, I never got a 1:22. But, I managed to lose only 3 seconds to wiifreak over 10 laps and that's how I caught up to everyone up front.

I was pulling time on everyone in front of me but wiifreak between laps 45 and 55. Watch the replay . Then my tires gave out and I really slowed down on the last few laps.

I was running faster laps then Chuyler on average during the start of the race, but I could not pass him cleanly. When I did pass him, I would end up making a slight mistake and he would capitalize on it and pass me. I think you are overestimating how much more amazing you were driving compared to everyone else.

Every time you passed me, I was able to keep up easily. You claim I was running a defensive line early in the race. I am a FF. Your are a MR. Our lines are not the same. I have to brake early and hard. Otherwise the car runs wide. I think your perception of my defensive line is more of a critique on my overall driving style of slow in, fast out. Slight and chuyler found ways to pass me without too much trouble. You could have as well.

Diabolic,

Sl3ight, grenade, and I raced 20+ laps in a perfect chain, swapping positions along the way via the draft. There was a little bumping here and there but nothing serious enough to complain about. During that time i think we were barely running 1:23s. All you had to do was run a few 1:22s in a row to get up close then draft for the advantage into turn 1. Wiifreak was able to lap us without much effort in the same car.

Claiming that your qualifying lap is what cost you 2nd place is B.S. Remap your buttons to race with a manual transmission and learn to pass. I must have passed grenade 4 or 5 times during the course of the race and had i been fast enough in a straight line it would have stuck the first time...My car was only good for 1:24 by itself so if I could do it, you should have been able to do it as well. I also only got one qualifying lap in because I spun out on turn 2 my second lap. I don't remember where I ended up on the grid but it certainly didn't hinder me getting to the front.

As for his braking mid corner...that's a hazzard that grenade is bringing upon himself. If his braking is more than just a correction of direction, then i'll end up bumping him back into his original line. I'll lift off to prevent it, but I won't hit the brakes after the apex. As you guys know, I still race with one foot for brake/gas. If i'm half-way into the throttle exiting a turn and someone decides to brake check in front of me...its not going to end well for them if they slow down by more than a few mph. I won't be quick enough onto the brakes.

You guys managed to follow me with no problems. Sure, I do correct. But, I never slammed on my brakes mid corner. I like racing with you guys only it wasn't my best performance to date. That's racing. I don't get how we can stay inches off each others bumpers for 20+ laps with little to no incidents, yet I somehow become a huge problem if I am in front of one particular person on the track.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

you got 1 circle because your car weighs 200 more kg probably and you merely side swiped the wall. I hit you at 70 mph and it was nearly a t-bone. I received two circles within circle (we should come up with way to identify damage btw) on the front for four in total. Since I already had circles in rear the car was still controllable, just 5-6 seconds slower per lap..

I did pass you when it counted. If the pass is good it only needs to happen once and that was the case here. perhaps the better driver didnt win, but the better car did

 

[chuyler1]

Here's the video of the battle and incident. Jump to the last 30 seconds if you just want to see the crash. I give Diabolic props for being able to run those laps with a controller and damage. The damage, not the driving was definitely the reason he couldn't make a pass stick.



And here's 20 minutes of footage from the start of the race from my position. My car (as I expected it to be) was very slow in a straight line but most of the laps I hit my exit speeds well enough to stay in the draft of sl3ight or grenade who both had faster straight line cars. Grenade had trouble making passes stick with his understeering car through turn 2. I was only making passes to keep forward momentum of the group in hopes of pulling away from any contenders in the rear.

 

[grenadeshark]

you got 1 circle because your car weighs 200 more kg probably and you merely side swiped the wall. I hit you at 70 mph and it was nearly a t-bone. I received two circles within circle (we should come up with way to identify damage btw) on the front for four in total. Since I already had circles in rear the car was still controllable, just 5-6 seconds slower per lap..

I did pass you when it counted. If the pass is good it only needs to happen once and that was the case here. perhaps the better driver didnt win, but the better car did

I was never upset. You passed me fair a the end. Before that, I had no problems either. I was racing with no tires at the end and I'm happy where I finished. I had a fast car that was good.
It was driver error that put me in the back.

 

[iamsupernasty]

iamsupernasty, what about engine refresh? Did the PP go up from that?

chuyler, after trying both, I prefer and like the fixed dollar amount more than the PP. Less time-consuming to find a car for sure.

An engine refresh won't do anything on a 250 mile car. I haven't done one, nor do I plan on it.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Honestly...I am very surprised you would only get 1 circle from hitting the tunnel wall as hard as you did. I should have pitted with you, but I was so surprised with the accident that in a haze I ran additional lap with the damage. Just a dumb move on my part altogether.

----------------------------

On to next week, I'm very excited to be able to add ballast to the cars. Although I lose 4PP from the added weight, the car is more well rounded.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

On to next week, I'm very excited to be able to add ballast to the cars. Although I lose 4PP from the added weight, the car is more well rounded.

That is an interesting point. I don't think the rules were intended that you couldn't add ballast before the first race, but that you couldn't do that to get your PP under the 375 cap. If you wanted to run at 371 PP, I imagine that would've been fine.

On the other hand though, I guess that would've been like adding aerokit.

 

[chuyler1]

Yeah, the rule was primarily to avoid cheating the 375pp rule...however it was also to keep to a "run what you brung" theme. Adding performance parts was simply a way to get more variety into the mix for the start of the season.

Overall, I think this season started off much better than last. We shall see how the reward system plays out but for next season I think the car selection rules will stay the same...but with a different pp level to start, maybe 385 or 400. Even increasing by 5pp would open up a slew of other cars people were disappointed they couldn't run this season.

 

[MNLumberjack]

Any one willing to give tuning advice
My weight distribution is 60/40 and I cannot add rear downforce

 

[chuyler1]

I've got that car in my garage. I'll see what I can do with it. Do you race with a wheel or controller?

I think a transmission might have to be your first purchase...but given the slow speeds of this track you might sneak by without one.

 

[iamsupernasty]

I think that Corvette is doomed. You need a fully customizable trans and suspension just to hang with the rest of the cars that are stock. I'd be more than willing to let the Vette have extra spending credits since he picked a car 20-40 years older than the rest of us. Obviously that's not my decision - just an idea.

 

[MNLumberjack]

I've got that car in my garage. I'll see what I can do with it. Do you race with a wheel or controller?

I think a transmission might have to be your first purchase...but given the slow speeds of this track you might sneak by without one.

Wheel

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Yeah, the rule was primarily to avoid cheating the 375pp rule...however it was also to keep to a "run what you brung" theme. Adding performance parts was simply a way to get more variety into the mix for the start of the season.

Overall, I think this season started off much better than last. We shall see how the reward system plays out but for next season I think the car selection rules will stay the same...but with a different pp level to start, maybe 385 or 400. Even increasing by 5pp would open up a slew of other cars people were disappointed they couldn't run this season.

So I could have added ballast for the first race?? That would have made the final hairpin a lot easier. Oh well. Live and Learn. I wish we could use cars from '00 and later. I wanted to run the Storia X4 and Cujo was deadset on a Fiat BarCrapa

 

[chuyler1]

No, you couldn't have added ballast. The primary reason was to prevent over-tuning but the secondary reason was to run cars the way they came.

You can add ballast now if you want.

 

[diabolicwyvern]

Ok, good. The car stock was 375PP. To get it to 49/51 I had to add 130kg of ballast which took the car down to 371PP. IMO , well worth it with the less grippy tires.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

Overall, I think this season started off much better than last. We shall see how the reward system plays out but for next season I think the car selection rules will stay the same...but with a different pp level to start, maybe 385 or 400. Even increasing by 5pp would open up a slew of other cars people were disappointed they couldn't run this season.

I know I've enjoyed the start of this season, but I also feel that I'm simply getting ever so slightly better. I imagine if we started last season over again, I'd do better now than I did then.

I would say that we have more interest, but that may just be because they get the idea now, and not that it is being done better.

These positives can be explained, so I don't know if I can use them to show that things are better.

With money, I think we gravitated toward the cars that were more bang for buck and the variety was less. And while I would love a premium car other than the Miata, I like the year cap. I do think going to 385 will be fantastic.

Either way, I'm trying an FR next season.

 

[SohnVonStig]

I would have loved if we could have just extended the restriction 1 year I know all of them wouldn't be available due to pp levels, but there are 92 2000's in the game