LeMONS to LeMANS Wednesday Series
- Thread starter chuyler1
- 666 comments
- 23,378 views
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
Agarris did. If he decides not to run it, I will.
Yes, but I'm out of the Wednesday series, so you could've run it.
- 203
- Oakland, CA
- GTP_Mech
What time is the race on PDT time?
- 203
- Oakland, CA
- GTP_Mech
Your lounge?
- 203
- Oakland, CA
- GTP_Mech
Please accept my friend request.
- 126
hello everyone
that was a nice preseason race
a couple of things:
firstly, i was out on the track during race countdown
i only heard people asking if anyone was still on track when it was too late to get off
so if i messed anything up because of that, i'm sorry
it was a misunderstanding on my part, seeing others go back out to the track while we were waiting for the race to get started
secondly,
there was a mild incident on lap 3 between myself (toyota starlet glanza) and a miata
i am not making any accusations, actually i just want to make sure i wasn't in the wrong
i am requesting other (more experienced) opinion, so if you have the replay saved, and feel like it, you can check out the incident, it's on lap 3
i was in 3rd place, losing some ground
the miata and i go side by side into the 4th turn (left hander)
my question is, did i have the right to the inside line there, or was i too far behind, which means i should have braked harder to allow the miata to cut from outside to inside around that corner without tagging me?
thanks
(if i felt there was a significant issue i would PM the player and deal with it like that, so i'm assuming it's ok to ask for opinions of others for my own clarification, not wanting to pursue anything further regardless of who was in the wrong...however if this is inappropriate, let me know, sorry)
also, i know in some competitions, we are required to pit whenever there is damage, no matter how small it is
however in this series we are free to pit or not pit as we see fit, am i right? just want to make sure i didn't make that mistake too
in hindsight, i should have gone to the pits right away, or soon thereafter, but i was hoping i could somehow maintain a decent pace and eventually catch up a couple of positions as the race wore on...i was wrong
overall, good learning experience for me and nice way to get the series going
thanks again
that was a nice preseason race
a couple of things:
firstly, i was out on the track during race countdown
i only heard people asking if anyone was still on track when it was too late to get off
so if i messed anything up because of that, i'm sorry
it was a misunderstanding on my part, seeing others go back out to the track while we were waiting for the race to get started
secondly,
there was a mild incident on lap 3 between myself (toyota starlet glanza) and a miata
i am not making any accusations, actually i just want to make sure i wasn't in the wrong
i am requesting other (more experienced) opinion, so if you have the replay saved, and feel like it, you can check out the incident, it's on lap 3
i was in 3rd place, losing some ground
the miata and i go side by side into the 4th turn (left hander)
my question is, did i have the right to the inside line there, or was i too far behind, which means i should have braked harder to allow the miata to cut from outside to inside around that corner without tagging me?
thanks
(if i felt there was a significant issue i would PM the player and deal with it like that, so i'm assuming it's ok to ask for opinions of others for my own clarification, not wanting to pursue anything further regardless of who was in the wrong...however if this is inappropriate, let me know, sorry)
also, i know in some competitions, we are required to pit whenever there is damage, no matter how small it is
however in this series we are free to pit or not pit as we see fit, am i right? just want to make sure i didn't make that mistake too
in hindsight, i should have gone to the pits right away, or soon thereafter, but i was hoping i could somehow maintain a decent pace and eventually catch up a couple of positions as the race wore on...i was wrong
overall, good learning experience for me and nice way to get the series going
thanks again
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Regarding your lap 3 altercation, I'll have to take a look before I comment. Since it is lap 3, it shouldn't take long to get to.
Regarding pitting after damage, it is not required...however drivers are asked to use their best judgement as to whether their driving is endangering others on the track. If you have damage and cannot keep your car straight, I would say pitting is essential unless there are only a few laps left and you just want to nurse the car to the finish.
Overall, it looked like a great race. There was a little bumping on the first lap but after that I don't think I came in contact with any other car the entire race except a little tap from diabolic when he missed the corkscrew brake zone. I completed the entire race on one set of tires...but my laps went from 1:55-1:56 to 1:57-1:58 by the end. I was maybe 10 seconds behind grenade before his pit and then about 20 seconds ahead after. It took him about 10 laps to catch up by running 1:55s and occasional 1:54s. I wasn't expecting my strategy to pay off, but I figured I would use this race to test tire wear. If I get damage early on a race, I know I can go the distance if need be. However, GVE-R will be harder on my tires I think. I couldn't really warm up the tires at Laguna but turns 1 and 2 of GVE-R will definitely get my tires warm.
Regarding pitting after damage, it is not required...however drivers are asked to use their best judgement as to whether their driving is endangering others on the track. If you have damage and cannot keep your car straight, I would say pitting is essential unless there are only a few laps left and you just want to nurse the car to the finish.
Overall, it looked like a great race. There was a little bumping on the first lap but after that I don't think I came in contact with any other car the entire race except a little tap from diabolic when he missed the corkscrew brake zone. I completed the entire race on one set of tires...but my laps went from 1:55-1:56 to 1:57-1:58 by the end. I was maybe 10 seconds behind grenade before his pit and then about 20 seconds ahead after. It took him about 10 laps to catch up by running 1:55s and occasional 1:54s. I wasn't expecting my strategy to pay off, but I figured I would use this race to test tire wear. If I get damage early on a race, I know I can go the distance if need be. However, GVE-R will be harder on my tires I think. I couldn't really warm up the tires at Laguna but turns 1 and 2 of GVE-R will definitely get my tires warm.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Morbo, I watched the replay. The contact is not your fault. The only thing you are guilty of is running a horrible racing line. You were way inside entering the turn and stayed inside. The Miata should have planned to leave room at the apex if he wanted to pass on the outside. Instead, he cut in and hit you on your door panel.
You seemed to be running better lines later in the race so perhaps you were just defending your position...not sure but your deep inside line on several of the turns was very slow, even for defensive driving. For example, on the two laps I watched you were less than a car length away from the inside curb entering turn 1. The fastest line is to brake on the outside of the track and cut in. Cars were near you so the defensive line would be to use the middle of the track for braking, forcing them to go outside of you while not sacrificing your own speed too much.
You seemed to be running better lines later in the race so perhaps you were just defending your position...not sure but your deep inside line on several of the turns was very slow, even for defensive driving. For example, on the two laps I watched you were less than a car length away from the inside curb entering turn 1. The fastest line is to brake on the outside of the track and cut in. Cars were near you so the defensive line would be to use the middle of the track for braking, forcing them to go outside of you while not sacrificing your own speed too much.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Last night we started the race with 15 racers and ended with 14. Mechyboy dropped out. Was that a connection issue?
Niop and counter345 did not show up. Not sure why but unless there is some viable reason, I would have to say they forfeit their spots in the series. All drivers who did not participate last season were required to attend the pre-season race.
Niop and counter345 did not show up. Not sure why but unless there is some viable reason, I would have to say they forfeit their spots in the series. All drivers who did not participate last season were required to attend the pre-season race.
- 1,542
- Chicago, IL
- iamsupernasty
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
WiiFreak. The MG MGF is obviously a good 3 seconds faster per lap. I could run consistent 1:55-1:56 but he was running 1:52-1:53 all night long I think. No way I could compete with that. I watched a few of his laps. I was getting similar exit speeds to turns so I simply lacked the straight line speed. I was expecting that though. i didn't pick the 280z because I thought it would win the first race. A 3rd place finish is good enough for me. Might have been able to challenge grenade for 2nd had I pitted for tires. And Diabolic should've placed better in his MGF if he wasn't ghosting me around the track for 20 laps (and I think he made an unscheduled pit stop at some point as well).
- 510
- snoopykuan
My Sprinter Trueno could only manage a 1:58.6 as best lap. Started the race running around 2:00 to 2:02. Something interesting happened about lap 3 or 4. I was behind Booch for the first few laps, and then he just took off like he had nitrous. Wrecked twice on the corner before corkscrew.
No acceleration at all. How would the Volvo and the MGF be maxing out? Just trying to see if I have a chance to run in the top 6 at anytime during the season.
Edit: agarris: late in the race, when I was like 3 laps down after 2 pits, I was going to run some laps with you.
No acceleration at all. How would the Volvo and the MGF be maxing out? Just trying to see if I have a chance to run in the top 6 at anytime during the season.
Edit: agarris: late in the race, when I was like 3 laps down after 2 pits, I was going to run some laps with you.
Last edited:
- 1,542
- Chicago, IL
- iamsupernasty
I had a fun race overall. Finished 6th which I'm ok with. I certainly was not faster than any of the cars in front of me.
I didn't pit, and my lap times leveled out around 1:58.5-1:59.5. My fast was 1:56.6. I had about a 20 lap battle with the guy in 7th though. He sorta caught up, then stayed about 3-4 seconds behind me for the next 40 minutes.
I got damage on lap 14 when a player a lap down was messing around in the grass. I came up behind and stayed on the far opposite side of the track to avoid contact. That car drove all the way across the grass, to the track, then all the way across the track and plowed straight into me. I was really f'n pissed because it looked 100% blatantly on purpose. Maybe I was mistaken... If you get a second to check Chuyler I'd certainly appreciate it. Lap 14 I believe, on the second to last turn.
I didn't pit, and my lap times leveled out around 1:58.5-1:59.5. My fast was 1:56.6. I had about a 20 lap battle with the guy in 7th though. He sorta caught up, then stayed about 3-4 seconds behind me for the next 40 minutes.
I got damage on lap 14 when a player a lap down was messing around in the grass. I came up behind and stayed on the far opposite side of the track to avoid contact. That car drove all the way across the grass, to the track, then all the way across the track and plowed straight into me. I was really f'n pissed because it looked 100% blatantly on purpose. Maybe I was mistaken... If you get a second to check Chuyler I'd certainly appreciate it. Lap 14 I believe, on the second to last turn.
- 2,254
- Burlington, NC, USA
- a_garris/Vol_Jbolaz
It was not that dramatic, and it was not on purpose.
Lap 14 sounds about right. I was quite frustrated. I was only able to do a single 1:58 in a car that everyone else raves about. I kept pushing, to try and make it go faster, and I lost control and went off again after the sweeping left after the corkscrew. (Had no problems with that turn with the Impreza and the DS3. The Talon on the DFGT just goes nuts.)
Anyway, something I've lost with the wheel is a second analog stick. I can no longer look left and right. I misread the map and didn't think anyone else was around, so I floored it to get back to the track.
I apologized profusely when it happened. I am guessing my mic was muted. Or not working. The name calling was truly not called for.
Snoopy, I remember that. I'm surprised to learn that my 1:58.151 was faster than your best lap. I was a lap down when I passed you in the pits. And you stayed behind me for a while. I don't recall when you passed me, but I couldn't keep up.
I tried following several people, I was lapped a lot. One thing I always noticed was they could take corners without braking. The second right-hander after the hairpin. The second left after that. If I don't brake, even if I just let off the gas, and try to coast through, I still go way wide.
Now, I do have a FF, and there was only one other FF on the field. And I still feel like the wheel induces more understeer than the DS3 did. But still, others can be fast in the Talon, and Grenade's big car left me behind.
I told myself before last night that I was just going to do my 2:02s to 2:04s and not wreck. Regrettably, I can't help but try and go faster. And that ends poorly.
It also completely undermines the idea of a parity device such as the sliding prize scale.
Anyway, you guys have a good season.
- 567
- aGrenadeShark
- aGrenadeShark
I may recommend trying out the license tests. If you can gold all 60 tests, you are basically ready for any online tournament that goes on as far as driving skill is concerned.
The talon is a very good car. Capable of 1:52s on that track for sure.
- 510
- snoopykuan
Garris, the license tests are helpful. Also, get in a slightly faster car and follow a slower car around for about 10 laps. I have done that a few times and am much better at avoiding contact now. Feel free to join me anytime I'm testing.
Consistency and avoiding mistakes are more important than outright speed in an endurance race.
Grenade, it has been a long time since I've done the license test. That FR slalom was too frustrating.
Consistency and avoiding mistakes are more important than outright speed in an endurance race.
Grenade, it has been a long time since I've done the license test. That FR slalom was too frustrating.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I think garris was attempting to follow slower cars last night which is why he was frustrated. Garris, you were obviously paying attention and learning because the front runners, myself included did not brake for the turns you specified. I was lifting off before it and hovering over the brake in case my tires didn't hold. A few things come to mind as to why you couldn't do the same...
1) Your car was traveling faster. You'll get a draft obviously following someone. I had to brake ever so lightly when following someone into those turns. Also, as mentioned the Talon was pretty quick in a straight line so it could probably reach a faster speed before the entry to the turn by itself.
2) You weren't turning in soon enough. For both turns, you need to get the car to rotate well before the apex. Essentially, you aim the car to go into the grass and it drifts ever so slightly outward so when you finally reach the apex you aren't actually in the dirt but are lined up for a perfect exit. In racing (as opposed to drifting), it is called a slip angle.
3) You weren't turning in at the right moment. Right when you lift off the throttle, weight transfers forward to the front tires. For an instant you'll get a boost in front traction and a reduction of rear traction. Turning in at the moment you lift off the throttle gets the car to rotate very easily, reducing understeer as you approach the apex.
4) You were trying to follow a FR line in a FF car. Grenade would have been the guy to follow around the track since he was also running a FF car. Because so much stress is put on the front tires, you have to lift off the throttle and brake earlier because the car will understeer like crazy if you are braking and turning at the same time.
If you want, share your Talon and I'll run a few laps in it and save the ghost replay and send it to you. You can load it up in practice mode and follow it around the track.
Oh, and if your new wheel is a DFGT, you can look left and right using the control pad near your left thumb. Definitely useful for looking down the track before you re-enter. I made the same mistake you did at one point, running wide on the sweeping left after the corkscrew. Once my tires picked up dirt, i went wide on the next turn, then couldn't brake properly on the final turn. I think the 1:10 update has made running into the dirt very unsafe. Since this update, I only put tires on the inside of an apex if i know I have plenty of track to clean them off.
1) Your car was traveling faster. You'll get a draft obviously following someone. I had to brake ever so lightly when following someone into those turns. Also, as mentioned the Talon was pretty quick in a straight line so it could probably reach a faster speed before the entry to the turn by itself.
2) You weren't turning in soon enough. For both turns, you need to get the car to rotate well before the apex. Essentially, you aim the car to go into the grass and it drifts ever so slightly outward so when you finally reach the apex you aren't actually in the dirt but are lined up for a perfect exit. In racing (as opposed to drifting), it is called a slip angle.
3) You weren't turning in at the right moment. Right when you lift off the throttle, weight transfers forward to the front tires. For an instant you'll get a boost in front traction and a reduction of rear traction. Turning in at the moment you lift off the throttle gets the car to rotate very easily, reducing understeer as you approach the apex.
4) You were trying to follow a FR line in a FF car. Grenade would have been the guy to follow around the track since he was also running a FF car. Because so much stress is put on the front tires, you have to lift off the throttle and brake earlier because the car will understeer like crazy if you are braking and turning at the same time.
If you want, share your Talon and I'll run a few laps in it and save the ghost replay and send it to you. You can load it up in practice mode and follow it around the track.
Oh, and if your new wheel is a DFGT, you can look left and right using the control pad near your left thumb. Definitely useful for looking down the track before you re-enter. I made the same mistake you did at one point, running wide on the sweeping left after the corkscrew. Once my tires picked up dirt, i went wide on the next turn, then couldn't brake properly on the final turn. I think the 1:10 update has made running into the dirt very unsafe. Since this update, I only put tires on the inside of an apex if i know I have plenty of track to clean them off.
- 126
no you didn't hit me
thanks, that's some good advice
yes i was just trying to defend my position
i'm pretty new to clean competitive racing, so i'm learning a lot of basics these days
actually you've given me some good info in your past couple of posts, so that will hopefully help me in future races
especially the middle of the road defensive line, as opposed to the inside line all the way
and how to handle an FF as opposed to FR (since i'm also in an FF)
also, based on a few of the stories told, it seems like a pit stop, even though it loses time in the short term, gains time back overall because you end up running quicker laps with the fresh tires / no damage
little things like these are what i need to learn
- 70
- gjbaldwin60
Morbo,
It was me who bumped you and I apologize. You had the inside position and I should have held an outside line. For some reason I thought you were going to tuck in behind me when I got the run on you in the straight. I was surprised when I saw you on the inside, but after watching the replay after the race I realized I had screwed up.
I had no reason to make that assumption, so I apologize and hope to not have something like that happen again.
Greg
It was me who bumped you and I apologize. You had the inside position and I should have held an outside line. For some reason I thought you were going to tuck in behind me when I got the run on you in the straight. I was surprised when I saw you on the inside, but after watching the replay after the race I realized I had screwed up.
I had no reason to make that assumption, so I apologize and hope to not have something like that happen again.
Greg
- 465
- sl3ightaru
Number 3 on chuylers list is the most important thing to keep in mind in an FWD car.
In an FWD you may just feel like the car is going to understeer forever, but keep in mind that the majority of the cars weight is over the front wheels. This is the cause of on-throttle understeer, but it also means that there is less weight pushing the rear tires down.
When you transition to off throttle and apply the brakes the rear end will be even lighter and it will pivot quite easily. It's a different kind of oversteer to control compared to RWD because powering out of it will kill your corner exit speed. It's more of a way to get the car pointed towards the apex. When you have a clear exit line thats when you get back to full power.
I'd recommend getting the suspension upgrade that allows adjustable sway bars (not sure which one that is). Make the rear sway very stiff and the car should rotate really well.
I drive an Impreza in real life and they tend to understeer (on pavement). I've got a thick sway on the back and a smaller one up front. It works almost perfectly and I can actually pitch it in and make it tripod if the front grips hard enough*. Same deal with the 450pp EK Type-R I use on hot hatch night.
*my differential probably hates me
In an FWD you may just feel like the car is going to understeer forever, but keep in mind that the majority of the cars weight is over the front wheels. This is the cause of on-throttle understeer, but it also means that there is less weight pushing the rear tires down.
When you transition to off throttle and apply the brakes the rear end will be even lighter and it will pivot quite easily. It's a different kind of oversteer to control compared to RWD because powering out of it will kill your corner exit speed. It's more of a way to get the car pointed towards the apex. When you have a clear exit line thats when you get back to full power.
I'd recommend getting the suspension upgrade that allows adjustable sway bars (not sure which one that is). Make the rear sway very stiff and the car should rotate really well.
I drive an Impreza in real life and they tend to understeer (on pavement). I've got a thick sway on the back and a smaller one up front. It works almost perfectly and I can actually pitch it in and make it tripod if the front grips hard enough*. Same deal with the 450pp EK Type-R I use on hot hatch night.
*my differential probably hates me
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I really wonder what the potential for my '91 Miata is. I was only able to his 1:58 a few times; I was consistent at 2:00 by the end of the race. Does choosing a 0 mile car and taking the 5PP hit make that much of a difference?
- 126
no problem greg, i never thought it was intentional
in fact i wasn't even sure if i was possibly at fault there
i'm often prone to mistakes, and the last thing i want to do is negatively influence someone else's race because of a mistake
that's actually one of my goals in this series, is to not damage or otherwise negatively affect any other racers
we'll see if i can accomplish that over a number of long races
@ sl3ight,
cheers for the added info 👍
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