Mel got a Subaru!

[Doog]

So, my dad has changed his ideas again. Though I like the Legacy, apparently, because it's not a new-millenium car, he wants me to get something more reliable than the old crap; 2005 Impreza RS wagon. I like the taillights!

You should refrain from getting your hopes up (or crushed) whenever your dad changes his mind. Perhaps you should hold off on this and ask him again in the future when he's cleared his mind some.

 

[Azuremen]

So, why, then, have I driven the Lexus, without problem? I already have driven 200 hp cars. Thing is, though, 200 hp = high insurance premiums. I need a car to get me through college (to be mechanic.) After that, I can tear into the college car, and make a rally car.

Driving a car without problem and dailying a car without problem are very, very different things.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Driving a car without problem and dailying a car without problem are very, very different things.

I don't doubt it, but, I can drive well, regardless of horsepower. The speed limits in Canada are so low... It wouldn't matter.

 

[niky]

Subaru Impreza RS? Manual tranny with the naturally aspirated 2.5? Would make a great road/track car. Not as good as a Protege*, but still...

Of course, the track part you save till after college, because that part can get expensive right quick.

*Of course I'm biased.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Subaru Impreza RS? Manual tranny with the naturally aspirated 2.5? Would make a great road/track car. Not as good as a Protege*, but still...

Of course, the track part you save till after college, because that part can get expensive right quick.

*Of course I'm biased.

That's the plan. But, no, no front-wheel-drive rallying on snow. Nah.

 

[aadil717]

That's the plan. But, no, no front-wheel-drive rallying on snow. Nah.

The Lexus has that all important "POWER" and "SNOW" button for when you want to drive fast, or go on the snow - both of which probably make no difference to the car at all.
Still, always good to use your imagination and pretend they do something. 👍

 

[Bram Turismo]

Living in a country with a lot of snow each year, I can tell you that 4WD is a trickier drive train to be driving in the snow with than one might think... I put the car in front-wheel drive unless I really need the 4WD system to get through a thick layer of snow. Only then do I use 4WD.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

The Lexus has that all important "POWER" and "SNOW" button for when you want to drive fast, or go on the snow - both of which probably make no difference to the car at all.
Still, always good to use your imagination and pretend they do something. 👍

Creativity is beneficial.

Living in a country with a lot of snow each year, I can tell you that 4WD is a trickier drive train to be driving in the snow with than one might think... I put the car in front-wheel drive unless I really need the 4WD system to get through a thick layer of snow. Only then do I use 4WD.

I'll find out, I now own a 2005 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS. So far, my overall impressions are as follow:


-grip
-grip
-grip
-grip


This was found on gravel, sand, dirt, grass, and pavement. I got a good 200 kilometers of driving just today.

 

[niky]

Nose heavy car like that will give the impression. But since it's also ass-heavy compared to most FWDs, that rear end will pull hard when it finally breaks, so be wary.

Too bad we never got that variant here. All we get are 2.0s or the Rex siblings. And while the 2.0 has an enjoyable lightness that's missing from the 2.5 liter cars, it's about 25-50 horses short of being lively.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Nose heavy car like that will give the impression. But since it's also ass-heavy compared to most FWDs, that rear end will pull hard when it finally breaks, so be wary.

This.

I think everyone that starts driving an AWD car in snow or ice conditions, should just briefly look up an AWD's behaviour in case of it breaking out. Just so you know what kind of behaviour you can expect as opposed to an FWD car, and how to counter that behaviour.

 

[niky]

Best to find a dirt lot with significant space and run off and test it a few times to understand the behavior of the car.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

This.

I think everyone that starts driving an AWD car in snow or ice conditions, should just briefly look up an AWD's behaviour in case of it breaking out. Just so you know what kind of behaviour you can expect as opposed to an FWD car, and how to counter that behaviour.

Exactly. However, for anyone who's ever downshifted an FF, mid-corner, and "chirped" the tires, and unbalanced the car, it should be easy to learn to control this.

Wet road, highway on-ramp. I was in a Hyundai Accent (manual, of course,) going around the on-ramp, but, (being a Hyundai) it didn't have enough power to accelerate back up to the speed limit, post-apex. So, I went to downshift... But, the downshift wasn't great (my fault, I guess...?) and weighted the front tires. The back end swung around. I controlled the spin, and managed to turn it into a full 180 degree spin, while keeping the clutch in (to avoid going backwards in third gear) and avoiding all of the obstacles. Then, four-way blinkers, let traffic past, wait for someone to stop, and three-point-turn my way out... Done. No damage, just a good experience, that I should've had sooner.


This is why Canada needs Finnish/Scandinavian type driving schools. I admit, Bram, your country does it better. 👍

Nose heavy car like that will give the impression. But since it's also ass-heavy compared to most FWDs, that rear end will pull hard when it finally breaks, so be wary.

Too bad we never got that variant here. All we get are 2.0s or the Rex siblings. And while the 2.0 has an enjoyable lightness that's missing from the 2.5 liter cars, it's about 25-50 horses short of being lively.

Fully agree. Also, apparently, the "non-turbo" version of the motor is susceptible to a poor head gasket. I got the 2.5; the version that the turbo WRX STi uses, and could easily install a turbo directly from the WRX STi. (Not that I plan on it, until AFTER I've lived with the car for a few years, learning how it behaves. (Further reading, see below.)

Best to find a dirt lot with significant space and run off and test it a few times to understand the behavior of the car.

Is this not compulsory learning, for anyone who wants to later rally their car? Once I'm done school, I'd like to turn this car into a project rally-car, for the fall-winter-spring rallying season, and then an autocross/time attack car in the summer. Doing this, I imagine, will be both fun, rewarding, and relevant (to my career as a high-end mechanic.) After a few years with the car as-is (automatic, 160 hp/lb./ft, unmodified,) I'll slowly begin to change the parts that seem out-dated.

As you can see, there's not much room in my garage, barely enough to change the lights.



And, finally, if you're wondering, no, there are no plates on the car. I've driven it, but, only with a special permit. And, yes, not having plates on your car will get you pulled over. I was pulled over, but, the special permit did its job, and he let me go, without so much as a warning.

 

[TDZdave]

I hate to burst your bubble particularly since your good taste in cars, but.... a previous owner has driven that into the ocean, that has some not so visible rust starting in the grooves, give the door a couple of decent taps with your knuckles and listen for any debris falling, a 7 year old car, specially a scoob shouldn't be showing any signs of rust at all,

great choice though,

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I hate to burst your bubble particularly since your good taste in cars, but.... a previous owner has driven that into the ocean, that has some not so visible rust starting in the grooves,

How can you even see that, that well?

 

[tronrider345]

How can you even see that, that well?

He was the previous owner.

 

[TDZdave]

How can you even see that, that well?

your camera has good resolution and I'm using the lap top, its something I always look for when purchasing vehicles, its clear as day on the picture of the badge, you can see the crust line on the bonnet just on the strip edges, when you have rust there at that age of vehicle it shouldn't be there, and I can see some swelling in the guards at the back of the wheel arch,

 

[Katiegan]

your camera has good resolution and I'm using the lap top, its something I always look for when purchasing vehicles, its clear as day on the picture of the badge, you can see the crust line on the bonnet just on the strip edges, when you have rust there at that age of vehicle it shouldn't be there, and I can see some swelling in the guards at the back of the wheel arch,

Jesus, your eyes are good!

He's right though. There's some bubbling in the paint on the front just above the grille. But other than that it looks to be in good condition to me. I can't tell if the wheel arches are swelling or not because the photo isn't that good of a quality. Still, the rust would've been a lot worse if it was over here!

 

[TDZdave]

Jesus, your eyes are good!

He's right though. There's some bubbling in the paint on the front just above the grille. But other than that it looks to be in good condition to me. I can't tell if the wheel arches are swelling or not because the photo isn't that good of a quality. Still, the rust would've been a lot worse if it was over here!

but the issue is, upon my research is that Subaru claim their vehicles won't rust in any form inside 10 years, regardless of what conditions your vehicle lives in, excludes obvious things like parking in a salt lake, or resting it in the ocean, they have this device, I'm not sure what its called, but what it does is send some form of electronic pulse through the car preventing rust, my 2001 Legacy B4 has it, MR T-Bag also has it, I would expect KTs ford to have it, its a pretty common basic thing these days, or its malfunctioning,

 

[Katiegan]

but the issue is, upon my research is that Subaru claim their vehicles won't rust in any form inside 10 years, regardless of what conditions your vehicle lives in, excludes obvious things like parking in a salt lake, or resting it in the ocean, they have this device, I'm not sure what its called, but what it does is send some form of electronic pulse through the car preventing rust, my 2001 Legacy B4 has it, MR T-Bag also has it, I would expect KTs ford to have it, its a pretty common basic thing these days, or its malfunctioning,

Searching around on the webs and it looks like to me that the electro-no-rusto stuff is a load of bull. The reason why people think they work is because they don't own the car long enough for any real rust to occur. We've had Bruiser for 9 years now, so he's no spring chicken. His rear driver's side door is corroded at the bottom, and underneath is looking rather orange too. Besides, even if this Subaru does have that electro-no-rusto stuff and it does work, a small amount of bubbling near the grille isn't too much of a drama. Some could've been cause by stone chippings, other may be just general wear and tear. Not every 7 year old car can be gleaming, you know.

 

[TDZdave]

I was sceptical on it at first, but we live less then 200 meter's from the ocean, my cars are 9 and 12 years old, both have lived near the ocean, and both have no signs of rust, dads old car which would be 14 years old now that doesn't have the rust thing is riddled with rust holes, some large enough to put your hand through, specially in the boot, there is one in the roof large enough to put your arm in to get to the coin tray,

 

[Azuremen]

Exactly. However, for anyone who's ever downshifted an FF, mid-corner, and "chirped" the tires, and unbalanced the car, it should be easy to learn to control this.

No. AWD feels very, very different in a spin than FWD or RWD.

Wet road, highway on-ramp. I was in a Hyundai Accent (manual, of course,) going around the on-ramp, but, (being a Hyundai) it didn't have enough power to accelerate back up to the speed limit, post-apex. So, I went to downshift... But, the downshift wasn't great (my fault, I guess...?) and weighted the front tires. The back end swung around. I controlled the spin, and managed to turn it into a full 180 degree spin, while keeping the clutch in (to avoid going backwards in third gear) and avoiding all of the obstacles. Then, four-way blinkers, let traffic past, wait for someone to stop, and three-point-turn my way out... Done. No damage, just a good experience, that I should've had sooner.

And this sounds more like good luck than much of anything else.

Honestly, your confidence with minimal experience is alarming.

 

[Katiegan]

No. AWD feels very, very different in a spin than FWD or RWD.



And this sounds more like good luck than much of anything else.

Honestly, you're confidence with minimal experience is alarming.

I agree so much with this.

Sorry Mel, but he's right. I don't want to sound like I'm bursting your bubble here, trying to stop you from rallying the Scooby or anything, because I'm not. In fact, if I lived in Canada, I would try my best to get over to you and help you with the build, maybe even be your co-driver! But... you just sound very unprepared. Spinning in a tiny Hyundai is very different to spinning in a 2.5 estate. Just because you autocross your little Accent, doesn't mean you're going to find rallying a breeze. I know you're not saying you will find it a breeze, but I just want to warn you. You're talking like you're a skilled and experienced driver. Driving a little FWD hatchback around a course in a car park doesn't mean you're Ayrton Senna. Spinning it and recovering doesn't mean you're Sebastien Loeb. I know you're not saying you are, and I know you don't think you are, but you sound like you think you are.

Also, rallying is very, very, very expensive. Again, I don't want to sound like I'm trying to stop you from rallying by telling you all the negative bits, because I'm not. I'd suggest researching deep into getting into rally, even if you think you know everything, you probably don't, and there will be even more to learn out there. You need a team, you need mechanics, you need sponsors to pay for your rallies. Little clubman rallies probably don't need that many sponsors, but if you're looking to get professional you need to find a team that'll take you in, instead of creating your own. If you roll the car and you haven't got a sponsored team, the damage comes out of your pocket, and it won't be cheap. Whereas if you get a sponsored team, they do it and pay for it all for you.

I really hope I didn't come across as harsh or anything then... or sound like I was trying to put you off, or sound like I know it all, because I really don't. In fact, I haven't driven a car over 10mph! I just want to help.

 

[TDZdave]

your right though KT, the thing with rally is there is absolutely no run off or catch fences, when you go your gone, usually requiring a total new car on the other side, I've seen to many over confident people get seriously injured if not killed through being over confident, I lost a good friend as much as I hate to say it, because of top gear, Jeremy tested the EVO 9 against a Lambo, my friend then traded in his Maloo ute and some cash to get one, then was under the belief that setting it to gravel made him Colin McRae, first turn at 60KPH in mud, slid of into the trees never to return,

this EVO 9 was once a tarmac rally car, which had all the production go fast bits and all required safety gear, and he had raced go karts for 5 years on dirt, so it was as safe as its ever going to get in terms of the car, and he was state champion for dirt karts, so he was experienced as inexperienced can get,

and HTF did you manage to spin a Hyandai???? I have never spun a car with less the 370BHP or FF/ AWD specially the B4, and the onnly reason I spun F3 cars was because it was wet or I was helped usually,

 

[Azuremen]

and HTF did you manage to spin a Hyandai???? I have never spun a car with less the 370BHP or FF/ AWD specially the B4, and the onnly reason I spun F3 cars was because it was wet or I was helped usually,

I've seen people spin lower power cars at tracks and events simply because they were at 11/10ths. I've spun MR cars a few times on public roads in the snow, and a few times at events, despite none having more than 200hp. But those are also MR cars and that is kind of super easy to spin out.

But you pretty much have to be driving like a complete sod to spin out something like a Hyundai to the extent of doing a 180.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

But you pretty much have to be driving like a complete sod to spin out something like a Hyundai to the extent of doing a 180.

No you don't. You'll be suprised how crappy traction Hyundai Accents have. We used to have a GS, and it was pretty bad in terms of traction.

 

[Azuremen]

No you don't. You'll be suprised how crappy traction Hyundai Accents have. We used to have a GS, and it was pretty bad in terms of traction.

...

Losing traction and spinning out are very different things.

Also, tires.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

You spin out because you have no traction/grip on the road.

If I recall correctly, the Accent used 175 section tires. The stock Kumhos were crap too.

 

[nobuffalo]

You can spin a car that still has plenty of traction for a recovery, nearly every spin can be traced back to driver error some way or another.

I think my corolla had 155s, I never spun it. Less tire width doesn't always mean less traction, sometimes it's quite opposite.

 

[niky]

He spun because the weight shifted forward. That's lift-off oversteer times two. If it were just a matter of grip, the Accent has so little that the fronts would give out looooooong before the rears. (knowing is from having slid one nose first four lanes across the racetrack years back)

They aren't even particularly prone to lift-off oversteer. You'd have to downshift badly enough to lock the front tires to get it to oversteer. That would involve shifting down into a lower gear that would make the engine spin at redline and poppoing the clutch out instead of easing off.

 

[Azuremen]

You spin out because you have no traction/grip on the road.

If I recall correctly, the Accent used 175 section tires. The stock Kumhos were crap too.

You really don't understand how cars work in terms of handling if you think it is this simple of an issue to spin a car. As others have said, the fronts would have given out long before the car spun, more so when you consider that these cars are designed to understeer. Tire width has less to do with grip than compounds.