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A reminder to keep on topic please and take other discussion to another thread (not an 'argument thread', a genuine place to debate 👍 ).
LSD Settings: How they really work in GT5?
- Thread starter Motor City Hami
- 206 comments
- 66,708 views
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
What's left to debate? I started this thread and think I have been very clear about how I believe that the LSD has been programmed and how you can tune it to match your controller and driving style. I haven't seen much challenge to the principals that I have laid out. I do see tuners using higher LSD values than me (my tunes tend to use more open settings), but it would appear that even the high side LSD tuners are using similar thoeries (i.e., move setting in one direction, get oversteer, move the other, get understeer). I personally think we have solved the LSD question. Time to summarize this thread and make it a sticky as an update/replacement for Scaffs GT4 LSD guide.
One disclaimer, this thread does not cover drag racing, so someone else will need to determine if drag racing in GT5 requires a diff.
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
The fact that people aren't arguing, can not be considered proof your theory is indisputably correct. It's far more likely, that people have become tired of repeating theories each time a person makes a new thread about LSD. There's no point in repeating the same debate about in game theories. Use what works for you. But you can't sticky a single thread, just because you've declared your theory the end all. The 'Initial Torque' thread had many more theories, data, & explanations that could easily be considered more valuable than this thread, where you've simply isolated your own for whatever reason.
If you want to create a sticky for GT5 LSD, I would recommend compiling all the separate theories, putting them in 1 thread, without any discussion or debate. Just present the theories and lock the thread. People would be free to read through the theories, without the BS in between, then decide for themselves, based on opinion, experience, or trial and error.
Terry_Bull
(Banned)
- 31
personally i found my description of the how the LSD works better than yours ,so i will agree with the above users comments that you cannot declare this thread a sticky
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Your description was for Nascar LSD tuning. I hardly think that covers the majority of the types of racing in this game.
Terry_Bull
(Banned)
- 31
how is the LSD in a NASCAR different to an LSD in any other car? ,i`m pretty sure they all work the same
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
I re-read your post (#50). Is that what you were referencing above. It sounds like you play mostly Nascar in this game, use the x button for trottle and really weren't sure whether you thoery was correct. And you're asking for your comments to be the sticky for LSD?
Terry_Bull
(Banned)
- 31
i`m not asking for any comments in this thread to be a sticky ,i just cant understand how any LSD in this game can be any different to a NASCAR LSD ,regardless of how often or how long you press the x button
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Oval settings can be much higher than road course settings. I think I've described this pretty clearly about three pages ago.
Terry_Bull
(Banned)
- 31
i cant seem to find me listing an actual setting for LSD in this thread but what happens should you go HIGH or LOW that can be used in reference when tuning your LSD ,and just because i mainly play NASCAR doesnt mean i am confined to oval tracks ,i do race a lot of road tracks too ,in which i use the same theories ,which also works on other cars i have tuned
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
Terry_Bull
It's not different fundamentally, it's tuned differently then you would pretty much every other car in the game, the same with quite a few of the techniques used on NASCAR.
The LSD is pretty easy, it's just complicated at the same time.
Explained
Int = how much resistance is allowed before the LSD slips. The higher the setting the more the LSD will fight the resistance generated by the inside wheel in a turn. Open = no fighting the resistance, lock = full fight against resistance. (fully open or fully closed is not possible in the game. Increase to tune out general oversteer, turn down to tune out general understeer. A high setting = car that is hard to turn, a low setting = a easier car to turn.
ONLY when the LSD is slipping do the accel & Deccel come in to play.
When the LSD slips it can send more or less of the power from the slipping wheel (inside) to the wheel with grip (outside) Now when I say slipping wheel I mean the wheel causing the LSD to slip.
Accel is applicable while accelerating and in a corner. The higher the setting the more the LSD will resist sending power to the outside wheel and retain more on the inside wheel, where with a lower setting the LSD will resist less and more power will be transferred to the outside wheel.
Deccel is applicable while braking and in a corner, except with braking force instead of acceleration force. When you hit the brakes the brakes generate resistance, as you turn while breaking the inside wheel has more resistance then the outside (inside wheel has a smaller turn radius) the LSD will slip when the resistance is higher on one side then the other, so depending on the int setting once the LSD starts slipping while braking in a corner increasing or decreasing the setting adjust how much the LSD splits the braking force. Increasing the setting keeps the wheels speed reduction closer to an even level where decreasing the setting allows the inside wheel to reduce speed more while resisting less on the outside wheel. Increasing the setting makes the car harder to turn and more stable while breaking (tight), where lowering the setting makes the car easier to turn while braking (loose).
Simplified
Int will affect both accel and deccel increasing the setting tunes out oversteer, decreasing it tunes out understeer. A lower setting allows for a more free turning vehicle, a higher setting is more stable but the LSD resist turning.
Accel when the LSD is slipping and you hit the gas, increasing the setting sends more power to the inside wheel, and decreasing the setting keeps more of the inside wheels power on the inside. Increase to tune out throttle oversteer, decrease to tune out throttle understeer.
Decel when the LSD is slipping and you hit the brakes increasing the setting will tune out braking instability (loose while braking), making the car harder to turn / change directions while braking, decreasing the setting will tune out resistance to rotating while braking, making the car easier to turn/change directions while braking.
When you break traction (a tire spins) because it's a limited slip diff, both wheels will spin.
Open diff = wheel that grips will send power to wheel that slips. Locked diff = both wheels go the same speed all the time. A limited slip will slip until both wheels break and it will then act like a locked diff and spin both wheels.
When you break loose if you keep accelerating you will keep spinning until your speed begins to match the wheel speed. If you brake you will lock up. So going neutral (or reducing accelerating force, i.e. pull back on the throttle) allows the wheels to get reacquainted with grip, as they do so, the INT setting plays a role. Decreasing the setting will allow traction to be regained more, decreasing understeer. Increasing the setting forces the inside wheel to keep pace with the outside wheel and can delay traction or reduce oversteer.
Hope that's a good explanation
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Terry_Bull
(Banned)
- 31
thankyou ,and thats exactly my point there is no difference in a NASCAR LSD to any other cars LSD ,its how you tune your LSD in relation to the car and track your running
p.s. good overall explanation of how the LSD works
- 703
Very good explanation! With a little mistake on accel... increasing sends more power to the outside wheel, no? Huh now I'm confused again... high setting on accel decrease inside wheelspin and therefore sends less power to the inside or locks the LSD meaning both sides getting the same power? Low settings increase inside wheelspin and therefore sends more power to the inside or opens the LSD that the wheels can rotate independently?
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No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
High accel setting sends less power from the inside to the outside, bringing it closer to diff lock, retaining more power on the inside wheel. Low setting is closer to open diff and sends more power to the outside wheel.
Many people have that mixed up. Everything I've posted is confirmed in the "in game" tuning explanations.
Many people have that mixed up. Everything I've posted is confirmed in the "in game" tuning explanations.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
"Sensitivity When Accelerating
Adjust how the LSD will behave when the accelerator is pressed. The higher this setting, the more traction will be retained, but the closer to diff lock you go, the more pronounced understeer will become. It is also possible to increase the sensitivity on an LSD in order to combat oversteer."
Higher setting = closer to diff lock
Lower setting = closer to open diff
Lock diff both wheels have = power
Open diff = inside wheel < outside wheel (power from inside went to outside) as the outside wheel has a larger radius to travel.
Closer to Open diff = easy to turn
Closer to Lock diff = harder to turn (understeer) or combat oversteer.
Adjust how the LSD will behave when the accelerator is pressed. The higher this setting, the more traction will be retained, but the closer to diff lock you go, the more pronounced understeer will become. It is also possible to increase the sensitivity on an LSD in order to combat oversteer."
Higher setting = closer to diff lock
Lower setting = closer to open diff
Lock diff both wheels have = power
Open diff = inside wheel < outside wheel (power from inside went to outside) as the outside wheel has a larger radius to travel.
Closer to Open diff = easy to turn
Closer to Lock diff = harder to turn (understeer) or combat oversteer.
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No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
If your inside wheel roast too much, it's retaining too much of it's power, and overpowering it's turn radius. Lowering the accel setting will send more power to the outside wheel and it will be harder for the inside wheel to roast.
If the outside wheel is roasting, it's getting too much of the inside wheels power, raising the accel setting will have the inside wheel retain more power, and help with the outside wheel roasting.
Oh yeah, closer to diff lock improves acceleration, while closer to open diff impedes it.
If the outside wheel is roasting, it's getting too much of the inside wheels power, raising the accel setting will have the inside wheel retain more power, and help with the outside wheel roasting.
Oh yeah, closer to diff lock improves acceleration, while closer to open diff impedes it.
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dr_slump
Premium
- 7,425
- Switzerland
- the_dr_slump / GTP_dr_slump
Sorry, but this is completely wrong!
With a low accel, as example 0, the whole power goes to the wheel with the least resistance (inside wheel)= inside wheel spins (whole power), outside wheel get no power.
High accel, as example complete lock, distributes the power to both wheels, the resistance doesn't matter (lock)=outside wheel spins. Why? It's more loaded by the vehicle weight.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Even that statement isn't completely correct slump.
The first part is right, a low accel usually causes more power to go to the inside tire. It is unloaded, has less weight on it and therefore is the path of least resistance.
A high setting will send (almost) equal power to both wheels and force them to spin at the same speed. Even though the outside tire has more grip, it has to run a longer path around the turn than the inside tire. The LSD will not allow the inside tire to spin, so you end up with outside wheelspin as the outside tire tries to keep up with the inside tire that is running a shorter path.
The goal is to minimize, but not completely remove inside wheelspin. Since the outside tire has the most grip, if it breaks lose the oversteer will be far worse than if the inside tire breaks loose.
The first part is right, a low accel usually causes more power to go to the inside tire. It is unloaded, has less weight on it and therefore is the path of least resistance.
A high setting will send (almost) equal power to both wheels and force them to spin at the same speed. Even though the outside tire has more grip, it has to run a longer path around the turn than the inside tire. The LSD will not allow the inside tire to spin, so you end up with outside wheelspin as the outside tire tries to keep up with the inside tire that is running a shorter path.
The goal is to minimize, but not completely remove inside wheelspin. Since the outside tire has the most grip, if it breaks lose the oversteer will be far worse than if the inside tire breaks loose.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
dr_slump
The inside wheel has more resistance than the outside, it is forced into a tighter turn radius while the outside has less resistance on a larger turn radius. That's why we have a diff to begin with, it's the resistance caused by the smaller radius that the diff plays on, this is why my explanation coincides with the in game info. People are confused because they see it one way in the game menu, then come here and people argue it's the opposite.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
When the tire breaks loose (this is NOT LSD slipping, but the tire) the LSD locks (it's a limited slip, key word "limited") both wheels spin. If it were an open diff the gripping tire will send 100% power to the slipping one... However the LSD is there to prevent breaking loose to begin with, not only there to deal with it when it occurs by becoming locked.
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- 703
I slowly get what No_OBssT33R says and he is more right than wrong! The parts about where power goes is when both tyres are on the ground and he doesn't talk about the case that the inside wheel lifts off and then he is right but to prevent that all power goes to the lifted inside wheel, we have to set LSD accel higher, that the diff is more locked and gives power to both wheels.
But in the case that both wheels stay on the road a low accel setting (more open diff) sends more power to the outside because the outside wheel travels more distance, whereas a high accel setting (more locked diff) sends the power more equally to both wheels.
But in the case that both wheels stay on the road a low accel setting (more open diff) sends more power to the outside because the outside wheel travels more distance, whereas a high accel setting (more locked diff) sends the power more equally to both wheels.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
To simulate a differential acting in a corner, It's as simple as taking an LSD dismounted, have a buddy turn the drive shaft part, you will see the axle parts spin in opposite directions. Apply force to one of the axles allowing it to turn but slowly in the opposite direction it was turning, so that the 2 wheels are going the dame direction. The axle at the other side will spin in the same direction but at a faster pace. We have just simulated how a diff works in a corner. Your hand was creating the resistance of the inside line, while the faster outside wheel had no resistance.
The path of least resistance is the outside line, not the inside
I have noticed many people criticize others over how and why they do certain things. I have never criticized anybody for how their car is set up. It's not fair as I am a Mechanic.
The path of least resistance is the outside line, not the inside
I have noticed many people criticize others over how and why they do certain things. I have never criticized anybody for how their car is set up. It's not fair as I am a Mechanic.
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No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
TT3AZ
I think it's mostly due to 2 things. 1 not all cars are equipped with an LSD (could you believe even now they still sell cars with an open diff, not too big a deal on the puny cars), so the greyed out values are more likely value defaults then anything else, second is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the LSD works that is widely promoted on the site.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I dunno man. When you are mid corner, there is more weight on the outside tire. It has potentially more grip to work with than the inside tire and with an open diff, its the inside tire that becomes the path of least resistance.The path of least resistance is the outside line, not the inside
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
It's not about that, it's about the insides wheel tracking a shorter path causing resistance, not the weight shift. That's the big misunderstanding. The weight is managed by the suspension.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
The role weight plays is to the tires grip capacity. It's a power vs weight equation. The suspension handles the weight, the LSD handles the power. Too much weight = slip, too much power = slip. It's about balance.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
I'm not following when you say the suspension handles the weight. I agree with chuyler1 that mid corner, more weight is pressing down on the outside tires than on the inside tires. That's a pretty basic car handling 101 thing, isn't it?
I think you both may be a little bit correct or trying to say the same thing??? Weight loads to the outside wheels while cornering and since the inside wheel now has less weight (grip) and has to travel a shorter distance, it will spin (path of least resistance).
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