Mel got a Subaru!

[TDZdave]

I've seen people spin lower power cars at tracks and events simply because they were at 11/10ths. I've spun MR cars a few times on public roads in the snow, and a few times at events, despite none having more than 200hp. But those are also MR cars and that is kind of super easy to spin out.

But you pretty much have to be driving like a complete sod to spin out something like a Hyundai to the extent of doing a 180.

I've driven a lot of race cars at 10/10ths, never put one more then 90 degrees without assistance, or cyclone scale rainfall, and I have driven an excel in anger, got it half sideways but powered out of it with front wheel drive,
Porsche 911 turbo was the hardest car I ever drove fast, I think it was a '96 model, I was about 4 tenths of the faster more experienced guys in those cars around eastern creek, but when the weather came in hard it was mighty hard to keep on the road, but the launch it got out of the hairpins when you got the throttle right was amazing in wet weather,

 

[niky]

Kicking the rear end out on a Kia Picanto then powering out of the slide with a mighty butt-load of 65 hp can make you feel like a god.









A very small one, though. Like the God of Cheese and Crackers.

 

[TDZdave]

what makes you feel great is going into a corner 4th out of 5 karts, getting hit in the back, doing a full 360 and coming out first,

 

[niky]

See, when I get hit, I usually get beached on a kerb...

Haven't been in a kart for a long time.

 

[TDZdave]

wow I just realized it will be 12 years since my last kart race next month,

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

You spin out because you have no traction/grip on the road.

If I recall correctly, the Accent used 175 section tires. The stock Kumhos were crap too.

If you lot have nothing better than try to discuss the 🤬 handling of an accent, I'll close this thread.



That said, it's not that hard to spin a car on Kumho tires, in the rain, in the dark, in October, with about four hours of sleep.


Dave, KT, you've never driven in the winter/fall rain. Rain's bad, Dave, but, when it's freezing cold, at midnight, and you're exhausted... It's easy.

And, no, KT, I'm not saying that driving a rally car is easy. I'm saying that making a rally car out of a Subaru Impreza's pretty easy.


And, finally, considering I probably will switch the hood/bonnet out anyways, it doesn't matter, how much rust is on the current hood.

 

[Azuremen]

If you lot have nothing better than try to discuss the 🤬 handling of an accent, I'll close this thread.

It is a fairly reasonable point to consider given your attitude on the topic.

That said, it's not that hard to spin a car on Kumho tires, in the rain, in the dark, in October, with about four hours of sleep.

Considering I never spun out my Tercel despite auto-crossing and a lot of sideways action on gravel, it is certainly surprising you managed to do this on a paved ramp without excessively hoon'ing about.

Dave, KT, you've never driven in the winter/fall rain. Rain's bad, Dave, but, when it's freezing cold, at midnight, and you're exhausted... It's easy.

South Australia actually gets freezing temps. And standing water is more problematic than cold water on a maintained service. Not to mention you didn't mention any of this till people started discussing your story.

And, no, KT, I'm not saying that driving a rally car is easy. I'm saying that making a rally car out of a Subaru Impreza's pretty easy.

If by easy, you mean just as complicated as making a race spec car out of anything, then yes. You realize FWD and RWD classes exist and there is no real benefit to AWD in terms of prep? You still need to install all the safety deals, etc.

And, finally, considering I probably will switch the hood/bonnet out anyways, it doesn't matter, how much rust is on the current hood.

Doesn't change the fact that the rust is there from some abuse in the past. Or you truly this short sighted?

 

[TDZdave]

its not the hood rust I'm worried about, when you get a spare minute it would be worth checking out your upper and lower control arms and uni joints, as they are the integral parts to if you wish to turn the vehicle, those parts are designed to corrode/ break as a form of wear indicator, I'm not trying to have a dig mate, I'm concerned for your safety, a vehicle sold at auction in Australia doesn't have to meet any safety standards, hence my worry on such a gamble, but I would get it in its current state, I just don't want to see you facebook page become a dedication page,

 

[Turbo Lag]

Fully agree. Also, apparently, the "non-turbo" version of the motor is susceptible to a poor head gasket. I got the 2.5; the version that the turbo WRX STi uses, and could easily install a turbo directly from the WRX STi. (Not that I plan on it, until AFTER I've lived with the car for a few years, learning how it behaves. (Further reading, see below.)

If you have the EJ253 you can't just add a turbo on to it, it isn't just a 'non turbo' STI block. Most people don't bother trying to add turbos on to the N/A EJ motors since it's mostly useless. The most viable option would be to supercharge which would yield a significant amount of power/torque. The most reasonable though? Sell and purchase a 'pre-turbo' motor or car. Absolutely awesome car though, big fan of the 2.5 RS. 👍

 

[Katiegan]

Dave, KT, you've never driven in the winter/fall rain.

That's what I said. I said I didn't know it all because I don't drive. Yet.

And, no, KT, I'm not saying that driving a rally car is easy. I'm saying that making a rally car out of a Subaru Impreza's pretty easy.

I doubt it would be 'pretty easy'. This is something that is going to take you a long time. You need to strip out the whole interior, and I mean the whole interior. Seats, carpets, door panels, everything. Then you need to get your roll cage in. You don't have enough room in that garage to do all this, so I'm hoping someone can offer you a bigger one to rent out for the project. You need to make sure the car fits all the regulations for the rallies you want to enter, because if one tiny thing is illegal, they won't let you race. You need to make sure the car is in a stable condition, both cosmetically and mechanically. It may feel in good condition but you need to check everything to make sure it is. Otherwise, you could leave something out that could fail on you mid-rally and send you into the trees. You need to take off the roof, doors, everything until you have an empty shell. This will not be easy and you will not be able to do it on your own. You need to check for faults in everything as you're stripping the car down. It's not just a process of sticking in some racing seats, banging a turbo in the engine and putting some stickers on it. It's a lot, lot more than that.

I don't want to sound like I'm being awful to you or anything again, and I'm sure the stuff people are saying to you in this thread sounds annoying and it's like having a conversation with your parents. I'm only saying this because I think you have the wrong mindset. This is a big responsibility, and I imagine you know that, but you come across as if buying this Subaru has made you think you can do anything. Converting a stock car to a rally car is not easy. It is anything but that. We're saying all this to you because we don't want you to end up like Henri Toivenen.

I know I don't drive, and I know I haven't driven a car over 10mph, and I know I've never converted a car before, but I know that it won't be easy and I can tell when someone hasn't got the right mindset about something. You're 19, you're still a kid. This is a big thing for someone who's used to a cute little Accent.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

its not the hood rust I'm worried about, when you get a spare minute it would be worth checking out your upper and lower control arms and uni joints, as they are the integral parts to if you wish to turn the vehicle, those parts are designed to corrode/ break as a form of wear indicator, I'm not trying to have a dig mate, I'm concerned for your safety, a vehicle sold at auction in Australia doesn't have to meet any safety standards, hence my worry on such a gamble, but I would get it in its current state, I just don't want to see you facebook page become a dedication page,

My car's currently being certified, and safety-certified. It was eco-tested earlier today, and passed. Believe me, it's going well.

That's what I said. I said I didn't know it all because I don't drive. Yet.



I doubt it would be 'pretty easy'. This is something that is going to take you a long time. You need to strip out the whole interior, and I mean the whole interior. Seats, carpets, door panels, everything. Then you need to get your roll cage in. You don't have enough room in that garage to do all this, so I'm hoping someone can offer you a bigger one to rent out for the project. You need to make sure the car fits all the regulations for the rallies you want to enter, because if one tiny thing is illegal, they won't let you race. You need to make sure the car is in a stable condition, both cosmetically and mechanically. It may feel in good condition but you need to check everything to make sure it is. Otherwise, you could leave something out that could fail on you mid-rally and send you into the trees. You need to take off the roof, doors, everything until you have an empty shell. This will not be easy and you will not be able to do it on your own. You need to check for faults in everything as you're stripping the car down. It's not just a process of sticking in some racing seats, banging a turbo in the engine and putting some stickers on it. It's a lot, lot more than that.

I don't want to sound like I'm being awful to you or anything again, and I'm sure the stuff people are saying to you in this thread sounds annoying and it's like having a conversation with your parents. I'm only saying this because I think you have the wrong mindset. This is a big responsibility, and I imagine you know that, but you come across as if buying this Subaru has made you think you can do anything. Converting a stock car to a rally car is not easy. It is anything but that. We're saying all this to you because we don't want you to end up like Henri Toivenen.

I know I don't drive, and I know I haven't driven a car over 10mph, and I know I've never converted a car before, but I know that it won't be easy and I can tell when someone hasn't got the right mindset about something. You're 19, you're still a kid. This is a big thing for someone who's used to a cute little Accent.

Exactly. I want good practice building/prepping cars. What's a better car, to start with, then my own? Directly after finishing college?


And, Azuremen, please, don't get ahead of yourself. You don't know which rallies I want to be in, and, let's face it, a Corolla doesn't give you much more credit. But, if you insist on bothering me, I'll gladly close the thread, and add you to the "ignored users" list. Just stop.

 

[Azuremen]

And, Azuremen, please, don't get ahead of yourself. You don't know which rallies I want to be in, and, let's face it, a Corolla doesn't give you much more credit. But, if you insist on bothering me, I'll gladly close the thread, and add you to the "ignored users" list. Just stop.

A what? I owned a Corolla once, a few years ago. But I don't think I mentioned it in this thread at any point, so where are you getting this from?

And it doesn't matter what rally you want to do, you still have to meet safety standards. The fact you think you can "easily" turbo your engine with an STi setup is very telling about how much you actually know at the moment.

Feel free to close the thread and ignore me if you want. But that is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and walking away, given how most every in here is in agreement about both your over confidence and lack of experience.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Um... how exactly did you manage to spin an Accent on a public road??

You would not only have needed to be cornering very close to the tyres grip limit but also then needed to do some serious weight shifting (which by the sounds of it you did with the gear change) but then you'd also need to make an erratic turning movement with the wheel??

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Congrats on the Scooby-Roo. You are having a laugh though if you think it's easy to turbocharge a NA EJ Boxer.

 

[motortrend]

Congrats on the Scooby-Roo. You are having a laugh though if you think it's easy to turbocharge a NA EJ Boxer.

It's sort of like when people buy a car with 2JZ-GE and think it's a GTE and they will be making 800whp on pump gas and slaying everybody. It can be done, you can put a turbo in just about everything, but it's usually not cost-effective in cars that don't come with one or made for one.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Congrats on the Scooby-Roo. You are having a laugh though if you think it's easy to turbocharge a NA EJ Boxer.

Did I say EJ boxer?


One last thing, directly quoted from Wikipedia:

Naturally aspirated flat-four engines comprised the 1.5-liter EJ15, the 1.6-liter EJ16, the 2.0-liter EJ20, and the 2.5-liter EJ25. Turbocharged versions of the 2.0- and 2.5-liter engines were offered in the WRX and WRX STI models.

Wanna argue some more?

It's sort of like when people buy a car with 2JZ-GE and think it's a GTE and they will be making 800whp on pump gas and slaying everybody. It can be done, you can put a turbo in just about everything, but it's usually not cost-effective in cars that don't come with one or made for one.

Seems like fail.



Everyone, if all you guys want to do is nag, whine, and complain about how "little I know," why shouldn't I close the thread? Hey, niky, you still around?

 

[Doog]

Everyone, if all you guys want to do is nag, whine, and complain about how "little I know," why shouldn't I close the thread? Hey, niky, you still around?

Nobody is nagging, whining, or complaining. All they're trying to do is point your stubborn unpopular opinions in the right direction. If anything, you seem naive. But with your current attitude, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Um... how exactly did you manage to spin an Accent on a public road??

You would not only have needed to be cornering very close to the tyres grip limit but also then needed to do some serious weight shifting (which by the sounds of it you did with the gear change) but then you'd also need to make an erratic turning movement with the wheel??

A what? I owned a Corolla once, a few years ago. But I don't think I mentioned it in this thread at any point, so where are you getting this from?

And it doesn't matter what rally you want to do, you still have to meet safety standards. The fact you think you can "easily" turbo your engine with an STi setup is very telling about how much you actually know at the moment.

Feel free to close the thread and ignore me if you want. But that is the same as sticking your fingers in your ears and walking away, given how most every in here is in agreement about both your over confidence and lack of experience.

It's okay, Doog. It doesn't involve you. I just find it rude that people come here, blatantly insult/question me, and then, obviously, feel better about themselves. This is not a "let's make comments about Mr.Mel" thread. This is a thread about my car.

Don't get off-topic, don't talk about me, and don't come here to vent on me, because you're stuck on an internet forum, continually nagging me, about how high-and-mighty you are, for thinking that you know better. I don't care. If your superior intellect is so superior, go become president, guys.

 

[Crash]

Did I say EJ boxer?


One last thing, directly quoted from Wikipedia: Wanna argue some more?

Your car is stock, hence it came with an EJ boxer. However, whether it's an EJ251, EJ253 or EJ254 is questionable (there's plenty of confusion even on 2.5 RS forum and NASIOC). What is for sure though is that your car did NOT come with an EJ255 or an EJ257.

The STI used the EJ257 motor. It looks like the EJ255 shortblock is the same as the EJ257. However, the EJ255 used different internals and a different head design.

Was the EJ turbocharged from the factory and used in the STi? Yes. Was the EJ that's in your car the same as the STi one? No.

The naturally aspirated EJ motor in your car and the factory turbo cars (a la WRX and STi) use completely different internals and heads, not to mention different electrical harnesses. Is it possible to turbocharge your car? Yes, there seems to be some 2.5 RS specific turbo kits out there. However, you certainly cannot just add the STi turbo to your car, at least not without major internal, head and electrical modifications to bring the engine up to STi spec.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

...to bring the engine up to STi spec.

When did I say, directly, that I want to bring my car up to STi spec? I respect and understand you, and fully agree with what you're saying. I have the EJ255, methinks. Again, you can share some parts (most likely intake/exhaust manifolds, etc., between the STi,) but not all (the turbo models have DOHC, mine is SOHC.)


So, yes, I'm not putting the direct STi turbo in. Seriously, though, I guess there's a lot more behind it, than people know: the manifolds are the same, or close, and the air intake/filter (not turbo) are the same.

 

[niky]

Hence the Fozzie suggestion. A Fozzie XT already comes with a turbocharged motor that can be boosted to some trippy levels, and an STI suspension will fit with some massaging.

Oh well, I think the RS is a neat car.

 

[TDZdave]

When did I say, directly, that I want to bring my car up to STi spec? I respect and understand you, and fully agree with what you're saying. I have the EJ255, methinks. Again, you can share some parts (most likely intake/exhaust manifolds, etc., between the STi,) but not all (the turbo models have DOHC, mine is SOHC.)


So, yes, I'm not putting the direct STi turbo in. Seriously, though, I guess there's a lot more behind it, than people know: the manifolds are the same, or close, and the air intake/filter (not turbo) are the same.

the possible "easy way" to do this is to find out if the auction house you dealt with deals in damaged vehicles, if not research the net and find one that does, then see if you can find a '00-'07 WRX STI or or Liberty/ Legacy B4, (remember that the Liberty came in 3 varieties over this time period, 2.0 B4, 2.5 B4 and 3.0R) then you would have a surplus of part's, plus if the motor is ok and part's aren't interchangeable between the motor's you can alway's bolt the STI motor in and use the old one as a "project" to learn about how to install/ modify motor's (alway's easier when not in an engine bay) or you could do a super build up, tear it right down to the block and get everything strengthened, bigger, higher,faster, stronger, personally there is nothing better then aiming for a car to beat then doing the hard yards yourself and beating that car,

for me it was building a Holden Torana SS to beat an R34 GTR V-SPEC II direct performance import from Japan, using the value of the GTR as a budget to work in excluding import fee's/ road fee's, I got the satisfaction out of the wheel stand it did when I left the start line

 

[Kent]

Im sure you dont have the ej255, unless you think someone took a turbo dohc engine and rebuilt it as sohc n/a!?

Or maybe your car is a 265 hp turbo and you dont realize it.

You dont have the ej255 methinks.

Wait! Is your car n/a? Thought it was for some reason.

 

[aadil717]

As TDZdave has mentioned; the easiest and probably cheapest way to modify your car is just to find a scrapped Impreza/Legacy/Liberty etc.

That's exactly what my cousin did when his Legacy GT-B had bottom end failure and he had to get a new block to build on.

Anyways, speaking of modifications seems very premature - seeing as though you yourself and everyone else knows its going to be at least a year before you'll have the opportunity to be serious about it.

 

[Kent]

Personally I think its short sighted to tuned in this situation. Save the tuning money for a couple of years the buy the wrx and save yourself a huge headache. If you still wanna tune atleast you'll have a wrx to tune.
Keep in mind that the 3 or more thousand you could spend tuning would probably be enough to make the wrx purchase viable.

Also, bought my mom a 2.5i and love it so I dont blame you for your enthusiasm.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Thank you for being more respectful/on-topic guys.


Yeah, I can't figure out the engine codes. I know it's an EJ-powered 2005 2.5RS, but Wikipedia's a bit vague/uninformed on the matter. Doesn't matter, it handles well enough as-is.


But, regardless of the turbo/non-turbo dilemma, I'm doing the following:

-ordered Continental ExtremeContact DW tires (205/55R/16)
-searching for used GoPro Hero1 ($80)
-considering a "chip" [programmable] ECU upgrade
-considering finding a way to change the automatic's stupid shift-tendencies


So, ideas and opinions on those?

The chip will have 2 settings (fuel conservation and track,) hopefully, at least.

The GoPro will help me to analyse my driving, post-event, and fine-tune.

The stupid shift-tendencies tend to happen on on-ramps (switches between two gears like three or four times, because I want to stay in third, but it drops to second when I accelerate to highway speeds, murdering fuel efficiency.)

 

[niky]

While I personally advocate a chip-tune as the best power adder for your money, bar none, you have to think very carefully about what your plans for the car are.

Are you keeping the car for a long time? Are you keeping it relatively stock? Are you building this one up or will you go on to a WRX? Tranny swap in the future? Engine swap in the future? Do you want it to be class-competitive at track events?

In only one of those situations would a chip be a cost-effective option.

If it doesn't bump you out of "street" class at whatever event you will be entering, I'd go for a tranny swap. Even better, or more important for track-work, an aftermarket STI suspension and brakes. Because that will improve roadholding, minimize the car's natural tendency to plow in corners, and expand the handling envelope considerably. This makes it much more competitive and a better tool for learning. A chip will merely give you better corner exit power (typically chip tunes increase mid-range by about 10-15 hp, but top-end increases by a mere 5-7 hp) and possibly save a tiny bit of gas. Both effects will be muted by the fact that the car still has the typical Subaru auto-tragic.

And a chip-tune needs to be adjusted for every modification afterwards. A suspension works... or at least works as well as your adjustments do... And is transferable to a WRX or STI afterwards if you trade up, or sellable separately if you trade-in the car for something else entirely.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yeah, the plan, for this year, is to run sans alterations, adding parts later.


So, for 2013, I'll be in the stock classes, with nothing more than Conti summer tires.


But, for 2014 and onwards, I'm thinking of a tranny swap, suspension/braking package, lighting, mudflaps, skidplates, and bolt-ons, for rally/autocross.


However, this means adding a suspension with upwards AND downwards ride height adjustments (because no one likes rallying a car that's 2 inches lower than the snow it's driving through )

I've almost already memorized the two rulebooks I need to, and keeping in the Street-prepared autocross class, with a roll cage, fire extinguisher, and [several] point racing harness will fit both classes, regardless of modifications, as long as I choose carefully (something I'm good at.)


So, I'll rephrase above:

For 2013:

-GoPro HD
-Continental Tires (in the mail!!)


For 2014:

-Suspension
-brakes
-roll cage
-undecided bolt-on power adders
-skid plates
-mudflaps
-transmission swap (á la CanJam Motorsports)

For 2015:

-various continuations
-various things I didn't do in 2014



P.S.; it just began to snow.

 

[Kent]

Brakes and suspension first then new car. With an auto n/a and the level of enthusiasm you are showing I doubt you will be happy until you have a wrx or more. Harsh I know but heres to hoping it helps.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Brakes and suspension first then new car. With an auto n/a and the level of enthusiasm you are showing I doubt you will be happy until you have a wrx or more. Harsh I know but heres to hoping it helps.

Yeah, but, as for the turbo; nah, not really my thing. However, as I said before, because of the WRX STi cars, there are definitely parts for the Impreza; an instant help.


But, this will not be a simple "the car's not good enough, replace it" ordeal. I plan on documenting the entire time I have the car, all of the modifications, and everything that I learn along the way, as both a driver and a mechanic, as part of a career. Buying the WRX is just too easy. If I had the money, I'd actually rather have an Evo.