London and England riots

[Jay.]

In general I feel that anyone who can contribute to a society - whatever their racial or religious background - should be welcomed. But there also needs to be stricter consequences for those who add nothing or indeed cause trouble and/or break the law.

Agreed. My comment was referring to those that are here temporarily and are breaking the law. All others that are willing and making an effort to help and fit in are welcome.

 

[Moot]

Agreed. My comment was referring to those that are here temporarily and are breaking the law. All others that are willing and making an effort to help and fit in are welcome.

What about those who are here legally, are civil and abide by the law, but perhaps don't fit in and don't help or work much. You would like to see them deported against their will?

 

[CAM]

He said "making an effort," not having to contribute. Not everyone can always have a niche in society at any given time.

 

[Jay.]

What do you mean?
I don't understand your point.

I think the looters/rioter should be captured by the riot police after being brought down to the ground and handcuffed, arrested, sent to court and jail for a decent amount of time.
What on earth makes you think I support criminal activity?

You are trolling me?

The videos that are shown everywhere only seem to show the police using what people call unnecessary force.
How would anyone know exactly what the thug, or would you prefer 'victim', did before being 'attacked' by the police.
For all we know your 'victim' may have just thrown a rock at a policemans head. The police would then have every right to be forceful.

 

[Jay.]

What about those who are here legally, are civil and abide by the law, but perhaps don't fit in and don't help or work much. You would like to see them deported against their will?

No. Read my posts again. I said those that are currently breaking the law and are temporary residents on visas.

 

[axletramp]

I do hope someone here isn't looking for some more wind-up fodder...

 

[dhandeh]

I do hope someone here isn't looking for some more wind-up fodder...

Probably off renaming a Rodney King video, to 'England Riots 2011'.

 

[TB]

The videos that are shown everywhere only seem to show the police using what people call unnecessary force.
How would anyone know exactly what the thug, or would you prefer 'victim', did before being 'attacked by the police.
For all we know your 'victim' may have just thrown a rock at a policemans head.

I know things are drastically different regarding the police in the US and the UK but violence is the last resort irregardless of locale. If someone is tazed/shot/etc. they almost certainly had it coming. Maybe that's my naive Midwestern attitude but if given a choice between an enraged meth addict wielding a machete (has happened here)/thief (especially at this scale)/etc. and an officer, I side with the officer.

 

[Jay.]

I also feel that over the last few decades the police have had a hard time with restrictions and red tape, and as soon as they act with any responsibility the press jump like they've had a battering ram up their ass.

The press scrutinize EVERY action the police force makes. They make the police look worse.
Each individual policeman KNOWS that the press is watching everything they do.
If you were in their position would you 'attack' a 'victim' for no reason? Knowing that you're being watched? and knowing you'll be reprimanded if you do?

The police force should have more backing from Britains public. The press are the worst trolls ever.

 

[dhandeh]

I know things are drastically different regarding the police in the US and the UK but violence is the last resort irregardless of locale. If someone is tazed/shot/etc. they almost certainly had it coming. Maybe that's my naive Midwestern attitude but if given a choice between an enraged meth addict wielding a machete (has happened here)/thief (especially at this scale)/etc. and an officer, I side with the officer.

👍

The incident in the video that has brought on this discussion, has followed several days of violence in England. Now, you have to thick as pig 🤬, to be out, with hoodies, on bikes, in an area that has experienced this trouble, and then expect the Police to tip their hat to you and send your on the way.

The Police have been tasked to restore law and order back to the communities, and they will do it in anyway they see fit. To think that they are going around looking for people to beat up, is frankly ridiculous.

 

[axletramp]

Probably off renaming a Rodney King video, to 'England Riots 2011'.

 

[homeforsummer]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429

I thought something along these lines would appear soon.

Not surprised. Funny to see that Labour MP complaining about it too - the Tory e-petitions website may only have been set up recently, but Labour had the exact same system when they were in power, only they usually had a smarmy-ass response as to why they wouldn't be listening to what tens of thousands of British citizens were asking for...

It is something worthy of investigation.
I post the video here and people give the impression of "so what?" or, "that's what they need".

Yes, it is what the little scumbags needed. I think anyone here would be happy to admit that, and I'd wager most of the country too - especially those who've lost homes, businesses, possessions - and loved ones.

Aside from this though, the police does not need to clarify the incident. The force has been given the go-ahead to use sufficient force to bring about the arrest of those involved in the rioting.

I don't know if you've ever seen any of those TV police programs like Road Wars before, but this sort of stuff happens, in front of the cameras, quite frequently. If someone has committed a crime and run from the police - and especially if they've been violent towards an officer, which the video you posted isn't long enough to make clear - then the police are quite entitled to break out the batons and subdue the criminal for the purpose of arresting them.

The basic underlying point that you seem to be ignoring though is that had these people not committed a crime in the first place then they wouldn't be being arrested - in any manner. Why that is so hard to fathom is beyond me.

 

[PeterJB]

What do you mean?
I don't understand your point.

I think the looters/rioter should be captured by the riot police after being brought down to the ground and handcuffed, arrested, sent to court and jail for a decent amount of time.
What on earth makes you think I support criminal activity?

You are trolling me?

It's kinda hard to arrest somebody if you haven't already captured them...

 

[m0rris]

Moot, I have a simple question for you. In your world how would those policemen have successfully apprehended those suspects shown in the video?

m0rris

 

[Moot]

How would anyone know exactly what the thug, or would you prefer 'victim', did before being 'attacked' by the police.
For all we know your 'victim' may have just thrown a rock at a policemans head. The police would then have every right to be forceful.

What the thug did before is unrelated to the force needed to subdue and arrest.
Why the fixation of what the people have already done?
This is about the few seconds from knocking him off his bike to what happened next.
Nothing before that counts for anything.
And it would not count for anything for a jury to decide on in court either when the police get prosecuted.
The trial would be about were the strikes needed to perform the arrest, was the kick needed to the head to perform the arrest?

Moot, I have a simple question for you. In your world how would those policemen have successfully apprehended those suspects shown in the video?

m0rris

Once he was on the floor, there were quite a few policeman around him, they could have held him down securely. If a strike is needed, do they all have to do it?

.............
As said before I await the results of the official investigation.
................

It's kinda hard to arrest somebody if you haven't already captured them...

Oh no! a massive hole in my argument...

The basic underlying point that you seem to be ignoring though is that had these people not committed a crime in the first place then they wouldn't be being arrested - in any manner. Why that is so hard to fathom is beyond me.

What have I ever posted on this thread that suggests I don't get that point?
But how is that point relevant. They were there, it did happen. The video exists..

 

[keldabest13]

Spurs V Everton off from the Riots!
I think football can stop the rioting if everyone gets together with their club and support their club!

 

[Jay.]

1 - What the thug did before is unrelated to the force needed to subdue and arrest.
2 - Why the fixation of what the people have already done?
3 - This is about the few seconds from knocking him off his bike to what happened next.
Nothing before that counts for anything.
4 - And it would not count for anything for a jury to decide on in court either when the police get prosecuted.
5 - The trial would be about were the strikes needed to perform the arrest, was the kick needed to the head to perform the arrest?

1 - Unrelated? BS! Try telling that to the family of the policeman he may have just put into intensive care.

2 - Committing a crime is an offence. This leads to being arrested. Many of which are violent and try to resist arrest.

3 - I didn't see the guy being knocked off his bike. Looked like he got off put it down. Maybe he just wanted a hug.

4 - The police being prosecuted? after being given the go-ahead to use force. Don't be ridiculous.

5 - Again you don't know what your 'Victim' did beforehand. He was there. He is a thug, and in my opinion he deserved it.


Is this enough food for a troll to live on?

 

[m0rris]

Once he was on the floor, there were quite a few policeman around him, they could have held him down securely. If a strike is needed, do they all have to do it?

So they still need significant force to remove him from his pedal cycle...!

With people like these the police could not take the risk of going in softly, just as over in N Ireland the police don't rock up to riots without baton rounds. We are not talking about a system where the police have taken someone to the side of the road and beaten him for swearing, they are carrying bags of loot and have no respect to the law or the police.

We shouldn't let these people prowl around feeling untouchable, the police need to make their presence felt. We are seemingly the only nation in the world where riot police have to watch people destroy everything that the hard working people of this country have built up anddo nothing because we can't go in hard for fear of upsetting their rights - the principle of which they show no signs of reciprocating to their fellow man.

m0rris

 

[Jay.]

So they still need significant force to remove him from his pedal cycle...!

With people like these the police could not take the risk of going in softly, just as over in N Ireland the police don't rock up to riots without baton rounds. We are not talking about a system where the police have taken someone to the side of the road and beaten him for swearing, they are carrying bags of loot and have no respect to the law or the police.

We shouldn't let these people prowl around feeling untouchable, the police need to make their presence felt. We are seemingly the only nation in the world where riot police have to watch people destroy everything that the hard working people of this country have built up anddo nothing because we can't go in hard for fear of upsetting their rights - the principle of which they show no signs of reciprocating to their fellow man.

m0rris

Well said. 👍

Something I heard on the radio from a couple of young girls 'interviewed while looting...

"We're doing it because we can. We want to show the rich people and the police that we CAN do what we want."

 

[PeterJB]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9562095.stm

Jenson Button will drive his McLaren car on a demonstration run through the streets of Manchester on 29 August. He said: "I hope Manchester is going to be out in force."

Yeah, I think they will be.

 

[Moot]

1 - Unrelated? BS! Try telling that to the family of the policeman he may have just put into intensive care.

2 - Committing a crime is an offence. This leads to being arrested. Many of which are violent and try to resist arrest.

3 - I didn't see the guy being knocked off his bike. Looked like he got off put it down. Maybe he just wanted a hug.

4 - The police being prosecuted? after being given the go-ahead to use force. Don't be ridiculous.

5 - Again you don't know what your 'Victim' did beforehand. He was there. He is a thug, and in my opinion he deserved it.


Is this enough food for a troll to live on?

Any retribution violence served to a thug/looter/rioter/rapist/murderer is illegal and a criminal act, whether a policeman does it or anyone else. It will go to court.

 

[Jay.]

Any retribution violence served to a thug/looter/rioter/rapist/murderer is illegal and a criminal act, whether a policeman does it or anyone else.
It will go to court.

Your opinion.

Personally, like some others here, I agree with the actions of the police force so far.

 

[dhandeh]

Any retribution violence served to a thug/looter/rioter/rapist/murderer is illegal and a criminal act, whether a policeman does it or anyone else. It will go to court.

None of that happened in the video. Move on people, nothing to see here.

 

[Moot]

None of that happened in the video. .

How do you know? Even the GMP force don't know.
It's being investigated.

Your opinion.

Personally, like some others here, I agree with the actions of the police force so far.

You can agree, I could agree.
But agreement of support of the actions doesn't mean they are legal, and in the best interest of justice.

........
We can let this track subside until a further official announcement.

 

[Jay.]

None of that happened in the video. Move on people, nothing to see here.

How do you know? Even the GMP force don't know.
It's being investigated.

 

[dhandeh]

Ok, then how do YOU know.

You, have been exposed as being out the loop, and haven't got the mineral's to admit that the majority of people don't agree with you. You keep, coming out with the same inane rubbish.

If this was police brutality, I'm sure it would be top news, not on a website for Gran turismo.

 

[Moot]

Ok, then how do YOU know.

You, have been exposed as being out the loop, and haven't got the mineral's to admit that the majority of people don't agree with you. You keep, coming out with the same inane rubbish.

If this was police brutality, I'm sure it would be top news, not on a website for Gran turismo.

I don't know. But as I have said, my view is based on the possibility. Also it opened a dialogue on which I could counter views irrespective of whether what happened was within police rules or not.
It's a significant topic as otherwise no one would have bothered replying to me.
I suggest all people who I wind up or think I just troll, please use the ignore function, then you can stop causing problems on the forum by getting personal. You are choosing to read what I post, you simply don't have to, use your control settings.

 

[homeforsummer]

What have I ever posted on this thread that suggests I don't get that point?
But how is that point relevant. They were there, it did happen. The video exists..

Every single time you imply police brutality it implies that the police treatment is unjust or excessive.

It would be unjust and excessive on innocent members of the public, it is neither on criminals. The point is completely relevant because you're acting like the police have done something wrong, when they haven't.

Saying it's excessive force and police brutality goes right back to Famine's point from a few pages back that every worthless little scrote committing a crime these days seems to believe they have "rights" and that the police must treat them with kid gloves. It's bollocks and the sooner everyone realises that the better.

Spurs V Everton off from the Riots!
I think football can stop the rioting if everyone gets together with their club and support their club!

Because violence never happens at football games

How do you know? Even the GMP force don't know.
It's being investigated.

You continue to mistake the police statement with evidence that they'll investigate anything.

As the circumstances surrounding the footage of this particular incident are currently unknown, it is inappropriate for GMP to comment further.

This doesn't mean "we're investigating it". It means "we don't know what happened, so we can't comment".

And for the last time, it wasn't excessive and undue violence. They had a criminal, they subdued him for arrest. Simple as that.

 

[Moot]

You may call it "bollocks", but it's the law.
In that sense yes I am implying it's unjust and excessive, because it's not lawful.
That view of law maybe wrong, it's just how I see the video.

 

[homeforsummer]

You may call it "bollocks", but it's the law.
In that sense yes I am implying it's unjust and excessive.

Exactly what part of it is "the law"?

Far as I can see the police are using the power they've been granted by the prime minister to uphold the law by bringing a criminal into custody.

Police wouldn't be allowed to carry batons if there was no situation in which they were allowed to use them.