Mark Webber: retires from F1 after '13, joining Porsche LMP1 next year

  • Thread starter Wardez
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It's just a strange deal. You want somebody who can keep Vettel grounded, but at the same time you don't want somebody who will be seen as a threat to his spot as top driver.
I actually think that Vettel himself will probably be the decider in this. I really doubt he would be dumb enough to sign a new contract without putting a provision in that he would have a say in who will be his teammate.
 
Ganon83
It's just a strange deal. You want somebody who can keep Vettel grounded, but at the same time you don't want somebody who will be seen as a threat to his spot as top driver.
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Really? Personally I'd love to see Vettel well and truly humbled; can't stand the spoilt brat. Unlike his idol Schumacher, he didn't help develop Red Bull into a successful team and car; he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Yet he walks around with this vainglorious attitude, and sense of entitlement; so quite frankly, I'd love to see him brought down a few notches.
 
Ganon83
It's just a strange deal. You want somebody who can keep Vettel grounded, but at the same time you don't want somebody who will be seen as a threat to his spot as top driver.
I actually think that Vettel himself will probably be the decider in this. I really doubt he would be dumb enough to sign a new contract without putting a provision in that he would have a say in who will be his teammate.
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During all the talk saying that Alonso had a say in his teammate, Horner (I think, someone from Red Bull, at least) said that Vettel doesn't.
Mr Fusion
Really? Personally I'd love to see Vettel well and truly humbled; can't stand the spoilt brat. Unlike his idol Schumacher, he didn't help develop Red Bull into a successful team and car; he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Yet he walks around with this vainglorious attitude, and sense of entitlement; so quite frankly, I'd love to see him brought down a few notches.
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I think he's looking at it from a Red Bull perspective, not a fan perspective.
 
Centura
I think he's looking at it from a Red Bull perspective, not a fan perspective.
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I'd like to make clear in advance, that the following is aimed directly at myself...

homer-facepalm-icon_reasonably_small.jpg


:lol:
 
Yeah, I'm looking at it from a Red Bull perspective.
Like I said, save for a Schumacher return for the 2nd time (which really nobody wants), Kimi would probably be the only driver who can knock Vettel down a peg or two based off of pure respect. But Kimi would expect to and compete to be the lead driver, which wouldn't be good because Vettel is Red Bull's boy for the long haul.
And of course, no offense to Riccardo, but Kimi is a former champion. He's easily the best pure driver for the job.
 
Ganon83
It's just a strange deal. You want somebody who can keep Vettel grounded, but at the same time you don't want somebody who will be seen as a threat to his spot as top driver.
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Like I said earlier, they will want someone who can win World Constructors' Championships by supplementing the points Vettel scores with as many extra points as they can get, but not so many that they threaten Vettel in the World Drivers' Championship. And if they play ball, then maybe they can have the odd win gifted to them once Vettel wraps up a title.
 
prisonermonkeys
Like I said earlier, they will want someone who can win World Constructors' Championships by supplementing the points Vettel scores with as many extra points as they can get, but not so many that they threaten Vettel in the World Drivers' Championship. And if they play ball, then maybe they can have the odd win gifted to them once Vettel wraps up a title.
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If that's all they wanted, there'd be no need for them to even talk to or about Raikkonen.
 
Please, dropping Raikkonen's name immediately grabs public attention. Even if the plan all along has been to take one of the Toro Rosso drivers, it still gets them a massive upswing in publicity if they suggest Raikkonen is in contention, publicity that they wouldn't normally get if they just discreetly dropped Webber for Ricciardo or Vergne.

You can bet that the opposite side of the coin is that Lotus will fight tooth and nail to keep Raikkonen. Their future likely depends on it. When Williams were courting him, it was believed that his presence in the team would have landed them a major sponsorship deal from the Bank of Qatar. It didn't happen, and so the money never came through and they had to look elsewhere. The same applies here: Genii have recently sold off a 35% stake in the team to a group of investors called "Infinity Racing". You can bet that they wouldn't have done that if they weren't confident Raikkonen would be staying. Because what's the alternative - Romain Grosjean and Paul di Resta? Di Resta and Pastor Maldonado? Maldonado and Grosjean? None of those combinations are particularly appealing. Raikkonen has that star power that keeps the team afloat. So long as he is at the team, they are more likely to get more investment that weill keep them at or near the front for longer. The only way they will let him go is if he decides to retire completely, or they can secure another super-talent to replace him.

Inter- and intra-team politics both play a major part in the driver transfer market. Too many Raikkonen fans have dumbed the situation to "Raikkonen is available, so Red Bull must be interested" and assumed it will happen simply because there is an empty seat on one side and a driver out of contract on the other.
 
I don't particularly disagree with anything PM says about Kimi's importance to Lotus but the Raikkonen-to-RBR talk has more than mesage-board fanboyism to it. Actual professionals (cf Autosport) say it's a real possibility and the man himself has pretty much admitted same. These sorts of rumors of late (cf Hamilton) have been surfacing a month or two before the reality, which suggests they reflect the fact of talks taking place.

Lotus isnt exactly in the best bargaining position, by the way. Uncertain finances, turnover amongst key technical staff, it's enough to make a top driver wonder.
 
I wouldn't be shocked if RB made a bid for Raikkonen in an attempt to equal the McLaren of the mid 80's-early 90's where they won 7/8 titles from '84-'91 and had a rather epic driver rivalry as well.
 
I think there are a few reasons as to why RBR shouldn't take Kimi, one it undermines their STR drivers and any other future F1 drivers that will clearly go to STR before RBR. Also Kimi doesn't need to move from Lotus to win a WDC, even with the mistakes made by them RBR could and have done similar things. Most of all I think, is that people feel that who ever replaces Webber it wont be a massive name. We've heard for years people would take over for Massa and threw around big names along with other teams. So when a group of people say this big name is going to join with this one, there is usually much doubt. I mean realistically dream teams seldom happen.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I think there are a few reasons as to why RBR shouldn't take Kimi, one it undermines their STR drivers and any other future F1 drivers that will clearly go to STR before RBR. Also Kimi doesn't need to move from Lotus to win a WDC, even with the mistakes made by them RBR could and have done similar things. Most of all I think, is that people feel that who ever replaces Webber it wont be a massive name...
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Exactly. However, could another factor in choosing another driver be which one can get along with Vettel? I ask because the Vettel-Webber partnership wasn't the smoothest of friendships (e.g. Malaysia 2013 exactly)
 
Inferno251
Exactly. However, could another factor in choosing another driver be which one can get along with Vettel? I ask because the Vettel-Webber partnership wasn't the smoothest of friendships (e.g. Malaysia 2013 exactly)
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What does it matter as long as there are championships, look at teams that have had their golden driver then the unloved "step child", Prost for example who should have been given more love by Ron Dennis, but Ron liked Senna's sheer raw speed which he showed at every team. Then you have Alonso...who shares a similar situation to Prost due to Ron Dennis yet again. You have Webber too and even if Kimi drove for RBR, Vettel would probably get the preference due to the fact that he is a "prodigy" from their young drivers program. So basically finding someones that is friendly with Vettel may be hard, his ego will always be there and RBR will remind that second driver who is the bread winner of the team.

I guess in the end they need a driver that is fast to help keep winning WCC, though if Vettel did another 2011 they wouldn't need a second driver to win both titles. Either way they need a solid second to help them win the WCC after Webber leaves, but have a decent working relation with Vettel. They don't need to give him a friend just someone that isn't at his throat..
 
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109079

I know I haven't been following F1 for a while, but this caught my eye. I say it's gamesmanship on the part of the involved parties. Unless things have changed drastically since the last time I followed F1, Alonso isn't going to want to be leaving Ferrari, and neither Vettel nor Alonso are likely to want a team mate next year who can threaten their status.

I think it's great that Webber's moving to the WEC. He was always my favourite out of the current bunch of F1 drivers, and I personally find sports car racing far more exciting than single seaters.
 
braunracing88
In recent Mark Webber news, he recently made a comparison between the quality of the F1 grid when he made his debut and the present grid, which according to him, is going downhill.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109185
And Favio Briatore has said that Webber should've stayed in F1 on the grounds that he is still competitive and would've been guaranteed a seat for next season.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109137
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There may be more pay drivers but when you compare the grids their isn't that much of a difference and bear in mind some of those drivers were seen as pretty average until later in their career, we might look back in 10 years time with Bottas, Pic and Bianchi world champions and think "Wow the grid was so strong back then".
 
It's difficult to compare because during that time Schumacher made everyone look completely average, there were several fast drivers who got even slower when Schumacher retired! I'd say it's better overall, but more varied now. We have six world class drivers fighting it out at the front. There are a few that need to reevaluate there position here, such as Maldonado, Grosjean and Chilton for example, but other than that it's pretty good.

But yes, it does sadden me that money concerns are getting in the way of not only the drivers, but the cars too.
 
PeterJB
It's difficult to compare because during that time Schumacher made everyone look completely average, there were several fast drivers who got even slower when Schumacher retired! I'd say it's better overall, but more varied now. We have six world class drivers fighting it out at the front. There are a few that need to reevaluate there position here, such as Maldonado, Grosjean and Chilton for example, but other than that it's pretty good.

But yes, it does sadden me that money concerns are getting in the way of not only the drivers, but the cars too.
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It's actually five former World Champions now. It was six last year when Schumacher was still on the grid.
 
I said world class, not world champions. Maybe the ones who aren't former champions will be one day.
 
PeterJB
It's difficult to compare because during that time Schumacher made everyone look completely average, there were several fast drivers who got even slower when Schumacher retired! I'd say it's better overall, but more varied now. We have six world class drivers fighting it out at the front. There are a few that need to reevaluate there position here, such as Maldonado, Grosjean and Chilton for example, but other than that it's pretty good.

But yes, it does sadden me that money concerns are getting in the way of not only the drivers, but the cars too.
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I agree.

These days most of the top drivers pull off some amazing drives but have their days when they look average. Then you get the midfield drivers showing some good skills with great overtakes and some solid drives.
Schumacher wiped the floor with pretty much everything between 2001-2004. It took regulation changes to stop that.

With regards to pay drivers, I fear it's heading that way permanently, especially with the lower teams that are struggling with money.
 
I hope Porsche installs an ejection seat for Mark, he is flight certified you know.


1999 Mercedes-AMG CLR, Toyota GT-One, Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 by Metalsun1, on Flickr​

This is probably one of the most amazing crashes in racing history and it didn’t have to happen because there were many warnings. You see, at the Thursday qualifying session before the 1999 24 Hours of Le Mans, current F1 driver for Red Bull-Renault, Mark Webber, flipped his #4 Mercedes-AMG CLR. The car was repaired and poor Mark was sent out again only to flip ( http://www.mulsannescorner.com/benzCLR1.html ) spectacularly on Saturday practice before the race at the hump before the Mulsanne corner. This time the car was totaled. The CLR’s aerodynamic development was not fully completed and to make things worse, the rear wing was lowered to increase their top speed. So after the crash, the CLR’s were given front winglets and sent off to complete their infamous destiny. Just before nightfall, the #5 CLR driven by Peter Dumbreck flipped fantastically 3 times and crashed in the woods just before the Indianapolis corner.
 
RACECAR
Am I missing something here?
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LMSCorvetteGT2
I know I am missing something...since a Mercedes and BMW (Petit Le Mans) did the same thing I don't see the point
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Back in 1955, M-B crashed at Le Mans with devastating results, the factory stopped racing there until 1998 where they flipped and crashed again in 1999, never to return. Porsche flipped their GT1 in 1998 at Road Atlanta, later tried to fix it but stopped racing in the top-tier, LMP1, category…until next year. I am just joking that Mark Webber and Porsche have some flight experience and that, just in case life repeats itself, Porsche should prepare an ejection seat.
 
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It won't happen again, purely because of much downforce these cars create at the front nowadays. Really, it's ridiculous how fast the R18 and TS030 corner. Besides, ejecting yourself out of the car when the car is upside down?
 
Metalsun



​
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Now that I see this image again, and sorry for going off-topic on this, but isn't the sponsoring and entry # incorrect on that TS020?

I thought the #2 TS020 driven by Mcnish had the "Venture Safenet" sponsoring on the front, while the #3 driven by Katayama had the "ESSO Ultron" sponsoring on the front.

I could be wrong though.
 
Today, I actually saw a difference in Vettel and Webber's relationship. I kinda feel that after all the competition of F1, Mark will see Seb as more of a friend

And the whole Red Bull team gave him a fantastic send-off- P2!
 

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