London and England riots

[Alex.]

Discussion on the breaking events in London. Cannot believe there isn't a thread on this already.


http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23LondonRiots

Thoughts?

 

[homeforsummer]

My thoughts: A bunch of scumbags doing what they do best. There was just enough of an (unjustified) excuse to kick off, so they were only too happy to oblige.

 

[Moot]

The police have been slated for letting it get out of hand.

 

[DK]

Can someone explain why the police shot Mark Duggan?

 

[Famine]

The police have been slated for letting it get out of hand.

Which is, of course, bollocks.

Can someone explain why the police shot Mark Duggan?

He shot a policeman.

 

[Neal]

I can't believe there are so many people who want to cause so much destruction to anyone's and everyone's property for no reason whatsoever. The riot on Saturday in Tottenham had the thinly veiled excuse of the being in protest to the killing of a man by the police (even though he had shot at the police first) but the riots last night and tonight have no justification at all. It's completely barbaric and inhumane. Apparently there is also trouble in Birmingham.

I have heard from close friends who have been subjected to unjust and violet treatment by the police so don't say this without consideration but I really think the police need to use the strongest possible force against these :censored:wits.

 

[Famine]

I've heard Libya is sending on a task force to support the protesters...

[/Satire]

 

[Neal]

Oh snap!

 

[arora]

He shot a policeman.

There is more to it then that, the police stopping the taxi he was in was planned, maybe they where going to arrest him in connection to his cousins(or friends) stabbing?

 

[Moot]

It was a police bullet that hit the policeman.

 

[Neal]

I think it's completely obvious for anyone with any sense that these riots are completely unrelated to the man that was shot a few days ago regardless of the circumstances of how that happened.

 

[Famine]

There is more to it then that, the police stopping the taxi he was in was planned, maybe they where going to arrest him in connection to his cousins(or friends) stabbing?

That's a different question. The question was why the police shot Mark Duggan - the answer is because Mark Duggan shot at the police.

Due to the unique nature of the UK's firearms laws and Health & Safety culture, the very first shot a firearms officer takes will almost always be the last shot he takes as a firearms officer - a six-month long IPCC review of the incident will ensue, during which he will be put on leave. It is usually the last act he carries out as a policeman of any kind too. Firearms officers are accountable for every bullet in their gun at all times and will not fire unless they have to.

It was a police bullet that hit the policeman.

Yes, I heard that bollocks story being put around Twitter too. Apparently they have a headstart on that six-month long IPCC review.

 

[Joey D]

Wait, a riot started because someone was shot? I thank God that Detroiters don't have the same mentality or else we'd be burning this mother down daily. Granted we had race riots back in the 1960's.

I'm just curious what the deeper cause is behind the riots, we are getting very minimal news on it here in the states so it's all kind of foreign to me. Is there an underlying racial cause, or is it really just a bunch of people who had nothing to better to do so they picked an event and ran with it?

 

[arora]

Yes, I heard that bollocks story being put around Twitter too. Apparently they have a headstart on that six-month long IPCC review.

Ballistic reports said to be released within 24 hours.

 

[Famine]

Wait, a riot started because someone was shot? I thank God that Detroiters don't have the same mentality or else we'd be burning this mother down daily. Granted we had race riots back in the 1960's.

I'm just curious what the deeper cause is behind the riots, we are getting very minimal news on it here in the states so it's all kind of foreign to me. Is there an underlying racial cause, or is it really just a bunch of people who had nothing to better to do so they picked an event and ran with it?

The latter.

Currently, the chain of events goes:
1. Alleged drug-dealing gangmember shoots at police.
2. Police shoot back. Are better at it.
3. ????
4. LOOTING!

The areas first involved were relatively deprived - high unemployment, high levels of council accommodation (abriged notes for Americans: local government subsidises rent on houses they own for low income families and individuals), high levels of school dropouts and failure, low levels of adult literacy. A march "in memory of" the alleged drug-dealing gangmember near a scene of a riot a couple of decades ago provided a spark for anti-police sentiment amongst the disaffected youth of the area. This was then helped along by "community leaders*" blaming the police for allowing the riots to continue.

Further, unrelated riots have broken out in other, nearby districts of London organised, apparently, through Twitter (since everyone stole all the laptops and iPhones from Currys in Tottenham the previous night, not a surprise) and any police intervention results in further unrest - the riot in Hackney, for instance, started as a result of a relatively innocuous CJ&POA stop and search of some teenagers...


I've heard it reported that further, completely unrelated riots have broken out in Birmingham, which is 100 miles away. Presumably by some more pathetic, sub-human scum who think that burning, stealing and killing people is how you gain "respect".


*If I was leading a community which burned each others possessions and houses and stole from its own people, I wouldn't be on TV saying I was a community leader. Some "community".

Ballistic reports said to be released within 24 hours.

No need for that, blaaah already knows the facts.

 

[DK]

I wouldn't be surprised if the far-right tries to spin this into xenophobic propaganda...

 

[Spagetti69]

Whilst I find the old lady carrying the 50inch plasma funny.

Send in the army.

 

[rocko100]

Wait, a riot started because someone was shot? I thank God that Detroiters don't have the same mentality or else we'd be burning this mother down daily.

This, I live in the Flint/Saginaw news area and every day "alleged shooter in Flint", "gunman kills two in Saginaw".
Anyways I still don't get why this all started in the first place.

 

[Clark]

Martial Law needed?

Now the mindless arseholes of Birmingham are trying to start it aswell.

 

[Moot]

Yes, I heard that bollocks story being put around Twitter too. Apparently they have a headstart on that six-month long IPCC review.

I read it on mainstream national broadsheet. I don't use/read Twitter, can't see the point.
I have just read anyone posting on Twitter in an encouraging way over the riots faces arrest for inciting violence ( according to the Acting Commissioner Tim Godwin) . I can't see how that can be policed, I mean dozens of people on this site alone could be arrested for what they said in the Norway killings thread, in respect of violence to the killer. The tone is clear. The law seems too grey to me. It reminds me of the lone individual who got arrested by saying on Twitter his airport should get blown up as he was angry about delays.

 

[Famine]

I read it on mainstream national broadsheet.

Yes, the Guardian. They and they alone reported this one, without a source. It was picked up by Twitter almost immediately and we wondered, right around 10am this morning, by what time it would become a fact. 8.04pm, it seems.


The way that many news outlets have reported on all of this borders on the criminal. They're practically goading commentators into condoning the violence and blaming the police. It's very reminiscent of Chris Morris...

​

One almost wonders if they're trying to deflect the attention from the story that broke on Wednesday of phone-hacking being a wider journalistic practice than just the News of the World...

 

[MagpieRacer]

Anyone read the metro? This guy who got shot's brother was saying "he is not the kind of person to shoot a policeman" Anyone see the picture of this guy? Posing making a gun gesture with his fingers, hmm, wouldn't shoot someone eh?

Police in the UK don't shoot someone for no reason.

 

[Clark]

Police in the UK don't shoot someone for no reason.

I am fully supporting of the Police, but was that sarcasm?

 

[Moot]

It's a shame when broadsheet newspapers content no longer counts for anything. People need good solid news.
It will take awhile for the distrust to set in so I can disregard most of what they say without stronger sources. I grew up taking them seriously.
But has it been discredited regarding the police issue bullet?

 

[Spagetti69]

I blame the 7 week school holidays.

If it was in term time, they'd be in the bath now getting there ears scrubbed by there mums.

 

[Touring Mars]

I read it on mainstream national broadsheet.

Sky News have also reported that the bullet that hit the policeman was a police bullet - but either way, it seems a bit early to be able to say either way.

I think that modern technology has played a role in this, insomuch as it offers a whole new level of co-ordination and planning possibilities. And Sky News are always there to keep the rioters bang up to date with every police manoeuvre, just in case they miss anything.

That said, It is not that surprising that Hackney and other parts have kicked off. While there are legitimate grievances - with the police, with the government, with society and life in general - to be aired, there is also plenty of scope for this kind of thing to happen i.e. something as trivial as a stop and search turning into a full scale riot (which is what has allegedly happened in Hackney today). There is any number of troublemakers spoiling for a fight... why is that? Poverty? A sense of hopelessness for the future? A popular culture that constantly reinforces the misguided belief that no effort is required to make it in life? It's probably a bit of all of those things...

 

[dhandeh]

Anyone read the metro? This guy who got shot's brother was saying "he is not the kind of person to shoot a policeman" .

Implying that he would shoot someone else.

Its about time the Police, stepped up and give these idiots a hiding. Just standing there watching them, is making things worse. Or get the tear gas and water cannons out.

And its only a matter of time before some innocent person is going to die (if they havent already), as their flat gets torched with them inside out.

 

[Joey D]

It's a shame when broadsheet newspapers content no longer counts for anything. People need good solid news.
It will take awhile for the distrust to set in so I can disregard most of what they say without stronger sources. I grew up taking them seriously.

You need to take thing you read in the newspaper with a grain of salt. Their readership is down all over the world because of the internet so if they can sensationalise one story to sell more copies they will.

People need good, solid news, this is correct, but most of the news we get now is nothing more than infotainment.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I am fully supporting of the Police, but was that sarcasm?

No it wasn't sarcasm. Its very rare police shoot people in this country, particularly shoot to kill so he must have done something serious for them to do so.

 

[dhandeh]

Enoch Powell anyone?