Lexus LF-A: The Long and Winding Road

[Kent]

It was the cheif engineer and it was on a road that goes to and from the Ring. Rip.
That said, he was a very old man and the car involved was a bmw 5 or 7 so his chances of survival were lower just by circumstance.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Jeremy "buys-a-Hummer-even-though-it-doesn't-fit-his-driveway" Clarkson or Jeremy "buys-a-Ford-GT-even-though-he-doesn't-fit-in-it" Clarkson?

The man has owned more interesting cars than most of us would ever consider, and half of them were horrible clunkers. His Alfa Romeo GTV6, on which both the exhaust and transmission fell out. His Land Rover... His old Scirocco...

-----

The LF-A wouldn't lend itself well to mass-production... the CF loom alone makes it wildly improbable. It's better if Toyota starts from the ground up if it wants to produce a Supra-like sports car... perhaps building on the bones of the FT86, instead.

There's a whole lot of practical engineering that goes into making a cheap sports car... just as much as in making a very expensive one. And the engineering that goes into making a cheap sportscar is often focused on making it cheap and reliable...

Which is precisely why Lexus perhaps needs a lunatic like Clarkson to get their fun factor back.

And LF-A tech can be incorporated into a Supra-like sports car without driving up the costs and development.

 

[Kent]

If the LF-A isnt fun to someone Id have to question there understanding of the word fun. Just the sound alone would make it fun to me, hell, my civic was fun... I cant see how the LFA wouldnt be fun.
That said, keep in mind Lexus is not meant to be fun, its meant to be a soft AARP mover with a few obligatory models for competition's sake (sc430, is350).

 

[eSZee]

Well, TOP GEAR says it ain't fun, so you know it's true.
It's this whole subjective "soul" "character "x factor" thing.

 

[Kent]

Yeah top gear says so it must be true.

 

[freshseth83]

Going to have to correct people here.

First thing, Lexus NEVER CLAIMED this was a record run. Next, it was done by request of owners at the track. LFA OWNERS. Third, the cage adds weight, not stiffness, it wasn't a full on cage either. You don't need additional stiffness to a CARBON CHASSIS car. It's made from the same stuff F1 cars use. The cage was there for added safety, in case an accident happened, like a rollover. Fourth, it's the same spec as customers LFA's, you get the Nur Edition you get the exact same car minus the heavy, non-beneficial cage that was only added for journalists. Fifth, the cars tires are bridgestone potenza re070's. Which have more than double the tread wear rating any other car in this time bracket used. Think GT5's sports mediums to sports softs.

All this information is available @ clublexus.com. A son of an owner was there to verify everything I just stated.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Well, TOP GEAR says it ain't fun, so you know it's true.
It's this whole subjective "soul" "character "x factor" thing.

The fact that Top Gear claim you can't enjoy a Lexus because a Lexus badge is on the bonnet, makes their point laughable.

I'm a huge Top Gear fan, but I get annoyed time and time again when they use such a silly point as "Because it's a Lexus". It would appear one reviews a car with a closed mind.

 

[eSZee]

People need to stop taking them seriously. THat is all.
The show is meant to entertain, not shower you with facts and mathzzzz.

 

[niky]

Going to have to correct people here.

First thing, Lexus NEVER CLAIMED this was a record run. Next, it was done by request of owners at the track. LFA OWNERS. Third, the cage adds weight, not stiffness, it wasn't a full on cage either. You don't need additional stiffness to a CARBON CHASSIS car. It's made from the same stuff F1 cars use. The cage was there for added safety, in case an accident happened, like a rollover. Fourth, it's the same spec as customers LFA's, you get the Nur Edition you get the exact same car minus the heavy, non-beneficial cage that was only added for journalists. Fifth, the cars tires are bridgestone potenza re070's. Which have more than double the tread wear rating any other car in this time bracket used. Think GT5's sports mediums to sports softs.

All this information is available @ clublexus.com. A son of an owner was there to verify everything I just stated.

It was clear from the outset that Lexus was not claiming this was a record run... it was the blog-o-sphere that went ga-ga over the time and claimed it as a record for them, which is why Lexus had to issue the public correction.

-

Carbon fiber is not magic. It's stiff, but then, so is steel. A cage may not be fully triangulated, but it will still have some effect on a car, whether it's made of titanium, aluminum or carbon fiber.

 

[Pupik]

The fact that Top Gear claim you can't enjoy a Lexus because a Lexus badge is on the bonnet, makes their point laughable.

I'm a huge Top Gear fan, but I get annoyed time and time again when they use such a silly point as "Because it's a Lexus". It would appear one reviews a car with a closed mind.

The odd thing is the Jeremy Clarkson really liked the GS 350 back in '08, but thought its worst sin was being externally ugly (which is subjective of course; Lexus owners I dealt with thought the style was 50/50 ugly or nice-looking). Which actually surprised even me since they're the Word of God around this forum. Being an atheist, though...Oh well, label-whores abound in all colors and stripes. Never mind, I'll become religious if Ring-runs will suddenly become moot points due to my conversion.

Cages are helpful to protect images and journalists alike. Dead car flacks don't write very good reviews.

 

[freshseth83]

It was clear from the outset that Lexus was not claiming this was a record run... it was the blog-o-sphere that went ga-ga over the time and claimed it as a record for them, which is why Lexus had to issue the public correction.

-

Carbon fiber is not magic. It's stiff, but then, so is steel. A cage may not be fully triangulated, but it will still have some effect on a car, whether it's made of titanium, aluminum or carbon fiber.

It's a bolt in cage that was only put there for added safety of the Journalists testing the Nurburgring edition. You don't have to believe me, but from owners that were there, this is what was told to them. The car is already stiff enough, like I said, it's made of carbon fiber. The chassis is as stiff as any car on the road. They benchmarked the Carrera GT's chassis to make sure their's was as good or better. There's no need to have a cage for added performance. Like what was said, if anything, it added unneeded weight. carbon Fiber isn't magic, but it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.

 

[Famine]

Key words:

added ... added ... added

Added = Modified from production spec = Not production.

carbon Fiber isn't magic, but it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.

No it isn't The orbiter structure (the Shuttle is the orbiter/tank/booster assembly) is made of an aluminium alloy, with the engine housings made from a titanium alloy. Some of the Thermal Protection System tiles are made of reinforced carbon-carbon (carbon fibre strengthened graphite) - those on the nosecap and wing leading edges - to protect the orbiter against an 1800 degree temperature change over the course of six minutes (-120 degrees in space to +1650 degrees during reentry) and not for structural reasons.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Key words:



Added = Modified from production spec = Not production.



No it isn't The orbiter structure (the Shuttle is the orbiter/tank/booster assembly) is made of an aluminium alloy, with the engine housings made from a titanium alloy. Some of the Thermal Protection System tiles are made of reinforced carbon-carbon (carbon fibre strengthened graphite) - those on the nosecap and wing leading edges - to protect the orbiter against an 1800 degree temperature change over the course of six minutes (-120 degrees in space to +1650 degrees during reentry) and not for structural reasons.

Indeed. Carbon-carbon is surprisingly fragile, as the loss of Columbia revealed.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I give infinitely more journalistic credence to the more straight-forward Evo Magazine. In a recent comparo of theirs, the LF-A bested the 599 GTO...I'd say that's quite an accomplishment for Lexus. I'd rather have the LF-A than any other production car currently being made, and I despise Lexus.

 

[freshseth83]

Key words:



Added = Modified from production spec = Not production.



No it isn't The orbiter structure (the Shuttle is the orbiter/tank/booster assembly) is made of an aluminium alloy, with the engine housings made from a titanium alloy. Some of the Thermal Protection System tiles are made of reinforced carbon-carbon (carbon fibre strengthened graphite) - those on the nosecap and wing leading edges - to protect the orbiter against an 1800 degree temperature change over the course of six minutes (-120 degrees in space to +1650 degrees during reentry) and not for structural reasons.

If you got it out for the LFA you can save your time with the replies, I'm not here to argue. You seem to think the cage was ADDED for the purposes of going faster or making the car stiffer. Owners at the event sing another tune, as does Lexus. So it's your word, or the manufacturer. The space shuttle still has carbon fiber, like I said. It is made from it, be it the heat shield or something different. On top of it the cage adds weight to the car. ADDED weight. Like I said, go to the LFA forums on clublexus.com for the story.

 

[Famine]

You seem to think the cage was ADDED for the purposes of going faster or making the car stiffer.

No I don't. I have stated repeatedly only that the cage was added. The reason why it was added is irrelevant. It was added, which makes the car no longer production spec.

Owners at the event sing another tune, as does Lexus. So it's your word, or the manufacturer.

The manufacturer and I agree. They added a roll cage. Not seeing that we disagree, unless you make up something I didn't say and pretend I said it so you can attack a completely fabricated point... oh, wait.

The space shuttle still has carbon fiber, like I said. It is made from it, be it the heat shield or something different.

If the orbiter (the shuttle is still the orbiter/fuel tank/booster assembly) were made from carbon fibre it wouldn't need the thermal protection system... As it is carbon fibre has no structural part to play in the orbiter frame (which is aluminium) save for forming the shape of the wings' leading edges and is used in an wholly different capacity (thermal shock protection) and for an wholly different reason (not structural - the RCC tiles on the orbiter couldn't hold a wet fart, never mind a car) than in the Lexus LF-A.

I'm not here to argue.

You actually said the orbiter was made from carbon fibre. It isn't. You have imagined that I have said the roll cage was added for strength or stiffness and stated that I seem to think it. I didn't and don't. Making things up that are not true and stating them as fact? You certainly are here to argue.

If you got it out for the LFA

I have no interest in the LF-A. I am interested in factual inaccuracies - and claiming the LF-A holds or held the production car record for the Nordschleife when there is no record, three actual production cars hold faster times and the car tested was not a production spec car is one hell of a factual inaccuracy.

 

[sumbrownkid]

If the LF-A isnt fun to someone Id have to question there understanding of the word fun. Just the sound alone would make it fun to me, hell, my civic was fun... I cant see how the LFA wouldnt be fun.
That said, keep in mind Lexus is not meant to be fun, its meant to be a soft AARP mover with a few obligatory models for competition's sake (sc430, is350).

I didn't say that the LF-A is boring, it's far from it.

It's just that the current offerings besides the LF-A and IS-F are as fun as studying in a library.

 

[freshseth83]

No I don't. I have stated repeatedly only that the cage was added. The reason why it was added is irrelevant. It was added, which makes the car no longer production spec.



The manufacturer and I agree. They added a roll cage. Not seeing that we disagree, unless you make up something I didn't say and pretend I said it so you can attack a completely fabricated point... oh, wait.



If the orbiter (the shuttle is still the orbiter/fuel tank/booster assembly) were made from carbon fibre it wouldn't need the thermal protection system... As it is carbon fibre has no structural part to play in the orbiter frame (which is aluminium) save for forming the shape of the wings' leading edges and is used in an wholly different capacity (thermal shock protection) and for an wholly different reason (not structural - the RCC tiles on the orbiter couldn't hold a wet fart, never mind a car) than in the Lexus LF-A.



You actually said the orbiter was made from carbon fibre. It isn't. You have imagined that I have said the roll cage was added for strength or stiffness and stated that I seem to think it. I didn't and don't. Making things up that are not true and stating them as fact? You certainly are here to argue.



I have no interest in the LF-A. I am interested in factual inaccuracies - and claiming the LF-A holds or held the production car record for the Nordschleife when there is no record, three actual production cars hold faster times and the car tested was not a production spec car is one hell of a factual inaccuracy.

Lexus, nor I have said this was a record. I said they did a 7:14, and the car can be had with a cage FYI. It's actually an option if owners wish. It would probably be beneficial if it were a full cage, and not just a 4 or 6 point cage like the car had. I said the Shuttle was made of carbon fiber. I never said what specific part was made of it. If you aren't interested in the LFA, why are you commenting on it's non-record? Lexus never said it was a record. Auto sites claimed this. It's the fastest time for a Japanese car, for a mass produced automobile, that is until the Viper made it's run. Like I said, there's nothing for me to argue with you about. I stated the facts. The comments you made had me believing you were saying the time was bs because of some half-assed cage they put in for some journalists. lol- no big deal though. I'm just glad they put a time up, and it wasn't even planned. They could always go back again and put up a better time with a stripped LFA without any speakers or Navigation or stereo, or floor, or alcantara. I think that would be more modified from stock.

 

[Famine]

Lexus, nor I have said this was a record. Lexus never said it was a record.

Look for where I said that either of you did.

The comments you made had me believing you were saying the time was bs because of some half-assed cage they put in for some journalists.

Look for where I said that.

The issue here is that you're reading extra things into what was said. I only said that the car as tested is not representative of a production model (even if you ignore the fact that you cannot currently buy one and drive it away) and cannot be considered a production car. I didn't say "zomg, Lexus lied!", I didn't say "zomg, roll cage makes it fasta!!". I said that this car is not a production car and does not, as claimed, hold a non-existant record that it doesn't qualify for and for which it is too slow. That is the limit of what I said - anything beyond that is imagination and fabrication.

I said the Shuttle was made of carbon fiber. I never said what specific part was made of it.

My car's made of glass.

See how that works?

If you aren't interested in the LFA, why are you commenting on it's non-record?

The claim made is untrue. It's not fast enough, it's not a production car (the LF-A Nürburgring is - this particular one is not) and there isn't a record to hold. One of the requirements of the AUP of this site is that you do not post information you know to be untrue. Information was posted here which I know to be untrue and it has been corrected. Hopefully people will bear it in mind and not spread the fake version to other sites.

It's the fastest time for a Japanese car, for a mass produced automobile

The second one is untrue also. First, the LF-A is only being made in a run of 500. Second, the LF-A Nürburgring is only being made in a run of 50. That's not mass-production, and Gumpert and Radical have both sold more Apollos and SR8/SR8LM models than Lexus will ever sell LF-A Nürburgrings (even if you ignore the fact that there are currently none on the roads because they haven't been released yet).

I pointed out also that the SR8, SR8LM and Gumpert Apollo Sport all ran Supertest laps, which are around 7 seconds shorter (missing out T13), whereas the LF-A Nürburgring ran a full lap. Taking that 7 seconds into account, the Lexus is ahead of the Gumpert Apollo Sport, leaving it behind the two Radicals - the faster of which was built in Peterborough, driven from the factory to the Nürburgring, did its laps and driven back to the factory in Peterborough all on public roads, without modification from its sale specification and on the same single set of road tyres...

I think that would be more modified from stock.

Once it's modified at all from the production specification, it's no longer a production car and doesn't qualify for any production car record whether than record exists or not.

 

[freshseth83]

Look, I don't know if you understood my post, but I'm not getting worked up over little details that make this a 'false' time or whatever you're trying to claim. There's no use of carrying it any further. You mistook my post so I'm no longer going to speak about it. Seems to me whatever I say you're either not getting what I mean, or you're taking it the wrong way. If I say something that I thought, or assumed you meant. That's what I thought or assumed. I never said that it was so. Anyway, they set a 7:14 with the Nurburgring edition. It's the same car as you can buy when they produce them. That's what Lexus said. That's what I'm going to believe. All this mass produced, whatever, is petty details that don't need to be discussed at length. If you don't know the facts no reason to post them right? I understand. There's also the fact that an LFA owner if they so wish can upgrade to a Nurburgring edition. The suspension is the same, it's just lowered and reworked. The wing is fixed instead of self-raising. The splitter and canards are added. The interior is the same as the 'regular LFA' besides the carbon seats. The tires and wheels are lighter BBS units with Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires. There's nothing that makes the Nurburgring edition that much more than an LFA besides the package I listed and the track details. I'm done talking.

 

[Famine]

If I say something that I thought, or assumed you meant. That's what I thought or assumed. I never said that it was so.

Oh, the irony.

Look, I don't know if you understood my post, but I'm not getting worked up over little details that make this a 'false' time or whatever you're trying to claim.

I'm not claiming anything. This is the third time you've made something up and stated it as if it's fact and yet you berate me for reading things into your posts you haven't said?

There's no use of carrying it any further. You mistook my post so I'm no longer going to speak about it. Seems to me whatever I say you're either not getting what I mean, or you're taking it the wrong way.

Yes, because I'm stupid. When someone says "carbon Fiber isn't magic, but it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.", what they actually mean is "The space shuttle has some carbon fibre in it somewhere" and not "The space shuttle is made of carbon fibre" and it's my stupid fault for assuming otherwise.

Man up. You said "carbon Fiber isn't magic, but it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.". This is wholly false - the space shuttle (which is a fuel tank, a pair of boosters and the orbiter) is not "made of" carbon fibre. Dissembling "The space shuttle still has carbon fiber, like I said." - which is not what you said - and then blaming me for assuming you meant what you actually said is ridiculous beyond description. You were caught out with a factual inaccuracy. The correct response is "Quite right, I made a mistake."

Anyway, they set a 7:14 with the Nurburgring edition. It's the same car as you can buy when they produce them. That's what Lexus said. That's what I'm going to believe.

Lexus did not say that, because it's not true. The car that set the time had an additional roll cage not included in the production specification for that car. Here's the video, note the roll cage in the smaller picture:

​

Here's what Lexus say is additional, standard equipment on the Nürburgring edition above the LF-A:

The Nürburgring package includes a carbon fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP) front spoiler and fixed rear wing to enhance aerodynamic performance. The LFA Nürburgring Package also comes with track tuned suspension and custom wheels to improve maneuverability and stability. Compared to the standard LFA’s output of 412 kW (560 PS), the output of the LFA Nürburgring package has been raised to 420 kW (571 PS).

On the Nürburgring Nordschliefe (North Loop), where the LFA was extensively developed, professional race driver and LFA test driver, Akira Iida recorded a lap time of just 7:14.64. The tires used during the performance evaluation were Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires which are the standard road legal specification for this LFA.

See where it doesn't say "a roll cage" (or similar)? Here's the interior of the Lexus LF-A. Note the no roll cage:

The LF-A, though limited to 500, is a production car. The LF-A Nürburgring, though limited to 50 of those 500, is a production car. The particular LF-A Nürburgring that set the Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time is not a production car because it was modified beyond the standard specification of the LF-A Nürburgring.

I don't know why this needs repeating again and again. Lexus say it. I say it. The evidence says it. The roll cage is additional, non-standard equipment.

All this mass produced, whatever, is petty details that don't need to be discussed at length.

They're petty details most people bring up against the Radicals. Don't know why.

If you don't know the facts no reason to post them right?

Apparently it hasn't stopped you objecting to them when they are posted by people who do know the facts.

There's also the fact that an LFA owner if they so wish can upgrade to a Nurburgring edition. The suspension is the same, it's just lowered and reworked. The wing is fixed instead of self-raising. The splitter and canards are added. The interior is the same as the 'regular LFA' besides the carbon seats. The tires and wheels are lighter BBS units with Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires. There's nothing that makes the Nurburgring edition that much more than an LFA besides the package I listed and the track details.

Yet none of this is relevant in any way. The car lapped was modified beyond the standard of the LF-A Nürburgring package and thus it is not a standard production car. The lap it achieved was slower than three (arguably two) other cars which are standard production cars. There is no record for Nürburgring Nordchleife laptimes of road cars. So it doesn't qualify for a lap record it is too slow for and which doesn't exist in any case.

 

[Bram Turismo]

The LF-A, though limited to 500, is a production car. The LF-A Nürburgring, though limited to 50 of those 500, is a production car. The particular LF-A Nürburgring that set the Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time is not a production car because it was modified beyond the standard specification of the LF-A Nürburgring

Although I understand your post Famine, I do get a slight feeling you refuse to admit this is an impressive lap-time nonetheless from a company such as Lexus.

I do understand the roll-cage bit, but exactly how much slower would this car have gotten round the track without one? My view? Not very much slower, if at all.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Yeah when you get past the semantics, you realize a few things. One is that the cage does absolutley nothing for the car most likely and the other is that Nurburgring laps are so loosely done, standards don't really matter anyways. I wish they would find a better circuit to do their phallic-size competitions honestly. Something more the length and complexity of Spa would be more telling about the car, rather than the driver.

 

[Kent]

I love the LFA but I can see that Famine isnt saying it would be faster or slower. Hes making two very simple statements.
1) the cage equipped LFA is not a production model.
2) there are other cars (technically production street cars) that have faster laps.

That adds up to Lexus not being eligiable for the record on that run and not having beat the actual fastest laps by a production street car.

That said, I think its a great feat showing the LFA's potential in a total package way.

Frankly it reminds me of the recent sti run that had slight mods but couldnt be production because of those mods.

Btw, I think of the LFA as a favorite imho only to be compared with the likes of gtr, 458, cayman r, and other very fast, very sexy cars.

 

[Moglet]

Although I understand your post Famine, I do get a slight feeling you refuse to admit this is an impressive lap-time nonetheless from a company such as Lexus.

I do understand the roll-cage bit, but exactly how much slower would this car have gotten round the track without one? My view? Not very much slower, if at all.

That's not the point though, he never said he would have been slower, he just said that it's not a production spec car. Which it isn't.

 

[Famine]

I love the LFA but I can see that Famine isnt saying it would be faster or slower. Hes making two very simple statements.
1) the cage equipped LFA is not a production model.
2) there are other cars (technically production street cars) that have faster laps.

That adds up to Lexus not being eligiable for the record on that run and not having beat the actual fastest laps by a production street car.

That said, I think its a great feat showing the LFA's potential in a total package way.

Frankly it reminds me of the recent sti run that had slight mods but couldnt be production because of those mods.

Btw, I think of the LFA as a favorite imho only to be compared with the likes of gtr, 458, cayman r, and other very fast, very sexy cars.

That's not the point though, he never said he would have been slower, he just said that it's not a production spec car. Which it isn't.

These.

The effect of the cage to the lap time is irrelevant. My opinions on the lap time are irrelevant. This is why I have made no reference to either. The plain, bald facts are that the specific example used for the lap time is not a production spec car as it was modified beyond that specification, it didn't beat the standing fastest production car lap time anyway even it had been one and there isn't a record for it to hold even if it hadn't been ineligible and not fast enough.

That is the very limit of the point I have been making and the very limit of the scope of my posts. Any other conclusions people want to come to after reading them are their own and not mine.

 

[freshseth83]

Famine, with all due respect, I see assumptions on your part, the same thing which you accuse me of. So I think my point stands.

For instance, Where did I say you were stupid? You claimed that. Just like you saying I claimed something which I never stated, the space shuttle issue. A vague comment is all it is. The fact that the LFA is carbon fiber, and it's used on the Shuttle, and is apart of it's construction, means the shuttle is made of it, even if in part.

And the cage might not be 'standard' equipment, but it can be had with it. So yeah, there you go. It's not modified. It's an option. Just because you found articles online that are over a year old stating the additions to the Nurburgring edition doesn't mean the car can't change before the first one is ordered. By your own admission, you say they haven't sold one yet, so who's to say what is and isn't 'production'? This is why I came here with facts from owners who attended the event at the Nurburgring.

There's nothing else that need be said or argued about. The cage even adds weight. And with a carbon fiber chassis there's not going to be any added stiffness. And again, you keep talking about the 'record' part. I don't know why, I never said it was a record run. I said they ran 7:14, that's it. The back and forth is pointless. I never claimed the LFA was faster than anything there. I never said it was a record setter. I came here with the truth, truth from people in the know. I gave you the website where this was discussed. I gave the information in a truthful manner. Picking apart my comment for little things like the space shuttle's construction materials? I made a comparison, saying that the materials used were on an exotic piece of machinery such as the shuttle. No need to argue with me about it. I'm not arguing with you. Nor am I picking out things from your comment. Tell me what's added if the cage can be had as an option? Nothing. So I'm sorry if it turned into a debate, but that's not my intention. But everything I spoke comes from the mouths of people who were there.

 

[Famine]

I'm done talking.

Famine, with all due respect, I see assumptions on your part, the same thing which you accuse me of. So I think my point stands.

For instance, Where did I say you were stupid? You claimed that.

*sigh* No I didn't. I phrased it as a rhetorical question. You've actually ascribed mindsets and thoughts to me without basis.

Just like you saying I claimed something which I never stated, the space shuttle issue.

Excuse me? You stated - stated - that "carbon Fiber isn't magic, but it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.". I didn't make that up. You posted it. It is not true and I corrected it. You've since dissembled that you didn't mean wholly made of, just some bits of it - but you stated "it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.". It is not. The space shuttle - which is, for the fourth time now, the orbiter attached to the external fuel tank and the SRBs and not the orbiter on its own - not "made of" carbon fibre any more than this Ford Probe is "made of carbon fibre" or my car is "made of" glass. The orbiter is made of aluminium. Some of the thermal protection tiles - which the orbiter wouldn't need if it were made of carbon fibre - are made of graphite, reinforced with carbon fibre. It's an wholly different composition used in an wholly different application - they can't stand large loadings, for example, unlike carbon fibre used to make cars and car components.

You made a wildly inaccurate, sweeping statement that was corrected. The correct procedure is to accept the new knowledge and use it to improve what you know about the world, not pretend you meant something else.

And the cage might not be 'standard' equipment, but it can be had with it.

Now you are disagreeing with Lexus.

So yeah, there you go. It's not modified. It's an option.

And again.

Just because you found articles online that are over a year old stating the additions to the Nurburgring edition doesn't mean the car can't change before the first one is ordered.

And now you're disagreeing with Lexus and grasping at straws. A year old press release includes their Nordschleife lap time?

Feel free to post up the Lexus-origin spec sheet that includes a roll cage - you already posted up a quoted spec sheet from Lexus with, gosh, no mention of one...

By your own admission, you say they haven't sold one yet, so who's to say what is and isn't 'production'?

Lexus are.

There's nothing else that need be said or argued about.

Yeah, you said you were "done talking" last time. I don't believe this any more than I believed that.

The cage even adds weight.

Irrelevant. The cage is added.

And with a carbon fiber chassis there's not going to be any added stiffness.

Irrelevant. The cage is added.

And again, you keep talking about the 'record' part. I don't know why, I never said it was a record run. I said they ran 7:14, that's it.

And I never claimed otherwise. The world does not revolve around you. I am debunking the claim that the LF-A set the record lap time for production cars - it did not as the specific example used isn't a production car, it didn't beat the existing laptimes and there is no record.

I came here with the truth, truth from people in the know.

[Citation needed]

Lexus make no mention of the roll cage added to this car being available for the production car. It is not included on the spec sheet.

Picking apart my comment for little things like the space shuttle's construction materials? I made a comparison, saying that the materials used were on an exotic piece of machinery such as the shuttle. No need to argue with me about it.

There is because that isn't what you said. See the second comment in this post.

Tell me what's added if the cage can be had as an option?

Show me the Lexus spec sheet with the roll cage on it. Specifically, show me the Lexus spec sheet where they specify, on a $450,000 car,:

some half-assed cage they put in for some journalists

because nothing - nothing - Lexus have published make any mention of it.


The specific Lexus LF-A Nürburgring used to set a 7'14 lap of the Nürburgring Nordschleife was altered beyond the standard production specification stated by Lexus. It is thus not able to qualify for a production car lap record that it is not fast enough for and which, in any case, does not exist. That is the limit of what I have been saying and what you have found so objectionable that you've argued with (while stating you're not arguing).

 

[Keef]

The Nurburgring competitions are why I liked the Japanese show Best Motoring so much. They tested production cars on Tsukuba usually, which as well all no is only 1/4 mile long and impossible to screw up. Fast cars win, slow cars lose.

 

[freshseth83]

*sigh* No I didn't. I phrased it as a rhetorical question. You've actually ascribed mindsets and thoughts to me without basis.



Excuse me? You stated - stated - that "carbon Fiber isn't magic, but it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.". I didn't make that up. You posted it. It is not true and I corrected it. You've since dissembled that you didn't mean wholly made of, just some bits of it - but you stated "it is the stuff the damn space shuttle is made of.". It is not. The space shuttle - which is, for the fourth time now, the orbiter attached to the external fuel tank and the SRBs and not the orbiter on its own - not "made of" carbon fibre any more than this Ford Probe is "made of carbon fibre" or my car is "made of" glass. The orbiter is made of aluminium. Some of the thermal protection tiles - which the orbiter wouldn't need if it were made of carbon fibre - are made of graphite, reinforced with carbon fibre. It's an wholly different composition used in an wholly different application - they can't stand large loadings, for example, unlike carbon fibre used to make cars and car components.

You made a wildly inaccurate, sweeping statement that was corrected. The correct procedure is to accept the new knowledge and use it to improve what you know about the world, not pretend you meant something else.



Now you are disagreeing with Lexus.



And again.



And now you're disagreeing with Lexus and grasping at straws. A year old press release includes their Nordschleife lap time?

Feel free to post up the Lexus-origin spec sheet that includes a roll cage - you already posted up a quoted spec sheet from Lexus with, gosh, no mention of one...



Lexus are.



Yeah, you said you were "done talking" last time. I don't believe this any more than I believed that.



Irrelevant. The cage is added.



Irrelevant. The cage is added.



And I never claimed otherwise. The world does not revolve around you. I am debunking the claim that the LF-A set the record lap time for production cars - it did not as the specific example used isn't a production car, it didn't beat the existing laptimes and there is no record.



[Citation needed]

Lexus make no mention of the roll cage added to this car being available for the production car. It is not included on the spec sheet.



There is because that isn't what you said. See the second comment in this post.



Show me the Lexus spec sheet with the roll cage on it. Specifically, show me the Lexus spec sheet where they specify, on a $450,000 car,:



because nothing - nothing - Lexus have published make any mention of it.


The specific Lexus LF-A Nürburgring used to set a 7'14 lap of the Nürburgring Nordschleife was altered beyond the standard production specification stated by Lexus. It is thus not able to qualify for a production car lap record that it is not fast enough for and which, in any case, does not exist. That is the limit of what I have been saying and what you have found so objectionable that you've argued with (while stating you're not arguing).

Irrelevant, not arguing.