Major Earthquake & Tsunami in Japan

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Pfei
Conspiracy theories? Wow, thanks for deleting my thread! Do you know who Mitsuhiko Tanaka is? Are you up to date with the situation at the plant? Have you not realized that official press releases by TEPCO and japan.gov don't add up?
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If you have cared to read any of my posts in this thread, you will see that I am skeptical of the official line and of the assessment that the nuclear situation is quite as rosy as some are making it out to be. You might also have noticed that some other people in this thread have, quite rightly, questioned whether or not discussion of the politics of nuclear power is appropriate for this thread. Personally, I consider discussion of nuclear safety and the implications pertaining to this particular incident to be on-topic, and therefore acceptable... but, more general grievances about nuclear power as a whole, or wildly general comments like "Face it, everyone... the governments of the world have destroyed us, the working people." have no place in this thread.

It is up to me and other moderators of this forum to decide on where to draw the line between on-topic and off-topic discussion. Your post was deleted because it was basically a political rant and I am telling you that we are not going down that route in this thread. The post following yours was about conspiracy theories (granted, it was about how lame they are), but we are not going down that route in this thread either.
 
Touring Mars
It is up to me and other moderators of this forum to decide on where to draw the line between on-topic and off-topic discussion. Your post was deleted because it was basically a political rant and I am telling you that we are not going down that route in this thread. The post following yours was about conspiracy theories (granted, it was about how lame they are), but we are not going down that route in this thread either.
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OK point taken
 
Touring Mars
It is up to me and other moderators of this forum to decide on where to draw the line between on-topic and off-topic discussion. Your post was deleted because it was basically a political rant and I am telling you that we are not going down that route in this thread. The post following yours was about conspiracy theories (granted, it was about how lame they are), but we are not going down that route in this thread either.
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And I would just hazard a guess, before you are accused of censorship, that no one would stop him from creating a separate thread to discuss the politics of nuclear energy, and the implications this event has on it, correct?
 
FoolKiller
And I would just hazard a guess, before you are accused of censorship, that no one would stop him from creating a separate thread to discuss the politics of nuclear energy, and the implications this event has on it, correct?
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We have a thread called The Human Thirst for Knowledge - Blessing or Curse?
This might be a good place to discuss the double-edged nature of nuclear energy and its politics. This thread is currently hiding on page 4 of the index.
 
FoolKiller
And I would just hazard a guess, before you are accused of censorship, that no one would stop him from creating a separate thread to discuss the politics of nuclear energy, and the implications this event has on it, correct?
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Correct 👍
 
Dotini
We have a thread called The Human Thirst for Knowledge - Blessing or Curse?
This might be a good place to discuss the double-edged nature of nuclear energy and its politics. This thread is currently hiding on page 4 of the index.
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That's one of them. There is also some threads where alternative energies have been discussed and nuclear compared.

So yeah, there is clearly places where this discussion can fit in without taking this thread off topic.
 
A new term appears to have been introduced into the discussion - the neutron beam.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/80539.html
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110324a6.html

Brave New Climate has also cited this development, but cannot make much of it until more is known. http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/23/fukushima-10-days-crisis-22-march/#comments < post of 12:06 AM, 25 March
This was discussed earlier on this thread. The levels are very low and may even be very close to the natural background produced by cosmic rays. There are some neutrons produced by the spontaneous fission of Plutonium 240, which if this is the source of the neutrons would indicate some fuel has been emitted from somewhere, reactor or spent fuel. This could be checked if a gamma spectrum was taken, as the alpha particle decay of Pu 240 is 200 million times higher that the spontaneous fission. Gamma rays are emitted during both fission and alpha decay. If they got close enough they could measure the alpha decay directly. This should be easily verified or totally disproven. I would hope they would have investigated this as fuel emission is very serious and would indicate much higher damage than suspected. I doubt this because then there would be much more of the volatile fission products emitted. Until further information this is just a puzzling report, which is already second hand.

Elsewhere, regarding the neutron beam, I found this: http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm
"Oh my. Regarding the neutron "beam," I hope this is just an artifact of trying to translate highly technical terms from Japanese into English.
What I think they probably mean is that the Japanese have been using neutron detectors in the area to find fissile material. These detectors would be similar to detectors we have stationed at large ports or the portable types used by IAEA inspectors and folks from places like Los Alamos. Hopefully what they mean is that they have found trace amounts of nuclear material (defined in this case as isotopes of uranium other than U-238 or the various species of Plutonium) which can decay via spontaneous fission and they are mis-translating this as detecting neutron beams instead of saying "detecting neutrons from nuclear material" or something like that. What this would seem to mean (taking just the link and no context other than what we know from public info) is that this is another confirmation that a significant portion of the fuel has been damaged in the reactors and spent fuel pools that a variety of radioactive material has been flushed out with the steam ventings or has escaped via other pathways (say water flooding out of cracks in containment). Ugly contamination event, but not catastrophe (I've learned to re-define that term over the last week, sadly). To keep this in some context, you can still to this day detect measurable amounts of plutonium in Tokyo from old Chinese A-bomb tests from back in the 60s. We have incredibly sensitive detectors these days so that helps to expand the range in which we can track this stuff (another for instance, we can still detect radioactive cesium in the soil all over North America from US A-bomb tests back in the 50s and 60s - the anti-nukes at Vermont Yankee trotted that out some years ago, claiming the cesium came from the plant).

"Now, if this really is a "beam" of neutrons then this means big trouble. A neutron beam has a specific meaning in my world. This would be a steady stream of neutrons emitted from fission and channeled through something. In this case it might mean that the spent fuel from one of the pools has collapsed into a geometry that can cause fission (not likely at this point because of the amount of boron poured into the pools, but I can't rule it out totally) and is emitting neutrons as water levels fluctuate (water acts as a moderator to help increase the chances of fission), probably through a crack in the wall of a spent fuel pool (my bet would be the pool for Unit 4). I regard this as unlikely due to the distance from the reactor site (neutrons tend to scatter pretty well in air), but I guess it is possible. Hopefully it is just an artifact of translation."
 
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@ Dotinithanks for sharing this good information.

There is no "official" or new report about the condition of reactor's 3 and 4 pool.

Anyway every report on the situation is so contradictory.
- level of rads the injured workers had?
- level of rads that is safe, suddenly we can absorb twice more, its almost our friend now.
- level of rads that is spreading?
- tap water safe now but earlier report said opposite.
- evac zone 20-30km but dont go out?
- real time damage report at the plant are downplayed by officials.

Maybe its off topic to talk about conspiracy but theres a clear cover up in process.
The good news is, like stated before, the power is back.
Now i just hope they know what they doing.
 
OK I have a question that hasn't been addressed even on my "conspiracy theory" websites:

Let's just say that no reactor melts down and TEPCO and japan.gov manages to get the situation under control. We still have exposed fuel rods spewing radiation and the cloud is getting closer and closer to Tokyo.

And now let's assume that my PS3 bricks next year, or I need a new DS3 controller.

Can anyone tell the forum if buying a new PS3 next year could be hazardous to my health? Or buying a new Honda from the plant in Brazil (or anywhere for that matter) could have radioactive components that could hurt myself and my family?

We all know that food grown/harvested/fished in Japan will likely be a problem, but what about cellular phones, PS3s, PCs, cordless phones, GT5s and every other technological trinket known to man? Could these items become hazardous to our health?
 
Pfei
OK I have a question that hasn't been addressed even on my "conspiracy theory" websites:

Let's just say that no reactor melts down and TEPCO and japan.gov manages to get the situation under control. We still have exposed fuel rods spewing radiation and the cloud is getting closer and closer to Tokyo.

And now let's assume that my PS3 bricks next year, or I need a new DS3 controller.

Can anyone tell the forum if buying a new PS3 next year could be hazardous to my health? Or buying a new Honda from the plant in Brazil (or anywhere for that matter) could have radioactive components that could hurt myself and my family?

We all know that food grown/harvested/fished in Japan will likely be a problem, but what about cellular phones, PS3s, PCs, cordless phones, GT5s and every other technological trinket known to man? Could these items become hazardous to our health?
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Really?!?! are you really asking this question in this thread??

where did you read that there are exposed fuel rods spewing a radioactive cloud that's headed for Tokyo? You seriously need to understand exactly what is happening over there before you post trash like this. There are THOUSANDS of people dead and not a single one of them from radiation. The amount of radiation so far released is unlikely to have major health effects ESPECIALLY in Tokyo
 
land sea air
where did you read that there are exposed fuel rods spewing a radioactive cloud that's headed for Tokyo?
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Just about every mainstream media outlet as well as just about every blog on the 'net is reporting on the troubles at Fukushima. And I meant to say exposed SPENT fuel rods. Sorry.

I am not minimizing the plight of the hundreds of thousands of people affected by the 'quake, but if the nuclear situation gets out of hand it could potentially affect untold millions in Japan and other countries. That's why I'm asking.
 
Pfei
We all know that food grown/harvested/fished in Japan will likely be a problem, but what about cellular phones, PS3s, PCs, cordless phones, GT5s and every other technological trinket known to man? Could these items become hazardous to our health?
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It's very unlikely manufactured goods from Japan will become hazardous to our health, for several reasons.

1) It's the southern regions of Japan where most of the manufacturing is done, far away from Fukushima prefecture in the north.
2) Japan would never knowingly permit tainted goods to leave their shores, since they rely on manufacturing sales for their economy, and have a hard-earned reputation for quality to protect.
3) Most ports of entry already have very sensitive and sophisticated radiation detecting equipment in place, ready to pick up any traces from radioactive imported goods.
4) Consumer protection agencies and other safety institutions will be proactively monitoring for radiation hazards in many locations remote from ports of entry.
 
Pfei
Just about every mainstream media outlet as well as just about every blog on the 'net is reporting on the troubles at Fukushima. And I meant to say exposed SPENT fuel rods. Sorry.

I am not minimizing the plight of the hundreds of thousands of people affected by the 'quake, but if the nuclear situation gets out of hand it could potentially affect untold millions in Japan and other countries. That's why I'm asking.
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This is a dangerous situation that could potentially become more-so and there are still many unknowns. However, mis-reporting and exaggerating the facts appears to be a worse than normal problem when it comes to radiation.

Dotini
It's very unlikely manufactured goods from Japan will become hazardous to our health, for several reasons.

1) It's the southern regions of Japan where most of the manufacturing is done, far away from Fukushima prefecture in the north.
2) Japan would never knowingly permit tainted goods to leave their shores, since they rely on manufacturing sales for their economy, and have a hard-earned reputation for quality to protect.
3) Most ports of entry already have very sensitive and sophisticated radiation detecting equipment in place, ready to pick up any traces from radioactive imported goods.
4) Consumer protection agencies and other safety institutions will be proactively monitoring for radiation hazards in many locations remote from ports of entry.
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A very good explanation, I couldn't think of a better way to word it. This isn't soviet era russia we're talking about, there is no reason to believe the japanese government won't be forthcoming with any information they have related to leaks and their effect on health/manufacturing/and agriculture.
 
Pfei
We all know that food grown/harvested/fished in Japan will likely be a problem, but what about cellular phones, PS3s, PCs, cordless phones, GT5s and every other technological trinket known to man? Could these items become hazardous to our health?
Click to expand...
I think I can sum this up pretty quickly if my layman's point of view is accurate. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

If the manufacturing, storage, or shipping facilities for these products contained enough radiation for the residual radiation to be dangerous to you then the area where it became tainted would have unsafe levels of radiation and those facilities would not be functioning, thus the affected products would not make it to us.
 
THX Footkiller
this video awesome. I could post another one at Tokyo bay if no one saw it allready, its from march 12 or 13.
 
Drevenger
THX Footkiller
this video awesome. I could post another one at Tokyo bay if no one saw it allready, its from march 12 or 13.
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I already saw them, but this video is awesome and a little scary, looks like the Earth was breathing&#65279; in that video man.
 
Now the gov is admitting that an actual containment vessel breach is indeed likely.
Breach suspected at troubled Japanese power plant

.....

The possible breach in the plant's Unit 3 might be a crack or a hole in the stainless steel chamber of the reactor core or in the spent fuel pool that's lined with several feet of reinforced concrete. The temperature and pressure inside the core, which holds the fuel rods, remained stable and was far lower than what would further melt the core.

Suspicions of a possible breach were raised when two workers suffered skin burns after wading into water 10,000 times more radioactive than levels normally found in water in or around a reactor, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.

.....
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Its almost certain at this point that theres a breach in reactor 3
The problem with a breach is they grow bigger.
Yet no solution. U.S. and Russia are trying to help but unfortunately there is no end in sight.

i feel so disheartened for them, for me, for everyone and especially for the remaining workers around the plant.
Theres enough spent fuel rods to make Tchernobyl look like a minor event.
 
There's so much conflicting information right now, I feel like we won't actually know what's happening until someone makes a documentary about it in 50 years..
 
Drevenger
Its almost certain at this point that theres a breach in reactor 3
The problem with a breach is they grow bigger.
Yet no solution. U.S. and Russia are trying to help but unfortunately there is no end in sight.

i feel so disheartened for them, for me, for everyone and especially for the remaining workers around the plant.
Theres enough spent fuel rods to make Tchernobyl look like a minor event.
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One would hope the natural repercussions of a disaster like this one are more than enough for a populace to deal with... the immediate and long term impact of this however just heaps misfortune on misery.

Then there's the problem of how to replace the lost electrical generation... and how fast that can reasonably happen. Another punch to the stomach.


alexleighton
There's so much conflicting information right now, I feel like we won't actually know what's happening until someone makes a documentary about it in 50 years..
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I know what you mean, but the local populace doesn't have the luxury. They need to the powers that be to get a handle on it in the next few weeks, as opposed to months or heaven forbid years.
 
land sea air
there is no reason to believe the japanese government won't be forthcoming with any information they have related to leaks and their effect on health/manufacturing/and agriculture.
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Except that the japanese government is known for not being forthcoming and the only seem to be relying on TEPCO for updates about the situation and TEPCO is famous for lying.
 

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