Logitech Reveals G923 Wheel for PlayStation and Xbox

Logitech could develop a load cell mod for the new two wheels and sell it separately. Or something similar to the Truebrake.
 
Damiank388
It’s just software probably and the progressive spring. Wonder if you can flash it on your g29 and get true force on it ;)
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We had to use a bigger processor, as well as an improved motor driver and the closed loop electronics to handle what Trueforce is doing so you definitely can’t put the G923 firmware on G29.

Re: load cell, a good, reliable load cell solution that can handle the punishment that sim racing puts it through still causes problems with cost.
 
LOGI_Rich
Re: load cell, a good, reliable load cell solution that can handle the punishment that sim racing puts it through still causes problems with cost.
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Not if you (Logitech) develop something like the Truebrake.
 
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I wonder how they officially call that wheel: G nine,two,three, (G neun, zwei, drei) or
G nine, twenty-three (G neun, dreiundzwanzig) ?

Its optically the "black-edition" of the G29 (which make this not a bad wheel at all). How different it feels and play, could only be said in a direct side-by-side test with the G29.

Anyway, I am very glad that my (old) G29 is still compatible with the PS5. I even ues the pedals and stick shifter from my (even older) G27. The brakes of the G29 are fake-hard and give me not that much feeling as the softer one from the G27.
 
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Am really curious to see more on how the G923 compares to the older G29 and how much more the Trueforce adds on the games that support it.

I’ll probably stick with my faithful G29 but have decided to do a few mods to improve things going forward; ...GTEYE spring for the brake pedal, 3DRap magnetic paddles mod as well as the cambio/H shifter mod for the stick shifter. Anyone else have any suggestions and recommendations that I could be missing out on? Many thanks.
 
Does true force use a dedicated tactile output signal from the game? So for older games without this output it won't function.

Does it work on GTS as per the Thrustmaster T-GT
 
Damn. I totally misread the headline and thought it was a wheel that would work on BOTH Playstation AND Xbox. If only. But of course, why would they want to do that when they could potentially sell more wheels?

Otherwise, I think this is good news. Logitech sorely needed a better FFB method than what they've been using since G25 and hopefully this is it. Frankly, I even prefer the T150 over the G29 FFB wise.

With FFB improvements, this thing could actually be worth a buy so I'll be curious to see what people think and hopefully try it myself someday.

Strange that only certain games support "trueforce" but I still would assume the wheel will feel better than G29 even when it's not supported if the delivery method is indeed better hardware wise. They make it sound like it is at least.

For now, I'm still loving my T300 and am SO HAPPY that it is supported on PS5!!!!!!!!!!
 
John G
Does true force use a dedicated tactile output signal from the game? So for older games without this output it won't function.

Does it work on GTS as per the Thrustmaster T-GT
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Yes, the developer sends the audio stream to the Trueforce algorithm. They can tailor what they send and still allow you to adjust the levels of what they send too, if they like (Codemasters are doing this, for example, where you can adjust the engine, road and tyre “volumes”).
GT Sport does support Trueforce already.

@TomBrady re: doing a wheel that supports all consoles... that is not an option that’s open to us, or anyone else for that matter. :)
 
LOGI_Rich
Yes, the developer sends the audio stream to the Trueforce algorithm. They can tailor what they send and still allow you to adjust the levels of what they send too, if they like (Codemasters are doing this, for example, where you can adjust the engine, road and tyre “volumes”).
GT Sport does support Trueforce already.
:)
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Thanks @LOGI_Rich sounds promising.
Audio signal is sent via the standard USB connection presumably?

I guess that means developers are going to start to pay better attention generally to the low frequency effects on console games for those of us with tactile transducers like the butt kicker and use LFE channels (through conventional audio output) to specifically communicate discreet events like the sim vibe software does on PC, which is fantastic news!
 
LOGI_Rich
We had to use a bigger processor, as well as an improved motor driver and the closed loop electronics to handle what Trueforce is doing so you definitely can’t put the G923 firmware on G29.

Re: load cell, a good, reliable load cell solution that can handle the punishment that sim racing puts it through still causes problems with cost.
Click to expand...

IDK what the failure rate for a loud cell is... but I've had my Fanatec CSP v2 load cell since the product was first released (however many years ago). Easily over 10k hours since then without issue. Meanwhile, pretty much every potentiometer I've had in a sim racing product has had issues from dust or just failed (the only issue my otherwise rock solid G25 and later G27 experienced). Genuinely asking, is it really a downgrade in terms of average reliability?

In terms of cost... if it's sold separately, as a premium wheel&pedal SKU, individual pedal set or upgrade, I don't see the problem. There is a clear value proposition to a load cell brake. Perhaps the marketing is harder to convey to the more casual crowd vs something like Truforce, but I'd argue that people willing to spend $400+ on a gaming peripheral have the capacity/incentive to seek more information. Thrustmaster and Fanatec offer them and seem to sell well.

As I see it, the only people who buy a G923 are people new to the genre (good product for them), people who are still running more budget focused or old generation wheels (DFGT/G27/etc) or sweaty esports competitors who prefer a less noisy/intense wheel (vs belt/DD). It's going to be hard to convince anyone to go from Thrustmaster or Fanatec to Logitech if they can simply spend <$400 and upgrade their existing gear to a better spec with the offerings from their respective ecosystems. Maybe that's fine, I just feel this is a missed opportunity.
 
Hi guys, I came across a review on a German website which better explains how the Trueforce technology feels. Here's an extract (Google translated):

Trueforce - Marketing Gag or Real Innovation?

A steering range of 900 degrees, LED lights for the speed, integrated PlayStation or Xbox buttons. We already know all of this from the predecessor. What we don't know, however, is the G923's Trueforce technology . But is this really the breakthrough innovation Logitech wants to sell us?

The G923's force feedback system locks into real-time game physics and audio-supported games to improve haptic feedback. Anyone interested in the PlayStation 5 knows that this is exactly one of the most innovative features of the DualSense controller and that the Racer Gran Turismo 7 should benefit from it.

The steering wheel calls up data from the respective game up to 4,000 times per second in order to accurately reflect the engine sounds, tire traction or the condition of the ground. At least that's the theory.

Problem number one: At the time of the test, only three titles supported Trueforce technology (Assetto Corsa Competizione, GRID and Gran Turismo Sport). Other titles , including F1 2020 and the most important sim racing games, are to follow in September . iRacing is already compatible through a modification of the .ini files.

In our test, F1 2020 did not even recognize the steering wheel and refused to work. Project Cars 2 wanted to be set up by hand first. Future updates can (and will) get this under control.

Light and shadow of the Trueforce technology
Problem number two: We don't know exactly what to think of the technology.

In the first few laps with ACC on the Nürburgring, the feel of the game is outstanding . The asphalt off the racing line rattles in our hands and for the first time in a racing game we feel when we are going too fast into a curve and are about to lose traction. A novelty in around 28 years of racing game experience.

The driving experience that comes up when playing with the Logitech G923 Trueforce is unique and so new that it can hardly be put into words. You actually have the feeling of sitting in a real racing car because you can now feel every bump thanks to the haptic feedback .

The loudspeaker integrated in the steering wheel - the volume of which can be regulated in the Assetto Corsa Competizione options menu - also reproduces the engine noises. However, this is quite quiet and a nice bonus.

What is less nice, however, is that the G29, which is already quite loud, has now become even louder thanks to the G923's Trueforce technology. That literally forces us to venture out onto the racetrack only with headphones, as the noise of the steering wheel is annoying in the long run. In addition, the resulting micro - vibrations feel a little strange and even uncomfortable over time. Here, too, it is difficult to put the feeling when driving into words.

The difference between the G29 and G923 is clearly noticeable in Assetto Corsa Competizione and Gran Turismo Sport on the track . In the positive as in the negative.

Does the Logitech G923 Trueforce really deliver a better gaming experience? Not really. To be honest, we would have expected more from TrueForce technology. The system does not represent the expected game changer. However, the races always feel more realistic. And yet: we feel more comfortable with the previous model .
Click to expand...

The full review can be found here:

https://www.earlygame.com/de/logitech-g923-trueforce-review/
 
People whining because a sub-$400 combination isn't as good as an ecosystem consisting of a $250 base, a $150 rim, $200 pedals and a $200 shifter? In other words just another day at GTPlanet, nothing unexpected.

I may actually get this one. Since 2007 I've been using the G25 I bought back then and while it has had its issues it's still going strong. No pedal problems ever, no any kind of issues with the wheel, but the shifter is problematic. The idea of having both a H pattern and a sequential in the same package was great - the execution wasn't. The general flimsiness is one thing but the potentiometers being housed in plastic slots is a real problem, I've lost count of how many times I've taken it apart over the years and DIY'ed it to work again. At the moment there's a piece of very strategically folded cardboard between the potentiometer and the frame to lodge it firmly in place.

I considered getting a G27 back when it was released but the lack of a sequential shifter was a deal breaker, that's just essential for me. Then came the G29 which showed promise with the buttons being moved onto the wheel and thus possibly enabling the use of a third party shifter but this time the limited brake pedal travel killed it. Now with the G923 having basically the G29 wheel with G25/G27 pedals and an improved spring system, it's finally worth considering. If Logitech doesn't offer a sequential shifter option (which would be an awesome thing but I'm not counting on it) I'll just get a TH8A and be done with it.
 
Cryps
Hi guys, I came across a review on a German website which better explains how the Trueforce technology feels. Here's an extract (Google translated):



The full review can be found here:

https://www.earlygame.com/de/logitech-g923-trueforce-review/
Click to expand...

Reviewer says:
for the first time in a racing game we feel when we are going too fast into a curve and are about to lose traction. A novelty in around 28 years of racing game experience.

The driving experience that comes up when playing with the Logitech G923 Trueforce is unique and so new that it can hardly be put into words. You actually have the feeling of sitting in a real racing car because you can now feel every bump thanks to the haptic feedback

Says that then says:
The system does not represent the expected game changer.

1st off, ive been feeling start of loss of grip on the g29 with any good sim, and long before too on pc, but he says it's a novelty in 28 years..

Then says its annoying to feel vibration etc. Sounds like someone who was used to a pad and 1st time on a wheel i dont know.

I didn't know it had a loudspeaker, bit silly for me, you really need use headphones with this wheel, and you won't hear the small speaker and i want all sounds to be coming from my headphones with an adjustment option and to turn some off if possible if it's been added by the wheel itself too.

They wanted to add more rattle grinding noises? I dont want more noise that can be heard by anyone else, hence the headphones. Especially grinding but even game sounds.
 
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LOGI_Rich
There is no loudspeaker in there. All the sensations are generated by the motors.
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I see thanks, strange how they say this:

The loudspeaker integrated in the steering wheel - the volume of which can be regulated in the Assetto Corsa Competizione options menu - also reproduces the engine noises. However, this is quite quiet and a nice bonus.

Maybe it's a translation problem from German..but it's a long sentence that makes sense apart from being untrue i guess..

Better take this review with a grain of salt it seems. Probably a small improvement in the end, hopefully with no downside. I wonder if the brake is still really firm, i like it on g29, maybe it's adjustable? I dont feel need of that on mine except some sims it is too hard to fully brake 100% but thankfully those have saturation settings to adjust this perfectly.

Thanks again for reply.
I really like the leather feel and shape on the g29 by the way, feels and looks great to me, especially for the whole set price. And the pedals and shifter, really nice. Plus really durable, like new still.
True the button for ps4 options is too near the ps console button though.

Is there any handbrake compatible options with the g29 on ps4? It's a bit hard to find and use a button when the wheel is turned quite a bit, i tried the shifter 4th gear but then it affects shifting or you need off it and it wont register the braking i guess then too. In any case it would only fits for non h pattern cars.
 
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Yeah it feels like a translation issue with the loudspeaker, it is surely all tactile / haptic feedback. Like a tactile transducer is still kind of a speaker, just without the speaker cone (and you can still hear it, if you feed it audiable frequencies )

The review also praises the feel of the feedback as outstanding and something competely new and giving the feeling of being in a real car, but then goes on to say they expected more from the trueforce... So which is it, outstanding or underwhelming?
 
John G
Yeah it feels like a translation issue with the loudspeaker, it is surely all tactile / haptic feedback. Like a tactile transducer is still kind of a speaker, just without the speaker cone (and you can still hear it, if you feed it audiable frequencies )

The review also praises the feel of the feedback as outstanding and something competely new and giving the feeling of being in a real car, but then goes on to say they expected more from the trueforce... So which is it, outstanding or underwhelming?
Click to expand...

Yeah jeez, weird, what do they expect more..id be satisfied with outstanding feel. Again seems like someone trying a ffb wheel for the 1st time and not taking the time to get used to all from this.
Edit: well to be fair they do mention using the g29 too and compare them. The wording feels uncertain, translation maybe again.
 
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I am the exact target market for a wheel and pedal set, not the cheapest and not high end.
Ive weighed up the offerings and because of the price of the new Logitech, i can't see why you would pick that over the Thrustmaster T300 RS GT . The belt drive is a big draw, smooth quieter.
Any thoughts? Am i missing something?

THRUSTMASTER T300 RS GT £278
LOGITECH G923 £350


It makes sense now why all the g29's, for the last few months, were selling new for inflated prices compared to last year, im talking over 50% increase. Easy to check on the Amazon historic price checker. They needed to bump it up otherwise the new wheel would have looked so much more expensive compared to the G29 without much of a change. Took a while for the penny to drop.
 
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Simon Bratt
I am the exact target market for a wheel and pedal set, not the cheapest and not high end.
Ive weighed up the offerings and because of the price of the new Logitech, i can't see why you would pick that over the Thrustmaster T300 RS GT . The belt drive is a big draw, smooth quieter.
Any thoughts? Am i missing something?

THRUSTMASTER T300 RS GT £278
LOGITECH G923 £350
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Well from what i read the pedals aren't as nice at all on the t300, and if you want to upgrade to better it costs a couple 100s more i think. Plus the shifter is not included and expensive too, although supposedly nicer.

I have the g29, never tried other recent ones.
You could get a used g29 or g92 if it's for xbox. I know someone around Uk who might like to sell his g92 to get a g29 for next gen since he might change his mind on which console to get, not sure though.
I got mine new for around 300$ canadian, shifter included, pretty happy with that.

I think also more often Logitech is praised for reliability than the other way around.
 
I have a G27 and it has been pretty reliable for the best part of a decade of regular use - with the massive exception of the pedal potentiometers which have required regular cleaning (not a 5 minute job).
They are a proprietary design and you can't buy them from normal suppliers. This would not be a concern if Logitech were willing to sell spares to customers, but they aren't. (After many iterations, I finally gave up recently: I removed the original pots and installed 3D printed adaptors plus a set of "normal" pots. This setup more or less works OK, with a few fairly minor niggles.)

Despite having doubts about the "Trueforce" feature, I'd be willing to consider the G923 if/when my G27 bites the dust, but I'm no longer keen on pots in pedals at all, and I'm definitely not going to buy the G923 unless Logitech will sell spare pots for it. (Having had this bad experience with Logitech, I've already asked Fanatec if they sell spare pots for their pedals and the instant answer was "yes". However, they are likely out of my price range.)

@LOGI_Rich - can you confirm if Logitech will sell spare pots for the G923? Better still, do you understand why they refuse to sell spare pots for the G25/G27/etc.? (Honestly, I think it's basically an environmental crime these days to refuse to sell spares for funky custom parts.)
 
A friend's dfgt in a year of occasional use started smoking from inside.

2 friends with miss shiftsg29

The same 2 problem with potentiometers on the pedals

I had
G27 then t300rs ferrari integral, and since December 2017 i have been using my csl elite ps4

I have used t500rs, g29, t-gt for a couple of hours

The conclusion for me is just one

A 3nm logitech with a 5% to 10% improvements at most without any revolutionary enhancement not even a "facelift" just for the user's eye for 400€?????????

Hell noooo!!!!!!!

I think people was expecting something new and competitive. This is like my Granny after a cheap whitening in her teeth (plate) and a really bad haircut.

C'mon Logitech the sim racing community was expecting more.
 
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@John G We would be very surprised if anyone was to get confused, in the same way that people know which version of a multiplatform game title to get. The packaging very clearly indicates which platform each wheel is for, the control set on each wheel is also very distinct in the way its labelled and if you take all that aside and just look at the way the products are listed at etail, it's clear which platform your buying for.
 
LOGI_Rich
@John G We would be very surprised if anyone was to get confused, in the same way that people know which version of a multiplatform game title to get. The packaging very clearly indicates which platform each wheel is for, the control set on each wheel is also very distinct in the way its labelled and if you take all that aside and just look at the way the products are listed at etail, it's clear which platform your buying for.
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But you've clearly made a decision to switch from G29 / 290 type naming convention so there was a reason to distinguish before?

Perhaps my thoughts were that it's the inconsistency and change in approach from previous gen that might lead to confusion rather than the single model name per se

I'm sure people will not end up making a mistake and buying the wrong one but it might just be annoying looking for stock etc online and getting the wrong results, as search engine algorithms combined with retailers descriptions and tags will certainly lead to a lot of incorrect search results.
 

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