Major Earthquake & Tsunami in Japan

[Dotini]

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/theory-of-corrosion-and-backflow.html

This analysis is being much tweeted and discussed by Brooks and the others at BNC.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

OT-> ...

Need moar stickers VB

^ Hard to do it on my roadster.

-> On my wagon? Sure!!

 

[Dotini]

Tepco now has a novel idea - covering the plant and surrounding grounds with glue in order to trap radioactive particles from fleeing the scene of the crime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/30/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[nk4e]

Apparently, if you buy this shirt. All of money goes to fund for Japan

Our hearts go out to the victims of the recent Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami. 100% of the profits generated from this shirt will be donated directly to charity. This item will only be available until the 1st of April, then it will be sold out forever!
THIS ITEM IS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FOR PRE-ORDER! ORDERS CONTAINING THIS SHIRT WILL SHIP EARLY APRIL!

http://www.brokentier.com/collections/pre-order/products/tiger-japan

 

[Omnis]

Tepco now has a novel idea - covering the plant and surrounding grounds with glue in order to trap radioactive particles from fleeing the scene of the crime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/30/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T2

Bring in the horses. The elephants too.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

They need to bomb the Fukushima plant with cement as some wise guys have said,and i donated 50£ to the RedCross,the situation is calming down in Japan,pretty normal,the only problem is the nuclear plant.

That won't work.

The situation is calming down simply because the public is not being given any real information. Far from normal though. My life is nowhere near normal. Far from it.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

Apparently, if you buy this shirt. All of money goes to fund for Japan

http://www.brokentier.com/collections/pre-order/products/tiger-japan

^ Thanks! But me and the guys already got that covered last Saturday:

^ I'm with the R.P. Stance Crew.

 

[BobK]

Apparently, if you buy this shirt. All of money goes to fund for Japan

http://www.brokentier.com/collections/pre-order/products/tiger-japan

All it says is it goes "to charity", doesn't specify which one. Or who runs said charity.

I'm not saying this isn't completely aboveboard, but there is a lot of wiggle room there.

 

[nk4e]

All it says is it goes "to charity", doesn't specify which one. Or who runs said charity.

I'm not saying this isn't completely aboveboard, but there is a lot of wiggle room there.

On their FB site they said this:

We've put together two shirts, where 100% of all profits will be given to each group. One to the victims of the Tsunami disaster, and one to Team Spooky. More details here! We're still trying to find the best charity to donate to for Japan, please post your suggestions!

http://www.facebook.com/brokentier

 

[BobK]

On their FB site they said this:
http://www.facebook.com/brokentier

Ah, okay. I was going by the first link you posted only.

 

[Dave x1]

That won't work.

The situation is calming down simply because the public is not being given any real information. Far from normal though. My life is nowhere near normal. Far from it.

How far away from the danger zone you live? My friend (japanese) lives in Nagoya and he says its pretty normal there,no panic or smth,life there is just like before the tsunami,i think cause Nagoya its far away from the danger zone,and there also in 11 March only little shakings were heard.

And bombarding the Nuclear plant with sand and cement is the way they stoped Chernobyl,so what can go wrong?

 

[Touring Mars]

And bombarding the Nuclear plant with sand and cement is the way they stoped Chernobyl,so what can go wrong?

An Earthquake? A tsunami? Groundwater/soil pollution? Coastal erosion? Don't forget, it took 700,000 people to do that in Chernobyl... and tens of thousands died prematurely as a result.

It's almost comical that the only viable solutions they've come up with so far for dealing with the radiation leaks involves such sophisticated procedures as 'dumping sea water on the reactors from a helicopter', 'burying the entire plant in sand', and 'hoping that the wind doesn't change direction'. I don't wish to malign the heroic efforts of those who are physically trying to diagnose and fix the problem, but it must not fill local residents with much confidence when this is the level of sophistry being employed...

 

[Speedy Samurai]

How far away from the danger zone you live? My friend (japanese) lives in Nagoya and he says its pretty normal there,no panic or smth,life there is just like before the tsunami,i think cause Nagoya its far away from the danger zone,and there also in 11 March only little shakings were heard.

And bombarding the Nuclear plant with sand and cement is the way they stoped Chernobyl,so what can go wrong?

I live about 200 km from the place and work about 150. I can't buy water or a lot of food stuffs in stores, even 500ml bottles of coca cola are a rare find now, the highway just opened back up after almost two weeks of being shut down causing massive gasoline shortages meaning I had to sleep at my office or at co-workers' places. Rolling blackouts have totally shifted the way companies do business and a monday to friday, 9-5 job is a thing of the past. I work 4 days on, 1 off, and when I get home from work there's no power a lot of the time.

 

[a6m5]

I thought I heard that food supply is being shifted to the disaster affected area, in turn causing shortage in Kanto region.

There was excellent show on PBS last night. It touched on the scientific explanation for the cause of this quake, tsunami, aftermath, etc. They thought the tension that caused the quake in the northeast is now present down the fault line near Kanto region. On the map, it looked like the fault line is closer to the land as it nears Kanto region. Cities like Tokyo & Yokohama(where I'm from) are located there, and is the highest populated area in already super-densely populated Japan. I'm afraid that with a "9" quake there, the quake alone could cause as much casualties as this combo of quake & tsunami has. If not more. Just too many people & building there. The show I think said that it could happen anytime, or not for decades. Sounded similar to the situation we are in, in the Northwest, in the States. History shows that we are getting hit by a big one, we just don't know if it's tomorrow, or 100 years from now.

 

[AlexGTV]

Last figure I read was said there are around 22000 casualties. This was a war of nature upon Japan. Hope the families of the gone will find strength to carry on.

 

[Dotini]

Last figure I read was said there are around 22000 casualties. This was a war of nature upon Japan. Hope the families of the gone will find strength to carry on.

I have no doubt the Japanese people have strength in depth, proven time and again. They will weather the present storm. Ahead of them lies a crucial debate between the forces of reform and the forces of the status quo over their energy future.

 

[G.T.Ace]

It's almost comical that the only viable solutions they've come up with so far for dealing with the radiation leaks involves such sophisticated procedures as 'dumping sea water on the reactors from a helicopter', 'burying the entire plant in sand', and 'hoping that the wind doesn't change direction'. I don't wish to malign the heroic efforts of those who are physically trying to diagnose and fix the problem, but it must not fill local residents with much confidence when this is the level of sophistry being employed...

Well, there's not a lot more you could do (except for building a better plant in the first place). So that's not surprising.

 

[icelt]

Well, there's not a lot more you could do (except for building a better plant in the first place). So that's not surprising.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time wasn't the plant state of the art technology?

 

[nk4e]

Fighting Community's Help towards Japan
You could win a golden plated Arcade stick( from the tournament). Though for donated, two people could win a sign picture from AAA Kayane with another Controller.

The Fighting Genre Community is really extending their hand.

I believe that I read from Time magazine that Japan's youth is really helping out with the relief. Though they are very worried about their future as well.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ Sorry for the off-topic, but I'd date her.

 

[nk4e]

^ Sorry for the off-topic, but I'd date her.

Of all the calamities that have befallen Kouhei Nagatsuka, age 18, in the past month — the March 11 earthquake that devastated his home in Futaba town, the radiation seeping from the quake-and-tsunami-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant next door, the fleeing from shelter to shelter with nothing more than the clothes on his back — it is the smallest of privations that elicits emotion. In March, Nagatsuka graduated from high school in Futaba. But there was no commencement ceremony. Describing his family's plight, Nagatsuka answers questions in a brave monotone, assuming the mantle of the eldest of five siblings, the man in the house now that his father is in the hospital. It is only the lack of a proper graduation in this ritual-based nation that finally makes him crack. "Graduation ceremonies are for sending us out into the world as adults," he says, blinking hard as he waits in line for free clothing at an evacuation center in Saitama prefecture, north of Tokyo. "But for me, I cannot start my future yet. I don't know what I will do."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2061132,00.html#ixzz1ILU68Frl

 

[G.T.Ace]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time wasn't the plant state of the art technology?

No, some people who worked there even said "they knew about the danger, but didn't care". Of course it was upgraded to a modern standard, but the plant itself was build in the late 60's/early 70's and I am pretty sure this is, let me say. "noticable".

 

[a6m5]

No, some people who worked there even said "they knew about the danger, but didn't care". Of course it was upgraded to a modern standard, but the plant itself was build in the late 60's/early 70's and I am pretty sure this is, let me say. "noticable".

I think the point he was making was in "at the time", and that they are resorting to dumping sea water, etc., even though it had all the latest safety features from back when the plant was originally built.

 

[icelt]

I think the point he was making was in "at the time", and that they are resorting to dumping sea water, etc., even though it had all the latest safety features from back when the plant was originally built.

Correct. At the time of construction the Fujiyama Daiichi nuclear power plant was almost assuredly designed with all the state of the art know how. So to look back and state, "well if they just did 'this' or 'that' different then everything would have turned out fine" is a clear case of "hindsight is always 20-20."

So unless you have specific knowledge that somehow the best design and/or construction principles were not followed at the time the plant was built, and later retrofit, then I'd suggest being less flippant in your commentary.

 

[G.T.Ace]

"well if they just did 'this' or 'that' different then everything would have turned out fine"

Wow wow wow, easy now, I never said this, I've read comments from someone who helped constructing the reactors there and he said that they knew about the danger and could've constructed the plant more safely, I don't know how exactly.

I will search the quote.

1431: More from Japanese nuclear engineer Masashi Goto: He say that as the reactor uses mox (mixed oxide) fuel, the melting point is lower than that of conventional fuel. Should a meltdown and an explosion occur, he says, plutonium could be spread over an area up to twice as far as estimated for a conventional nuclear fuel explosion. The next 24 hours are critical, he says.

1426: Mr Goto says his greatest fear is that blasts at number 3 and number 1 reactors may have damaged the steel casing of the containment vessel designed to stop radioactive material escaping into the atmosphere. More to follow.

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x278902

 

[Dotini]

Finally it can be told what the pros knew all along. Previous public releases of information were mainly to calm fears and prevent panic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/science/03meltdown.html

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/75223364/fukushima-areva <--this is the Areva slideshow

 

[a6m5]

1422: Japanese engineer Masashi Goto, who helped design the containment vessel for Fukushima's reactor core, says the design was not enough to withstand earthquakes or tsunamis and the plant's builders, Toshiba, knew this. More on Mr Goto's remarks to follow.

I don't wish to start an debate or anything like that, but this is an classic example of the good old 20/20 hindsight. Mr. Goto admits that he took part in designing the facility, yet, he is now coming out with this very critical information that Fukushima nuclear plant was not designed to withstand earthquakes. Truly an classic example of hindsight is an 20/20.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/EXPORT/projects/fukushima/plots/cur/Main.html
This is for those who like to look at graphs.

If the following story were written by the DailyMail, the headline might be:
Tepco fights nuke explosion with baby diapers!
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...st-solution-fails-to-stop-radiation-leak.html
April 4 (Bloomberg) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co.&#8217;s attempt to clog a cracked pit with a mixture of sawdust, newspaper and plastic failed to stop radioactive water leaking into the sea from its crippled nuclear plant.

The absorbent material, including the same polymer used in baby diapers, was injected into a power-cable storage pit at the plant where radiation-contaminated water is escaping through a crack, the power utility said yesterday.

&#8220;The water-absorbent polymer has never been used before in these cases, so I&#8217;m not sure whether this works well or not,&#8221; said Suh Kune Yull, a professor of nuclear energy system engineering at Seoul National University. &#8220;It may not be easy as the leaking pit is very wide.&#8221;

Radiation in contaminated seawater near the Fukushima Dai- Ichi plant was measured at more than 1,000 millisieverts an hour, Tokyo Electric said last week in a statement. Exposure to that level for an hour would trigger nausea, and four hours might lead to death within two months, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

A Tepco executive said yesterday he isn&#8217;t optimistic about the prospect of containing damage at the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plant&#8217;s No. 3 reactor.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t know if we can ever enter the No. 3 reactor building again,&#8221; Hikaru Kuroda, the company&#8217;s chief of nuclear facility management, said at a press conference.

 

[DK]

^ Actually, they'd use the term "nappies" instead.

 

[Speedy Samurai]

This just in. less than half an hour ago TEPCO started releasing radioactive water into the ocean from a tank they intend to use for highly radioactive water.

so it begins.