Lexus LFA Non-Racing Cars Super Lap - Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit

[ODB]

(it's easy to spend too much time fiddling with the tune when simply driving better wil lead to different results).

Well this is one really important reason I don't wan't to fiddle with tunes too much, I think I can learn more just by driving around the track.

Also... I'm not sure just how GT6 weight transfer works with raised front ride... I would expect a car with max front/min rear to understeer horrendously off the brakes or on the gas, but you get the opposite in the game So not sure if you can think rationally about this in relation to brake off oversteer!

And hears another reason, I mean I don't know quite anything when it comes to real life car suspension tuning, but even more difficult this issue makes that most of the time game doesn't seem to give sort of "rational" response when it comes to tuning, I
mean I've red some conversation of camber tuning and I was about go crazy but yeah, it's great to have this sort of open conversation going on 👍

 

[Stotty]

And hears another reason, I mean I don't know quite anything when it comes to real life car suspension tuning, but even more difficult this issue makes that most of the time game doesn't seem to give sort of "rational" response when it comes to tuning, I
mean I've red some conversation of camber tuning and I was about go crazy but yeah, it's great to have this sort of open conversation going on 👍

I understand a decent amount of real life, BUT....

As an analogy... In my work, I see a huge amount of shopper and sales data (internal and external). When I'm looking at this data and I see a data point that is inconsistent I mentally start to question all the data.

In GT6, IMO, most settings work pretty much as expected, BUT, as ride height works incorrectly and camber is FUBAR, and parts of the physics engine make a car handle very differently to real life, I could question all settings in relation to how I think about real life.

So my approach with GT is to try and forget what I know in real life and stick with what I know works in the game. Fortunately I'm a reasonably good driver, so I can feel quite minor changes and the effect they have on the car.

If you venture in to the tuning forum there are people who are at best, average drivers, but know a huge amount about real life suspension. These are the people who end up in massive real life theoretical discussions about camber/caster/thrust angles/tyre flex/etc and how these all interact. This is, IMO, intellectual masturbation - attempting to prove that one knows more than another through more and more complex discussion. They then try and reverse engineer their theory in to GT. Madness

I would guess that everyone that tunes seriously has a process they follow, and a few 'tricks' or 'techniques' they prefer to use. Personally, I use LSD, ride height, rear toe and brake balance as the primary tuning elements. I'm comfortable with them, I know how they affect a car in the 3 phases I mentioned earlier, and I know how to adjust one to fix a particular issue without ruining the car in another area (ie; the positives and negatives of rear toe, as mention earlier). But there's still a huge amount of trial and error

 

[Stotty]

Not going to edit my previous post for this as it's sort of unrelated

Just had 30 mins after work and pretty much nailed it (for me!).

I knew I was on for a good session when I ran a 1'27.365 on only my 3rd lap. Then spent 15 mins getting way ahead of my ghost only to screw up one of the corners on the back side. Eventually hit a 1'27.298 with a big slide on the exit of the final corner . Kept running and shortly after managed to hold a full lap together for 1'27.089 and 9th.

I was very chuffed and was going to leave it at that, but decided to try a couple of adjustments @matej2547 had suggested on PSN.

Only ran 1 lap...

1'27.028 for 6th

As always, no matter how fast I run, and how close to perfect I think my lap is, it's always humbling to look up and see @Rajman 0.8s ahead

 

[dolande]

Deleted

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Ok thanks for the answer!!I think I was detecting that mid corner understeer but frankly that tail flying out all the time was such a huge issue I had to apply some rear +toe just to get it under some sort of control. And these things come up pretty simple when reading tuning guides but it just ain't that simple, although I finally start to have some sort of idea how to mod some tunes but people are coming up with such different setups that it's a total mystery what they're doing. Maybe I should desert these ready tunes and just find the way... I just don't want to get out my comfort zone

I think I try it out without that rear toe and see what I can do by adjusting just brakes and opening the lsd decel (or maybe just leave it to keep more control) I think I started to have some sort of touch to this combo yesterday... It's like I've been tuning my body and head for couple of days just to get used to this low grip fast speed action

EDIT: and yeah, I think a part of this snap oversteer issue is that now I'm driving car with as soft front spring as they get, and ride height all the way up so on braking all the weight just flies to front and after brake release all the weight transfer really suddenly to rear causing all sorts of trouble... I mean what does it help to have such soft front? Is it necessary for some reason? I know you didn't make the tune, just asking for opinion to get some sort of idea what's that all about


And @GTP_CargoRatt damn you must have some sensitive braking foot, I've been basically practicing on my braking using your tune, I mean it's super sensitive and I can almost control the amount that the nose drops, if I'm really careful... Is that the idea on that really soft front, to have ultimate control on the cars nose?[/QUOTE]


I'll save my "intellectual masturbation" as not to steer anyone down the wrong path with my amateur tuning and advice. Looks like @Stotty as you covered anyway, so all should be good for you. 👍

I would like to further say that I have never claimed to have all the answers or force my tuning technique on anyone. When I release a tune, I always say that it is tuned for my style and how I want the car to handle. If someone else finds it useful, then great, that's just an added bonus. 👍 I am at best an average tuner/ driver, and I don't pretend to be anything more than that. I will leave the tuning and advice to the experts from now on that truly know what they are doing.

@Stotty As for your comments about the tuning section, I kind of take offense to that. You see, those guys are my friends also and they are the very ones that have helped me understand tuning. They have been very good to me and taught me a lot along the way. And, I have also been apart of those discussions that you call "intellectual masturbation", that's why I take offense to your comments. I'm just letting you know how I feel here and not trying to start anything here. Having said this, I hold no ill will towards you and would like to continue being a friend. I just consider it like this: Two friends with differing opinions, letting each other know how they feel about said opinions, then moving on continuing with the friendship. 👍 In closing and like I said before, I'll just leave the tuning and advice to the great ones like yourself. I mean after all, you can't argue with your success in these events. Nice improvement on your lap by the way, epic time you put down.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Ok thanks for the answer!!I think I was detecting that mid corner understeer but frankly that tail flying out all the time was such a huge issue I had to apply some rear +toe just to get it under some sort of control. And these things come up pretty simple when reading tuning guides but it just ain't that simple, although I finally start to have some sort of idea how to mod some tunes but people are coming up with such different setups that it's a total mystery what they're doing. Maybe I should desert these ready tunes and just find the way... I just don't want to get out my comfort zone

I think I try it out without that rear toe and see what I can do by adjusting just brakes and opening the lsd decel (or maybe just leave it to keep more control) I think I started to have some sort of touch to this combo yesterday... It's like I've been tuning my body and head for couple of days just to get used to this low grip fast speed action

EDIT: and yeah, I think a part of this snap oversteer issue is that now I'm driving car with as soft front spring as they get, and ride height all the way up so on braking all the weight just flies to front and after brake release all the weight transfer really suddenly to rear causing all sorts of trouble... I mean what does it help to have such soft front? Is it necessary for some reason? I know you didn't make the tune, just asking for opinion to get some sort of idea what's that all about


And @GTP_CargoRatt damn you must have some sensitive braking foot, I've been basically practicing on my braking using your tune, I mean it's super sensitive and I can almost control the amount that the nose drops, if I'm really careful... Is that the idea on that really soft front, to have ultimate control on the cars nose?[/QUOTE]

Disregard.

 

[Sidebrowns]

I don't want to bring @Sidebrowns' wrath upon me so I'll just say that this car on SH tires is a real handful.

I can agree it's a handful for sure! I just think those that were saying it handles bad were being a bit harsh. It probably handles like a dream for those who can tame it. I am not one who can tame it but maybe occasionally trick it into doing what I want it to.

 

[Dynamite_Dave]

I can agree it's a handful for sure! I just think those that were saying it handles bad were being a bit harsh. It probably handles like a dream for those who can tame it. I am not one who can tame it but maybe occasionally trick it into doing what I want it to.

Same here!

 

[Sidebrowns]

Dynamite_Dave i think it's more than occasionally for you; You're over a second ahead of me! (I'm Chauncimal on your friends list)

 

[Dynamite_Dave]

Dynamite_Dave i think it's more than occasionally for you; You're over a second ahead of me! (I'm Chauncimal on your friends list)

Ah yes! Keep at it!

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Great to see the competiveness here between friends. 👍 The more you push each other, the better you all will become. 👍 So yea, keep at it and do that thing!!!!!

 

[IBZ6L20VT]

As always, no matter how fast I run, and how close to perfect I think my lap is, it's always humbling to look up and see @Rajman 0.8s ahead

I do know that feeling... but the difference is that mine goes like this: Wow, I ran a perfect lap, faster than I could imagine, but... I'm still 1,6 sec behind @Stotty

Congratulations on that great time . I will download your ghost and try to follow it, just to learn a bit from you.

Btw, I gave a quick try your tune but @GTP_CargoRatt's fits better with my driving style. Maybe if I manage to change my driving style I could take more advantage of your tune.

 

[ODB]

Ok I see. I mean I'm just trying to suck in as much ideas about tuning and everything else related to GT since I like this game very very much. And when stotty said about intellectual masturbation he was directing that note to me. I mean he was just making it clear to me why I don't manage to make any sense out of those tuning conversations (at least I think he wasn't aiming that comment to anyone but me) and to be honest there's nothing wrong about intellectual masturbating, it's just bit problematic if every damn thread becomes one and guys like me can't make any sense of them what so ever... And I can't even participate because the lack of knowledge "missing all the fun" can lead to unwanted outcomes, one could say... (now this post is turning to be intellectual masturbation )

Great to see the competiveness here between friends. 👍 The more you push each other, the better you all will become. 👍 So yea, keep at it and do that thing!!!!!

Yeah, this is what it's all about. As long as the competition don't turn ugly and people start taking it too personally. And when I was asking about your tune I wasn't trying to be a smart ass, I'm really just trying to get inside the tuners head so maybe I could be as fat as him (hmmm, was meant to write as fast as him but that's kind of funny sentence )



EDIT: what the hell they have done to reply button

 

[ALB123]

I don't think Stotty was trying to say that discussions about tuning methods are useless or anything like that. Of course members are going to have to share tuning ideas if they want to get better. I think he was just trying to point out that GT6 has a very limited (and in some cases, completely FUBAR) set of tuning options. We all know that various tuning options don't necessarily work as they do in the real world. Rather than spending pages and pages of debate on proving how much one knows about "real world tuning", just accept the limitations of GT6 and do what you must to achieve your tuning goals.

 

[Stotty]

The comment was not directed at you, @ODB, nor was it directed at @GTP_CargoRatt, even though he seems to have taken it personally.

'll save my "intellectual masturbation" as not to steer anyone down the wrong path with my amateur tuning and advice. Looks like @@Stotty as you covered anyway, so all should be good for you. 👍

I would like to further say that I have never claimed to have all the answers or force my tuning technique on anyone. When I release a tune, I always say that it is tuned for my style and how I want the car to handle. If someone else finds it useful, then great, that's just an added bonus. 👍 I am at best an average tuner/ driver, and I don't pretend to be anything more than that. I will leave the tuning and advice to the experts from now on that truly know what they are doing.

@Stotty As for your comments about the tuning section, I kind of take offense to that. You see, those guys are my friends also and they are the very ones that have helped me understand tuning. They have been very good to me and taught me a lot along the way. And, I have also been apart of those discussions that you call "intellectual masturbation", that's why I take offense to your comments.

*sigh*

I nearly missed this as you somehow replied within the collapsed OBD quote… I kind of wished I had missed it and I had intended not to respond. However, as ODB and ALB123 have already replied, I think it best I clarify...

The 1st part of your post makes it sound like the discussion I was having with OBD on general tuning principles was somehow a direct criticism of you and your tune. I can assure you that you were never once in my mind when I wrote any of those posts. I made it clear that these were my personal views and specifically said, ‘other tuners may have a different philosophy’… Any perceived personal insult is entirely in your own mind.

You provide valuable tunes for the Seasonal Forum. The I time is set on this TT last evening was done in a car with your basic tune. I (and others) have given you credit for the tune. I have shared the changes I made and the reasons I've made them... stop looking for a hidden agenda or meaning to take personal offense at where none exits.

With regard to the tuning forum and the 'intellectual masturbation' comment… Again, not directed at you, I didn’t mention anyone by names (and I guess you're not friends with everyone who posts in the tuning forum), nor did I refer to any particular thread. You choose to interpret this as a personal insult.

However, as you decided to bring it up, and it further proves my point...

You were I believe, (briefly, and towards the end of the discussion) part of 1 thread in the tuning forum on 'if camber worked' (post 1.11) that subsequently turned in to '-ve front toe was needed to make camber work'. I spent nearly 3 hours testing and posted the data in the thread - the data didn't support either of these theories.

Did those who believed camber worked subsequently post any data to prove their point? No. They simply posted more real life theory.

I didn't do this to belittle anyone. I did it as I believe there are certain threads in the tuning forum that are misleading for members who can't tune themselves and choose to trust what they read in there - and who will end up with cars that handle worse as a result.

So I stand by my comments…any level of discussion about how settings directly affect cars in GT6 is always valuable, but attempting to reverse engineer complex real life theory in to GT6 is, IMO, a waste of time. I’ve suggested to some individuals that they come in here and post some set ups to show how their theory translates in to the game, but they have, so far, chosen not to. Until they do, I will continue to see their views as exactly what they are - theory (or intellectual masturbation ) .

 

[ALB123]

I apologize @Stotty, I shouldn't have added to a discussion that I wasn't a part of. It was none of my business and I certainly didn't respond with the intention of making this more muddied. For the parties involved, please accept my apologies.

 

[IBZ6L20VT]

So... back on topic.

I followed @Stotty's ghost and I shaved a few tenths. It was very useful because I learned a few weak points in my laps, where I was accelerating late. Now I've done a 1:28.375, but I screwed some better laps, so probably I could make it better in the weekend, with more time to practice. I used @GTP_CargoRatt's tune, without any change to it. It fits perfectly with the way I drive.

P.S.: Off topic. Hope you guys find a meeting point and finally stop the arguing. I know that none of you meant to be rude with each other or criticise the way of the other face tuning. I think that all of this is a complete misunderstood and could be solved quickly with a little open minded talk

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

So... back on topic.

I followed @Stotty's ghost and I shaved a few tenths. It was very useful because I learned a few weak points in my laps, where I was accelerating late. Now I've done a 1:28.375, but I screwed some better laps, so probably I could make it better in the weekend, with more time to practice. I used @GTP_CargoRatt's tune, without any change to it. It fits perfectly with the way I drive.

P.S.: Off topic. Hope you guys find a meeting point and finally stop the arguing. I know that none of you meant to be rude with each other or criticise the way of the other face tuning. I think that all of this is a complete misunderstood and could be solved quickly with a little open minded talk

Not arguing at all, matter of fact, quite the contrary. I even stated as much in my initial post. Here, I'll quote the part that I said earlier that Stotty so thoughtfully left out when he quoted me.


"I'm just letting you know how I feel here and not trying to start anything here. Having said this, I hold no ill will towards you and would like to continue being a friend. I just consider it like this: Two friends with differing opinions, letting each other know how they feel about said opinions, then moving on continuing with the friendship. 👍 In closing and like I said before, I'll just leave the tuning and advice to the great ones like yourself. I mean after all, you can't argue with your success in these events. Nice improvement on your lap by the way, epic time you put down. "

As far as I'm concerned its a done deal. I told him how I felt and then he came back and told me his feelings....I'm perfectly fine leaving it at that and moving on.

 

[GTsail]

Now I've done a 1:28.375

Arrrrrg!!

You've got me by 0.078 seconds!

I've already spent another hour trying to go faster with no success.

Well done!👍
GTsail

 

[matej2547]

Hi guys! Here is my tune for the Lexus LFA '10. Thanks to Stotty for some suspension, brakes and LSD tips, also thanks to Cargo Ratt for the dampers and anti roll bars settings. With the ds3 I'm currently on 1:27:056 but I see another 2-3 tenths with a perfect lap.

Lexus LFA '10

580 pp
657 bhp
1218 kg

suspension:
110 80
5.45 9.03
4 8
4 8
1 3
0.0 0.0
0.00 0.00

brakes:
6 2

transmission:
final to 5000 (max) then max speed to 240kmh (min)
1 3312
2 2373
3 1924
4 1615
5 1376
6 1157
final 4048

LSD:
7 12 5

power:
97.9%

all parts except engine tuning, no oil change
+all weight reductions
+rigidity improvement

 

[IBZ6L20VT]

Arrrrrg!!

You've got me by 0.078 seconds!

I've already spent another hour trying to go faster with no success.

Well done!👍
GTsail

Well, I did a quick run of half an hour and made an amazing (for my skills) 1:28.007. 46th of the rankings. Please, don't give up. We were climbing up in the rankings together and it was an incentive to catch you. Also, yesterday I was unable to get into my best time at the moment, but today, with a fresh start, I made quite a big improvement. Surely you'll find the pace.

Not arguing at all, matter of fact, quite the contrary. I even stated as much in my initial post. Here, I'll quote the part that I said earlier that Stotty so thoughtfully left out when he quoted me.


"I'm just letting you know how I feel here and not trying to start anything here. Having said this, I hold no ill will towards you and would like to continue being a friend. I just consider it like this: Two friends with differing opinions, letting each other know how they feel about said opinions, then moving on continuing with the friendship. 👍 In closing and like I said before, I'll just leave the tuning and advice to the great ones like yourself. I mean after all, you can't argue with your success in these events. Nice improvement on your lap by the way, epic time you put down. "

As far as I'm concerned its a done deal. I told him how I felt and then he came back and told me his feelings....I'm perfectly fine leaving it at that and moving on.

Ok, I didn't follow the whole conversation as it was made in another thread. Anyway, I more than glad to see that everything is solved (if it needed to be solved somehow). I respect a lot both of you and would be a pity to lost to some extent your valuable comments. I've never got that high in a TT and I owe both of you been there. Really. Your tune is great, perfect for me. You pushed me up with your encouraging comments and I also took advantage of Stotty's great advices. Even following his ghost was partly my key to success today.

Cheers guys! Keep pushing!

 

[Stotty]

Hi guys! Here is my tune for the Lexus LFA '10. Thanks to Stotty for some suspension, brakes and LSD tips, also thanks to Cargo Ratt for the dampers and anti roll bars settings. With the ds3 I'm currently on 1:27:056 but I see another 2-3 tenths with a perfect lap.

Lexus LFA '10

580 pp
657 bhp
1218 kg

suspension:
110 80
5.45 9.03
4 8
4 8
1 3
0.0 0.0
0.00 0.00

brakes:
6 2

transmission:
final to 5000 (max) then max speed to 240kmh (min)
1 3312
2 2373
3 1924
4 1615
5 1376
6 1157
final 4048

LSD:
7 12 5

power:
97.9%

all parts except engine tuning, no oil change
+all weight reductions
+rigidity improvement

Pretty much what I used, just slightly more rake on mine 👍

Always amazes me how fast you are with the DS3, especially on a tough TT like this one!

 

[BenMillard]

I don't want to bring @Sidebrowns' wrath upon me so I'll just say that this car on SH tires is a real handful. This feels more like a drift TT than anything else to me and I'm not fond of drifting. In any case, this car is now going to a retirement home with 82 miles on the odometer. Farewell.

Here's my 1:30.384 lap.

@t_wilson01 your ghost was the target I was using to improve my times around here. You take an extraordinary wide entry and lane apex at the Druids hairpin! I also have @SW__10 ghost which stays super tight. I matched him through Paddock Hill bend with the Nurburgring version but.

Switched to 2010 LFA using @GTP_CargoRatt original tune with @Stotty recent adjustments and my best laps are now seconds faster. Similar time to you but usually 1-2 seconds behind.

Some laps I was just a few car lengths behind @SW__10 until the downhill left after the hairpin. So much going on to enter that corner well. Think I only got the apex in 2 times in 2 hours. It was the same when I did a track day here in an Abarth 500. Tricky turn for novice drivers like me and it gets harder further around the lap!

I just find this car too sensitive with minor input levels to optimise it at any part of the track. Maybe I'll go back to right stick brake/accelerate if triggers are still too tricky in a month or two.

DS3, trigger brake/accelerate with left stick steering
TCS: 4
Active Steering: Strong [I was staying on the track more with this but it feels weird]
ABS: 1

 

[t_wilson01]

@t_wilson01 your ghost was the target I was using to improve my times around here. You take an extraordinary wide entry and lane apex at the Druids hairpin! I also have @SW__10 ghost which stays super tight.

It was not intentional, trust me. I hit the brakes a bit late and carried too much speed into the turn, and that really messes you up because the car then understeers. I've always been very inconsistent, which makes running a good lap a challenge.

I'm thinking about switching gas/brake from X/Square to R2/L2 as that should make it easier for me to regulate the throttle with high powered cars (if I ever get used to the change). I remain undecided on how to set the gears though, R1/L1 or the right analog stick.

If you are anywhere near @SW__10's lap, then you must be five or six light years ahead of me.

 

[Sidebrowns]

Wilson on DS3 I use the stick for gear changes. That way I free up L1/R1 for look behind and ghost. 👍

 

[Grayfox]

The first corner can make or break you.
A blind right hander with crazy camber and elevation changes and watch out for the right hander down the long stright at the back, starts of quick but tightens into a pain in the butt.

 

[TangoR34]

Managed to get 1:32.955 with the Nur package
but the normal version can do better

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Been at this for the last 6 hours now ...just can't string it all together. I've been up on my ghost by .500 - .550 on a pretty consistent basis through the first 3 corners, then I lose all, or most of it on that left hander going up the hill. If I'm lucky, I can come out of there still .100 ahead of my ghost, but that's it. I pretty much have the other corners figured out, its just that one that is really killing me. I believe the corner I'm talking about is Surtees. Its right after Cooper Straight. If I could just crack that one corner, I could seriously contend for a top 10 spot. Any help/advice on this part of the track would be greatly appreciated. 6 hours and counting .....I'm on a mission and I'm not stopping till I get this.

 

[nebularis23]

Been at this for the last 6 hours now ...just can't string it all together. I've been up on my ghost by .500 - .550 on a pretty consistent basis through the first 3 corners, then I lose all, or most of it on that left hander going up the hill. If I'm lucky, I can come out of there still .100 ahead of my ghost, but that's it. I pretty much have the other corners figured out, its just that one that is really killing me. I believe the corner I'm talking about is Surtees. Its right after Cooper Straight. If I could just crack that one corner, I could seriously contend for a top 10 spot. Any help/advice on this part of the track would be greatly appreciated. 6 hours and counting .....I'm on a mission and I'm not stopping till I get this.

I'm struggling with this one tonight like crazy. Hope you get a good lap together and get into the top 10.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I'm struggling with this one tonight like crazy. Hope you get a good lap together and get into the top 10.

Thanks, won't be from a lack of trying, I'll tell you that. Incidentally, I just did manage to improve a bit just now. I had a huge lead on my ghost, losing a lot of it at Surtees yet again, but managed to hold on to a bit of it...improving to 1'27.661. A big dog fight atop of my friends list between me, Fishylocked, and Turok....with Stotty way out in front by .527. Good fun though chasing you guys around....you guys complete me. Alright, enough babbling, back at it.

My Top 5 friends list standings at this point. (I have more aliens on my list but apparently they are still in outer space somewhere. )

1. GTP_Stotty 1'27.028
2. Fishylocked 1'27.555
3. cargorat323 1'27.661
4. Turok 134 1'27.739
5. pmjg66 1'28.247