London and England riots

[axletramp]

I'm confused, I've checked all the national media websites I usually read and can't find anything to do with the police brutality video now. Has anyone else see it in mainstream press? I'm surprised it hasn't taken off.

What police brutality? If anything, the police have been criticised for not going in hard enough early enough - certainly the government has. Surely the police deserve our support in quelling this, don't they?

If you don't want to be cuffed and thrown in the back of a van, don't be out on the streets shouting and taunting the police during lootings. I can't think there were many 'innocent' kids on the streets during the past few nights, caring and responsible parents would have made sure they weren't.

In other news the BBC has banned the use of the term UK rioters, it's now English rioters only.

I reckon they should ban the term 'rioters' as well. They're common thieves and vandals.

 

[Touring Mars]

BBC News also showed it yesterday.

Yeh, if it was the clip I saw, the context (and location) wasn't clear - but it was atleast shown. To be frank, I don't understand the logic of people who see a line of riot police and think 'Hmm, I wonder what will happen if I just stand here and don't get out their way?'.

 

[Moot]

It wasn't that clip you're thinking of.
It's still archived on this link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8693310/Manchester-police-confront-suspected-rioters.html

 

[Famine]

It wasn't that clip you're thinking of.

Yes it was.

The police takedown of the cyclists leaving the riot zone

officers from Greater Manchester Police confronting a group of youths on bicycles

 

[boiltheocean]

What wasn't made so clear is that the helicopter had been following them ever since they looted some shops, it's not like the police took down a random bunch of people leaving the riot zone just because.

 

[Moot]

Yes it was.

I was responding to Touring Mars, the video was not related to getting in the way of a riot charge line.

What wasn't made so clear is that the helicopter had been following them ever since they looted some shops, it's not like the police took down a random bunch of people leaving the riot zone just because.

That is not a relevant issue though regarding my point. Whether they are guilty or innocent they were subject to police brutality, whether they deserved it or not plays no part in the brutality discussion.

 

[terminator363]

All these riots there remind me a little of that scene in V for Vendetta

Language Warning

 

[Touring Mars]

I was responding to Touring Mars, the video was not related to getting in the way of a riot charge line.

It was the clip I saw too, but I was making a general point about the mentality of people who are seemingly looking for trouble - in the case of that video, however, they are obviously not confronting the police and were unlucky to run right into a group of riot police coming from the other direction. One could question the wisdom of roaming around the town in a group on a night when the riot police are out in force, though. You make your own luck in a circumstance like that...

 

[Famine]

What wasn't made so clear is that the helicopter had been following them ever since they looted some shops, it's not like the police took down a random bunch of people leaving the riot zone just because.

The police and rioters spawned there at the start of the round... Then the bloody coppers started spawn-camping.

[/Blaming video games satire]

 

[Moot]

There needs to be a statement by the police force to explain the reason they grouped around the boy on the floor and repeatedly hit him with batons and kicked him.
To me the reason is they just wanted to. But that reason is illegal.

 

[Sureboss]

I was responding to Touring Mars, the video was not related to getting in the way of a riot charge line.


That is not a relevant issue though regarding my point. Whether they are guilty or innocent they were subject to police brutality, whether they deserved it or not plays no part in the brutality discussion.

Police brutality?

They were fleeing from a crime scene on a mode of transport they could use to outrun the police, they were hardly going to say, "Oh, please stop, we'd very much like to arrest you."

That was not excessive, they were restraining them and making damn sure they didn't get away.

 

[axletramp]

There needs to be a statement by the police force to explain the reason they grouped around the boy on the floor and repeatedly hit him with batons and kicked him.
To me the reason is they just wanted to. But that reason is illegal.

They're probably a bit busy at the moment protecting innocent people and their property. Perhaps you could write to them with your issue and they can get back to you in due course.

 

[Rayzor]

Wise man with wise word. Respect.

 

[axletramp]

Deleted post.

 

[homeforsummer]

That is not a relevant issue though regarding my point. Whether they are guilty or innocent they were subject to police brutality, whether they deserved it or not plays no part in the brutality discussion.

Of course it does.

a) They deserved it
b) The police have been given permission to use necessary force to bring people under control

Still not seeing a problem with the video. If they were doing it to ordinary citizens with absolutely no reason then we'd have a problem. They aren't though, so it's irrelevant.

 

[ScouserInExile]

I think we should get together and protest against this police brutality. I need a new TV for my office, so can we protest near a Sony store?

 

[dhandeh]

I think we should get together and protest against this police brutality. I need a new TV for my office, so can we protest near a Sony store?

Sony tv's are over rated, can we make it a Samsung or Panasonic store please. And maybe stop near a dyson shop, so I can pick something up for the other half.

 

[ScouserInExile]

But seriously folks - one of the issues with calling stuff like this "police brutality" is it shows a complete lack of understanding of the force needed in order to subdue someone to the point where they can be cuffed safely and then taken away safely.

We've all seen too many cop shows and films where the hero copper drags the bloke down, rests a knee on the perp's back and slaps the cuffs on. It just doesn't work like that in real life - it'll take at least four officers to arrest someone who is actively resisting without hurting them too much. In fact, a mate of mine is a "nurse" in Ashworth, where they do 10-man restraints i.e., if they need to restrain a "patient" then ten "nurses" will jump on them, this is the only way it's considered safe to do this.

So, if you haven't got the option of a few colleagues helping you out, the only other option is to give them a whack - it's why they're issued with batons in the first place. And you can say "there were a few coppers knocking about" but the rest will have been busy watching out for crowds of scumbags, or looking to see where the other scumbags had gone.

And you also have to consider how much riot gear will restricts your movement, which makes subdueing someone by grappling with them night-on impossible.

So not brutality, just part of the task in hand.

 

[ExigeEvan]

There needs to be a statement by the police force to explain the reason they grouped around the boy on the floor and repeatedly hit him with batons and kicked him.
To me the reason is they just wanted to. But that reason is illegal.

It was hardly a sustained attack. It was infact over within less than 6 seconds.

 

[Neal]

What police brutality? If anything, the police have been criticised for not going in hard enough early enough - certainly the government has. Surely the police deserve our support in quelling this, don't they?

Very much so and fortunately many people are voicing their support.

Outstanding Community Support

Merseyside Police would like to thank the public for their co-operation, patience and positive comments on our Twitter page during the last two days.

...

What is clear is the positive response and outstanding contribution from our local communities, which has been overwhelmingly supportive. We would like to thank communities for caring and coming together to engender true community spirit in organising clean up operations in the worst affected areas.

They're probably a bit busy at the moment protecting innocent people and their property. Perhaps you could write to them with your issue and they can get back to you in due course.

They are definitely still very busy keeping the peace on our streets. Last night in Merseyside there was no "rioting" but the police still made a total of 24 further arrests for violent disorder, possession of weapons, drugs, burglary and car theft. I'm sure this is the same across the country.

Plus they're raiding properties to locate offenders and fast tracking them through the courts which are running from the early hours to late at night to deal with the 1300 plus arrest so far.

 

[MatskiMonk]

All of the people I know who rent their houses do so out of choice. They could easily get a mortgage on their salaries - hell, before 2008 anyone could by self-certing - but they prefer to rent. By renting they're protected from all the horrors that could befall a homeowner: they aren't responsible for repairs to their house, the landlord is; they don't have to worry about home improvements, the landlord does; they don't suffer the fiats of the housing markets and negative equity, the landlord does; they can even deal with cold-callers in just four words - "we rent this house" - and boy do I miss those days. My friends who rent mention all of these points, and more, every time the question of renting vs. buying comes up.

If you're trying to paint renting your property as belonging to an underclass because you aren't happy with it, the problem isn't renting property but you. For some reason you aren't happy with your lot in life - I'd suggest setting yourself a goal and working towards it, rather than denigrating everyone who shares your situation.

I'd just like to comment on this that none of the people I know who rent do so by choice, myself included. I can't speak for everyone, but as a single white male with no dependants, aged 32, grossing £20k-£25k per year, I cannot afford the ~£20,000 deposit I would require to buy a house whilst two thirds of my wages go towards my current household bills (a large portion of which puts the fuel in my landlords Jag). I hate renting, and the concept of facing retirement later in life with only my pension(s) and no assets or security, does worry me.

 

[Famine]

I wasn't a fan of being a tenant when I was a tenant either. I can't say it preyed upon my mind, like...

 

[Christian_C]

It wasn't that clip you're thinking of.
It's still archived on this link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8693310/Manchester-police-confront-suspected-rioters.html

All I can say is... epic takedown.

If they were looters I don't see a problem with what the police did, I'm just gutted they didn't get the rider that was at the front as well

 

[axletramp]

...1300 plus arrest so far.

Well, the authorities' can't really be criticised now. Looks like Cameron has got everyone to set up to the mark on this.

Just for the record, I'm not and out-and-out a Cameron fan.

 

[Jondot]

Sony tv's are over rated, can we make it a Samsung or Panasonic store please. And maybe stop near a dyson shop, so I can pick something up for the other half.

Speaking of which (sort of), I was quite surprised to see them breaking into Bang & Olufsen in Ealing the other night. That's just not smart is it - I mean how will they have any clue as to what it is they've just looted?

Oi bruv, I jus' robbed one a them choclit fountains isn't it.

 

[TT3AZ]

I'd just like to comment on this that none of the people I know who rent do so by choice, myself included. I can't speak for everyone, but as a single white male with no dependants, aged 32, grossing £20k-£25k per year, I cannot afford the ~£20,000 deposit I would require to buy a house whilst two thirds of my wages go towards my current household bills (a large portion of which puts the fuel in my landlords Jag). I hate renting, and the concept of facing retirement later in life with only my pension(s) and no assets or security, does worry me.

This. Something is wrong in UK all right...

 

[dhandeh]

I can imagine one if them running down the road with that on their head.

 

[TheCracker]

👍 Jon.

 

[ScouserInExile]

I wasn't a fan of being a tenant when I was a tenant either. I can't say it preyed upon my mind, like...

Never bothered me either. I only switched from renting to owning because it was cheaper. Or so I thought at the time. I went from renting a 2-bed flat for £600 to paying a mortgage on a 3-bed house of about £450. Quids in, I thought. How very wrong I was...

 

[Touring Mars]

This. Something is wrong in UK all right...

Property prices are too high in alot of places.... they rose dramatically in the last decade, much faster than wages, and buying a flat in London is simply not possible for someone with less than about £50K in the bank and a well above average salary. That said, there are other places in the UK - and they're not all that expensive - £20K deposit and a £25K salary will buy you a small flat (esp. on shared equity schemes) in alot of places, but it does take many years to save up that amount of cash on an average wage.

I houseshared for 6 years in London in order to save up the capital I have today, and although I can now afford to buy a flat easily, I chose not to - mainly because of my job situation (fixed contract), but also because I don't fancy having a massive debt at the moment. My current flat is worth more than double anything I could afford to buy, and yet it costs the same per month in rent as I was facing in mortgage repayments. At least this way, I get to live in a much nicer place, and I can simply walk away if my circumstances change (sorry, when my circumstances change...)