It's really hard to determine, but I stand by what I said - there were already few Christmas seasons without a full GT. Thankfully there still is a Prologue, so it's not like Sony is left completely naked. You're overdramatizing, although I agree that MS is in slightly better situation there.
I don't think I am, but it's possible I am over dramatizing. I would say you are over emphasizing any positives and reaching though... I mean when you get down to "thanfully there is still a prolog so we aren't completely naked" as a positive, you gotta admit that's pretty bad...
I already said - for those ones there are another ways to attract. You're mixing the genre-dedicated ones with easily attracted.
And I am saying you are giving dedicated ones too much credit, I would say the vast number of race gaming fans out there don't do anywhere near as much research as we do here, probably just read reviews on ign and pop up a comment every now and then (generalized). And I think you are putting the credit in the wrong persons hands... a lot of shopping is done by the uneducated parents/family and what can be bought for xmas is what is physically available.
Well yes, that would seem so. But don't forget, that the pricecut alone is selling PS3s quite well. No GT during holiday season might mean a bit smaller sales now, but this might translate into better monthly sales later in the long run. We'll just have to wait and see how it'll all play out.
Again that's putting the best spin on something. Yes it's true that if you don't have a huge sale around xmas, those sales might help pad numbers later, but I don't think you can deny that packaging two big hitters together combines their sales potential over splitting them. Basically it's pretty rare that you would sell more later over the long run than hitting the sales season square on.
With things like price drops and new hardware, you want to push it fast while it's still the new hot thing. Despite being the same price, a hot "NOW ONLY 299" PS3 slim seems more enticing than 6 months from now when it's just the normal price for a PS3.
WHAT. FRIGGIN. DELAY. ARE. YOU. TALKING. ABOUT. It's a first time we were given anything even remotely resembling a release date...
I believe Q4 2009 was specifically mentioned, and if you look at the front page news, even Jordan listed reasons we should be surprised at this release date. Besides, I would say "very shortly after GTPSP" as more than remotely resembling a release date amongst other things.
Nope, I don't know the costs related to RROD and piracy, but I know that MS lost over $500 lately:
[LINK]
And I remember people on verge of panicking given Sonys financial numbers earlier this year.
Those numbers are windows live and mobile services... not just the gaming console devision. If you want to start looking into more than gaming console numbers (which are already pretty broad and can have a lot read in from a lot of angles) from both consoles, it exceeds the scope of this discussion and I think becomes way to nebulous to be of value here.
I would like to politely remind you, that it is you who happily replies whenever possible "Reading comprehension > you". The case I was discussing here is the people having both consoles AND interested in this particular niche, that GT and FM fill. Now have that in mind and read my answers again.
While I do like to drop that line, I reserve it for when the obvious meaning is replaced by the reader by a ridiculous jump in logic or extreme analogy beyond reason. In this case I think the concept we are dealing with is so multifaceted that we are bouncing back and forth on different but similar ideas and what you say makes perfect sense as long as you have the same point of view as you...
Markets segmentation (like who owns both consoles and likes racing games, vs only one console but wants racing games, vs wants a console but doesn't like racing games etc) is just goign to get too confusing, that's a whole thesis paper or marketing study in and of itself.
I will just revert to my original position that overall, not being availble alongside your competition can only result in one of two things:
1 the exact same number of the competitions product sold despite your void
2 more of the competitions product sold because of your void
and neither improves your chances of making more sales in a general way. Ask any marketing major or business person and I think the vast majority of the time you will get the same answer - time = money in cases like this.
Sure you can look for the silver lining such as "people will be done with forza and ready to for more" but that really is the lining, the cloud is much bigger.
Well I already touched few types of "undecided", so I don't feel like repeating myself. The real-real undecided are the ones without a console, so it's not really down to GT vs. FM. Those are important, but not the only arguments.
Yes the real real undecided are the ones without consoles, and that's what console moving games are most important for. GT is certainly a console mover and Forza arguably also... in the absence of GT forza strengthens it's ability to move consoles simply by lack of immediate competition. There is no way that this isn't giving up market share. Some of this market share may be recoverable later down the road, but I don't see how in any meaningful way, it could be BETTER than releasing alongside the competition for Sony.
I buy games very rarely (seems I'm the one of those people), but games such as GT or FM aren't the buy/rent-play through-get rid of type. And again - if the owner has TWO consoles, there is a chance that his gaming budget is bigger. Or he is buying wisely, and if he has some interest in racing/driving games - neither GT nor FM aren't waste of money.
You are taking a lot of possibilties and then going with them as if they are the norm or the majority. Realistically they are probably neither. Yes chances are almost anything, but again in the big picture, in general, in a way that can be worth examining without becoming mired in millions of minute possibilites that can't be factored due to the sheer number of factors... at best you are picking out a few outlier situations that aren't a negative for a late release, but again, that's like justifying the cloud because of the silver lining.
If you start talking about the more thrift PS3 owners - not a big problem. Worst case scenario - they buy GT next Christmas. Not really a big deal. Also rethinking their buy five times applies (and that's spoken from the experience, games here in "decommunised land" are really expensive).
Well you have to consider $$ now is always better than $$ later if they are the same number of $$ and while a simplified view of "a sale anytime is the same sale" sounds good, it really isn't. That's why marketing is so important, why companies have whole departments and strategies for marketing.
Again, you are taking a bad situation and showing how it's not as bad as it could be viewed. I am not arguing that, it's not the end of the world or gonig to kill off the GT franchice... but it's still looking at a bad thing in the best possible light, which still comes down to looking at a a bad thing.
Well, it's true at the core. But remember - it's highly probable, that those six months aren't just idling, but are spent on polishing/further developing the game (I don't know if it wasn't you, who said that "so close to release there is no time for new features" - well, now it's not so close, so who knows what is possible, especially with those additional crew members PD just hired). PD might loose the holiday battle, but allies screwed up Market Garden too - that doesn't mean they'll do badly overall. We'll just have to wait and see, the real Waterloo will be when GT5 launches.
It may be the lesser of two evils to delay. If PD has somehow really dropped the ball so much that in 5 years (regardless of other projects, this is their flagship, their meat and potatoes) they have missed a huge Xmas sales season (PS3 slim surely sony let them in on early to make a target and everyone knows xmas is huge sales time both for games and the consoles they move) then it's not necessarily a good thing.
Will the game be better in 6 months than it will today? Almost certainly. But is that a good thing?
Well in a nother post I made an analogy about a chef dropping your steak mid cooking. He may then say "it's gonna be another hour for a replacement steak". Will that replacement be better than your current floor steak? Yes... but if it's not better than a steak should be, is it really a good thing you had to wait?
Like I said, it's very likely the lesser of two evils. If you want to look at it in the best possible light, lesser of two evils is certainly better than the worst of two evils! But in an honest light, it's still an evil.
That's where we differ... you are always looking at it as the lesser of two evils, showing that there is still something salvageable from this ordeal and it's not a catostrophic cluster ****. And I agree! This is not the worst possible thing that could happen, it's not a career ender for PD... and when the dust settles, there will be some shining moments as a result.
But in the big picture... when the dust settles the damage will far outweight the shining points.
I can't think of any franchise comparable to the GT abruptly ending and becoming a flop right now.
The biggest ones I can think of were Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. It's arguable how comparable they are to GT being completely different genre of tames, but they bear a lot in common in terms of dynasty, mass appeal and riding their previous success. If you look at similarities you will see that it's important to remember that just because a series has dominated for a long time, no one is invincible.
Well, there is the same factor that applies to GT - they might try the opposition and find it way better suiting. But you're right, it's more a T10's problem than PD's advantage.
Yes the sword cuts both ways, but remember outside the undecided market, the GT market is what Forza is fighting for and GT has the most to loose (they have the biggest fanbase so the most people who could "defect").
But remember, if Forza is out when GT isn't, that means people who would have otherwise skipped forza and just gotten GT now are given an opportunity AND reason to try forza. The opposite is not true of GT, no one waiting for Forza will now be tempted to pass it up and wait for GT.
That's where your argument fails. The sword cuts both ways, but in this case, only one side can possibly get hit.
No it's called saying what sounds good to make your point at the time.
Yup, but remember that the higher you are, the harder you fall. FM might have it flaws, but they're taken more lightly, often justified as "infancy problems", whereas GT flaws will get nitpicked, and bad (and I'll be one of the nitpickers after the release too). The shortcomings of GT not seen in FM will have twice (or even more) the impact, so if I was in place of PD I'd too take my time, to avoid the "NFS-like crisis" of rushing craptastic games.
Again lesser of two evils. It's not a question for PD of how to get out of this unscathed, it's how to take the least beating in the procsess. And the problem with that predicament is you always come out looking bad becuase when the customer didn't have to experience the WORSE of two evils, they don't realize they got the better, they just realize it was an evil.
Like I said, the strategies are different for both, but the REAL correct strategy for GT wasn't to choose the lesser of two evils now, it was to focus correctly on the obvious goal this whole time. Again, this isn't something they didn't see coming and know they were up against... they have had plenty of time to nail it and the fact they are only 3 months off target makes it even more heinous.
This must be some kind of record for quotes in a thread...
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comes out. It might have sold faster or a bigger chunk at one time being released for christmas but overall, little to no effect. 
(as well as GT1, 2, 3 & 4 in Europe)
