Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?

[Organ-Donor]

Or you could just have the option to rewind for those who would like to use it, and an option for those that don't want to use it. Solved.

Some people might want the option for cool perks or upgrades. You could just have the option to have special pickups to be able to shoot lasers from your car, leave oil puddles behind you, and spikes that come out of your wheels and shred oponents tires, and an option for those that don't want to use it. Solved.

Its not the idea of having the option, its the idea of having the feature in the game period.

 

[irnbrutwinturbo]

Or you could just have the option to rewind for those who would like to use it, and an option for those that don't want to use it. Solved.

Not solved. If your rewinding then your not playing GT. If someone feels the need to rewind, find another game that has it as a feature.

GT is different for reason. If it joins the ranks of 'lots of games have it now', its lost part of uniqueness.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Where is the proof that rewind is a handy learning tool Dravonic ?.

 

[Tornado]

Devedander, do you not do anything besides post in this thread or troll other threads?

Said while ironically trolling the thread.

GT is different for reason. If it joins the ranks of 'lots of games have it now', its lost part of uniqueness.

Uniqueness can very easily be another way of saying antiquated.

 

[vaioleto]

Where is the proof that rewind is a handy learning tool Dravonic ?.

In Devedander's posts... lol

She said as she trolled the thread.


Uniqueness can very easily be another way of saying antiquated.

And is GT5 antiquated because it won't have rewind?

And here comes Mr. I'll-argue-for-the-sake-of-arguing!

 

[Tornado]

And the trolling continues!

Regardless of all that, I don't really know. Time will tell is the only answer I can give to that, but I'd assume not when GT5s feature set is shaping up to be robust anyways. But not having a feature just because other games already have it doesn't really make sense, and it would be very easy for a series to become out-of-date if that is used as an excuse for not updating its feature set.

 

[vaioleto]

And the trolling continues!

Regardless, I don't really know. Time will tell is the only answer I can give to that, but I'd assume not when GT5s feature set is shaping up to be robust anyways. But not having a feature just because other games already have it doesn't really make sense, and it would be very easy for a series to become out-of-date if that is used as an excuse for not updating its feature set.

I doubt PD were ready to implement rewind and then they saw Forza 3 with it and said "Awww screw it, we'll leave this feature out because they have it!"

And if you don't like me picking apart your tirades, perhaps you should stop making them so hypocritical.

YOu know, you are like that guy at parties that hear something slightly incorrect and goes on a tirade about it, and at the end of the night, no one is talking to you.

 

[Tornado]

I doubt PD were ready to implement rewind and then they saw Forza 3 with it and said "Awww screw it, we'll leave this feature out because they have it!"

Which was kind of my point in the first place...

GT5 has over 950 cars, real time collisions, the best looks cars ever, 16 cars on track, 16, a crapload of tracks etc. running on the best hardware. Does that seem like it's antiquated to you?

Did I say it was?

YOu know, you are like that guy at parties that hear something slightly incorrect and goes on a tirade about it, and at the end of the night, no one is talking to you.

Actually, I just hate hypocrisy (and yes, that does mean feel free to point out anything I have said that is a double standard). I typically let incorrect info slide by unless it effects me personally.

 

[vaioleto]

Which was kind of my point in the first place...

But not having a feature just because other games already have it doesn't really make sense

...

 

[Tornado]

I was responding to a post that I read as "GT series shouldn't have rewind because other games already have it," and I was pointing out that I didn't think that made any sense.

 

[Devedander]

Damage came with evolution. It was coming whether we wanted it or not. It was just a matter of time before the machine could do the required processing to a high standard.

Rewind is not part of evolution to mimic reality.

I am not assuming anything about your skill level. The question is Should GT5 have a rewind option, i say no because it doesn't fit into the game as it currently stands, you say yes.

If PD/KY decide to put rewind in, i'd be pretty dissappointed that the company had changed direction and would start to wonder what would become of the franchise that is GT. So yes, i would apply more own logic, if PD/KY changed direction enough it would probably make me look even closer at competing products.

Actually I believe back in the damage thread there were at lesat a few people saying that KY obviuosly didn't want damage, otherwise damage would have been in by now and if you really want damage, go play something else that has damage... sounds familiar.

I would be pretty surprised also if damage was in GT anytime soon, but I was surprised at Bspec mode, I was surprised licenses were still around and I was suprised KY had to even wonder how much his fans wanted damage... although the difference between us is if I was surprised by rewind in GT, I would just shrug it off (and maybe try to get some of my lesser skilled friends to try GT again). It would in no way stop me from enjoying the parts of GT that I like (ie fun and challenging driving, lots of eye candy and a decent force feedback wheel -which isn't really part of GT but you know what I mean).

 

[Zathra5_]

This whole rewind thing is hilarious. You got one guy starting a whole thread about something that is very similar to rewind yet vehemently denying that it is anyway related.
When it comes to rewind during racing, I really don’t care either way but I have no plans on using it contrary to Dravonic’s opinion.
With respect to using it as a training tool, I think that you can either take the purist view that everything must be as realistic as possible or you can take the view that a computer simulation is a very flexible tool and anything that you can use that is going to make you a better driver is fair game. That could be telemetry that you would never get in real life, or the ability to practice corners multiple times, or anything else that you can think of. Personally I don’t understand the purist option. It sounds very shortsighted to me. The second view is exactly what computer simulations are all about so I really don’t understand the friction that rewind is getting.

 

[vaioleto]

I was responding to a post that I read as "GT series shouldn't have rewind because other games already have it," and I was pointing out that I didn't think that made any sense.

Well, we're all speculating and none of us are making the game so...

Actually I believe back in the damage thread there were at lesat a few people saying that KY obviuosly didn't want damage, otherwise damage would have been in by now and if you really want damage, go play something else that has damage... sounds familiar.

A lot of people wanted damage (myself excluded), most of the people don't want rewind. It's not similar at all actually.

 

[Lucas]

Where is the proof that rewind is a handy learning tool Dravonic ?.

There's no proof (at least when talking about GT5), but it works the same as the license tests. They made you do the same section over and over again, and your skills increased. Rewind would do the same, basically.

Of course, this is especulation.

 

[Devedander]

A lot of people wanted damage (myself excluded), most of the people don't want rewind. It's not similar at all actually.

The positions and numbers were different, the argument was the same.

 

[Devedander]

There's no proof (at least when talking about GT5), but it works the same as the license tests. They made you do the same section over and over again, and your skills increased. Rewind would do the same, basically.

Of course, this is especulation.

Then again, where is the proof that rewind will be detrimental right? The ironic thing is that rewind has actually be put into games already and hasn't been detrimental so if anything, we have proof contrary to the "it's bad" point of view.

 

[Nomino]

There's no proof (at least when talking about GT5), but it works the same as the license tests. They made you do the same section over and over again, and your skills increased. Rewind would do the same, basically.

Of course, this is especulation.

I totally disagree. Do you really think the rewind feature made people better drivers in something like DiRT 2? No, of course not. It just means they could correct that particular mistake, complete the course, get the reward etc., and move on. It's not a training aid - it's a means to help all those lazy people out there who can't be bothered to start over again, which in itself, is a bit of a cheat, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

There is no way Kaz is stupid enough to put in this "feature" that basically ruins the whole concept of being a realistic driving simulator.

 

[vaioleto]

The positions and numbers were different, the argument was the same.

... and thus... rewind... will be in GT5?

You mean, everytime there is an argument about something, the subject in question will be implemented?

There's no proof (at least when talking about GT5), but it works the same as the license tests. They made you do the same section over and over again, and your skills increased. Rewind would do the same, basically.

Of course, this is especulation.

Don't think so. Novices who aren't very good will go off on every corner because no one told them to brake like in license tests and will abuse rewind with wild abandon. A lot of people who play GT, the first thing they do is tap the hand brake into a turn because they think that makes the car drift. My friend's little brother uses license tests, and he's very good. If he could just use rewind during races, he'd still be on the second corner, rewinding, going off again, rewinding, going off again.

 

[Devedander]

... and thus... rewind... will be in GT5?

You mean, everytime there is an argument about something, the subject in question will be implemented?

Ummm... never said anything of the like... I was responding to someone elses post and someone elese point, where if you read my response in context you will see what it means instead of trying to take it out of context to make it look like whatever you want.

Don't think so. Novices who aren't very good will go off on every corner because no one told them to brake like in license tests and will abuse rewind with wild abandon. A lot of people who play GT, the first thing they do is tap the hand brake into a turn because they think that makes the car drift. My friend's little brother uses license tests, and he's very good. If he could just use rewind during races, he'd still be on the second corner, rewinding, going off again, rewinding, going off again.

There you go again, assuming something and making a blanket statement. You have picked one situation and are saying it will apply in general.

I can tell you that what you are assuming almost certainly does happen to SOME people, but I personally know some who it wouldn't describe at all properly, so you cannot use it as a blanket statement and foundation for your argument.

All these arguments about what it will be used for, what people will do, how people will act... our schools are failing us... people need to be taught some basic logic and debate so we can avoid these time waster flawed arguments.

 

[Lucas]

I totally disagree.

Disagree all you want. As long as there's one person (like me) that will use rewind only in practice, then you are wrong.

Do you really think the rewind feature made people better drivers in something like DiRT 2? No, of course not.

DiRT 2 is not the same as GT5. I would expect someone to play GT5 to drive different than someone who plays DiRT 2.

It just means they could correct that particular mistake, complete the course, get the reward etc., and move on. It's not a training aid - it's a means to help all those lazy people out there who can't be bothered to start over again, which in itself, is a bit of a cheat, but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Much like B-Spec, right? I mean, those who are lazy will use B-Spec to win the race without doing anything, and they still get a reward.

And how come it is a cheat? If it comes with the game, is not a cheat. Unless it's a bug. You can use that feature (or cheat as you call it) if you want to. It's your problem if you don't.

There is no way Kaz is stupid enough to put in this "feature" that basically ruins the whole concept of being a realistic driving simulator.

Then why are you so worried about it? You are right in this bit, and I admit it, and I see it this way too.

 

[vaioleto]

Ummm... never said anything of the like... I was responding to someone elses post and someone elese point, where if you read my response in context you will see what it means instead of trying to take it out of context to make it look like whatever you want.



There you go again, assuming something and making a blanket statement. You have picked one situation and are saying it will apply in general.

I can tell you that what you are assuming almost certainly does happen to SOME people, but I personally know some who it wouldn't describe at all properly, so you cannot use it as a blanket statement and foundation for your argument.

All these arguments about what it will be used for, what people will do, how people will act... our schools are failing us... people need to be taught some basic logic and debate so we can avoid these time waster flawed arguments.

If by SOME people you mean 5 people out of thousands, then the blanket statement still applies. Because in the grande scheme of things, such a small ratio of people is completely inconsequential. Statistics, learn it.

 

[Lucas]

Statistics, learn it.

Link to those statistics of yours, please? I'm sure we all want to know where did you got your numbers.

 

[vaioleto]

Link to those statistics of yours, please? I'm sure we all want to know where did you got your numbers.

Why would I need numbers?

I said in the context that like 5 people out of this entire forum want rewind, the ratio is inconsequential in the grande scheme of things. The statistics are right there... in the poll.

 

[Hyst]

Anyone signed up to this forum has an interest in GT, and they wouldn't have an interest in GT if they didn't consider it at least a competent simulator, and as this is a very arcadish suggestion, a GT forum would hardly be the place to look if you're after the real answer to that question.

 

[Exorcet]

Why would I need numbers?

I said in the context that like 5 people out of this entire forum want rewind, the ratio is inconsequential in the grande scheme of things. The statistics are right there... in the poll.

Too bad PD can only sell 299 copies of a game.

If you want to talk statistics, realize 299 people is not a lot. Also, 19 people want it according to the poll and at least 30 would use it to practice, you didn't even count correctly.

 

[Devedander]

If by SOME people you mean 5 people out of thousands, then the blanket statement still applies. Because in the grande scheme of things, such a small ratio of people is completely inconsequential. Statistics, learn it.

So you think that your descriptions of how lower skilled users behave and act is accurate about 99.95% of them? That would be 5 out of a thousand wrong...

I think you would have a really hard time backing that up with anything factual.

I mean that may have been how YOU were, that may be how some people are, that's probably how a lot of us generalize it, but in reality, I know a lot of people who aren't good at GT, and the reasons run the gamut and no one really fits your description very well.

Statistics: 86.7% of them are made up on the spot.


EDIT: I just saw your clarification taht you are referring to the results of this survey.

Which makes your claims even more bogus.

One you made a blanket statement, not a blanket statement about members of this forum.

Two you are using the "statistics" from the poll to represent something entirely different. The number of people who voted yes/no/don't care in the poll in no way backs up your claim that everyone (or even most - engough to make a blanket statement) is a child who goes off every corner, rewinds a lot and throws controllers in frustration.

 

[Tornado]

Why would I need numbers?

I said in the context that like 5 people out of this entire forum want rewind, the ratio is inconsequential in the grande scheme of things. The statistics are right there... in the poll.

The fanbase (by which I mean people who go on message boards and talk about the games) and the consumer base (by which I mean the driving force behind sales, the typical average guy) are two different things that are two very different sizes, and they rarely share an overall viewpoint between themselves, if one even exists.
We are lucky on this one issue because the majority does seem to want Rewind to stay out of the series. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the same holds true outside the fanbase. The GT series adds even more complexity to the pile because it attracts so many people who typically don't even play video games. As such, even if the poll was 100-1 against rewind, it isn't possible to judge whether or not it is a wanted feature by consumers in general.

There is a saying in the Sonic fanbase that, while it doesn't completely apply to this situation, comes pretty close:

The sooner Sonic fans realise that they make up probably less than 10% of the sales of any Sonic game, the sooner they will realise why no game will ever be aimed at them again

 

[Lucas]

To add to it, at the end of the day, Yamauchi will add what he thinks it's best for GT. So, even if the poll said 98% want Rewind, 2% don't, it doesn't affect Yamauchi's decision.

 

[Devedander]

The fanbase (by which I mean people who go on message boards and talk about the games) and the consumer base (by which I mean the driving force behind sales, the typical average guy) are two different things that are two very different sizes, and they rarely share an overall viewpoint between themselves, if one even exists.
We are lucky on this one issue because the majority does seem to want Rewind to stay out of the series. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the same holds true outside the fanbase. The GT series adds even more complexity to the pile because it attracts so many people who typically don't even play video games. As such, even if the poll was 100-1 against rewind, it isn't possible to judge whether or not it is a wanted feature by consumers in general.

There is a saying in the Sonic fanbase that, while it doesn't completely apply to this situation, comes pretty close:

Absolutely, and bear in mind, sooner or later every business hits a conflict of interest between it's creator and it's marketing needs. Even if KY didn't want rewind in the game, if marketing said it would bring in 30% more sales (ie make GT more accessible to the lower skilled players - not in any way related to the forum membership as we tend not to be those people at all) then I think KY would be in a tough spot not to put it in.

LOL

The sooner Sonic fans realise that they make up probably less than 10% of the sales of any Sonic game, the sooner they will realise why no game will ever be aimed at them again

So sad but so true

 

[vaioleto]

So you think that your descriptions of how lower skilled users behave and act is accurate about 99.95% of them? That would be 5 out of a thousand wrong...

I think you would have a really hard time backing that up with anything factual.

I mean that may have been how YOU were, that may be how some people are, that's probably how a lot of us generalize it, but in reality, I know a lot of people who aren't good at GT, and the reasons run the gamut and no one really fits your description very well.

Statistics: 86.7% of them are made up on the spot.


EDIT: I just saw your clarification taht you are referring to the results of this survey.

Which makes your claims even more bogus.

One you made a blanket statement, not a blanket statement about members of this forum.

Two you are using the "statistics" from the poll to represent something entirely different. The number of people who voted yes/no/don't care in the poll in no way backs up your claim that everyone (or even most - engough to make a blanket statement) is a child who goes off every corner, rewinds a lot and throws controllers in frustration.

At least there is a sliver of fact in my statement rather than you who keeps talking about of your organ where the sun never shines.

It's a special skill to face such adversity and still be able to continue on. If you devoted as much time as you do to arguing for rewind to practicing, you'd be the most amazing racer ever... lol