Mass shooting in San Bernadino, California

[ECGadget]

Islamic fundamentalist - this is how they are required to operate and think.

They are following teachings of mohamed that instructs his followers to lie and deceive the infidels in order to gain their trust, then strike.

My good friend, we have been through this before some years ago. I know what your thoughts are about Islam, but I know the actual facts about Islam. We're going to probably go around in circles with this again, but let me make it 100% clear that these people are far from following the teachings of Muhammad and sadly in this one particular topic you are very very wrong.
BUT you're right that whatever their reasoning they think and operate in a certain way. My question really is what makes them like that? What is it that groups like the Daesh or the KKK or the IRA or the Nazis have that could possibly appeal to these people? And forget a mass spontaneous killing, how can they plan to kill people and have that thought in their minds for that long? That is what disturbs me.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Islamic fundamentalist - this is how they are required to operate and think.

They are following teachings of mohamed that instructs his followers to lie and deceive the infidels in order to gain their trust, then strike.

The modus operandi in this case is different from the tactics they employ in Europe though (at least so far). In Europe they mostly use low-educated, young, single males from low-class suburbs/ghettos of major European cities.

My question really is what makes them like that? What is it that groups like the Daesh or the KKK or the IRA or the Nazis have that could possibly appeal to these people? And forget a mass spontaneous killing, how can they plan to kill people and have that thought in their minds for that long? That is what disturbs me.

Those are good questions, I can understand IS appealing to the profile I mention above, and I also understand brainwashing, which usually requires some form of isolation, but this is not the case here as far as we can tell.

 

[RC45]

My good friend, we have been through this before some years ago. I know what your thoughts are about Islam, but I know the actual facts about Islam. We're going to probably go around in circles with this again, but let me make it 100% clear that these people are far from following the teachings of Muhammad and sadly in this one particular topic you are very very wrong.
BUT you're right that whatever their reasoning they think and operate in a certain way. My question really is what makes them like that? What is it that groups like the Daesh or the KKK or the IRA or the Nazis have that could possibly appeal to these people? And forget a mass spontaneous killing, how can they plan to kill people and have that thought in their minds for that long? That is what disturbs me.

Well, my friend, don't presume to think that I do not know the actual facts about islam.

Please go ahead and deny taqiyya is not expected behaviour from the devout muslims in times of jihad.

It is not sad and I am not wrong.

 

[RC45]

The modus operandi in this case is different from the tactics they employ in Europe though (at least so far). In Europe they mostly use low-educated, young, single males from low-class suburbs/ghettos of major European cities.

This couple is the typical cell profile outside of Europe - well educated, apparently law abiding and blended into local society.

 

[Blitz24]

Islamic fundamentalist - this is how they are required to operate and think.

They are translating teachings of mohamed in a way that instructs his followers to lie and deceive the infidels in order to gain their trust, then strike.

FTFY.

Not all Muslims are like the fundamentalists.

 

[Johnnypenso]

My good friend, we have been through this before some years ago. I know what your thoughts are about Islam, but I know the actual facts about Islam. We're going to probably go around in circles with this again, but let me make it 100% clear that these people are far from following the teachings of Muhammad and sadly in this one particular topic you are very very wrong.
BUT you're right that whatever their reasoning they think and operate in a certain way. My question really is what makes them like that? What is it that groups like the Daesh or the KKK or the IRA or the Nazis have that could possibly appeal to these people? And forget a mass spontaneous killing, how can they plan to kill people and have that thought in their minds for that long? That is what disturbs me.

How does one separate the root causes for a single person going over the edge when thousands upon thousands or millions of others have walked in the same shoes and not committed similar acts of violence? Farook was American born and raised, living in suburbia, in the liberal haven of California, had a decent government job etc. To me the wife is the wild card here, and it's possible he came under her spell and she led his way to radicalization. It wouldn't be the first time that a man, or a woman for that matter, came under the spell of a spouse or mate and went on a violent rampage.

I don't think the killing was spontaneous in the larger sense, it seems they were preparing for something else and then something set them off and they jumped prematurely into this. They had pipe bombs by the dozen it seems, remote control cars rigged up with explosives, thousands of rounds of ammunition etc. They were planning for something that is for sure IMO.

 

[Tornado]

Well, my friend, don't presume to think that I do not know the actual facts about islam.

Would those be the "alley ackbar mooslin kooran krazy" facts?

 

[RC45]

FTFY.

Not all Muslims are like the fundamentalists.

I don't believe I said they where.

 

[RC45]

Would those be the "alley ackbar mooslin kooran krazy" facts?

Having studied in depth the kooran, mooslims moohamad and the like in the late 1980's for specific intelligence purposes, unless you are an actual practicing mooslim, I have probably forgotten more about this political cult than you will ever know.

 

[ECGadget]

Well, my friend, don't presume to think that I do not know the actual facts about islam.

Please go ahead and deny taqiyya is not expected behaviour from the devout muslims in times of jihad.

It is not sad and I am not wrong.

With all due respect, your very phrase states the contrary.

@Johnnypenso Actually, that isn't a bad point about the wife, but it took two to commit the crime. Also, I didn't mean this attack was spontaneous, I was comparing this (which seemed more planned like you said in a larger sense) with the more spontaneous ones such as the one in Colorado Springs (if I remember right) not so long ago. I was trying to make a point that how can any decent human being harbour such evil in their minds and hearts for so long. And, like you said, he had it all it seems.


Thinking about it, I drew the conclusion that these people are lustful for power. Not just this mass killing or the recent ones but throughout history it just seems people hungry for more and more power.

 

[RC45]

With all due respect, your very phrase states the contrary.

@Johnnypenso Actually, that isn't a bad point about the wife, but it took two to commit the crime. Also, I didn't mean this attack was spontaneous, I was comparing this (which seemed more planned like you said in a larger sense) with the more spontaneous ones such as the one in Colorado Springs (if I remember right) not so long ago. I was trying to make a point that how can any decent human being harbour such evil in their minds and hearts for so long. And, like you said, he had it all it seems.


Thinking about it, I drew the conclusion that these people are lustful for power. Not just this mass killing or the recent ones but throughout history it just seems people hungry for more and more power.

Ok - doctrine of taqiyya - satisfied now?

 

[Tornado]

I don't think the killing was spontaneous in the larger sense, it seems they were preparing for something else and then something set them off and they jumped prematurely into this. They had pipe bombs by the dozen it seems, remote control cars rigged up with explosives, thousands of rounds of ammunition etc. They were planning for something that is for sure IMO.

I dunno if I agree with that. There was planning on place for sure, but it doesn't look like they brought any of it to bear for this attack. I think it might have been more of like a DC Beltway Sniper thing, and they were planning on doing multiple attacks over a period of time.

Having studied in depth the kooran, mooslims moohamad and the like in the late 1980's for specific intelligence purposes, unless you are an actual practicing mooslim, I have probably forgotten more about this political cult than you will ever know.

I have a hard time believing you would be trusted with intelligence any more detailed than how to assemble a hamburger at McDonald's, so forgive me for not being impressed with you boasting about credentials on an internet forum in lieu of an actual argument.

 

[RC45]

I have a hard time believing you would be trusted with intelligence any more detailed than how to assemble a hamburger at McDonald's, so forgive me for not being impressed with you boasting about credentials on an internet forum in lieu of an actual argument.

There is no argument - islam is a political cult.

And I had lived an entire life before I immigrated to the USA in the 1990's - I understand how it is hard for you to fathom there is a world outside of the interwebs and the USA, but there is and some of us have lived it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I dunno if I agree with that. There was planning on place for sure, but it doesn't look like they brought any of it to bear for this attack. I think it might have been more of like a DC Beltway Sniper thing, and they were planning on doing multiple attacks over a period of time.

That's what I was trying to say I just worded it poorly. I think they were planning an attack generally, but I think this specific incident arose nearly spontaneously, or at least the timing of it was spontaneous.

 

[ECGadget]

There is no argument - islam is a political cult.

And I had lived an entire life before I immigrated to the USA in the 1990's - I understand how it is hard for you to fathom there is a world outside of the interwebs and the USA, but there is and some of us have lived it.

My friend, I am a Muslim and I assure you with all my heart that people like ISIS are not following Islam. Nor is Islam a political cult. HOWEVER, ISIS are saying that what they do is Islamic, AND they are a political, murderous, [insert whichever horrible words you wish] cult who need to be stopped.

I may not be the best Muslim, or the best human being, but in many ways they are one and the same. So, if I work towards one, I automatically work towards the other. That's what a Muslim is, a good human being. And I understand if you do not believe a word I say or merely class it as 'taqiyyah' (which by the way actually means one can deny faith under extreme circumstances, not lie about anything and everything), but this is be being a Muslim as best as I can. And if that means taking the brunt of a misguided argument or hate for things that groups like ISIS do, I will take it and respond as a good human should. Calmly, rationally and truthfully.
And when it comes to people being killed by such people, I will feel for them just as much as any one of us here, because at the end of the day regardless of colour, religion, nationality, sex or education, they are human beings who have been killed in cold blood at the hands of another human being. And should be thought of, whether for a second or a minute or a hour for us, or for the rest of their lives for those close to them.


Edit: As @Danoff quite rightly said, this does not belong in this thread at all and detracts from its original purpose.

 

[Danoff]

Well, my friend, don't presume to think that I do not know the actual facts about islam.

Please go ahead and deny taqiyya is not expected behaviour from the devout muslims in times of jihad.

It is not sad and I am not wrong.

My friend, I am a Muslim and I assure you with all my heart that people like ISIS are not following Islam. Nor is Islam a political cult. HOWEVER, ISIS are saying that what they do is Islamic, AND they are a political, murderous, [insert whichever horrible words you wish] cult who need to be stopped.

I may not be the best Muslim, or the best human being, but in many ways they are one and the same. So, if I work towards one, I automatically work towards the other. That's what a Muslim is, a good human being. And I understand if you do not believe a word I say or merely class it as 'taqiyyah' (which by the way actually means one can deny faith under extreme circumstances, not lie about anything and everything), but this is be being a Muslim as best as I can. And if that means taking the brunt of a misguided argument or hate for things that groups like ISIS do, I will take it and respond as a good human should. Calmly, rationally and truthfully.
And when it comes to people being killed by such people, I will feel for them just as much as any one of us here, because at the end of the day regardless of colour, religion, nationality, sex or education, they are human beings who have been killed in cold blood at the hands of another human being. And should be thought of, whether for a second or a minute or a hour for us, or for the rest of their lives for those close to them.

Dearest friends,

Please take this discussion to a religion thread.

 

[Tornado]

That's what I was trying to say I just worded it poorly. I think they were planning an attack generally, but I think this specific incident arose nearly spontaneously, or at least the timing of it was spontaneous.

Even that I dunno. They were in and out fast and hit a place with high traffic access. They chose a vehicle incredibly common in the area to make their escape. They got caught pretty quickly anyway, but I don't know if that can be considered proof that this attack wasn't deliberately planned. It's just speculation on my part of course.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Even that I dunno. They were in and out fast and hit a place with high traffic access. They chose a vehicle incredibly common in the area to make their escape. They got caught pretty quickly anyway, but I don't know if that can be considered proof that this attack wasn't deliberately planned. It's just speculation on my part of course.

Information is now coming out that they went to great lengths to delete their digital footprint, destroy their hard drives and phones etc. So it seems as if they were preparing for an imminent attack and possible escape.

 

[Dotini]

National Public Radio is reporting that the women suspect had made a loyalty pledge to ISIS on Facebook shortly before the assault. But not in her own name.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Incredible. The landlord busted off the door seal and allowed the reporters into the suspect's home. Is it possible they could be finished with the home in such a short time span? Expert commentators are freaking out over it.

 

[RC45]

Incredible. The landlord busted off the door seal and allowed the reporters into the suspect's home. Is it possible they could be finished with the home in such a short time span? Expert commentators are freaking out over it.

This will provide the obama regime plausible deniability - "We never where able to establish motive or determine if they where terrorists. It was work place violence. Nothing to see here - Move along".

There is an agenda to serve here, and it is to ban guns. All actions must work towards that goal. That is the legacy obama has stated he wants.

 

[Sanji Himura]

There is an agenda to serve here, and it is to ban guns. All actions must work towards that goal. That is the legacy obama has stated he wants.

Agreed. Then either Hillary's or Bernie's legacy is to destroy free speech (by overturning Citizens United), but that is a discussion better served for the politics thread.

 

[Pupik]

Incredible. The landlord busted off the door seal and allowed the reporters into the suspect's home. Is it possible they could be finished with the home in such a short time span? Expert commentators are freaking out over it.

This will provide the obama regime plausible deniability - "We never where able to establish motive or determine if they where terrorists. It was work place violence. Nothing to see here - Move along".

There is an agenda to serve here, and it is to ban guns. All actions must work towards that goal. That is the legacy obama has stated he wants.

Maybe they should have consulted the dead tenants first.

 

[Blitz24]

Agreed. Then either Hillary's or Bernie's legacy is to destroy free speech (by overturning Citizens United), but that is a discussion better served for the politics thread.

As you said, best for other thread but free speech is already limited.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Maybe they should have consulted the dead tenants first.

More like the FBI. I can't see how this very important crime scene was cleared in less than 2 days. All very bizarre. A group of unidentified men came and kicked everyone out, sealed the door back up and the landlord was led away in an unmarked law enforcement vehicle.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yes, to score cheap political points around a tragic situation. You don't think that 4 Republican presidential candidates being on the cover was a coincidence do you?

No, I don't think that it was a coincidence. I think that over a dozen people were murdered and the political response was underwhelming. But I don't know why I'm surprised - if you didn't achieve any reasonable change following the Sandy Hook massacre, why should anybody think that you ever will?

 

[RC45]

No, I don't think that it was a coincidence. I think that over a dozen people were murdered and the political response was underwhelming. But I don't know why I'm surprised - if you didn't achieve any reasonable change following the Sandy Hook massacre, why should anybody think that you ever will?

Why does there need to be any "change"? What needs to change? And how would this change have altered this or any future outcome?

France, with few guns and many restrictive laws experienced the same type of attack we did - in fact the French attack was worse. So how are our gun freedoms to blame if a strictly regulated country was also subject to a similar terrorist attack?

Why should outlier events impact the rights of the entire population?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Why does there need to be any "change"?

Dead children.

What needs to change?

Less dead children.

And how would this change have altered this or any future outcome?

There would be no dead children.

Why should outlier events impact the rights of the entire population?

Because it's not an outlier event anymore. It happens pretty regularly, and you're apparently numb to it. You just accept that it's part of life when every else sees it as utter madness that you are allowing to happen.

The image America likes to put forward is the land of the brave, and the home of the free. The most oft-quoted expression is "I don't have to like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", but I have to ask, is that even true? You have the power to live up to that sentiment: by consciously giving up - maybe not through executive or legislative power, but certainly through personal choice - one of your rights to defend the rights of others.

You have what is fundamentally a social, cultural problem, and you have done nothing to change it. "I don't have to like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" has metastisised to "so long as I can say that I am exercising my rights, nothing I do is erong".

 

[Com Fox]

Why does there need to be any "change"? What needs to change? And how would this change have altered this or any future outcome?

France, with few guns and many restrictive laws experienced the same type of attack we did - in fact the French attack was worse. So how are our gun freedoms to blame if a strictly regulated country was also subject to a similar terrorist attack?

Why should outlier events impact the rights of the entire population?

It isn't about how bad the attack was but how often it happens. Mass shootings can be seen as an Everyday thing in America while in France, it is like twice in a year.

Remember that Australia hasn't had a Mass Shooting ever since the Tasmanian Mass Shooting and that event is what caused the government introduce the very strict gun laws in Australia.

The more you ignore the situation and "protect" your guns, the more innocent people are going to get shamefully murdered.

 

[Carbonox]

Dead children.


Less dead children.


There would be no dead children.

Multiple adults died in said shooting as well, or are they irrelevant?