Logitech Challenge-US players, free suff.

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Get off your high horse pal :rolleyes: According to GTP OLR's yes it would clearly be considered cheating, but we are not using the almighty GTP OLR's for Logitech's competition, so you're opinion of what is considered cheating/legal doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Also, there is no "contest" if you decide to only put in a clean lap and all the wall rider laps stand as being legal. You can't compete with a wallriding lap that is 3 tenths of a lap faster than a clean lap.
 
Oh well, i'll send an email. Even though I wall rode. I still don't think its right, but thats what we get with STD and S3 tires.

TA has a point though, it isn't a contest for clean fast laps, its a contest for FAST LAPS..man I hate to see what they will do at Eiger to cheat. I've seen some interesting things.
 
Get off your high horse pal :rolleyes: According to GTP OLR's yes it would clearly be considered cheating, but we are not using the almighty GTP OLR's for Logitech's competition, so you're opinion of what is considered cheating/legal doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Also, there is no "contest" if you decide to only put in a clean lap and all the wall rider laps stand as being legal. You can't compete with a wall riding lap that is 3 tenths of a lap faster than a clean lap.

No it doesn't amount to a hill of bean but a mountain of beans. GTP or not, IMO wall riders are the scourge of the earth. If I need to wall ride to compete then I'm not interested. Logitech and Sony can stick their prizes where the sun don't shine. :grumpy:
 
Oh well, i'll send an email. Even though I wall rode. I still don't think its right, but thats what we get with STD and S3 tires.

TA has a point though, it isn't a contest for clean fast laps, its a contest for FAST LAPS..man I hate to see what they will do at Eiger to cheat. I've seen some interesting things.

Thanks for sending them an email Chad, they need to get their rules together if they plan on having a legitmate/non wall riding competition 👍 Especially seeing that two of the three TT's are wall rider's paridise :crazy: They did a wonderful job of thinking the competition through...not. They must have very little, if any experience racing in GT5P Time Trials, which is just great when you try to put on such a large event with many prizes to be awarded, and don't have any idea how flawed the penalty system is :lol:

No it doesn't amount to a hill of bean but a mountain of beans. GTP or not, IMO wall riders are the scourge of the earth. If I need to wall ride to compete then I'm not interested. Logitech and Sony can stick their prizes where the sun don't shine. :grumpy:

It still doesn't amount to a hill of beens in regards to the competition...you can think whatever you want :)
 
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I may sound like some 'iRacing-fanboy' now, but try to wallride or shortcut over curbs there and you'll find yourself being spectator in your own cockpit, or if you can get your car stable again, you certainly aint getting any benefit about those cheats.

I know this is off-topic, but what I wanted to say is: PD... IT CANT BE SO DAMN HARD TO DO THESE THINGS RIGHT!!! ...there is something like dozen people doing iRacing, and they really have done many things much better.
 
I may sound like some 'iRacing-fanboy' now, but try to wallride or shortcut over curbs there and you'll find yourself being spectator in your own cockpit, or if you can get your car stable again, you certainly aint getting any benefit about those cheats.

I know this is off-topic, but what I wanted to say is: PD... IT CANT BE SO DAMN HARD TO DO THESE THINGS RIGHT!!! ...there is something like dozen people doing iRacing, and they really have done many things much better.

+1. Live for Speed is another example what PD need to look at.
 
Get off your high horse pal :rolleyes: According to GTP OLR's yes it would clearly be considered cheating, but we are not using the almighty GTP OLR's for Logitech's competition, so you're opinion of what is considered cheating/legal doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
I'm sure it's not just my opinion. Wallriding is cheating and should not be allowed.

Also, there is no "contest" if you decide to only put in a clean lap and all the wall rider laps stand as being legal. You can't compete with a wallriding lap that is 3 tenths of a lap faster than a clean lap.
At this point, you don't know if the wallriding laps will be allowed or not. I always try to drive with the GTP rules as they are the same as my own, and I will not resort to wallriding under any circumstances.
 
I may sound like some 'iRacing-fanboy' now, but try to wallride or shortcut over curbs there and you'll find yourself being spectator in your own cockpit, or if you can get your car stable again, you certainly aint getting any benefit about those cheats.

I know this is off-topic, but what I wanted to say is: PD... IT CANT BE SO DAMN HARD TO DO THESE THINGS RIGHT!!! ...there is something like dozen people doing iRacing, and they really have done many things much better.

Thank You! 👍 And I 100% agree. The PROBLEM is PD's laziness or procrastination to fix such BLATANT problems which create huge issues when putting on such events like this one. Whether you are a fanboy of PD and the GT series or not, you must admits this...otherwise you just have your head up your you know what. There's no reason why wall-riding should be the faster way around any circuit, given that we are already on GT5P. And if wall riding is the faster way around the circuit, there should be a penalty for doing so. I still don't get how the penalty system is so flawed and inconsistent at times either. They still have a long way to go, even on the basic aspects of the game :dunce:
 
Thanks for sending them an email Chad, they need to get their rules together if they plan on having a legitmate/non wall riding competition 👍 Especially seeing that two of the three TT's are wall rider's paridise :crazy: They did a wonderful job of thinking the competition through...not.



It still doesn't amount to a hill of beens in regards to the competition...you can think whatever you want :)

Yeah thanks Chad. 👍

I guess you're right timeattack in terms of the competition but this is a major fail that I'm afraid will be the norm for future events of this kind. I meant no disrespect to you personally but was only stating my displeasure with PD/Sony promoting less than ethical on track behavior. :)
 
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Put in an hour or so last night, got a 1'20.0, good enough for 42nd (at the time).

I'm done with this week's competition, and I'm hoping the next two events are more interesting.

I did notice that the HSR event was flagged as a "beginner" event. Just speculating, but I think Eiger will be "intermediate", and Suzuka will be "expert."
 
Put in an hour or so last night, got a 1'20.0, good enough for 42nd (at the time).

I'm done with this week's competition, and I'm hoping the next two events are more interesting.

I did notice that the HSR event was flagged as a "beginner" event. Just speculating, but I think Eiger will be "intermediate", and Suzuka will be "expert."

Lets keep our fingers crossed that you're correct but that makes too much sense. :sly:
 
I'm sure it's not just my opinion. Wallriding is cheating and should not be allowed.

Again, UNFORTUNATELY how is it cheating when there are no rules against it? There should be rules to prevent cheating, but if those rules aren't there how can you justifiably say it is cheating? Formula 1 is an example of taking the rules and interperating them to the best of your ability. I don't like the idea of wallriding, but who's or what's going to stop others from doing so and stealing an easy podium spot? Everyone else (the clean drivers) is just going to sit back and be fine with being destroyed by all of the wall riders...?

At this point, you don't know if the wallriding laps will be allowed or not. I always try to drive with the GTP rules as they are the same as my own, and I will not resort to wallriding under any circumstances.

I respect that 👍 I just don't think there's any point in competing in this PARTICULAR TT if you don't wall ride...at least if you were hoping to score a top 3 time. By the time it is all said and done, you likely won't be in the top 10if you don't wallride, and you won't have a damn thing to show for your efforts. Unless of course Logitech decides to DQ the wallriders after the event closes, which is a pretty comical/unorganized ruling to make AFTER the competition closes. It's like the "red curb" analogy I mentioned before.

...

Yeah thanks Chad. 👍

I guess you're right timeattack in terms of the competition but this is a major fail that I'm afraid will be the norm for future events of this kind. I meant no disrespect to you personally but was only stating my displeasure with PD/Sony promoting less than ethical on track behavior. :)

I completely agree bro! It is a MAJOR fail on Logitech and PD/Sony's part! They obviously didn't think the competition through well enough, and seem to lack a knowledge of their own product and flaws, that of which found in GT5P :ouch:

Put in an hour or so last night, got a 1'20.0, good enough for 42nd (at the time).

I'm done with this week's competition, and I'm hoping the next two events are more interesting.

I did notice that the HSR event was flagged as a "beginner" event. Just speculating, but I think Eiger will be "intermediate", and Suzuka will be "expert."

Hope you're right...I'll keep my fingers crossed :cheers:
 
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EVERYONE PLEASE CALL SONY.

Sony Computer Entertainment America
M-SAT 6:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. PST
Sunday 7:00 a.m. - 6:30 p.m
800-345-7669 (800-345-SONY)

Complain! If enough of us complain something will be done.

Dial 0 to get an operator. Just say you want to complain or speak with someone about the Logitech Challenge on GT5P

I called and complained, and someone will call me back about it..I hope someone that is knowledgeable about it.
 
I support you. I don't think it's right either. I will stop putting on dirty laps with my GTP tag.
Oh well, i'll send an email. Even though I wall rode. I still don't think its right, but thats what we get with STD and S3 tires.

TA has a point though, it isn't a contest for clean fast laps, its a contest for FAST LAPS..man I hate to see what they will do at Eiger to cheat. I've seen some interesting things.
 
I support you. I don't think it's right either. I will stop putting on dirty laps with my GTP tag.

The problem is/was when one person did it then it's monkey see monkey do and the whole comp went down the crapper. It really shouldn't have anything to do with GTP either.

Probably too late now so you might as well knock yourself out, I hope you guys win a prize.
 
Get off your high horse pal :rolleyes: According to GTP OLR's yes it would clearly be considered cheating, but we are not using the almighty GTP OLR's for Logitech's competition, so you're opinion of what is considered cheating/legal doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Also, there is no "contest" if you decide to only put in a clean lap and all the wall rider laps stand as being legal. You can't compete with a wallriding lap that is 3 tenths of a lap faster than a clean lap.

Ok, let me try and explain what I mean when I say wallriding is cheating, and maybe you'll get the point I'm trying to make (but for the acknowledged Alonso fan, my hopes are only so high :rolleyes: ). Since the first Gran Turismo game, PD has promoted the series as being "The Real Driving Simulator". Now, while I completely agree that this PROLOGUE (read: BETA, for all intents and purposes) version has its major flaws, as a racer myself outside of the game, on real road courses, my gaming experience with GT is all that much more satisfying when I am able to be competitive by driving the way I do in a real car on a real track.

On a real track, in a real car (racecar or otherwise), so-called "wallriding" doesn't need to be outlawed in the rules of racing because it's already universally outlawed by a much more stringent "governing board", if you will...called the laws of physics. They clearly and infallibly dictate that if you attempt to wallride in an attempt to get some cornering assistance for a faster lap time, you'll be sadly disappointed (as will your crew and sponsors) with the results of trying it. If you don't believe me, take whatever you drive (if you're old enough to have a license and actually have a vehicle) out to a racetrack and give it a whirl! And by the way, if you are silly enough to try it, PLEASE come back here to the forum and tell us all about it. :dopey:

Now, as I'm sure quite a few of the true racing fans (which I would venture a guess that more than half of are NOT fans of your buddy "Magic" :lol: )out there will agree, wallriding is cheating not so much in the way that it's dishonest or unsportsmanlike (although it really is, at least a little bit), but more that it's cheating the intended physics of the game. The fact this rather major discrepancy with the natural laws of physics has yet to be addressed and corrected in this PROLOGUE version of the game is not a neato glitch to exploit, but one that we (the true racers who seek and strive for the true [...to life] racing experience GT provides the console gaming world) hold ourselves responsible for addressing on our own. It's what a gentleman or lady racer would most likely refer to as "keeping yourself honest", which is a big part of what sportsmanship is all about.

Hopefully, all the eons and decades of delays for the release of GT-5 will have been worth waiting for...and I am in NO way referring to a better "Photo Mode". :crazy: :yuck: With any luck we'll all find out around Christmas time if PD has been spending all this time working on perfecting the physics engine of the game or pissin' it all away on making it look purdy. Personally, I'm hoping for the physics.

Maybe all of the above will clarify what I think the majority of people who commented here mean when they say "cheating". I have a feeling most, if not all, certainly meant to inspire the avid wallriders to strive for a more satisfying racing experience through use of constructive criticism. I hope so, at least.

Of course, all this is just my opinion...and I could be wrong.

Ok, sorry everybody...end of rant! :guilty:

Pyro
 
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The problem is/was when one person did it then it's monkey see monkey do and the whole comp went down the crapper. It really shouldn't have anything to do with GTP either.

Probably too late now so you might as well knock yourself out, I hope you guys win a prize.

Exactly. It's bad enough when there are just bragging rights on the line, in terms of people cheating and doing whatever possible to gain an advantage. Considering there are prizes on the line for this event, wall riding was ABSOULTELY bound to happen. Especially considering that there is no declarative ruling against it :indiff:
 
My apologizes for double posting :ouch:

Ok, let me try and explain what I mean when I say wallriding is cheating, and maybe you'll get my point (but for the acknowledged Alonso fan, my hopes are only so high :rolleyes: ). Since the first Gran Turismo game, PD has promoted the series as being "The Real Driving Simulator". Now, while I completely agree that this PROLOGUE (read: BETA, for all intents and purposes) version has its major flaws, as a racer myself outside of the game, on real road courses, my gaming experience with GT is all that much more satisfying when I am able to be competitive by driving the way I do in a real car on a real track.

On a real track, in a real car (racecar or otherwise), so-called "wallriding" doesn't need to be outlawed in the rules of racing because it's already universally outlawed by a much more stringent "governing board", if you will...called the laws of physics. They clearly and infallibly dictate that if you attempt to wallride in an attempt to get some cornering assistance for a faster lap time, you'll be sadly disappointed (as will your crew and sponsors) with the results of trying it. If you don't believe me, take whatever you drive (if you're old enough to have a license and actually have a vehicle) out to a racetrack and give it a whirl! And by the way, if you are silly enough to try it, PLEASE come back here to the forum and tell us all about it. :dopey:

Dude, why are you giving me a lecture on that crap...really? If you took the time to read my prior post you would have clearly seen that I am fully aware that wall riding is absolutely non applicable in reality...but then so are a lot of aspect of driving this particular car in this time trial. Like massively engine braking a fwd car going into a turn, in an attempt to go through the corner faster. So I don't understand why you're trying to throw that in my face...:ouch:

Now, as I'm sure quite a few of the true racing fans (which I would venture a guess that more than half of are NOT fans of your buddy "Magic" :lol: )out there will agree, wallriding is cheating not so much in the way that it's dishonest or unsportsmanlike (although it really is, at least a little bit), but more that it's cheating the intended physics of the game. The fact this rather major discrepancy with the natural laws of physics has yet to be addressed and corrected in this PROLOGUE version of the game is not a neato glitch to exploit, but one that we (the true racers who seek and strive for the true [...to life] racing experience GT provides the console gaming world) hold ourselves responsible for addressing on our own. It's what a gentleman or lady racer would most likely refer to as "keeping yourself honest", which is a big part of what sportsmanship is all about.

Again, tell that to EVERYONE else competing in this competition. It's not a FAIR or LEGITIMATE competition when you have half wall riders and half clean drivers. The clean drivers obviously can't compete with the wallriders who will be the only folks to win a prize. That is the true problem...not my opinion of what is proper racing etiquette or not. You and few others still fail to see the bigger picture though, by continually questioning me. I hate wall riding as much as the next guy, but if all the leaderboard times are wallriders, what options are you left with...except to have absolutely no chance at winning a damn thing if you choose to keep your laps clean. :guilty: Again, the problem is not just me, it is a lot of other folks competing in this competition who will do anything to win. Like Fatleadfoot said, it's a matter of monkey see, monkey do. The only way to eliminate such a problem is by coming up with rules that prohibit such driving...BOTTOM LINE


Hopefully, all the eons and decades of delays for the release of GT-5 will have been worth waiting for...and I am in NO way referring to a better "Photo Mode". :crazy: :yuck: With any luck we'll all find out around Christmas time if PD has been spending all this time working on perfecting the physics engine of the game or pissin' it all away on making it look purdy. Personally, I'm hoping for the physics.

Maybe all of the above will clarify what I think the majority of people who commented here mean when they say "cheating". I have a feeling most, if not all, certainly meant to inspire the avid wallriders to strive for a more satisfying racing experience through use of constructive criticism. I hope so, at least.

Of course, all this is just my opinion...and I could be wrong.

Ok, sorry everybody...end of rant! :guilty:

Pyro

...
 
Like Fatleadfoot said, it's a matter of monkey see, monkey do. The only way to eliminate such a problem is by coming up with rules that prohibit such driving...

What about just not being a monkey? Perhaps in hopes that Logitech, or whoever will judge the final results, may actually feel the same way most of us here do and disqualify all the times that were obtained by wallriding...which, since they're the ones who are putting this thing on in the first place, they have the right to do and have made notice as to the possibility of in their disclaimer, I think.

Boy...wouldn't that be a big ol' impromptu class lesson on racing for the wallriding masses? I know I'd gain a lot of respect for Logitech if they did!!

Pyro
 
What about just not being a monkey? Perhaps in hopes that Logitech, or whoever will judge the final results, may actually feel the same way most of us here do and disqualify all the times that were obtained by wallriding...which, since they're the ones who are putting this thing on in the first place, they have the right to do and have made notice as to the possibility of in their disclaimer, I think.
Boy...wouldn't that be a big ol' impromptu class lesson on racing for the wallriding masses? I know I'd gain a lot of respect for Logitech if they did!!

Pyro

And if they don't disqualify the wallriders, which they have shown no clear intentions of doing, the clean drivers get what for there efforts? Nothing unfortunately...:indiff:
 
What about just not being a monkey? Perhaps in hopes that Logitech, or whoever will judge the final results, may actually feel the same way most of us here do and disqualify all the times that were obtained by wallriding...which, since they're the ones who are putting this thing on in the first place, they have the right to do and have made notice as to the possibility of in their disclaimer, I think.

Boy...wouldn't that be a big ol' impromptu class lesson on racing for the wallriding masses? I know I'd gain a lot of respect for Logitech if they did!!

Pyro

Speaking of NOT being a monkey, why don't you guys call SCEA like me? And DO something about your complaints?

EVERYONE PLEASE CALL SONY.

Sony Computer Entertainment America
M-SAT 6:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. PST
Sunday 7:00 a.m. - 6:30 p.m
800-345-7669 (800-345-SONY)
 
Speaking of NOT being a monkey, why don't you guys call SCEA like me? And DO something about your complaints?

EVERYONE PLEASE CALL SONY.

Sony Computer Entertainment America
M-SAT 6:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. PST
Sunday 7:00 a.m. - 6:30 p.m
800-345-7669 (800-345-SONY)

I started to call, but then remembered my last experience with Sony phone support. Let's just say it wasn't so productive.

However, there is a thread over at the official Playstation dot com forums that is riddled with posts from people stating their displeasure with wallriding top times and how bent they'll be if their clean lap gets pushed down the leaderboard by them.

I think posting over there might be a bit more effective.

Just an idea...

Pyro
 
My call was I think productive..I just explained it to the nice lady and she told me that someone would contact me about this matter with in 24-48 hours.

Worth a shot.
 
Okay, I don't like the wall riders either, but is anybody gonna try? What if Sony/PD says that only the clean laps would be considered? I don't believe they would do that, but what if they do? Don't miss an opprotunity to win. I'm not. I could use a new wheel. Mine is slap wore out. i just ran a 1.18.999, clean.
 
Don't give up. A clean lap just might become the fastest lap here. The more you run, the faster you will become.:)
 
Ok, so a question about "wall riding".

I like to think of myself as a clean driver. My first run out, I ran a 1.20.xxx and was in the top 50. Upon watching a replay, I saw the driver taking the high line on the last corner.

It seems to me I'm able to carry more speed in the final corner if I stay high. Whenever I get too close to the wall and hit the rumble strip, I know I nick the barrier - it invalidates my lap as well as the next one.

Clearly the game's trying to keep me from cheating. But if I'm high, on or near the rumble stips, am I "cheating" or "not driving clean"?

Other than maybe borderline on the last turn, I feel I'm clean. I'm smooth through turn 1, drift/slide aggressively through turn 2, again aggressive in the s-turns 3 and 4, tight after the tunnel and run high on the last turn.

What's the general consensus? Thanks...
 
Quite simply, if wallriding is allowed, then the high road is to say "I will not wallride, because it's cheating." The low road is "Wallriding is cheating, but in order to be competitive in this particular competition, I will need to wallride."

For those of us able to afford nice Logitech products (steering wheels in particular), it's easy to say, "I won't cheat to win a prize", but what about someone on a seriously tight budget? Do you apply the same morality? What if this comp is the only chance they might have to finally own a wheel, or get one for their kid?

I tend to see gray areas where many see black and white. I won't look down on anyone doing "what it takes" in an outside GTP competition, I don't see it as my job to judge someone when they could have motives that I may not understand. If I had to do it, I'd avoid using my GTP_ tag.

All of this discussion leads me to another question: Is it morally reprehensible for me to participate in this competition when I already own a DFGT, a wireless Logitech mouse, and surround sound speakers? I say no, it's an open competition, there is no rule stating that already owning some of the prizes DQ's you from the competition. However, I can see someone who runs similar lap times to me hating me for trying to win something that I already own, but they do not. I can see their point, but.....the rules are the rules, no one said anything about them being fair.

When it comes to these type of conflicts, it's Who is right VS. What is right. Outside gaming, in the real world, I've noticed that What is right usually loses to Who is right in the eyes of the law and the lawyers. Example: Your wife has a heart attack, and you get pulled over and ticketed for speeding while racing her to the hospital. Were you right to speed? In my mind, absolutely. Did you break the law? In that Police Officer's mind, absolutely.

Who is right? I don't know, it all depends on the pressure each individual is under. The husband is under pressure to save his wife, the Officer is under pressure to write the ticket. It all comes down to personal choice and what you can live with and still sleep at night.
 
I will not wallride.

I ran a lap of 121.171 yesterday and it was squeaky clean and at the time it put me in 27th place,last time I looked I got bumped to 41st,(whatever),I realize I am not the fastest guy out there,but at least I can sleep at night knowing that I did an honest,clean lap WITHOUT THE HELP OF GUARDRAILS.

Just my .02 worth.
 
Example: Your wife has a heart attack, and you get pulled over and ticketed for speeding while racing her to the hospital. Were you right to speed? In my mind, absolutely. Did you break the law? In that Police Officer's mind, absolutely.

My answer for that one is easy. I wouldn't pull over. :dopey:

I started to call, but then remembered my last experience with Sony phone support. Let's just say it wasn't so productive.

However, there is a thread over at the official Playstation dot com forums that is riddled with posts from people stating their displeasure with wallriding top times and how bent they'll be if their clean lap gets pushed down the leaderboard by them.

I think posting over there might be a bit more effective.

Just an idea...

Pyro

I can only speak to OLR rules enforced for official GTP events.

Rumble strips are part of the track. But if you touch a barrier or other object, visible or invisible, you are DQ'd.

We DQ'd 2 racers in GTP_WRS Week 17 for invisible wall touches. There is about a half inch gap on the screen between the car and physical wall when you make contact on that corner. It's possible to stay high, touch the rumble, and avoid the wall.

That would be known as close, but clean.
 
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