Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?

[SpawnBlack]

Question to all who are afraid of the rewind feature:

Have you played any game with rewind a reasonable amount yet?

By this I mean more than just "a few plays to see what it's all about and maybe see this ridiculous rewind feature" kind of plays, but actually play it seriously and see how rewind ends up effecting you?

Becaues having played quite a bit with rewind now I can say many of the fears here are unfounded.

Just becase you have it does NOT mean you WILL use it. Just like having cosmetic damage and AT transmission available does not mean you use them.

Learning a course is not about only one corner at a time. I agree, but that's the beauty of rewind, you rewind back far enough that you are back on confident ground, then take it from there. For instance if you have problems with a turn with few braking markers and a blind hill, you would rewind back to the first previous straight, to a point on that straight you can already get to easily and confidently. No need to practice what's before that because you can get there easily, now just focus on the part you have trouble with.

It's not realistic, real drivers don't get to rewind. No, and when a real driver fails out of a race, they don't get to do it again for a better finish... it's done. No pause restart. Real drivers don't get to see their cars from behind using a chase cam while racing or a bumper cam. Things that are forced on you in a sim should be as realistic as is feasible, options, obviously are there for convenience and enjoyability.

Rewind will make GT a joke/we will look bad/no one will take use seriously anymore! Who are you worried about anyway? You? If you can't stay off the rewind button, that's no ones fault but yours, so if you think that makes you look bad, you have no one to blame but yourself and it only looks like what it really is. Lap times should obviously be marked that they were done with rewind, but outside of that what exactly are people worried about?

It's like I said before, are you worried that just because you stay in a hotel that has porn on pay per view everyone will suddenly think you are a porn addict?

If you hate porn and don't want to see it, is staying in a hotel with porn available going to be any different for you than one that doesn't have it? No... you won't be seeing it anyway...

 

[Slurm]

You guys just don't get it. I haven't even read what you've typed to me because my feelings about the issue are not up for debate, and not subject to your logic. I understand your feelings and I accept that you want a rewind feature. I understand all of your reasons, but I'd rather it wasn't included. It's SO simple.

It's completely inconsequential anyway. I am just a fan who isn't that keen on it. My opinion isn't going to change the development of the game, nor will I run my mouth off if we get it.

A livery editor is one of my most wanted features, but I know there are some who don't want it in GT: They feel that GT has never had this feature, and, for them, it would change the game in a way they don't want. I don't blast them about their opinion because I understand that even though they have the option not to use it, it does change the game. I would love the livery editor, but I completely understand and sympathise with those who have a completely opposite point of view. The universe doesn't revolve around me, or you. kthxbye

 

[turbomp301]

Question to all who are afraid of the rewind feature:

Have you played any game with rewind a reasonable amount yet?

By this I mean more than just "a few plays to see what it's all about and maybe see this ridiculous rewind feature" kind of plays, but actually play it seriously and see how rewind ends up effecting you?

Becaues having played quite a bit with rewind now I can say many of the fears here are unfounded.

Just becase you have it does NOT mean you WILL use it. Just like having cosmetic damage and AT transmission available does not mean you use them.

Learning a course is not about only one corner at a time. I agree, but that's the beauty of rewind, you rewind back far enough that you are back on confident ground, then take it from there. For instance if you have problems with a turn with few braking markers and a blind hill, you would rewind back to the first previous straight, to a point on that straight you can already get to easily and confidently. No need to practice what's before that because you can get there easily, now just focus on the part you have trouble with.

It's not realistic, real drivers don't get to rewind. No, and when a real driver fails out of a race, they don't get to do it again for a better finish... it's done. No pause restart. Real drivers don't get to see their cars from behind using a chase cam while racing or a bumper cam. Things that are forced on you in a sim should be as realistic as is feasible, options, obviously are there for convenience and enjoyability.

Rewind will make GT a joke/we will look bad/no one will take use seriously anymore! Who are you worried about anyway? You? If you can't stay off the rewind button, that's no ones fault but yours, so if you think that makes you look bad, you have no one to blame but yourself and it only looks like what it really is. Lap times should obviously be marked that they were done with rewind, but outside of that what exactly are people worried about?

It's like I said before, are you worried that just because you stay in a hotel that has porn on pay per view everyone will suddenly think you are a porn addict?

If you hate porn and don't want to see it, is staying in a hotel with porn available going to be any different for you than one that doesn't have it? No... you won't be seeing it anyway...

I've come out of retirement form this thread to say nobody here is scared of rewind anymore than your scared of those that don't think it should be in the game.

Dev, I'll try and find some middle ground here. How about we worry about getting the features based on reality perfected(smoke,skids,damage,physics,customization,cars,tracks,etc.) before we worry about adding more features that aren't.

 

[Kryz11]

People will abuse it, you dont learn the track this way.. you will become worst online..
GOD plese no!!!

 

[sparkedglory]

No, just no, Rewind is one of the the worst things that could happen

 

[bevo]

I don't understand. GT has B spec. You can actually go to sleep, wake up, and a race is finished, money has been won, and possibly a car unlocked for you. How is that not 10 times worse then rewind. I really don't like rewind either, but a checkpoint system that works every 5 or 10 laps or so would be welcomed by me. The endurance races get crazy in GT sometimes, and I would rather be able to race them over a couple of days, then to have to use B spec and not even take part in the race.

 

[Devedander]

I've come out of retirement form this thread to say nobody here is scared of rewind anymore than your scared of those that don't think it should be in the game.

People will abuse it, you dont learn the track this way.. you will become worst online..
GOD plese no!!!

 

[turbomp301]

A man pleading to god. Does this emotion stem from fear or hate? I think the latter. Nox you may correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, your post started with "to all", implying that there are many. You have shown me only one and I dissargee with your example. So really, from your point of view, your post should have started with "To NoxNoctis Umbra".

 

[eMke3]

I say no. The only rewinding I wouldn't mind, would be replay rewind to see some bad ass collision or overtake.

 

[McLaren]

And you must be here to ruin everyone's fun on here and discredit everyone's Opinion on Style of play, Driving Style, and willingness not to have something in the game which would only bring down it's credibility as the best Racing Sim on any console.

I'm here to show you all that your opinions are worthless dribbles of crap, because you all constantly complain that it makes the game arcade, that people will become worse, that it will be abused.

Sorry, you have nothing to base such claims on. More so, you all continue to act like you will have to use it.

Please, shove this into your skull. Rewind is an option, not a mandatory item.

If you use it, fine. If you don't, fine. It does not affect other people in any way.

Frankly McLaren your opinions dissapoint me and simply is a fuItile attempt to make us all see that your practical yet utterly pointless views are waisted here. The simple fact is and what everyone here is saying is that it is not needed in GT5 or any future GT Series.

Sorry, that's your opinion, not fact.

This is why you people have awful reasons. You tout everything as some kind of fact. It's not.

Stop re-posting everyone's quote McLaren and come up with something other than fighting down everyone's views.

Stop posting that no one wants rewind as a fact. You don't know everyone, and you can NOT prove your claims of what you think it will do to people.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

People don't do it in real life because it would be much much easier to just do another lap than to turn around.

If that's the case, why do we need a rewind feature?

Imagine that there was only one corner that you were having problems with at the nurburgring. Do you think it would be more effective to just run entire laps to perfect that corner or a combination of full laps and concentrating on that corner?

I'd rather finish the whole track because there's no such thing as practicing too many times. But if I wanted to skip doing the entire track, I'd rather restart. At least that way I can assure I've got all the previous sectors down pat.

It would help him immesnely, especially on a long track. To think they don't do it because it's not helpful is an irrational proposition born from having a baseless dislike, and then AFTERWARDS searching for a reason. The reason people don't make U turns on a track is because they'll probably die from oncoming traffic and that tracks are one way streets. They are designed for use in one direction so you won't be allowed to go reverse.

Um....solo laps? No traffic? They still race one way, even if there's nothing stopping them from doing so. If you're on a long track and keep focusing on one single corner, by the time you get to the end you'll have to start again because you'll have neglected the rest, so it's useless.

Secondly, rewind is 100% realistic. If an F1 driver has at his disposal a F1 simulator that he uses for practice, and it lets him rewind, change whether, make fantasy adjustments to his car, etc, why can't you have that in a simulator?

Do you know of any race teams that have a simulator with rewind? Do tell, because that should be able to tell you how useful rewind is.

No doing the whole track is not better. When one corner is killing you, the entire rest of the track is a waste of time. It's using up your practice time and your energy. Even if a corner is one minute from start, a 20 second rewind increases your productivity by three times. It also removes a huge amount a variation that will come lap by lap. When you rewind, you will be in the exact same position as when you started. When you go around things will have changed, slightly degrading your accuracy. Again, you're making up a reason to cover your bias.

Point broken.

Sorry, try again. The only way you could consider practicing entire laps as "a waste of time" is if you're 110% sure you're gonna get everything else perfect. But you just admitted that if you go around the entire track, things change. That's an indication that you're making mistakes somewhere else as well, not just on one corner. Again, if this was really helpful, real drivers would be doing it too.

 

[Tornado]

Do I want rewind? No. Would I be annoyed if it was included? Yes, but I really don't care. But will the GT series would be RUINED FOREVER if it was included?

Again, you're making up a reason to cover your bias.

Using a subjective argument with no true factual grounds to claim that another subjective argument with no true factual grounds is because of bias? I love it!
In actuality, you are ignoring his reasoning because it contrasts with your own thoughts on the subject (more on that in a second), something that has been happening very much in this thread from both sides of the coin. Before you claim a viewpoint is made up purely of bias, perhaps you should look up the reasoning behind the statement. There have sadly really only been a handful of posts that have explained things thoroughly for each viewpoint, but lashing out at one of the ones that attempts to do so doesn't make your side of the idea any better.

No doing the whole track is not better. When one corner is killing you, the entire rest of the track is a waste of time. It's using up your practice time and your energy.

Tracks, for the most part, are not simple corners and straights. There is a flow to things. If you are screwing up one corner consistently but have the rest of the track perfected, it is likely that you really don't have the rest of the track perfected.
For example, there are tracks in GT4 where I can screw up a single corner and screw up half of my lap as a direct consequence, at which point a rewind feature would be useless to me compared to simply redoing the lap. Then again, there is one spot at Grand Valley that I screw up quite spectacularly every once-in-a-while that definitely is isolated, so a rewind could come in handy there. It really is a per-case basis.

Even if a corner is one minute from start, a 20 second rewind increases your productivity by three times.

The hell? This isn't an assembly line. Productivity isn't a tangible benefit in this scenario, and it isn't as if redoing a lap is somehow wasted time anyways.

It also removes a huge amount a variation that will come lap by lap.

Something that also does that is practicing the track lap by lap. The more practice you have with an overall course layout, the more consistent you will be overall. Rewinding to do one corner over and over again wouldn't help much if the reason you are screwing up is because you made a mistake 3 turns back and didn't notice it.

 

[Bank]

Answer:

We need a Rewind Button in GT5 Replays.
Like some other folks said.

This is all about human psychology that we can't comprehend

 

[vaioleto]

I don't understand. GT has B spec. You can actually go to sleep, wake up, and a race is finished, money has been won, and possibly a car unlocked for you. How is that not 10 times worse then rewind. I really don't like rewind either, but a checkpoint system that works every 5 or 10 laps or so would be welcomed by me. The endurance races get crazy in GT sometimes, and I would rather be able to race them over a couple of days, then to have to use B spec and not even take part in the race.

Because having a co-driver/driver for hire drive for/with you in races is less realistic than having control over space time and being able to rewind time itself. You make sense, completely.

 

[Exorcet]

um....solo laps? No traffic? They still race one way, even if there's nothing stopping them from doing so. If you're on a long track and keep focusing on one single corner, by the time you get to the end you'll have to start again because you'll have neglected the rest, so it's useless.

reply in bold

the above ignores how i said you are only allowed to run a track in one direction for safety reasons. A track is designed for one direction, so the walls and crash barriers are focused for the correct direction.


do you know of any race teams that have a simulator with rewind? Do tell, because that should be able to tell you how useful rewind is.

i don't know much about race team preparation specifically, but the point was not that it does happen, but can happen. If teams use it, it is useful. If they don't, it's either not useful (unlikely for various reasons presented earlier) or has not caught on. In any case, if you consider forza 3, gt with/without rewind, or a generic simulator with/without a rewind system a sim, then in real life any race driver can use a sim with rewind. The catch here of course is most of those sims were not intended for professional race use. But it does not automatically rule out the usefulness of rewind. I believe someone said they had a chance to use a professional 737 sim with a rewind feature of some sort. Evidence would be nice.

sorry, try again. The only way you could consider practicing entire laps as "a waste of time" is if you're 110% sure you're gonna get everything else perfect. But you just admitted that if you go around the entire track, things change. That's an indication that you're making mistakes somewhere else as well, not just on one corner. Again, if this was really helpful, real drivers would be doing it too.

so natural human inaccuracy is a mistake? Things change even if you're an f1 world champion. The variation is smaller, but still there. Rewind will let you eliminate any variation so you can focus on your trouble spot. Real drivers not using it does not imply it's not helpful. Real drivers refusing to use it might, real driver suffering from its use would prove it's no help.

By the way, i think this forum has a "that special corner" topic. Seems people can separate a corner from the rest of the track just fine.

using a subjective argument with no true factual grounds to claim that another subjective argument with no true factual grounds is because of bias? I love it!
In actuality, you are ignoring his reasoning because it contrasts with your own thoughts on the subject (more on that in a second), something that has been happening very much in this thread from both sides of the coin. Before you claim a viewpoint is made up purely of bias, perhaps you should look up the reasoning behind the statement. There have sadly really only been a handful of posts that have explained things thoroughly for each viewpoint, but lashing out at one of the ones that attempts to do so doesn't make your side of the idea any better.

point taken, he may truly believe that lapping a full track is better. I can't recall my exact state of mind when i accused him of being biased as i've posted so much in this thread. I will modify my statement. The fact that people don't make u turns on a track is not sufficient to prove that they think they will/will benefit from doing full laps only. Alternate explanations exist, have been given, and are plausable.


tracks, for the most part, are not simple corners and straights. There is a flow to things. If you are screwing up one corner consistently but have the rest of the track perfected, it is likely that you really don't have the rest of the track perfected.
For example, there are tracks in gt4 where i can screw up a single corner and screw up half of my lap as a direct consequence, at which point a rewind feature would be useless to me compared to simply redoing the lap. Then again, there is one spot at grand valley that i screw up quite spectacularly every once-on-a-while that definitely is isolated, so a rewind could come in handy there. It really is a per-case basis.

so my point is upheld by your own paragraph. Isolated corners exist, rewind has a place. You should take note that i never disputed that corners could be linked or that all corners are isolated. And if we are using anecdotal evidence, back during early gt2 i had trouble with the last turn at red rock even though i could do the rest of the track blindfolded.


the hell? This isn't an assembly line. Productivity isn't a tangible benefit in this scenario, and it isn't as if redoing a lap is somehow wasted time anyways.

you're wrong. A typical component of practice is repetition. Would you rather take one lap a day to learn a track, or 10? Redoing a lap is wasted time if you know the entire track up and after the section you want to practice on. We both agree that an isolated part of the track can cause trouble.

something that also does that is practicing the track lap by lap. The more practice you have with an overall course layout, the more consistent you will be overall. Rewinding to do one corner over and over again wouldn't help much if the reason you are screwing up is because you made a mistake 3 turns back and didn't notice it.
contradiction, more time spent practicing is more productive, that's what you said right there. Yet a paragraph ago you said productivity doesn't exist in the context of practice driving.

q

 

[Tornado]

The reasoning for my post wasn't to disagree with you so much as it was to explain what SUPER NUMBBER was saying. I intentionally added that rewind could potentially be useful after the fact, so I know full well what I was saying.

Also:

Yet a paragraph ago you said productivity doesn't exist in the context of practice driving.

What I meant was that "productivity" is not a measurable, objective thing in this situation, which is what you were treating it as. I was using the idea of increased practice as an example of why. You say repeating lap after lap is a waste of time. Someone else could say that it helps you learn the track. Neither of you are actually wrong, which is why the concept of productivity doesn't apply the way you used it.

 

[Exorcet]

But I've specified that I'm saying doing a full lap does not help when you're facing trouble only in a certain part of the track. To say that lapping is useless fullstop doesn't make sense.

OK, it can be said that, productivity is not objectively measurable, but I think you can say that the more you do things, the better you get at them. Rewind lets you do something more times.

 

[Zathra5_]

If that's the case, why do we need a rewind feature?

who says we need rewind. I'm only saying that it could be useful in some instances. What does not doing it in real life have anything to do with it?

I'd rather finish the whole track because there's no such thing as practicing too many times. But if I wanted to skip doing the entire track, I'd rather restart. At least that way I can assure I've got all the previous sectors down pat.

You can't restart in real life. Why would you want to do it in the game? What if you have the previous sectors down pat?

Um....solo laps? No traffic? They still race one way, even if there's nothing stopping them from doing so. If you're on a long track and keep focusing on one single corner, by the time you get to the end you'll have to start again because you'll have neglected the rest, so it's useless.

Who said you would neglect the rest of the corners? You can do a combo of rewind laps and nonrewind laps. Working on weaknesses is a very common technique in most sports (or life in general).

Again, if this was really helpful, real drivers would be doing it too.

How do you know that real drivers don't do it in their simulators? In the end no argument made here can prove that it is or isn't an effective way to get better. However a mixture of laps where you work on weak corners and on whole laps is consistent with principles of motor learning.

 

[RedSuinit]

No. That's what the license tests are for, to teach you how to drive... NOT a rewind feature... If you screw up on one corner and it ruins your race, too bad... Your fault, you messed up, catch up or restart (which you can't even do in real life). Rewind is not needed, and is only wanted by those who suck at the game. Forza 3 bringing in rewind is a bad move in my opinion. There was a good simulator taking one small step towards being an arcade game, which is very unfortunate because it is a good game. The demo is fantastic.

 

[yeti]

Rewind?

Maybe in time trial (invalidates record)...

But not in a race... especially not an online race.

C.

 

[jagenigma]

I don't understand. GT has B spec. You can actually go to sleep, wake up, and a race is finished, money has been won, and possibly a car unlocked for you. How is that not 10 times worse then rewind. I really don't like rewind either, but a checkpoint system that works every 5 or 10 laps or so would be welcomed by me. The endurance races get crazy in GT sometimes, and I would rather be able to race them over a couple of days, then to have to use B spec and not even take part in the race.

You Obviously haven't used B-Spec in GT4 for anything other than Endurance races. Seriously, B-Spec sucks hard. B-Spec messes up just as much as the AI in the game and it is tedious to have to keep teaching it how to drive.
Most of us drive in A-Spec because we want to learn the courses Become better at racing/driving sim games and not be a cheating rewinding punter on online mode. Really, people have to realise that not only does the rewind mode kill the realism of the game, but it also makes you a crappy racer because it isn't only one turn in the game that you will be using it for. It is probably going to be a very abused feature in the games that include it like GRiD and Forza. The purpose of racing and driving in GT5 is to learn the flow of a track and to learn how a car handles as you drive it. With the rewind feature you will be missing out on that experience.

 

[Exorcet]

but it also makes you a crappy racer because it isn't only one turn in the game that you will be using it for. It is probably going to be a very abused feature

1 Prove it.

2 Why does the way other people play single player bother/effect you at all?

 

[Rykon Zero]

In GT4 I used a gameshark in order to get several million credits. if there is a definition of cheating, it's there. I also did the same in the original Forza, but that by no means says I am a bad driver, or a bad player. I just didn't have the time or patience. and to prove that to myself, I've racked up 2,000,000 credits in Forza 2.

 

[Exorcet]

That's not cheating. You can't cheat in single player, it's you and no one else. Play however.

 

[bevo]

Because having a co-driver/driver for hire drive for/with you in races is less realistic than having control over space time and being able to rewind time itself. You make sense, completely.

Come on man, you don't drive the car in B spec. You can speed up B spec 4 or 8 times. I can't remember the max FF speed that B spec lets you use. So yes you do have control over space and time with B spec.

The computer drives the car for you. How is that better then a rewind function. You just build your car up, go to B spec, and let the computer lap everyone. How is that possibly better then rewind. At least with rewind you drive the car.

Gt is the real driving simulator, not the car team owner simulator. You should have to drive the car in every race, you shouldn't be able to hit a button, and let the computer beat the race for you. So what if you mess up a turn, hit a button and try the turn again with rewind. With B spec you don't even try and take the turn in the first place.

Anyone who is against rewind should really be against B spec. You don't even drive the car for god's sake. You literally can win a race while you are not even home. How could that possibly take more skill then playing the game, screwing up on a turn, hitting the rewind feature, and starting before that turn again.

It is absolutely absurd to believe that B spec takes more skill then a rewind feature. There is no way anyone with any common sense whatsoever would believe that. You don't even drive the car on B spec.

I'm rambling now so I'll stop, I just can't believe that anyone who complains about rewind would be alright with B spec.

 

[JohnBM01]

I've never hinted towards being scared of a Rewind feature. I know I'm not going to be for a Rewind feature, but I'm purely an old-style gamer. Things like a rewind feature certainly helps people out, but I'm just not liking this. And with many of the comments I've seen in this thread, this thread may be borderline closed or full of admonishments from all the arguing we've done. I've just said it plainly and not really with any hostility or anger- NO rewind for GT5, at least in my estimation. To each their own...

 

[vaioleto]

Come on man, you don't drive the car in B spec. You can speed up B spec 4 or 8 times. I can't remember the max FF speed that B spec lets you use. So yes you do have control over space and time with B spec.

The computer drives the car for you. How is that better then a rewind function. You just build your car up, go to B spec, and let the computer lap everyone. How is that possibly better then rewind. At least with rewind you drive the car.

Gt is the real driving simulator, not the car team owner simulator. You should have to drive the car in every race, you shouldn't be able to hit a button, and let the computer beat the race for you. So what if you mess up a turn, hit a button and try the turn again with rewind. With B spec you don't even try and take the turn in the first place.

Anyone who is against rewind should really be against B spec. You don't even drive the car for god's sake. You literally can win a race while you are not even home. How could that possibly take more skill then playing the game, screwing up on a turn, hitting the rewind feature, and starting before that turn again.

It is absolutely absurd to believe that B spec takes more skill then a rewind feature. There is no way anyone with any common sense whatsoever would believe that. You don't even drive the car on B spec.

I'm rambling now so I'll stop, I just can't believe that anyone who complains about rewind would be alright with B spec.

It let's you speed things forward, not backwards... there is a difference as hard as it is to believe.

*sigh

 

[G.T.Ace]

Dont want to really discuss it, because people will disagree with me saying "dont use it if you dont like it" without really thinking about it, or what i write, so just a short answer to the thread title:

Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?

No.

 

[Devedander]

A man pleading to god. Does this emotion stem from fear or hate? I think the latter. Nox you may correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, your post started with "to all", implying that there are many. You have shown me only one and I dissargee with your example. So really, from your point of view, your post should have started with "To NoxNoctis Umbra".

Why does one have to exclude the other? Isn't it very much possible to fear something you hate being forced upon you? Isn't that what most people here are saying? I fear being in a car accident because I hate being injured and or disabled. I fear being raped because I hate being raped. I fear going to my aunts house because I hate her cooking.

They are worried that something they really don't want will be put into the game, so they fear that it will happen.

I mean we have people worried about how rewind will cause people to judge those who play GT... that sounds like fear of their stature being questioned to me.

And All just means everyone. If only one person fell into a category that would still be all... I do think my statement was towards more than one person, but all does not imply a number, it includes everything from none (all the vegetarians at the steak and porkchop buffet were over 6 feet all... all none of them) to every single one withought implying many, few, most etc.

 

[Tapey]

I'd vote no, purely because that would take development time away from other/better features. If development time was not an issue and rewind was something they could incorporate with a couple hours work, then sure I'd be all for it, but a feature such as that would take a buttload of time and effort to incorporate into the game, which is a lot of time and effort that would be much better spent elsewhere.