Lexus LF-A: The Long and Winding Road
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Thanks for the video, great lap. I love how he shifted down at the end but wanted to carry more speed before reapplication of the brakes so he holds it on limiter for a bit, a very rapid revving limiter at that. 
Can't have a long Japanese auto name like that without "Type" in there somewhere. I know most relate Honda to that but they all do it, Nissan especially (one of my cars is a "Type M").
Can't have a long Japanese auto name like that without "Type" in there somewhere. I know most relate Honda to that but they all do it, Nissan especially (one of my cars is a "Type M").
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Great vid, thanks for posting 👍. The sound is amazing and that driving was even better - nailed virtually ever apex and kept it buried when he should have 
Interesting that he gives the kerbs so much respect, unlike the realistic driving simulator which encourages virtually unlimited kerb hopping.
Interesting that he gives the kerbs so much respect, unlike the realistic driving simulator which encourages virtually unlimited kerb hopping.
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Wait, I'm confused. What makes the other three vehicles that are faster than it and that you can buy not production cars (particularly when they were standard examples of the cars you can buy, while the LF-A was modified to include a roll cage)?
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Aside from the fact that there are no official lap records anyway, which cars are you talking about Famine ?
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Indeed not.
The Radical SR8, the Radical SR8 LM and the Gumpert Apollo Sport - two of which also claim to be fastest production car around the 'Ring, all of which are in production at present and can be bought, all of which set their laptimes unmodified from the factory specification (the LF-A Nürburgring had a roll cage added for its laps).
Of the the four, the Lexus is the only one to have done a full closed-circuit 20,832m lap - the others did an industry Supertest 20,600m lap (skipping T13, which must not be taken at full speed due to the entrance/exit there) which is supposed to be around 7s shorter. That means the Lexus's time of 7'14.64 can be compared ahead of the Gumpert's time of 7'11.57. The two Radicals both beat 7 minutes though, at 6'55 and 6'48 and are both production, road legal vehicles. In fact here's the SR8 LM that set the 6'48 driving from Radical Sportscars in Peterborough to the Nürburgring on public roads. It also drove back again afterwards...
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I guess many websites/blogs aren't up-to-date anyway concerning these so-called fastest laps and/or records..you can be lucky most of them know how to spell Neurnbe..uh..Nuern.. Nürnbe..whatever..and that's about it. 
About those cars though, the SR8LM isn't streetlegal in Germany AFAIK. Don't know about the rest beside the fact they're not exactly production cars haha. But then, the LFA Nür isn't exactly either..
I always take these 'records' with a truck load of salt, more so because you might know that one lap isn't like the next lap on the Nordschleife, 10 seconds difference is nothing.
About those cars though, the SR8LM isn't streetlegal in Germany AFAIK. Don't know about the rest beside the fact they're not exactly production cars haha. But then, the LFA Nür isn't exactly either..
I always take these 'records' with a truck load of salt, more so because you might know that one lap isn't like the next lap on the Nordschleife, 10 seconds difference is nothing.
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They drove it from the factory in Peterborough to the Nürburgring, on public roads. Then they did some laps. Then they drove it home again, on public roads. And all on the same set of road legal tyres too.
Why?
Someone makes them in a factory and sells them to people. That's a production car. The car can legally be driven around on public roads. That's a production road car.
I'd say it qualifies less as a road car than the Radical. There's limited numbers (which doesn't automatically disqualify it - but I bet Radical sold more SR8 LMs at £70k than Lexus will sell LF-A Nürburgrings at £450k, even if they hadn't limited it to 50), the car used was modified and, most important of all, you can't buy one. It's not released until next year...
Not that this stops manufacturers crowing about four seconds. The GT-R was ten seconds behind the Lexus, but in the wet...
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A very poor arguement Famine, the Veyron SS is considered a road car yet is just a modified veyron, produced in very limited numbers and most likely you will never be able to have(or afford) one. When people think of road cars they often equate it to cars that has an enclosed cockpit not open cockpit road legal cars. The LFA is a road legal car in every sense, if the LFA NE does not qualify as a road legal car then the 911 GT2RS is not a road legal car, the (future) GTR Spec R is not road legal along with every special edition cars out there.
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No. The Veyron SS is, for lack of a better term, a trim level of the regular Veyron range. It is not a modified Veyron.
The Lexus LF-A used to set the "record" was a modified car, as it was fitted with equipment that will not be in the version that will be sold to the public. Granted, it was simply safety equipment, but safety equipment that may very well have contributed to the car's performance.
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In the UK, any car driven on our roads - whatever the origin - must conform to Construction and Use regulations. You cannot drive a non-UK-road-legal car on UK roads. Given that the TUV is far stricter than even the DVLA, I cannot imagine they'd be fine with anything less.
You have wholly misunderstood the point. Toronado has not:
The LF-A Nürburgring is not a modified car. When they sell it - which they don't yet - it'll be a normal production car. That particular LF-A Nürburgring was a modified car - it had an additional rollcage not fitted to the production LF-A Nürburgring - when they sell it.
Which is massively irrelevant. The Radical SR8, Radical SR8 LM and Gumpert Apollo Sport (which has an enclosed cockpit, and is German) were all cars made for road use and sold to the public. They're all production road cars and so the question remains - why, when the Lexus LF-A Nürburgring is slower around the Nürburgring Nordschleife than three other production road cars (with one being disputable due to differences in lap distances) do they claim to be the fastest production road car? What makes those three production road cars not production road cars - particularly when they were not modified as the LF-A Nürburgring was, not limited in production like the LF-A Nürburgring is and actually sold to people which the LF-A Nürburgring isn't yet?
You have wholly misunderstood the point. Toronado has not:
The LF-A Nürburgring is not a modified car. When they sell it - which they don't yet - it'll be a normal production car. That particular LF-A Nürburgring was a modified car - it had an additional rollcage not fitted to the production LF-A Nürburgring - when they sell it.
Which is massively irrelevant. The Radical SR8, Radical SR8 LM and Gumpert Apollo Sport (which has an enclosed cockpit, and is German) were all cars made for road use and sold to the public. They're all production road cars and so the question remains - why, when the Lexus LF-A Nürburgring is slower around the Nürburgring Nordschleife than three other production road cars (with one being disputable due to differences in lap distances) do they claim to be the fastest production road car? What makes those three production road cars not production road cars - particularly when they were not modified as the LF-A Nürburgring was, not limited in production like the LF-A Nürburgring is and actually sold to people which the LF-A Nürburgring isn't yet?
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About the Veyron, for those who dont know, that engine is capable of 3,000 hp. That would be a modified Veyron 
💡.
Nice vid of the LFA. I would like to see my favourite and epic Mines R34 do a lap there (its a mod R34 but we can drive it on the road).
💡. Nice vid of the LFA. I would like to see my favourite and epic Mines R34 do a lap there
(its a mod R34 but we can drive it on the road).
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Explain what this so called equipment's are, as far as i know the LFA-NE is being sold as it was ran in the Nurburgring.
I don't think you understand this whole thing, The normal LFA has a limited production run of 500, 50 of those 500 LFA's will be Nurburgring Edition which command a higher price tag than the normal LFA. The LFA-NE is absolutely a modified LFA but it was made by the same manufacturer with the same components that make up a normal LFA. The Veyron SS is a modified veyron because what they did was up the power and make it more aerodynamic (with suspension re-tuning and better tires to handle higher top speed) the LFA is exactly the same thing, it has a marginally higher power output, re-tuned suspension, a fixed rear wing and less weight. Their has been reports that the LFA (all 500 of them) has been sold out, not only that it's legal in all countries. Like i said the GT2 RS is basically a race prepped car and i don't see people whining about the supposed time it set around the ring, LFA-NE is the same as the GT2 RS, Veyron SS, GTR-spec R, Audi R8 GT and many others. They are all modified (low volume) versions of their brethren.
You know what? i cant answer that. Some feel that cars like Radical and Gumpert apollo does not count as road legal cars some on the other hand do, the only true way to settle this is for Nurburgring to get an organization who will label what cars goes where and how to truly set records there. I have a feeling that in the coming years time attacks will be taken more seriously at Nurburgring.
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None of this is relevant. The LF-A is a production car. The LF-A Nürburgring will also be a production car. The specific LF-A Nürburgring that did that lap is not, nor ever will be a production car because it was modified above and beyond the normal equipment of the LF-A Nürburgring (when it eventually goes on sale). It had a roll cage fitted that is not normal equipment on the LF-A Nürburgring.
The point wasn't that you can't call the LF-A Nürburgring a production car because it's modified (you can, because it isn't), but that the specific one that did the laptime was specifically modified above the normal specification of the eventual LF-A Nürburgring and does not represent a production model of the LF-A Nürburgring.
Car = car.
New version of car = new version of car.
New version of car with extra stuff on it they won't sell to you = modified new version of car.
But not a roll cage. The car that did that laptime had a roll cage. It is a modified version of the production car and thus does not represent a production car.
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I don't see how a roll cage adds to the performance that was already there, the car that set this record was the same car that was taking LFA customers around the track. No matter how good the driver is they have to take a measure of safety precautions to make sure that their customers feel safe, you are speaking as if you know for certain that this Nurburgring edition is completely different from the normal LFA-NE. It's understandable why that roll cage is in their and am sure that roll cage adds nothing significant to the time that was set.
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Nevertheless, as I said some time since, the particular example of Lexus LF-A Nürburgring that did the Nürburgring Nordschleife laptime is modified above the standard specification of Lexus LF-A Nürburgring and is thus no longer a production car and cannot lay any claim to holding the production car record - even assuming there is a record (which there isn't) and that it isn't actually slower than times set by three other production cars (which it is).
Which it didn't.
No I'm not. I'm speaking as if the specific LF-A Nürburgring that did the laptime is not representative of the eventual production LF-A Nürburgring because it is modified beyond the condition of the eventual production LF-A Nürburgring. That's what I said originally and repeatedly since.
Which is unimportant. What is important is that, with the roll cage it is no longer representative of the production car and, even if there was a production car record (which there isn't) and if it wasn't already slower than three other production cars (which it is), it has no claim to setting a production car record because... it isn't one!
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Actually, a roll cage adds stiffness to the whole body structure and therefore results in better torsional rigidity, allowing for better suspension and steering responses, although I sincerely doubt that it any extra stiffness would give any significant performance improvement on an already stiff carbon fibre chassi.
While I agree that the record was set on non-production spec model and therefore invalid in the sense of proving the production car as capable of doing the same, doing a lap as fast as that without protection would be suicidal.
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The LF-A is no more a production car than the Radical SR8 is. Discounting any nitpicking about tin-tops (which means a Miata is... what?), the Radical's record is still valid, as it was on street legal tires on a car that's road registered.
Never mind that it wasn't road-registered in Germany... just because a production McLaren F1 isn't/wasn't legal in the US without extensive modification doesn't make it any less of a street-legal production car. Same can probably be said of the Nissan R34 GT-R...
Never mind that it wasn't road-registered in Germany... just because a production McLaren F1 isn't/wasn't legal in the US without extensive modification doesn't make it any less of a street-legal production car. Same can probably be said of the Nissan R34 GT-R...
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Lexus needs to stop doodling their fingers, take whatever technologies they developed with the LFA, trim it down, and sell it at the price point of the Vettes, GT-Rs, and Uber Porsches.
But knowing Toyota, they'd sell it as a Hybrid.
They need Jeremy Clarkson as CEO or something.
But knowing Toyota, they'd sell it as a Hybrid.
They need Jeremy Clarkson as CEO or something.
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Jeremy "buys-a-Hummer-even-though-it-doesn't-fit-his-driveway" Clarkson or Jeremy "buys-a-Ford-GT-even-though-he-doesn't-fit-in-it" Clarkson?
The man has owned more interesting cars than most of us would ever consider, and half of them were horrible clunkers. His Alfa Romeo GTV6, on which both the exhaust and transmission fell out. His Land Rover... His old Scirocco...
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The LF-A wouldn't lend itself well to mass-production... the CF loom alone makes it wildly improbable. It's better if Toyota starts from the ground up if it wants to produce a Supra-like sports car... perhaps building on the bones of the FT86, instead.
There's a whole lot of practical engineering that goes into making a cheap sports car... just as much as in making a very expensive one. And the engineering that goes into making a cheap sportscar is often focused on making it cheap and reliable...
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He died outside the Nurburgring (near/on the 410 highway outside the ring?) That rollcage also adds more weight. Regardless, a rollcage is not included with the production model.
To me, most of these test performed on the ring by all these manufacturers are suspect anyway. Who really knows if cars are tuned and/or tampered with before their run. It is entertaining though. 👍
